Stealth

[Straegen.2938]

Without doubt being able to attack out of nowhere, evade/block/teleport for 3s then disappear with few counters is a horrible mechanic for any competitive environment. It is ridiculously annoying to fight against, virtually unkillable unless the thief makes a mistake and has caused more GW2 WvW rage quitting than probably any other mechanic. There is a reason pretty much every other MMO that has stealth, cripples movement while stealthed and prevents re-stealth until out of combat.

 

IMO the fix is to remove reveal and prevent players in combat from going stealth. They would have to buff/change several skills and traits but IMO worth it. Never going to happen though.

 

Signed a guy that has run a thief for several thousands of hours in WvW.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

I've been thinking, what if you weren't allowed to attack from stealth? The one shot wouldn't be a thing. So if im running a GS mesmer one shot build, i'd have to be out of stealth to do the Mirror Blade 1 shot combo, which gives the opponent a chance to react, and not get insta deleted. For D/P thieves, when exiting stealth, you get a 3sec buff called "backstab", if you hit the back of the person in these three seconds, you get the normal BS as you would from stealth. Again, it would give people the chance to react to the mongolian damage some classes can deal out of stealth.

 

Stealth would remain very powerful for disengages/kiting/sustain, but way less offensive as it currently is.

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> Had a Deadeye inside a tower, kept stealthing before anybody could target them. We layed down MULTIPLE AoE's all over the place. Never touched them ONCE! Managed to take a few of us down before escaping outside the tower and running away without a scratch.

 

I think I'm more likely to give the Deadeye credit for that feat instead of blaming Stealth. And I'm not even sure if the Deadeye deserves that credit.

 

And yes... I'm trying to be polite.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> I've been thinking, what if you weren't allowed to attack from stealth? The one shot wouldn't be a thing. So if im running a GS mesmer one shot build, i'd have to be out of stealth to do the Mirror Blade 1 shot combo, which gives the opponent a chance to react, and not get insta deleted. For D/P thieves, when exiting stealth, you get a 3sec buff called "backstab", if you hit the back of the person in these three seconds, you get the normal BS as you would from stealth. Again, it would give people the chance to react to the mongolian damage some classes can deal out of stealth.

>

> Stealth would remain very powerful for disengages/kiting/sustain, but way less offensive as it currently is.

 

you would need the option to leave stealth on demand then. currently you can by attacking but if that is no longer possible you need an option to leave stealth.

oh and you still need reveal on something or i can stand behind you following you, when stealth runs out oneshot you and instant stealth.

[aceofbass.2163]

IMO there's too many stealth mechanic being throwned around. Too many classes have access to invisibility. I get it if rangers have some invisibility for a short time and not frequently coz thematicaly that's fitting and ofc thief is default. But engis and mesmer shouldn't have it. They should have instead a similar mechanic like > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> imo Stealth should be considered as camouflage which means you can still be seen as a slight shimmer when moving (even more so up close within 400 range) but not directly targeted and taking damage should knock you out of it.

>

> It would be hard to notice them if you are focused some one else and camouflage effects would be most useful above 900range where its nearly impossible to see the person even with the shimmer or while moving.

> Helpful when you want to sneak around from longer range and only moderately useful during combat but not over bearing like the current version of stealth on other professions.

> Thief should be the only ones that have a trait that makes camouflage true stealth making them completely unseen and allowing them to retain it when taking damage in stealth.

 

I've been thinking about this for a long time and zdragon nailed it.

 

Inb4 anyone says any class can go invi from blasting, I was referring to the innate abilities of the class.

 

 

[Nuka Cola.8520]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > I've been thinking, what if you weren't allowed to attack from stealth? The one shot wouldn't be a thing. So if im running a GS mesmer one shot build, i'd have to be out of stealth to do the Mirror Blade 1 shot combo, which gives the opponent a chance to react, and not get insta deleted. For D/P thieves, when exiting stealth, you get a 3sec buff called "backstab", if you hit the back of the person in these three seconds, you get the normal BS as you would from stealth. Again, it would give people the chance to react to the mongolian damage some classes can deal out of stealth.

> >

> > Stealth would remain very powerful for disengages/kiting/sustain, but way less offensive as it currently is.

>

> you would need the option to leave stealth on demand then. currently you can by attacking but if that is no longer possible you need an option to leave stealth.

> oh and you still need reveal on something or i can stand behind you following you, when stealth runs out oneshot you and instant stealth.

