Feanor.2358 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > @"LadyKitty.6120" said: > > > > > Nice, all boons, all class-specifics, not starting from 100% and using 1M hp golem. How about you do this on realistic settings next time? > > > > > > > > > > There's 2 good reasons to reaper: survivability and the pug carry ability with necro resses as BM/Spite/Reaper, which is totally underrated ('cause you don't see any in pro raiders' squads since they rarely go down unlike.random pugs). > > > > > > > > If you would have watched the entire video, I did that already on the 3rd rotation listed as "realistic rotation while maintaining life force" and the 4th rotation. There are 4x different rotations in this video, which are situations that Power Reapers wind up in: > > > > * Rotation #1 - Blowing life force bar on shroud #1 dhuum fire spam > > > > * Rotation #2 - Dhuum spamming into Gravediffer spam > > > > * Rotation #3 - Realistic rotation where the player is maintaining life force with a more complex rotation, and the golem is set to medium health > > > > * Rotation #4 - No raid buffs, no condis on golem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotation 3 is what people try to compare to. If we want to do testing then we need to do with standardized conditions, this means 4m hp golem and same buffs and condis on the golem. I can see AP on there and probably empowerment? Looks like some things got clipped off. The result is 28k dps. That is absolutely bottom of the dps totem pole. > > > > > > However I do not disagree entirely with your post. Yes this is completely viable dps. Yes it is incredibly simple to pick up to play while offering great defense and thus good for newbies. However no 28k is a bit too low. You want the spec to be around 31k-33k to be considered on the same level. So around 15% more damage give and take. > > > > Then remember Weaver barely does 30k with much more complex gameplay, zero utility and being 3x more fragile. > > There are weaver builds that do more damage and have more utility but you don't recognise them because it's not the build you want to play or "why play this when I can play another class". > > But I mean nice try to push your "woe is me weaver is the worst" agenda. Oh right, you can play sword in 130 range while still being 3x more fragile, still have zero utility, still have complex gameplay and get 10% more damage in theory. Totally sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 why is squishyness even a thing you're considering given that you have a chrono spamming aegis and prot on you and 1-2 healers? Adding to it, what utility does a reaper even offer? Power rezing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naustis.8510 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > @"LadyKitty.6120" said: > > > > > > Nice, all boons, all class-specifics, not starting from 100% and using 1M hp golem. How about you do this on realistic settings next time? > > > > > > > > > > > > There's 2 good reasons to reaper: survivability and the pug carry ability with necro resses as BM/Spite/Reaper, which is totally underrated ('cause you don't see any in pro raiders' squads since they rarely go down unlike.random pugs). > > > > > > > > > > If you would have watched the entire video, I did that already on the 3rd rotation listed as "realistic rotation while maintaining life force" and the 4th rotation. There are 4x different rotations in this video, which are situations that Power Reapers wind up in: > > > > > * Rotation #1 - Blowing life force bar on shroud #1 dhuum fire spam > > > > > * Rotation #2 - Dhuum spamming into Gravediffer spam > > > > > * Rotation #3 - Realistic rotation where the player is maintaining life force with a more complex rotation, and the golem is set to medium health > > > > > * Rotation #4 - No raid buffs, no condis on golem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotation 3 is what people try to compare to. If we want to do testing then we need to do with standardized conditions, this means 4m hp golem and same buffs and condis on the golem. I can see AP on there and probably empowerment? Looks like some things got clipped off. The result is 28k dps. That is absolutely bottom of the dps totem pole. > > > > > > > > However I do not disagree entirely with your post. Yes this is completely viable dps. Yes it is incredibly simple to pick up to play while offering great defense and thus good for newbies. However no 28k is a bit too low. You want the spec to be around 31k-33k to be considered on the same level. So around 15% more damage give and take. > > > > > > Then remember Weaver barely does 30k with much more complex gameplay, zero utility and being 3x more fragile. > > > > There are weaver builds that do more damage and have more utility but you don't recognise them because it's not the build you want to play or "why play this when I can play another class". > > > > But I mean nice try to push your "woe is me weaver is the worst" agenda. > > Oh right, you can play sword in 130 range while still being 3x more fragile, still have zero utility, still have complex gameplay and get 10% more damage in theory. Totally sold. Sword weaver is at 33k~ that is like 20% more dmg than necro. Sword weaver is not squishy if player properly. Also you never want to stand 'in range' as range in fractals because that makes it harder to heal for healer, and you're not getting most buffs. I was possitive to play Necro in Fractals. It was nice in t1-t3. But then I started doing higher fractals, where the 'sustain' from the shroud wasn't enough, and it even started to holding me back, as healer simply couldn't heal me while I was in it. I started playing other classes as well, and the difference between Necro and other classes just becomes bigger and bigger in my eyes. Necro don't have the best sustain. It is one of the worst in Fractals actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Naustis.8510" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > @"LadyKitty.6120" said: > > > > > > > Nice, all boons, all class-specifics, not starting from 100% and using 1M hp golem. How about you do this on realistic settings next time? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's 2 good reasons to reaper: survivability and the pug carry ability with necro resses as BM/Spite/Reaper, which is totally underrated ('cause you don't see any in pro raiders' squads since they rarely go down unlike.random pugs). > > > > > > > > > > > > If you would have watched the entire video, I did that already on the 3rd rotation listed as "realistic rotation while maintaining life force" and the 4th rotation. There are 4x different rotations in this video, which are situations that Power Reapers wind up in: > > > > > > * Rotation #1 - Blowing life force bar on shroud #1 dhuum fire spam > > > > > > * Rotation #2 - Dhuum spamming into Gravediffer spam > > > > > > * Rotation #3 - Realistic rotation where the player is maintaining life force with a more complex rotation, and the golem is set to medium health > > > > > > * Rotation #4 - No raid buffs, no condis on golem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotation 3 is what people try to compare to. If we want to do testing then we need to do with standardized conditions, this means 4m hp golem and same buffs and condis on the golem. I can see AP on there and probably empowerment? Looks like some things got clipped off. The result is 28k dps. That is absolutely bottom of the dps totem pole. > > > > > > > > > > However I do not disagree entirely with your post. Yes this is completely viable dps. Yes it is incredibly simple to pick up to play while offering great defense and thus good for newbies. However no 28k is a bit too low. You want the spec to be around 31k-33k to be considered on the same level. So around 15% more damage give and take. > > > > > > > > Then remember Weaver barely does 30k with much more complex gameplay, zero utility and being 3x more fragile. > > > > > > There are weaver builds that do more damage and have more utility but you don't recognise them because it's not the build you want to play or "why play this when I can play another class". > > > > > > But I mean nice try to push your "woe is me weaver is the worst" agenda. > > > > Oh right, you can play sword in 130 range while still being 3x more fragile, still have zero utility, still have complex gameplay and get 10% more damage in theory. Totally sold. > > Sword weaver is at 33k~ that is like 20% more dmg than necro. Sword weaver is not squishy if player properly. Also you never want to stand 'in range' as range in fractals because that makes it harder to heal for healer, and you're not getting most buffs. sw/dg also has a handful of skills that CC so BB damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Naustis.8510" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > @"LadyKitty.6120" said: > > > > > > > Nice, all boons, all class-specifics, not starting from 100% and using 1M hp golem. How about you do this on realistic settings next time? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's 2 good reasons to reaper: survivability and the pug carry ability with necro resses as BM/Spite/Reaper, which is totally underrated ('cause you don't see any in pro raiders' squads since they rarely go down unlike.random pugs). > > > > > > > > > > > > If you would have watched the entire video, I did that already on the 3rd rotation listed as "realistic rotation while maintaining life force" and the 4th rotation. There are 4x different rotations in this video, which are situations that Power Reapers wind up in: > > > > > > * Rotation #1 - Blowing life force bar on shroud #1 dhuum fire spam > > > > > > * Rotation #2 - Dhuum spamming into Gravediffer spam > > > > > > * Rotation #3 - Realistic rotation where the player is maintaining life force with a more complex rotation, and the golem is set to medium health > > > > > > * Rotation #4 - No raid buffs, no condis on golem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotation 3 is what people try to compare to. If we want to do testing then we need to do with standardized conditions, this means 4m hp golem and same buffs and condis on the golem. I can see AP on there and probably empowerment? Looks like some things got clipped off. The result is 28k dps. That is absolutely bottom of the dps totem pole. > > > > > > > > > > However I do not disagree entirely with your post. Yes this is completely viable dps. Yes it is incredibly simple to pick up to play while offering great defense and thus good for newbies. However no 28k is a bit too low. You want the spec to be around 31k-33k to be considered on the same level. So around 15% more damage give and take. > > > > > > > > Then remember Weaver barely does 30k with much more complex gameplay, zero utility and being 3x more fragile. > > > > > > There are weaver builds that do more damage and have more utility but you don't recognise them because it's not the build you want to play or "why play this when I can play another class". > > > > > > But I mean nice try to push your "woe is me weaver is the worst" agenda. > > > > Oh right, you can play sword in 130 range while still being 3x more fragile, still have zero utility, still have complex gameplay and get 10% more damage in theory. Totally sold. > > Sword weaver is at 33k~ that is like 20% more dmg than necro. Sword weaver is not squishy if player properly. Also you never want to stand 'in range' as range in fractals because that makes it harder to heal for healer, and you're not getting most buffs. > > I was possitive to play Necro in Fractals. It was nice in t1-t3. But then I started doing higher fractals, where the 'sustain' from the shroud wasn't