Would you still consider mirage good post patch? Or is mesmer in general under-performing?

[DrDivine.5378]

I'll be the first to say, even as a mesmer main, I wanted to see mirage nerfed. I always found meta mirage very bland to play, but putting that aside, it was a little too strong, low risk high reward.

 

That being said, I kinda wanted to see other lesser used options get buffed along with the meta nerfs, open up different play styles if that makes sense. I know some people might say "but berserker power shatter is strong!"

 

It's a gimmick build IMO, we already have builds like gunflame, pew pew ranger, deadeye, etc. did we really need another berserker class? I find condi mirage this patch to be pretty underwhelming, portal is ALWAYS nice, it's definitely not terrible, I just feel like there are better options to win 1v1s and team fights now. What are your thoughts?

[Vagrant.7206]

To answer the title: Yes. It is still quite powerful.

[mortrialus.3062]

Still feels exceptionally powerful in my opinion.

[Kako.1930]

It's pretty much the same as before. No substantial change.

[Solori.6025]

As long as mesmer has a build that is considered meta it will always be too powerful for the PvP community

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Kako.1930" said:

> It's pretty much the same as before. No substantial change.

 

^ This

[BeLZedaR.4790]

UNDER PERFORMING?

God forbid mesmer recieves a nerf from its meta dominating position, that everyone just learned to accept because its been like this since HoT.

[MrForz.1953]

I'm not sure I even remember Mesmer being underperforming since 2012.

[Solori.6025]

> @"MrForz.1953" said:

> I'm not sure I even remember Mesmer being underperforming since 2012.

 

Then you haven't been paying attention very long

[DrDivine.5378]

> @"MrForz.1953" said:

> I'm not sure I even remember Mesmer being underperforming since 2012.

 

There was a time when thief hard countered mesmer for a very long time, to the point where mesmer could not be taken into a match. Double ranged shatter was the most viable build at the time and thieves just ate right through it, no chance if winning lol

[Solori.6025]

> @"DrDivine.5378" said:

> > @"MrForz.1953" said:

> > I'm not sure I even remember Mesmer being underperforming since 2012.

>

> There was a time when thief hard countered mesmer for a very long time, to the point where mesmer could not be taken into a match. Double ranged shatter was the most viable build at the time and thieves just ate right through it, no chance if winning lol

 

To elaborate on this

Mesmer became unwanted in pvp meta after the various nerfs to traits and utilities, and then the buffing of Thief. One could say it was the numerous buffs to other classes like thief, Guardian, and Warrior that frequently kept the mesmer out of any real position other than being used for portals, and even then that was a liability because thief could add the roaming and +1 to fights, over performing most classes that decided to try and fill that role.

This isn't taking into account the various bugs that plagued the class from the start of the game, and the incremental buffs to the core mechanic (phantasm's and clones) since 2012

And lot of other things ( like fixing bugs that caused skills to miss for no reason, or the horrible AI pathing that was fixed around 2014(?) , clones being killed by AA, the loss of clone death traits, signets being useless, the revealed change, the change to phantasm summons etc.) That continuously hammered the mes out of any real power dps or +1 position until the trait rework. With the addition of Chronomancer the Mesmer gained a little more favor in team fights with the addition of Chrono Phantasma, Alacrity, and the ability to chain CC. The addition of Chronomancer also opened the mesmer up for a slot in WvW Zergs, and even PvE, both places where it had no real place in because other classes brought more to the table then mes. Also from a purely Spvp point of view, you could find helseth on record saying ( in not so many words) "Mesmer is not Viable, I am". At the time, that was true. Mesmer outside of a very specific team comp ( basically people playing around the mesmer, treating them as the team lead) was not largely viable.

 

 

 

 

[Legacy.7360]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> As long as mesmer has a build that is considered meta it will always be too powerful for the PvP community

 

Correction here, Mesmers have ALWAYS been meta since release day. Dev's favor this class - it's there baby along with the warrior class. Mesmers will always be viable no matter the season. Wish other class's had as much love.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Legacy.7360" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > As long as mesmer has a build that is considered meta it will always be too powerful for the PvP community

>

> Correction here, Mesmers have ALWAYS been meta since release day. Dev's favor this class - it's there baby along with the warrior class. Mesmers will always be viable no matter the season. Wish other class's had as much love.

 

read statement(s) above.

[maxwelgm.4315]

Mesmers are not OP because of the damage they had and nothing that made them powerful has been changed/removed. Their class mechanics are intrinsically favored by the game mode of Conquest and also by the combat system itself. Anet can make it so bad mesmers are really bad, but they can't do anything to avoid good mesmers beating any other good player on their preferred class, unless they change class mechanics.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

The crux of the issue is that Anet has no idea how to balance skills that grant evade frames while performing an attack/applying pressure. This mechanic is extremely powerful within the game’s combat system, and they consistently undervalue all aspects of these types of skills and grant them too freely.