 

that would be fine, but its devs job to tweak their reworked mechanics, not ours.

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> imo Stealth should be considered as camouflage which means you can still be seen as a slight shimmer when moving (even more so up close within 400 range) but not directly targeted and taking damage should knock you out of it.

>

> It would be hard to notice them if you are focused on some one else and camouflage effects would be most useful above 900range where its nearly impossible to see the person even with the shimmer or while moving.

> Helpful when you want to sneak around from longer range and only moderately useful during combat but not over bearing like the current version of stealth on other professions.

>

> Thief should be the only ones that have a trait that makes camouflage true stealth making them completely unseen and allowing them to retain it when taking damage in stealth.

>

> Thats probably asking a bit much and im sure almost no one would like this idea but that that would have been how I implemented it in this game personally.

 

As a Thief, I'd like to be able to "camouflage" when staying motionless. I'd be perfectly happy to gain Divinity: Original Sin's ability to turn into [a rock or bush](

) ;-D

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > imo Stealth should be considered as camouflage which means you can still be seen as a slight shimmer when moving (even more so up close within 400 range) but not directly targeted and taking damage should knock you out of it.

> >

> > It would be hard to notice them if you are focused on some one else and camouflage effects would be most useful above 900range where its nearly impossible to see the person even with the shimmer or while moving.

> > Helpful when you want to sneak around from longer range and only moderately useful during combat but not over bearing like the current version of stealth on other professions.

> >

> > Thief should be the only ones that have a trait that makes camouflage true stealth making them completely unseen and allowing them to retain it when taking damage in stealth.

> >

> > Thats probably asking a bit much and im sure almost no one would like this idea but that that would have been how I implemented it in this game personally.

>

> As a Thief, I'd like to be able to "camouflage" when staying motionless. I'd be perfectly happy to gain Divinity: Original Sin's ability to turn into [a rock or bush](

) ;-D

 

Already have the latter ingame. Well, trees mostly. Of course it wont help you but its there.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > imo Stealth should be considered as camouflage which means you can still be seen as a slight shimmer when moving (even more so up close within 400 range) but not directly targeted and taking damage should knock you out of it.

> >

> > It would be hard to notice them if you are focused on some one else and camouflage effects would be most useful above 900range where its nearly impossible to see the person even with the shimmer or while moving.

> > Helpful when you want to sneak around from longer range and only moderately useful during combat but not over bearing like the current version of stealth on other professions.

> >

> > Thief should be the only ones that have a trait that makes camouflage true stealth making them completely unseen and allowing them to retain it when taking damage in stealth.

> >

> > Thats probably asking a bit much and im sure almost no one would like this idea but that that would have been how I implemented it in this game personally.

>

> As a Thief, I'd like to be able to "camouflage" when staying motionless. I'd be perfectly happy to gain Divinity: Original Sin's ability to turn into [a rock or bush](

) ;-D

 

Imo camouflage could last indefinitely even when a none thief profession uses a skill or leap combo gain it. The draw back is that you can be seen when moving, seen easily moving or not at close range, and that taking damage removes the effect from you. Its also obviously removed if you deal damage of course.

 

Vs

 

Stealth having a limited time, not dropping when taking damage, no indication at all while under the effect to where the player is.

This is also why i think thief should have a trait option to change camouflage to stealth and not simply always be stuck with stealth. but this is all under the assumption that stealth in general got a major rework.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

I think making physical contact with someone in stealth should knock them out of it. If they have more stealth available, they can reapply, otherwise they've been identified. I realize its all make believe, but have a character swing its sword, ax, what-have-you, I'd think it would recognize that it struck something and where that something was.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

> @"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:

> I think making physical contact with someone in stealth should knock them out of it. If they have more stealth available, they can reapply, otherwise they've been identified. I realize its all make believe, but have a character swing its sword, ax, what-have-you, I'd think it would recognize that it struck something and where that something was.

 

Should also include having NOTHING around you in which to hide in Stealth with. Absolutely stupid that a person can be in a 300 foot clearing and be absolutely invisible. How? And you can't tell me that if you are standing RIGHT beside me I wouldn't notice you there. Stealth is absolutely crap in this game and doesn't belong at all. I've said it before, give Thieves Dodges and Evades instead of Stealth. Thieves are supposed to be very Nimble, not Invisible.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Camouflage was an actual mechanic in GW2 it provided Invisibility but you couldn’t move otherwise t broke, it was the only form of Stealth Ranger had before they changed LB 3, Hide in Plain Sight and a Utility, and gave Ranger Stealth.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Camouflage

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"archmagus.7249" said:

> Scrapper could permastealth with sneak gyro and toss elixir s, but the thieves threw a fit and it got nerfned into the ground.