enough, and it even started to holding me back, as healer simply couldn't heal me while I was in it. I started playing other classes as well, and the difference between Necro and other classes just becomes bigger and bigger in my eyes. Necro don't have the best sustain. It is one of the worst in Fractals actually. You're not supposed to camp shroud like that. You're supposed to dip in, land the larger DPS, and leave before the LF gets bellow 50%. Then go rotate through weapon skills, get your LF back, and go into shroud again. <- Mainly because of the trait that grants +5% damage if LF is above 50%. But the point being is that you shouldn't be face tanking hits in shroud and bottoming out LF. Would you try to face tank hits on a Weaver or a Thief? No? Then why do it on a Necromancer? Sure it has better sustain than other classes, but don't allow that presumption to create sloppy play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naustis.8510 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Naustis.8510" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > @"LadyKitty.6120" said: > > > > > > > > Nice, all boons, all class-specifics, not starting from 100% and using 1M hp golem. How about you do this on realistic settings next time? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's 2 good reasons to reaper: survivability and the pug carry ability with necro resses as BM/Spite/Reaper, which is totally underrated ('cause you don't see any in pro raiders' squads since they rarely go down unlike.random pugs). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you would have watched the entire video, I did that already on the 3rd rotation listed as "realistic rotation while maintaining life force" and the 4th rotation. There are 4x different rotations in this video, which are situations that Power Reapers wind up in: > > > > > > > * Rotation #1 - Blowing life force bar on shroud #1 dhuum fire spam > > > > > > > * Rotation #2 - Dhuum spamming into Gravediffer spam > > > > > > > * Rotation #3 - Realistic rotation where the player is maintaining life force with a more complex rotation, and the golem is set to medium health > > > > > > > * Rotation #4 - No raid buffs, no condis on golem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotation 3 is what people try to compare to. If we want to do testing then we need to do with standardized conditions, this means 4m hp golem and same buffs and condis on the golem. I can see AP on there and probably empowerment? Looks like some things got clipped off. The result is 28k dps. That is absolutely bottom of the dps totem pole. > > > > > > > > > > > > However I do not disagree entirely with your post. Yes this is completely viable dps. Yes it is incredibly simple to pick up to play while offering great defense and thus good for newbies. However no 28k is a bit too low. You want the spec to be around 31k-33k to be considered on the same level. So around 15% more damage give and take. > > > > > > > > > > Then remember Weaver barely does 30k with much more complex gameplay, zero utility and being 3x more fragile. > > > > > > > > There are weaver builds that do more damage and have more utility but you don't recognise them because it's not the build you want to play or "why play this when I can play another class". > > > > > > > > But I mean nice try to push your "woe is me weaver is the worst" agenda. > > > > > > Oh right, you can play sword in 130 range while still being 3x more fragile, still have zero utility, still have complex gameplay and get 10% more damage in theory. Totally sold. > > > > Sword weaver is at 33k~ that is like 20% more dmg than necro. Sword weaver is not squishy if player properly. Also you never want to stand 'in range' as range in fractals because that makes it harder to heal for healer, and you're not getting most buffs. > > > > I was possitive to play Necro in Fractals. It was nice in t1-t3. But then I started doing higher fractals, where the 'sustain' from the shroud wasn't enough, and it even started to holding me back, as healer simply couldn't heal me while I was in it. I started playing other classes as well, and the difference between Necro and other classes just becomes bigger and bigger in my eyes. Necro don't have the best sustain. It is one of the worst in Fractals actually. > > You're not supposed to camp shroud like that. You're supposed to dip in, land the larger DPS, and leave before the LF gets bellow 50%. Then go rotate through weapon skills, get your LF back, and go into shroud again. <- Mainly because of the trait that grants +5% damage if LF is above 50%. > > But the point being is that you shouldn't be face tanking hits in shroud and bottoming out LF. Would you try to face tank hits on a Weaver or a Thief? No? Then why do it on a Necromancer? Sure it has better sustain than other classes, but don't allow that presumption to create sloppy play. > > But if you take shroud away from Necro (because u use it only to dps), then he has nothing left to sustain himself. So one of your main points to take it due to sustain is not true. Also you're not running the Soul Reaper on Necro in fractals. You are getting very little dps for that, and you have to give up blood magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanity Obscure.6054 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Alchimist.4738" said: > Yes, I've yet to witness a good Power Reaper going beyond 10k in PUGs. I regularly do about 8-13k realistic DPS, depending on boons and traits recieved and DPS I forfeit from rezzing and manuvering on certain boss mechanics in fractals. The common talk of 25k+ dps is something I have only seen in raids, and in all my time doing t4 fractals I see good DPS classes usually only get around 11-15k and still down and rely on Necros and Druids to rez them. 16-17k is a very rare sight and I've only seen it on Mesmer