 

Now, take a class like Mirage where the entire theme is centered around being able to use a plethora of evade frames to not only apply full damage pressure in return, but to actually significantly enhance the offensive aspect of these dual-window (attack/evade) abilities.

 

This doesn’t even touch upon the power of being able to break stun on dodge, dodge while stunned, have extreme mobility on dodge (sword), or freely cover a heal/important skill with dodge.

 

Mirage will be over-tuned in this game mode until there is some serious effort to adress it. The entire class was designed with PvE balance in mind, and ignored any kind of PvP consideration.

[DrDivine.5378]

> @"Legacy.7360" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > As long as mesmer has a build that is considered meta it will always be too powerful for the PvP community

>

> Correction here, Mesmers have ALWAYS been meta since release day. Dev's favor this class - it's there baby along with the warrior class. Mesmers will always be viable no matter the season. Wish other class's had as much love.

 

No they haven't, you haven't been here very long then lol Anyone who's played pvp for years will tell you when mesmers were a free kill for thieves with no counterplay.

[Zaraki.5784]

Stop this nonsense-complain, Mirage is still OP as hell and it needs to be nerfed further!

[Apolo.5942]

Mesmer is still easy mode

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

This patch only nerf core significantly but barely touch mirage issues.

 

We all know how this will end up. They throw daggers blindfolded until they hit the target on mirage then leave mesmer with very little viable build.

Then players jump to the next bandwagon and complain about that class. And circle of life continues in GW2's dwindling PvP population.

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"Legacy.7360" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > As long as mesmer has a build that is considered meta it will always be too powerful for the PvP community

>

> Correction here, Mesmers have ALWAYS been meta since release day. Dev's favor this class - it's there baby along with the warrior class. Mesmers will always be viable no matter the season. Wish other class's had as much love.

 

This is simply not correct. In my 6th year with GW2 Mesmer has been down more than it's been up. **We've also had a series of truly massive nerfs: The huge glamour nerf that left Mesmer basically helpless for a year, PU, Clone Death, Moa ( repeatedly,) distortion ( repeatedly,) sword leap to break juking, Illusionary elasticity turned off for more than a year, alacrity, wells and more...**

 

Mesmer has had more than it's share of restrictions and trim backs. It's not the fault of the class that others don't know how to play against it.

[Blue.1207]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"MrForz.1953" said:

> > I'm not sure I even remember Mesmer being underperforming since 2012.

>

> Then you haven't been paying attention very long

 

4.5 years of getting blown up by thieves. Yey.

[Swagg.9236]

My favorite nerf was reducing the recharge of blurred frenzy from 12s to 10s when it used to be 10s at launch and was buffed to 12s in, like, 2012 or something because even back when the game wasn't totally saturated with one-shots and invuln chain memes, a 10s-recharge blurred frenzy was stupid overpowered and annoying to fight against.

[Math.5123]

> @"DrDivine.5378" said:

> > @"Legacy.7360" said:

> > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > As long as mesmer has a build that is considered meta it will always be too powerful for the PvP community

> >

> > Correction here, Mesmers have ALWAYS been meta since release day. Dev's favor this class - it's there baby along with the warrior class. Mesmers will always be viable no matter the season. Wish other class's had as much love.

>

> No they haven't, you haven't been here very long then lol Anyone who's played pvp for years will tell you when mesmers were a free kill for thieves with no counterplay.

 

"Just dodge steal" - Every thief ever

[jportell.2197]

I remember when my team forced me off Mesmer to play a Celestial bruiser build on a class I've never played because Mesmer was so underperforming that it was a liability on even the best teams.

 

I remember in one of the tournaments when ESL was still tryingnto happen that helseth switched to necro because Mesmer was so underpowered.

 

So for those of you who have been saying Mesmer has been OP since launch clearly haven't played since launch. Or you were bad against Mesmer then and you're just as bad now. So happy the balance team fordnr listen to forums for balance suggestions anymore

[DrDivine.5378]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"DrDivine.5378" said:

> > > @"Legacy.7360" said:

> > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > As long as mesmer has a build that is considered meta it will always be too powerful for the PvP community

> > >

> > > Correction here, Mesmers have ALWAYS been meta since release day. Dev's favor this class - it's there baby along with the warrior class. Mesmers will always be viable no matter the season. Wish other class's had as much love.

> >

> > No they haven't, you haven't been here very long then lol Anyone who's played pvp for years will tell you when mesmers were a free kill for thieves with no counterplay.

>

> "Just dodge steal" - Every thief ever

 

That sums it up, It's almost hard to think there was a time when condi mesmer was not viable. PU mesmer was a cancer build, but lacked mobility and team fighting potential, the actual viable build was double danged shatter memser. Both classes were fighting for that role of "high damage high mobility" asassin basically, but there were a few problems.

 

A thief had everything it needed to hard counter mesmer and make it unviable. Thieves could not only shadowstep to them immediately, but stealing gave them every boon in the game, which was just salt to the wound. As a mesmer, kiting a thief was impossible.