 

Same thing happened when PU got buffed and allowed mes to outstealth thieves.

Same thing happened to mirage with the evade fiasco.

Hence why I call thieves the forum qq kings.

 

That being said, both stealth and shadowstep should just get deleted from game (this coming from a mes main). Bad mechanics that let you bypass the whole good position deal.

[Solori.6025]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> Stealth is absolute BS. You can't even hit them with AoE's. Case in point. Had a Deadeye inside a tower, kept stealthing before anybody could target them. We layed down MULTIPLE AoE's all over the place. Never touched them ONCE! Managed to take a few of us down before escaping outside the tower and running away without a scratch. Stealth should NOT be a part of this game in any form of PvP mode. I can see using it in PvE, but not as an offensive measure. More of a stealth past a difficult area instance. If you want to give Thieves some kind of mechanic, give them Evades and Dodges. No stealth. I'm so sick of stealth it's not even funny.

 

,....So what really happened is, you placed AoE's in the wrong spots, missed the deadeye multiple times. Didn't support each other to kill said deadeye, and died one by one because all of you were spread out in some random corner of the tower. If any of you had supported eachother, places AoE's around you and moved as a unit, laid stealth traps or used reveal, or Even CC'd,

You most likely would have killed the deadeye.

 

>Thieves are supposed to be very Nimble, not Invisible.

 

...But that's exactly what they are supposed to do. Be nimble and invisible...that's why deadeye got more stealth and daredevil has 3 dodges. . . .

 

[oOStaticOo.9467]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > Stealth is absolute BS. You can't even hit them with AoE's. Case in point. Had a Deadeye inside a tower, kept stealthing before anybody could target them. We layed down MULTIPLE AoE's all over the place. Never touched them ONCE! Managed to take a few of us down before escaping outside the tower and running away without a scratch. Stealth should NOT be a part of this game in any form of PvP mode. I can see using it in PvE, but not as an offensive measure. More of a stealth past a difficult area instance. If you want to give Thieves some kind of mechanic, give them Evades and Dodges. No stealth. I'm so sick of stealth it's not even funny.

>

> ,....So what really happened is, you placed AoE's in the wrong spots, missed the deadeye multiple times. Didn't support each other to kill said deadeye, and died one by one because all of you were spread out in some random corner of the tower. If any of you had supported eachother, places AoE's around you and moved as a unit, laid stealth traps or used reveal, or Even CC'd,

> You most likely would have killed the deadeye.

>

> >Thieves are supposed to be very Nimble, not Invisible.

>

> ...But that's exactly what they are supposed to do. Be nimble and invisible...that's why deadeye got more stealth and daredevil has 3 dodges. . . .

>

 

Do not presume to know what we did. Because you don't. We were ALL placing AoE's in different locations so as to not overlap each other. We were bunched up together so that if he did attack one of us others were there to attack. He was in and out of Stealth so fast nobody could get a target lock on him. Stop being asinine to how overly OP Stealth is on top of all the Evades, Dodges, and High Mobility Thieves have. Invisibility, if you want to get technical, should be a Mage spell and not a Thief ability. A Thief should only have the ability to Hide in Shadows or Camouflage one's self, even then it should still be detectable if you are perceptive enough. Again I will repeat myself that Stealth SHOULD NOT be a part of this game.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > > Stealth is absolute BS. You can't even hit them with AoE's. Case in point. Had a Deadeye inside a tower, kept stealthing before anybody could target them. We layed down MULTIPLE AoE's all over the place. Never touched them ONCE! Managed to take a few of us down before escaping outside the tower and running away without a scratch. Stealth should NOT be a part of this game in any form of PvP mode. I can see using it in PvE, but not as an offensive measure. More of a stealth past a difficult area instance. If you want to give Thieves some kind of mechanic, give them Evades and Dodges. No stealth. I'm so sick of stealth it's not even funny.

> >

> > ,....So what really happened is, you placed AoE's in the wrong spots, missed the deadeye multiple times. Didn't support each other to kill said deadeye, and died one by one because all of you were spread out in some random corner of the tower. If any of you had supported eachother, places AoE's around you and moved as a unit, laid stealth traps or used reveal, or Even CC'd,

> > You most likely would have killed the deadeye.

