Most UP(Underpowered) class?

[Tails.9372]

Ignoring gimmicks, certain thief builds are definitely underpowered. Same with Necromancer and some other stuff.

[otto.5684]

I was considering necro, but they are fairly strong in PvP.

 

I feel that voting for rev is unfair. Power herald is fairly strong in sPvP. Wvw rev is probably best backline damage. Renegade is okayish in raids (and probably power rev now as well). Though rev surely has the least viable builds in every game mode, beside our true winner.

 

Ele, after last two patches the staff dps lead on large box is no longer that much from DH and renegade. It is okay on small box, but far from ideal. Ele is dead in PvP. Tempest is dead every where. Ele is probably the weakest open world PvE class.

 

 

 

 

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> Ignoring gimmicks, certain thief builds are definitely underpowered. Same with Necromancer and some other stuff.

 

If you're going by builds, every class will have underpowered stuff. The question is meant to ask what class *in general* is underpowered.

 

I don't think any class is particularly underpowered now. I'll argue rev and engi still have a lot of issues that need work, and bits of necro (pve) and ele (pvp) could use some help. The problem is that threads like this are the "pain olympics" and popular classes that are slightly weaker will tend to win them. Case in point, our favorite edgelords, necros.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> The question is meant to ask what class *in general* is underpowered.

And that's exactly what my answer is based on, the vast majority of thief builds are trash except for some niches where they are passable at best. They don't have good AoEs, they don't have good support, they're not good at tanking and the only thing they are kind of "good at" (single target damage) is something most builds are also on the low end of the spectrum. A profession having one or two good builds (especially if it's just for some niche) doesn't mean that the profession as a whole isn't "underpowerd" which is something many people seem to ignore.

[Lily.1935]

Hmm. In spite of my harping on how necromancer is a balancing mess and that its shroud mechanic was a huge mistake, and how much I keep pointing out that revenant has the most linear gameplay imaginable and that it has very few skills I have to say engineer.

 

Now before you guys gasp with disbelief and horror for this suggestion let me explain. When we look at effort vs outcome we can see that the Engineer asks quite a bit from the player. Many of their best builds require an extreme undertaking with a complex skill rotation or requires them to actually hurt themselves similar to necromancer, but without a real way to mitigate that damage. With this, what does the engineer have to show for it? Okay builds or under preforming builds when done perfectly. So with that in mind I have to give it to Engineer. This isn't to say that Necro and Rev don't have problems and aren't under powered.

[Scar.1793]

Power Rev/Necro.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

It's probably easier to sort out which classes are least terrible and go from there. Even though I voted for necromancer, it does have its advantages. Particularly that it is newbie friendly and can inflict nearly full damage at 900 range. IMO there are a couple of close competitors for weakest class:

 

Elemenatlists with their recent nerf got it pretty hard. Originally ele held the titles of highest damage at 1200 range, squishiest class, hardest class to play well, and most affected by enemy size. With the recent nerfs, eles are now a mediocre DPS class on small targets that also has the burden of being incredibly hard to play. Contrary to popular opinion, Thieves are a lot harder to kill than eles, since thieves have a ton of dodge skills and an incredibly flexible rotation. All of the skill dodges that ele gets are inflexible, being locked away in attunement swaps. Even after all this time, I still haven't learned how to play sword weaver well.

 

Revenants are always in an... odd place. For one, their DPS rotations are highly situational, frequently counter-intuitive, and easy to mess up. This makes them somewhat effective in a lot of places, but not stellar enough considering all the difficulty in playing them. Because their high damaging spec is the condi spec, they suffer from ramp up issues, which is becoming more of a problem now that power is fully taking hold. I guess my issue is that the only way to play rev well atm is to change options away from how I play the game, and camp inside of the large hitbox while hoping energy management doesn't mess up, whereas before I could sit pretty with toggles and camp mace. For someone with carpal tunnel this difference means worlds.