and Guard. Reaper shroud also helps brace damage in a bad situation where multiple people down and I find myself rezzing 3 in succession, which is quite common in PUGs. I find myself rezzing Druids as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Sanity Obscure.6054" said: > > @"Alchimist.4738" said: > > Yes, I've yet to witness a good Power Reaper going beyond 10k in PUGs. > > I regularly do about 8-13k realistic DPS, depending on boons and traits recieved and DPS I forfeit from rezzing and manuvering on certain boss mechanics in fractals. > > The common talk of 25k+ dps is something I have only seen in raids, and in all my time doing t4 fractals I see good DPS classes usually only get around 11-15k and still down and rely on Necros and Druids to rez them. 16-17k is a very rare sight and I've only seen it on Mesmer and Guard. > > Reaper shroud also helps brace damage in a bad situation where multiple people down and I find myself rezzing 3 in succession, which is quite common in PUGs. I find myself rezzing Druids as well. The idea of benchmarks has been severely warped. People think that you should be doing that much damage or you're playing it wrong. They miss out the fact that the benchmark is a perfect rotation, without taking into account any raid mechanics and hitting an inanimate stationary golem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanity Obscure.6054 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Lahmia.2193" said: > The idea of benchmarks has been severely warped. People think that you should be doing that much damage or you're playing it wrong. They miss out the fact that the benchmark is a perfect rotation, without taking into account any raid mechanics and hitting an inanimate stationary golem. For sure, and also the amount of variance in regards to traits and boons when looking at a 5 man fractal or a 10 man raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 > @"Naustis.8510" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"Naustis.8510" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Warscythes.9307" said: > > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > > @"LadyKitty.6120" said: > > > > > > > > > Nice, all boons, all class-specifics, not starting from 100% and using 1M hp golem. How about you do this on realistic settings next time? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's 2 good reasons to reaper: survivability and the pug carry ability with necro resses as BM/Spite/Reaper, which is totally underrated ('cause you don't see any in pro raiders' squads since they rarely go down unlike.random pugs). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you would have watched the entire video, I did that already on the 3rd rotation listed as "realistic rotation while maintaining life force" and the 4th rotation. There are 4x different rotations in this video, which are situations that Power Reapers wind up in: > > > > > > > > * Rotation #1 - Blowing life force bar on shroud #1 dhuum fire spam > > > > > > > > * Rotation #2 - Dhuum spamming into Gravediffer spam > > > > > > > > * Rotation #3 - Realistic rotation where the player is maintaining life force with a more complex rotation, and the golem is set to medium health > > > > > > > > * Rotation #4 - No raid buffs, no condis on golem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rotation 3 is what people try to compare to. If we want to do testing then we need to do with standardized conditions, this means 4m hp golem and same buffs and condis on the golem. I can see AP on there and probably empowerment? Looks like some things got clipped off. The result is 28k dps. That is absolutely bottom of the dps totem pole. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However I do not disagree entirely with your post. Yes this is completely viable dps. Yes it is incredibly simple to pick up to play while offering great defense and thus good for newbies. However no 28k is a bit too low. You want the spec to be around 31k-33k to be considered on the same level. So around 15% more damage give and take. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then remember Weaver barely does 30k with much more complex gameplay, zero utility and being 3x more fragile. > > > > > > > > > > There are weaver builds that do more damage and have more utility but you don't recognise them because it's not the build you want to play or "why play this when I can play another class". > > > > > > > > > > But I mean nice try to push your "woe is me weaver is the worst" agenda. > > > > > > > > Oh right, you can play sword in 130 range while still being 3x more fragile, still have zero utility, still have complex gameplay and get 10% more damage in theory. Totally sold. > > > > > > Sword weaver is at 33k~ that is like 20% more dmg than necro. Sword weaver is not squishy if player properly. Also you never want to stand 'in range' as range in fractals because that makes it harder to heal for healer, and you're not getting most buffs. > > > > > > I was possitive to play Necro in Fractals. It was nice in t1-t3. But then I started doing higher fractals, where the 'sustain' from the shroud wasn't enough, and it even started to holding me back, as healer simply couldn't heal me while I was in it. I started playing other classes as well, and the difference between Necro and other classes just becomes bigger and bigger in my eyes. Necro don't have the best sustain. It is one of the worst in Fractals actually. > > > > You're not supposed to camp shroud like that. You're supposed to dip in, land the larger DPS, and leave before the LF gets bellow 50%. Then go rotate through weapon skills, get your LF back, and go into shroud again. <- Mainly because of the trait that grants +5% damage if LF is above 50%. > > > > But the point being is that you shouldn't be face tanking hits in shroud and bottoming out LF. Would