> >

> > >Thieves are supposed to be very Nimble, not Invisible.

> >

> > ...But that's exactly what they are supposed to do. Be nimble and invisible...that's why deadeye got more stealth and daredevil has 3 dodges. . . .

> >

>

> Do not presume to know what we did. Because you don't. We were ALL placing AoE's in different locations so as to not overlap each other. We were bunched up together so that if he did attack one of us others were there to attack. He was in and out of Stealth so fast nobody could get a target lock on him. Stop being asinine to how overly OP Stealth is on top of all the Evades, Dodges, and High Mobility Thieves have. Invisibility, if you want to get technical, should be a Mage spell and not a Thief ability. A Thief should only have the ability to Hide in Shadows or Camouflage one's self, even then it should still be detectable if you are perceptive enough. Again I will repeat myself that Stealth SHOULD NOT be a part of this game.

 

“That’s like your opinion”

 

The Dev’s think otherwise since it’s still in the game and has had its use more widely spread.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > > > Stealth is absolute BS. You can't even hit them with AoE's. Case in point. Had a Deadeye inside a tower, kept stealthing before anybody could target them. We layed down MULTIPLE AoE's all over the place. Never touched them ONCE! Managed to take a few of us down before escaping outside the tower and running away without a scratch. Stealth should NOT be a part of this game in any form of PvP mode. I can see using it in PvE, but not as an offensive measure. More of a stealth past a difficult area instance. If you want to give Thieves some kind of mechanic, give them Evades and Dodges. No stealth. I'm so sick of stealth it's not even funny.

> > >

> > > ,....So what really happened is, you placed AoE's in the wrong spots, missed the deadeye multiple times. Didn't support each other to kill said deadeye, and died one by one because all of you were spread out in some random corner of the tower. If any of you had supported eachother, places AoE's around you and moved as a unit, laid stealth traps or used reveal, or Even CC'd,

> > > You most likely would have killed the deadeye.

> > >

> > > >Thieves are supposed to be very Nimble, not Invisible.

> > >

> > > ...But that's exactly what they are supposed to do. Be nimble and invisible...that's why deadeye got more stealth and daredevil has 3 dodges. . . .

> > >

> >

> > Do not presume to know what we did. Because you don't. We were ALL placing AoE's in different locations so as to not overlap each other. We were bunched up together so that if he did attack one of us others were there to attack. He was in and out of Stealth so fast nobody could get a target lock on him. Stop being asinine to how overly OP Stealth is on top of all the Evades, Dodges, and High Mobility Thieves have. Invisibility, if you want to get technical, should be a Mage spell and not a Thief ability. A Thief should only have the ability to Hide in Shadows or Camouflage one's self, even then it should still be detectable if you are perceptive enough. Again I will repeat myself that Stealth SHOULD NOT be a part of this game.

>

> “That’s like your opinion”

>

> The Dev’s think otherwise since it’s still in the game and has had its use more widely spread.

 

You are right. That is my opinion. That is why I have stated that it shouldn't be in this game. If nobody says it shouldn't then it will continue to stay. However, if you voice your opinion about something then perhaps the Devs will see it, look at it, and decide that maybe that opinion is correct and do something about it. So I am stating my opinion that Stealth should not be a part of this game. It is a broken mechanic that needs to be removed and Thieve be reworked in a more balanced fashion.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > @"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:

> > I think making physical contact with someone in stealth should knock them out of it. If they have more stealth available, they can reapply, otherwise they've been identified. I realize its all make believe, but have a character swing its sword, ax, what-have-you, I'd think it would recognize that it struck something and where that something was.

>

> Should also include having NOTHING around you in which to hide in Stealth with. Absolutely stupid that a person can be in a 300 foot clearing and be absolutely invisible. How? And you can't tell me that if you are standing RIGHT beside me I wouldn't notice you there. Stealth is absolutely crap in this game and doesn't belong at all. I've said it before, give Thieves Dodges and Evades instead of Stealth. Thieves are supposed to be very Nimble, not Invisible.

 

And people shouldn't be able to call down flaming rocks out of the air either.

 

I mean, lightening bolts,OK,

 

It's not like we have the use of 'Magic' from elder dragons or anything.

[Deagle.7531]

when you get one shoted by perma stealth deadeye, i question myself, why am i playing this game… how gw2 developers comes with these genius ideas.

gw2 developer; have you noticed ? there is no perma stealth ranged class in mmos. lets do this. try to invent wheel again. perma stealth ranged class good idea.