 

Necromancers have had their abilities gutted recently, leaving them with relatively low DPS. The ramp-up on them is so painful, and even running wells makes the damage feel slow. With epidemic gutted, they've lost the advantage of having the widest AoE damage in the game, so now they just sort of... sit there. One advantage to the class is that Reaper is easy to play and fun to do so.

 

I can fully understand anyone voting for one of those three.

 

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

PVP - necro.

PVE - who even play that?

WvW - still necro.

[Aetatis.5418]

cant answer, because its too dependend on gamemode and specialization.

 

some professions are scaled down to a single specialization.

 

however, thiefs, necros, engineers and revenants are somewhat left behind in **many** scenarios of the game. the rest of the professions is wanted **almost** everywhere and competitive.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> PVP - necro.

> PVE - who even play that?

> WvW - still necro.

 

Saying that necromancer is underpowered in WvW is like saying that rangers and mesmer are underpowered in PvE. The necromancer is an unshakable part of the WvW meta in WvW, nobody can reasonably deny this fact.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > PVP - necro.

> > PVE - who even play that?

> > WvW - still necro.

>

> Saying that necromancer is underpowered in WvW is like saying that rangers and mesmer are underpowered in PvE. The necromancer is an unshakable part of the WvW meta in WvW, nobody can reasonably deny this fact.

 

I can and i will. Necromancer's validity - denied.

[zinkz.7045]

> @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> WvW - still necro.

 

OP this shows why your poll is completely worthless.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

> @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > WvW - still necro.

>

> OP this shows why your poll is completely worthless.

 

And this show how much some people enjoy that their mains aren't necromancers.

[Hiki.9310]

Revenant

Trying to use anything but glint/shiro in spvp feels hopeless and renegade is just bad.

 

[zinkz.7045]

> @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > > WvW - still necro.

> >

> > OP this shows why your poll is completely worthless.

>

> And this show how much some people enjoy that their mains aren't necromancers.

 

Project much?

 

What it shows is someone objective and who can count, who can amazingly work out that a class that has been meta for years and played in vast numbers is not under-powered in WvW.

 

And incidentally I didn't have a main when I played this game and I don't really enjoy any class anymore, because the powercreep has turned the combat to trash and WvW is dead, so I've played maybe 25 hours in the whole of 2018, hence I haven't voted in this poll for my non-existent "main", unlike some. ;)

 

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

> @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > WvW - still necro.

>

> OP this shows why your poll is completely worthless.

 

Projecting much?

 

What it shows is someone who is subjective and who can lie, who can't work out that a class wasn't meta for years and haven't been seen in any tournament or other kind of high end competitive scene ever.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > > WvW - still necro.

> >

> > OP this shows why your poll is completely worthless.

>

> Projecting much?

>

> What it shows is someone who is subjective and who can lie, who can't work out that a class wasn't meta for years and haven't been seen in any tournament or other kind of high end competitive scene ever.

 

Except that the necromancer have been meta in both PvP and WvW for year, just because boon corruption is a thing. But considering:

 

> who can lie

 

I guess the whole sentence make sense.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > > @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > > > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > > > WvW - still necro.

> > >

> > > OP this shows why your poll is completely worthless.

> >

> > Projecting much?

> >

> > What it shows is someone who is subjective and who can lie, who can't work out that a class wasn't meta for years and haven't been seen in any tournament or other kind of high end competitive scene ever.

>

> Except that the necromancer have been meta in both PvP and WvW for year, just because boon corruption is a thing.

 

There were many tournaments and championships of GW2. Please, show how many necromancers have participated and how many necromancers were present in teams of winners.

Open google -> find those people -> post videos of them here.

I will be waiting.

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > > > @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > > > > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > > > > WvW - still necro.

> > > >

> > > > OP this shows why your poll is completely worthless.

> > >

> > > Projecting much?

> > >

> > > What it shows is someone who is subjective and who can lie, who can't work out that a class wasn't meta for years and haven't been seen in any tournament or other kind of high end competitive scene ever.

> >

> > Except that the necromancer have been meta in both PvP and WvW for year, just because boon corruption is a thing.