you try to face tank hits on a Weaver or a Thief? No? Then why do it on a Necromancer? Sure it has better sustain than other classes, but don't allow that presumption to create sloppy play. > > > > > > But if you take shroud away from Necro (because u use it only to dps), then he has nothing left to sustain himself. So one of your main points to take it due to sustain is not true. Also you're not running the Soul Reaper on Necro in fractals. You are getting very little dps for that, and you have to give up blood magic. Nothing left to sustain himself? * He has the highest health pool * He has gobs of life steal * He has minions * He is a chill machine that is slowing the actions of the creature around him. This isn't even to mention to blinding pools, fears and other CC pulls/warhorn dazes/elite AoE stuns that the Reaper has to just stop the actions of the creatures around him. * When he goes into DS to DPS, the DS is indeed shielding his life bar from taking damage. If you can't figure this out, I don't know how else to explain it. * I always run the Soul Reaping variant because it deals a lot more damage. <- Soul Reaping is how to near 30k benchmarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublimatio.6981 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > * I always run the Soul Reaping variant because it deals a lot more damage. <- Soul Reaping is how to near 30k benchmarks. this is a lie. blood magic deals more damage. if you're getting 28k dps or more with soul reaping and realistic setup, it's not truly realistic and you messed some setting up. feel free to prove me wrong with combat log and a video (with trait window, sigils and consumables shown) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > Nothing left to sustain himself? > * He has the highest health pool it's hp is tied with war, who does dps, utility, and sustain better than us > * He has gobs of life steal life steal on necro is nothing when compared to thief and rev. Only thing better about it is that it shares it with 5 ppl who will barely notice it due to the druid's regen ticks and healing. > * He has minions You're not suggesting a full minion utility bar right? Well of blood is better than blood fiend since it can power rez, and well of corruption has been shown to do better dps than shadow fiend. Only 1/2 decent minion is golem for the cc, and even then it's prone to being stopped by a slight incline or a pebble on the road. > * He is a chill machine that is slowing the actions of the creature around him. This isn't even to mention to blinding pools, fears and other CC pulls/warhorn dazes/elite >AoE stuns that the Reaper has to just stop the actions of the creatures around him. All of that blind/chill is useless vs bosses since they have a defiance bar (granted it will still chip away at the defiance), and even more so vs trash mobs when you can just melt them all with eles, dd, dh, fb, war, or soul beasts (who can all do everything you mentioned better), and mesmer's pull is better than ours since it isn't stopped by random pebble in the way. > * When he goes into DS to DPS, the DS is indeed shielding his life bar from taking damage. If you can't figure this out, I don't know how else to explain it. And you're locked out of all your utilities, can't get healed, and rapidly drain your lf, even more so if you're getting hit. And, unless you're surrounded by trash mobs, you have to refill constantly by attacking with specific skills leaving you vulnerable in between. > * I always run the Soul Reaping variant because it deals a lot more damage. <- Soul Reaping is how to near 30k benchmarks. what's your setup? on both you and the golem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"Sublimatio.6981" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > * I always run the Soul Reaping variant because it deals a lot more damage. <- Soul Reaping is how to near 30k benchmarks. > this is a lie. blood magic deals more damage. if you're getting 28k dps or more with soul reaping and realistic setup, it's not truly realistic and you messed some setting up. feel free to prove me wrong with combat log and a video (with trait window, sigils and consumables shown) > > I already did this and then removed the video because I wasn't using the snowcrow standard of boons/condis. I ran other test afterwards while using the benchmark standards but chose not to take the time to edit/upload/post the video because the results were unremarkable and really no different than anything else that has been posted before it. I did change the OP post to detail the 2nd test however. But the bigger reason why I chose to not take my time to provide any further data is because of overly aggressive and unreasonable responses from the community. Nothing can be right or real or good enough, unless it is posted by a meta website or a popular commercial streamer, and even when those sources are slightly inaccurate or sometimes flat out wrong, they're still right. It's the "Coca-Cola effect", where so much word of mouth & commercialism has made everyone believe that it is the king of all sodas, regardless of the fact that so many other better sodas exists or at the least, sodas that match it's quality in a different way. I actually enjoy providing data & feedback for gaming communities but it isn't worth my time when it catches nothing but negative response. If you want the data & results of my 2nd test, go spend the gold to do it yourself. PS. 27k and 28k Soul Reaping benchmarks are achieved easily with Soul Reaping Dhuumfire spam rotations while using snowcrow standard benchmark tests. Spitting out 6 to 8 stacks of burning with 25 might is quite a bit more damage than the leeching from Blood, come to find out. I was surprised myself. @"Sephylon.4938" Thanks for the response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > Nothing left to