[Solori.6025]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > > Stealth is absolute BS. You can't even hit them with AoE's. Case in point. Had a Deadeye inside a tower, kept stealthing before anybody could target them. We layed down MULTIPLE AoE's all over the place. Never touched them ONCE! Managed to take a few of us down before escaping outside the tower and running away without a scratch. Stealth should NOT be a part of this game in any form of PvP mode. I can see using it in PvE, but not as an offensive measure. More of a stealth past a difficult area instance. If you want to give Thieves some kind of mechanic, give them Evades and Dodges. No stealth. I'm so sick of stealth it's not even funny.

> >

> > ,....So what really happened is, you placed AoE's in the wrong spots, missed the deadeye multiple times. Didn't support each other to kill said deadeye, and died one by one because all of you were spread out in some random corner of the tower. If any of you had supported eachother, places AoE's around you and moved as a unit, laid stealth traps or used reveal, or Even CC'd,

> > You most likely would have killed the deadeye.

> >

> > >Thieves are supposed to be very Nimble, not Invisible.

> >

> > ...But that's exactly what they are supposed to do. Be nimble and invisible...that's why deadeye got more stealth and daredevil has 3 dodges. . . .

> >

>

> Do not presume to know what we did. Because you don't. We were ALL placing AoE's in different locations so as to not overlap each other. We were bunched up together so that if he did attack one of us others were there to attack. He was in and out of Stealth so fast nobody could get a target lock on him.

 

And some how he was able to pick all of you off one at a time?

Sorry but this sounds like it's either a lie or all of you are wearing green gear if he was able to pick off a group of you one at a time in a tower with a group of you moving . Did all of you forget what a PBAoE was? Were all of you elementalist? I'm trying to figure out how one person is able to kill a group of people unphased and apparently unthreatened

> Stop being asinine to how overly OP Stealth is on top of all the Evades, Dodges, and High Mobility Thieves have.

about 5 years too late with this argument. I would ask you to put everything you just listed in one build, but I already know either you will fail or produce something flawed and unworkable.

Now if you had brought the case- Thieves stealth too much- I might be inclined to agree with you, but that isn't what you are saying repeatedly is it?

>Invisibility, if you want to get technical, should be a Mage spell and not a Thief ability. A Thief should only have the ability to Hide in Shadows or Camouflage one's self, even then it should still be detectable if you are perceptive enough. Again I will repeat myself that Stealth SHOULD NOT be a part of this game.

 

Invisibility (I'm not sure how this is technical but ok) has been working as such since pre-launch. It's a thief ability, it's a ranger ability, it's an engineer ability, it's a mesmer ability, and with the proper runes it is also a guardian ability. It is not limited to just thief, and from your post you have an issue with a core mechanic that has been in this game since launch, something I thought people were able to handle by now but surprise, surprise here we are.

Stealth is a part of this game. You deal with or you find a new game, this is a F2P mmo with B2P elements.

They have a lot of games on the market that have stealth that works sort of like how you want it. Do you need a list of those games?

 

[Turk.5460]

> @"Straegen.2938" said:

> Without doubt being able to attack out of nowhere, evade/block/teleport for 3s then disappear with few counters is a horrible mechanic for any competitive environment. It is ridiculously annoying to fight against, virtually unkillable unless the thief makes a mistake and has caused more GW2 WvW rage quitting than probably any other mechanic. There is a reason pretty much every other MMO that has stealth, cripples movement while stealthed and prevents re-stealth until out of combat.

>

> IMO the fix is to remove reveal and prevent players in combat from going stealth. They would have to buff/change several skills and traits but IMO worth it. Never going to happen though.

>

> Signed a guy that has run a thief for several thousands of hours in WvW.

 

Are you ready to see Thieves with the same base HP as Warriors, new traits to replace SA stealth-related ones that will undoubtedly aggravate you? How about the blocks or *more evades* that Thieves would receive to compensate for losing in-combat stealth? Because as it stands, if you were to remove in-combat stealth and not provide defensive compensation then all Thieves except S/D would be nowhere close to a threat or challenge to *anyone*.

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> We were ALL placing AoE's in different locations so as to not overlap each other. We were bunched up together so that if he did attack one of us others were there to attack. He was in and out of Stealth so fast nobody could get a target lock on him.