>

> There were many tournaments and championships of GW2. Please, show how many necromancers have participated and how many necromancers were present in teams of winners.

> Open google -> find those people -> post videos of them here.

> I will be waiting.

>

 

Why bother with video when you can have:

- World championship september 2016: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2_World_Championship_2016

- Pro league february 2016: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pro_League

 

You can see that with HoT, almost all of them had a necromancer with them. And I'll avoid talking about the most recent necromancer's history with scourge right? It's not like there was an endless stream of thread in the PvP subforum beging to nerf the scourge to the ground because team had all 2 or more scourges.

 

As for WvW, the Well'o'mancers were an essential part of the good old GWEN meta (guardian, warrior, elementalist, necromancer). The pirateship meta still made use of the Well'o'mancer and reapers were cursed because "to many bleed... blah blah blah". And the scourge wave... Oups I mean the current meta, still use necromancer as it's backbone.

[zinkz.7045]

> @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > > WvW - still necro.

> >

> > OP this shows why your poll is completely worthless.

>

> Projecting much?

>

> What it shows is someone who is subjective and who can lie, who can't work out that a class wasn't meta for years and haven't been seen in any tournament or other kind of high end competitive scene ever.

 

Necro has been meta in WvW pretty much the entire game (what was it you thought the N in GWEN stood for?), there is a thing called boon corruption, necro has been by far the best class for that, it also has lots of unreflectable AOE and these days barrier for support, all very useful in WvW.

 

As you clearly have never played WvW, then I suggest watching a stream and looking at the squads, normally necros are the most numerous class. As for "competitive", putting aside GvG is even more dead than the rest of the game, here is a video of Amp vs Lays from earlier in the year ( see - youtube.com/watch?v=iDS8mDhUo-Q&t=313 ), you'll note out of a squad of 20 that 6 are scourges, so in a game with 9 classes, about 30% were scourges.

 

Maybe you should actually play WvW a bit before commenting on something you obviously have no idea about.

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Remus Darkblight.1673" said:

> > I've gone with Thief mainly on how it's either bad or simply a non-discussion in PvE. I love the thief stylistically and thematically but I've just never been able to get to grips with it. Maybe it's just a bad match for how I play but I don't have this issue with other classes. Even against AI opponents I can struggle with Thief.

> > Whether this is a design issue or a git good issue is debatable.

>

> Lol, thief joins the meme club. Seriously, 39k from basically autoattacking is underpowered?

 

I also don't get why rev should be underpowered. In PvP it's really strong, same goes for wvw

And in raids it's at 36k on big target and 33 on small. It's in the upper half of the dmg table.

 

I don't know, but rev won't be kicked on groupjoin while necro will.

 

Again.

 

For another 3 months.

 

We had the discussion before. Sure Epi was too strong.

But nerfing necro further and not giving compensation for nerfed epi. A real cool Skilldesign that encouraged players to communicate?

Not a wise decision. I hope this patch was in order to prepare for an overhaul of necro

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > PVP - necro.

> > PVE - who even play that?

> > WvW - still necro.

>

> Saying that necromancer is underpowered in WvW is like saying that rangers and mesmer are underpowered in PvE. The necromancer is an unshakable part of the WvW meta in WvW, nobody can reasonably deny this fact.

 

Depends on what you play. If you roaming with necro.it is underpowered.

If you playing solo PvP it's also underpowered.

 

Because necro always needs a huge amount of support to work properly.

Anyone saying that necro is op in PvP and that he can't kill a solo necro, they should go back to open world pve. Or overthink your Playstyle.

 

There are at least some intelligent people that destroyed scourges even when dhuumfire was bugged on shades, when shades had no 0.5 delay.

 

Watch those players. It's really easy to kill necros if you know their weaknesses and necro actually has a lot of them, more than any other class of the game

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> >

> > Saying that necromancer is underpowered in WvW is like saying that rangers and mesmer are underpowered in PvE. The necromancer is an unshakable part of the WvW meta in WvW, nobody can reasonably deny this fact.