sustain himself? > * He has the highest health pool > * He has gobs of life steal > * He has minions > * He is a chill machine that is slowing the actions of the creature around him. This isn't even to mention to blinding pools, fears and other CC pulls/warhorn dazes/elite AoE stuns that the Reaper has to just stop the actions of the creatures around him. > * When he goes into DS to DPS, the DS is indeed shielding his life bar from taking damage. If you can't figure this out, I don't know how else to explain it. > * I always run the Soul Reaping variant because it deals a lot more damage. <- Soul Reaping is how to near 30k benchmarks. > I love how you crush all this theoretical survivability and support under the: "I always run soul reaping variant because it deal a lot more damage" Trading all this so called survivability and utility for roughly 1k extra dps... It's not worth it. It would have some value if you ended up with competitive dps, however even in the best case scenarii you'll still be 20% behind other professions in dps and since you've already sacrificed your survivability and utility, that leave you as just an underperforming dps that need to be caried by it's teammates. It's not a bad thing to try and promote the reaper, however, there is no point in turning a blind eye on the fact that in regard of utility and dps he still lack competitivity. And saying that he got survivability on it's side isn't going to realistically help him either since, in fact, he doesn't have more survivability than other professions in a group setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"Naustis.8510" said: > Sword weaver is not squishy if player properly. And also doesn't have 33k dps in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 doubtful that hugging your healer and boon bot along with not being infront of the boss will result in any dps loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Heh. Fine. See for yourselves how popular sword weaver is going to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TanksK.4795 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Pros - almost good as weaver now yayyy ;) Cons - worse than every spec in the game. ( except meme spec..tempest scrapper whatever ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublimatio.6981 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Sublimatio.6981" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > * I always run the Soul Reaping variant because it deals a lot more damage. <- Soul Reaping is how to near 30k benchmarks. > > this is a lie. blood magic deals more damage. if you're getting 28k dps or more with soul reaping and realistic setup, it's not truly realistic and you messed some setting up. feel free to prove me wrong with combat log and a video (with trait window, sigils and consumables shown) > > > > > > I already did this and then removed the video because I wasn't using the snowcrow standard of boons/condis. I ran other test afterwards while using the benchmark standards but chose not to take the time to edit/upload/post the video because the results were unremarkable and really no different than anything else that has been posted before it. so not 30k. > I did change the OP post to detail the 2nd test however. But the bigger reason why I chose to not take my time to provide any further data is because of overly aggressive and unreasonable responses from the community. so you won't prove that 30k because you know people are going to point out your inaccuracies > Nothing can be right or real or good enough, unless it is posted by a meta website or a popular commercial streamer, and even when those sources are slightly inaccurate or sometimes flat out wrong, they're still right. It's the "Coca-Cola effect", where so much word of mouth & commercialism has made everyone believe that it is the king of all sodas, regardless of the fact that so many other better sodas exists or at the least, sodas that match it's quality in a different way. lol what a conspiracy. im not a popular guild member, a streamer or anything like that, yet i upload reaper benchmarks and they're taken seriously because they're done correctly and fair. > I actually enjoy providing data & feedback for gaming communities but it isn't worth my time when it catches nothing but negative response. If you want the data & results of my 2nd test, go spend the gold to do it yourself. "your 30k is unrealistic here is why" as negative response? that's a constructive response > PS. 27k and 28k Soul Reaping benchmarks are achieved easily with Soul Reaping Dhuumfire spam rotations while using snowcrow standard benchmark tests. Spitting out 6 to 8 stacks of burning with 25 might is quite a bit more damage than the leeching from Blood, come to find out. I was surprised myself. i already did when balance patch came out and thats why im saying you wont get more than 28k in soul reaping (feel free to be better than me and prove me wrong though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Sublimatio.6981" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > * I always run the Soul Reaping variant because it deals a lot more damage. <- Soul Reaping is how to near 30k benchmarks. > > this is a lie. blood magic deals more damage. if you're getting 28k dps or more with soul reaping and realistic setup, it's not truly realistic and you messed some setting up. feel free to prove me wrong with combat log and a video (with trait window, sigils and consumables shown) > > > > > > I already did this and then removed the video because I wasn't using the snowcrow standard of boons/condis. I ran other test afterwards while using the benchmark standards but chose not to take the time to edit/upload/post the video because the results were unremarkable and really no different than anything else that has been posted before it. I did change the OP post