 

If the Thief responsible is reading this, PLEASE take me as your apprentice! :-D

 

Maybe it wasn't a Thief at all? Perhaps Ant-Man plays GW2? He didn't go invisible... he just got really, really tiny. That would explain why Reveal had no power over him for such an intense fight! :-D

[BlueMelody.6398]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Straegen.2938" said:

> > Without doubt being able to attack out of nowhere, evade/block/teleport for 3s then disappear with few counters is a horrible mechanic for any competitive environment. It is ridiculously annoying to fight against, virtually unkillable unless the thief makes a mistake and has caused more GW2 WvW rage quitting than probably any other mechanic. There is a reason pretty much every other MMO that has stealth, cripples movement while stealthed and prevents re-stealth until out of combat.

> >

> > IMO the fix is to remove reveal and prevent players in combat from going stealth. They would have to buff/change several skills and traits but IMO worth it. Never going to happen though.

> >

> > Signed a guy that has run a thief for several thousands of hours in WvW.

>

> Are you ready to see Thieves with the same base HP as Warriors, new traits to replace SA stealth-related ones that will undoubtedly aggravate you? How about the blocks or *more evades* that Thieves would receive to compensate for losing in-combat stealth? Because as it stands, if you were to remove in-combat stealth and not provide defensive compensation then all Thieves except S/D would be nowhere close to a threat or challenge to *anyone*.

 

Yes, because clearly every thief out there is running stealth-based builds, since no build without stealth is even remotely viable.

 

Thieves do not need stealth to be viable, they have evades and movement skills galore and many thieves manage without using stealth.

 

[Solori.6025]

> @"BlueMelody.6398" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > @"Straegen.2938" said:

> > > Without doubt being able to attack out of nowhere, evade/block/teleport for 3s then disappear with few counters is a horrible mechanic for any competitive environment. It is ridiculously annoying to fight against, virtually unkillable unless the thief makes a mistake and has caused more GW2 WvW rage quitting than probably any other mechanic. There is a reason pretty much every other MMO that has stealth, cripples movement while stealthed and prevents re-stealth until out of combat.

> > >

> > > IMO the fix is to remove reveal and prevent players in combat from going stealth. They would have to buff/change several skills and traits but IMO worth it. Never going to happen though.

> > >

> > > Signed a guy that has run a thief for several thousands of hours in WvW.

> >

> > Are you ready to see Thieves with the same base HP as Warriors, new traits to replace SA stealth-related ones that will undoubtedly aggravate you? How about the blocks or *more evades* that Thieves would receive to compensate for losing in-combat stealth? Because as it stands, if you were to remove in-combat stealth and not provide defensive compensation then all Thieves except S/D would be nowhere close to a threat or challenge to *anyone*.

>

> Yes, because clearly every thief out there is running stealth-based builds, since no build without stealth is even remotely viable.

>

> Thieves do not need stealth to be viable, they have evades and movement skills galore and many thieves manage without using stealth.

>

 

Besides Sword/Dagger builds what other thief builds are viable with out stealthing AT ALL.

[Arlette.9684]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"BlueMelody.6398" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > @"Straegen.2938" said:

> > > > Without doubt being able to attack out of nowhere, evade/block/teleport for 3s then disappear with few counters is a horrible mechanic for any competitive environment. It is ridiculously annoying to fight against, virtually unkillable unless the thief makes a mistake and has caused more GW2 WvW rage quitting than probably any other mechanic. There is a reason pretty much every other MMO that has stealth, cripples movement while stealthed and prevents re-stealth until out of combat.

> > > >

> > > > IMO the fix is to remove reveal and prevent players in combat from going stealth. They would have to buff/change several skills and traits but IMO worth it. Never going to happen though.

> > > >

> > > > Signed a guy that has run a thief for several thousands of hours in WvW.

> > >

> > > Are you ready to see Thieves with the same base HP as Warriors, new traits to replace SA stealth-related ones that will undoubtedly aggravate you? How about the blocks or *more evades* that Thieves would receive to compensate for losing in-combat stealth? Because as it stands, if you were to remove in-combat stealth and not provide defensive compensation then all Thieves except S/D would be nowhere close to a threat or challenge to *anyone*.

> >

> > Yes, because clearly every thief out there is running stealth-based builds, since no build without stealth is even remotely viable.

> >

> > Thieves do not need stealth to be viable, they have evades and movement skills galore and many thieves manage without using stealth.

> >

>

> Besides Sword/Dagger builds what other thief builds are viable with out stealthing AT ALL.

 

There's a Cowboy DE spec that doesn't use stealth.