>

> Depends on what you play. If you roaming with necro.it is underpowered.

> If you playing solo PvP it's also underpowered.

>

> Because necro always needs a huge amount of support to work properly.

> Anyone saying that necro is op in PvP and that he can't kill a solo necro, they should go back to open world pve. Or overthink your Playstyle.

>

> There are at least some intelligent people that destroyed scourges even when dhuumfire was bugged on shades, when shades had no 0.5 delay.

>

> Watch those players. It's really easy to kill necros if you know their weaknesses and necro actually has a lot of them, more than any other class of the game

 

This is not a matter of being easy to kill or not. This isn't even a matter of wether it's good in 1v1 situation, this is a matter of whether it's underpowered or not. Is it outclassed by everybody and their grandma or not? Ultimately the game is not a single player game and WvW is more about group play than duelling.

 

Now, I'm sure that you are well aware that by using properly your necromancer you can kill most of the other profession 1v1 and even come out on top in more disavantageous situations. If not, look again at Hollt's videos or elwaer's, you'll see that in small scale fight the necromancer is neither overpowered nor underpowered.

 

In group fight scourges scale exceptionnally well with each others which make them strong pilars of the gamemode, reaper have enough abilities to dive in the enemy zerg and wreck havock, while core can still pull it's weight with the good old well'o'mancer build.

 

What I mean is that if the necromancer have it's weakness it also does have it's strengths. And the same goes for most other professions. In all objectivity, the necromancer is far from being underpowered in WvW. Being overly negative over a profession won't make this profession better, instead being keen on it's good and bad point can allow it to be played better.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > >

> > > Saying that necromancer is underpowered in WvW is like saying that rangers and mesmer are underpowered in PvE. The necromancer is an unshakable part of the WvW meta in WvW, nobody can reasonably deny this fact.

> >

> > Depends on what you play. If you roaming with necro.it is underpowered.

> > If you playing solo PvP it's also underpowered.

> >

> > Because necro always needs a huge amount of support to work properly.

> > Anyone saying that necro is op in PvP and that he can't kill a solo necro, they should go back to open world pve. Or overthink your Playstyle.

> >

> > There are at least some intelligent people that destroyed scourges even when dhuumfire was bugged on shades, when shades had no 0.5 delay.

> >

> > Watch those players. It's really easy to kill necros if you know their weaknesses and necro actually has a lot of them, more than any other class of the game

>

> This is not a matter of being easy to kill or not. This isn't even a matter of wether it's good in 1v1 situation, this is a matter of whether it's underpowered or not. Is it outclassed by everybody and their grandma or not? Ultimately the game is not a single player game and WvW is more about group play than duelling.

 

 

Why is necro then so bad in pve that it's only good at playing alone?

>

> Now, I'm sure that you are well aware that by using properly your necromancer you can kill most of the other profession 1v1 and even come out on top in more disavantageous situations. If not, look again at Hollt's videos or elwaer's, you'll see that in small scale fight the necromancer is neither overpowered nor underpowered.

 

Yeah yeah. Show me your power reaper. But in order to win against the other professions you have to be much better player than the enemy. If you are not, you will loose

Instead play guard and you can even win against good players

>

> In group fight scourges scale exceptionnally well with each others which make them strong pilars of the gamemode, reaper have enough abilities to dive in the enemy zerg and wreck havock, while core can still pull it's weight with the good old well'o'mancer build.

 

Sure walk into the enemy zerg with your reaper. If they aren't brain-dead people, you will die faster than you can say reaper

>

> What I mean is that if the necromancer have it's weakness it also does have it's strengths. And the same goes for most other professions. In all objectivity, the necromancer is far from being underpowered in WvW. Being overly negative over a profession won't make this profession better, instead being keen on it's good and bad point can allow it to be played better.

 

Compared to other classes, necro has more weaknesses than strengths

 

[aimz.6287]

Engi and rev and necro need the buffs more than any other class rest of the classes are balanced but Mesmer anyone who voted Mesmer hasn’t played since launch lol... maybe even beta