to detail the 2nd test however. But the bigger reason why I chose to not take my time to provide any further data is because of overly aggressive and unreasonable responses from the community. > > Nothing can be right or real or good enough, unless it is posted by a meta website or a popular commercial streamer, and even when those sources are slightly inaccurate or sometimes flat out wrong, they're still right. It's the "Coca-Cola effect", where so much word of mouth & commercialism has made everyone believe that it is the king of all sodas, regardless of the fact that so many other better sodas exists or at the least, sodas that match it's quality in a different way. > > I actually enjoy providing data & feedback for gaming communities but it isn't worth my time when it catches nothing but negative response. If you want the data & results of my 2nd test, go spend the gold to do it yourself. > > PS. 27k and 28k Soul Reaping benchmarks are achieved easily with Soul Reaping Dhuumfire spam rotations while using snowcrow standard benchmark tests. Spitting out 6 to 8 stacks of burning with 25 might is quite a bit more damage than the leeching from Blood, come to find out. I was surprised myself. > > @"Sephylon.4938" Thanks for the response. > Constructive criticism is hardly a negative response.people pointing out flaws in your methodology are hardly toxic. And, furthermore, since you "enjoy providing data and feedback", why not provide it here to prove wrong those who disagree? I am curious as to your claims, and would gladly request a vid of your reaper SR benchmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"Sublimatio.6981" said: > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > * I always run the Soul Reaping variant because it deals a lot more damage. <- Soul Reaping is how to near 30k benchmarks. > > > this is a lie. blood magic deals more damage. if you're getting 28k dps or more with soul reaping and realistic setup, it's not truly realistic and you messed some setting up. feel free to prove me wrong with combat log and a video (with trait window, sigils and consumables shown) > > > > > > > > > > I already did this and then removed the video because I wasn't using the snowcrow standard of boons/condis. I ran other test afterwards while using the benchmark standards but chose not to take the time to edit/upload/post the video because the results were unremarkable and really no different than anything else that has been posted before it. I did change the OP post to detail the 2nd test however. But the bigger reason why I chose to not take my time to provide any further data is because of overly aggressive and unreasonable responses from the community. > > > > Nothing can be right or real or good enough, unless it is posted by a meta website or a popular commercial streamer, and even when those sources are slightly inaccurate or sometimes flat out wrong, they're still right. It's the "Coca-Cola effect", where so much word of mouth & commercialism has made everyone believe that it is the king of all sodas, regardless of the fact that so many other better sodas exists or at the least, sodas that match it's quality in a different way. > > > > I actually enjoy providing data & feedback for gaming communities but it isn't worth my time when it catches nothing but negative response. If you want the data & results of my 2nd test, go spend the gold to do it yourself. > > > > PS. 27k and 28k Soul Reaping benchmarks are achieved easily with Soul Reaping Dhuumfire spam rotations while using snowcrow standard benchmark tests. Spitting out 6 to 8 stacks of burning with 25 might is quite a bit more damage than the leeching from Blood, come to find out. I was surprised myself. > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" Thanks for the response. > > > > Constructive criticism is hardly a negative response.people pointing out flaws in your methodology are hardly toxic. And, furthermore, since you "enjoy providing data and feedback", why not provide it here to prove wrong those who disagree? I am curious as to your claims, and would gladly request a vid of your reaper SR benchmark. So, if you go to the first page and look at the responses that @"Warscythes.9307" left in this thread, you'll see a great example of constructive criticism, and general respect. I was able to have an actual conversation with this guy and correct the errors that were present in the first video. If these users were using that same kind of demeanor while requesting a 2nd video, I would have jumped right on it. This will be my last post in this thread but you should know that the corrected data in the OP post about the 2nd test is not a lie. If any of you want to prove/disprove these results, feel free to go spend the gold/run the tests/and edit videos yourselves. ~ Enjoy the rest of the discussion boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > @"Sublimatio.6981" said: > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > * I always run the Soul Reaping variant because it deals a lot more damage. <- Soul Reaping is how to near 30k benchmarks. > > > > this is a lie. blood magic deals more damage. if you're getting 28k dps or more with soul reaping and realistic setup, it's not truly realistic and you messed some setting up. feel free to prove me wrong with combat log and a video (with trait window, sigils and consumables shown) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already did this and then removed the video because I wasn't using the snowcrow standard of boons/condis. I ran other test afterwards while using the benchmark standards but chose not to take the time to edit/upload/post the video because the results were unremarkable and really no different than anything else that has been posted before it. I did change the OP post to detail the 2nd test however. But the bigger reason why I chose to not take my time to provide any further data is because of overly aggressive and unreasonable responses from the community. > > > > > > Nothing can be right or real or good enough, unless it is posted by a meta website or a popular commercial streamer, and even when those sources are slightly inaccurate or sometimes flat out wrong, they're still right. It's the "Coca-Cola effect", where so much word of mouth & commercialism has made everyone believe that it is the king of all sodas, regardless of the fact that so many other better sodas exists or at the least, sodas that match it's quality in a different way. > > > > > > I actually enjoy providing data & feedback for gaming communities but it isn't worth my time when it catches nothing but negative response. If you want the data & results of my 2nd test, go spend the gold to do it yourself. > > > > > > PS. 27k and 28k Soul Reaping benchmarks are achieved easily with Soul Reaping Dhuumfire spam rotations while using snowcrow standard benchmark tests. Spitting out 6 to 8 stacks of burning with 25 might is quite a bit more damage than the leeching from Blood, come to find out. I was surprised myself. > > > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" Thanks for the response. > > > > > > > Constructive criticism is hardly a negative response.people pointing out flaws in your methodology are hardly toxic. And, furthermore, since you "enjoy providing data and feedback", why not provide it here to prove wrong those who disagree? I am curious as to your claims, and would gladly request a vid of your reaper SR benchmark. > > So, if you go to the first page and look at the responses that @"Warscythes.9307" left in this thread, you'll see a great example of constructive criticism, and general respect. I was able to have an actual conversation with this guy and correct the errors that were present in the first video. If these users were using that same kind of demeanor while requesting a 2nd video, I would have jumped right on it. > > This will be my last post in this thread but you should know that the corrected data in the OP post about the 2nd test is not a lie. If any of you want to prove/disprove these results, feel free to go spend the gold/run the tests/and edit videos yourselves. > > ~ Enjoy the rest of the discussion boys. > I respect you and your work, and I genuinely ask for a vid because i main nec (i made wvw leggy armor just for nec). I would greatly appreciate it if you would provide a link, even in-game via mail. Thank you for your time and patience. Stay well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetatis.5418 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 the default utility on necro (without sacrificing a big chunk of dps) is already okay. i have just put my thoughts on it in the professions forums. rezzes and minor heals with well of blood better protection uptime for the group via wells soft cc hard cc wurm with multiple uses about 1.5k +dps in a group and again minor heals via vampiric (if we talk about realistic 15k-17k dps in encounters, this actually adds up, since it is bound to hits/s and not affected by armor) a little more forgiving due to the self sustain (might, healthpool/heal, attack speed in shroud if quickness uptime is not 100% at some point, crit chance) and ranged option if you ever need to back up - looking at you, fractals (you dont lose 98%dps... go axe and still do atleast something. compared to most other **power** specs ). by thinking longer about it i am sure necro does not need major reworks. a few QoL changes and a bit of added efficiency (dps up to a point of just above 30k dps?) could be enough to make it atleast acceptable for endgame pve. the pro is the little things power reaper offers almost by default. the con is, that nobody appreciates the "default" stuff... and a profession like warrior or ranger runs banner/spirits/stances (major group utility) and still does more dps on its own (ranger even significantly more dps). edit: unfortunately the boon remove isnt "that" default on reaper. mesmer sword AA is better. i would have loved to see that on the pro list of utility aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 They do balance intra-game mode though, which is why I assume Necromancer is at the lower end of the totem in terms of DPS. Necromancers in wvw/pvp are boon removing AoE cleaving machines, with a lot of damage mitigation tools at their disposal. If they were to match the top damage capablities of certain other classes, it would become broken quickly in the competitive game modes. In fact, when Scourge was released, that is pretty much what was happening. IE: Gobs of life steal, Traits like Parasitic Contagion & Blighter's Boon. In situations such as wvw when 30 guys are huddled together against 30 guys, life steal/PC/BB all STACK with general regen buffs & hard heals, and of course now Barriers which the Scourge tosses to himself and party members. Even Core Necros/Reapers are benefiting frequent boosts to Life Force due to how many opponents are being downed around them constantly. <- Regardless of the argument & opinions that other users have stated about Necro sustain, it's well known that Necromancer based builds are inherently very tanky in ways that other classes are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 The problem with Necro - or rather: Scourge - in PvP is more or less the massive boon-spam the game offers. Other MMORPGs also offer boon-corruption-mechanics. The difference though is that you have to cast these boons yourself instead of simply generating them. That way, you can defend yourself from boon-corruption by actually managing the usage of boons. Nonetheless, boon-corruption still doesn't justify why Reaper-DPS is so very low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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