T4 and pugging: why are things worse?

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"squallaus.8321" said:

> I guess it depends on how you look at it. I think some times carrying is fun cos you get to practice killing things low man when a few others are downed. Just not all the time.

 

Works for T4, quite difficult on CMs.

[Eramonster.2718]

Nothing out of the ordinary for me, or could've gotten numb to it :lol: who knows. Consider it as part of random PuG'ing feature, can never be sure of the players you're going to get. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones, most of my T4 experiences with PuGs excluding CMs are decent (eg. rarely experienced any fail T.O after the first two weeks from it's released, for months everything is 1 shot). The time for clearing all T4s + recs however varies, from 30mins to an hour. Yesterday's T4s + recs took 40mins tops, with 4 dps 1 druid healer with no chrono.

 

Edit : 4 manned Nightmare midway because a dps dc'd and did not return.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

After I started doing CMs daily my pug runs feel much better. Looks like in normal T4 groups what you get is leftovers. Unless you start doing CMs, the only option is to play carry profession, especially mesmer.

[aceofbass.2163]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

>Lately, however, I see a big difference in pugs. People who dont bother dodging, who dont use potions, who dont strafe to not get hit by the AoE, who just sit in the little agony AoEs and expect the druid or chrono to power them through everything, cause they "have to do dps, man, its your job to keep me alive".

 

lol literally this. I was with a pug group earlier and one of today's daily is twilight oasis. We had no healer so I switched to healing build. Noticed some of them just standing in the last laugh explosion on the other levels. Then amala came and switched to melandru phase. They were sticking close to amala even though the golem focus was on them, not even dodging.

 

So I asked.

Me: are you guys ignoring the mechanics?

1 guy: yeah

 

Just to be sure, I asked again

Me: I mean the mark when the golem is focusing

that guy again: yeah I was ignoring that

 

Not sure if trolling or confident because "have to do dps, man, its your job to keep me alive".

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"aceofbass.2163" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> >Lately, however, I see a big difference in pugs. People who dont bother dodging, who dont use potions, who dont strafe to not get hit by the AoE, who just sit in the little agony AoEs and expect the druid or chrono to power them through everything, cause they "have to do dps, man, its your job to keep me alive".

>

> lol literally this. I was with a pug group earlier and one of today's daily is twilight oasis. We had no healer so I switched to healing build. Noticed some of them just standing in the last laugh explosion on the other levels. Then amala came and switched to melandru phase. They were sticking close to amala even though the golem focus was on them, not even dodging.

>

> So I asked.

> Me: are you guys ignoring the mechanics?

> 1 guy: yeah

>

> Just to be sure, I asked again

> Me: I mean the mark when the golem is focusing

> that guy again: yeah I was ignoring that

>

> Not sure if trolling or confident because "have to do dps, man, its your job to keep me alive".

 

Exactly.

 

The fact that the druid (or any healer) can even keep people alive through such a blatant ignoring of mechanics speaks for its self. As mentioned earlier, people do not bother to even learn mechanics or adapt to the game. It's tank and spank just like in other MMOs, and then people complain when challenge modes are "to hard".

[Talindra.4958]

I been busy so haven't done much gaming :) yesterday done t4 run again with pug and a friend. I have to say. cool changes Ben for the mistlock :) clever idea .. I remember the thread about removing gg and not removing gg etc etc.. only thing still a little issue is, if in combat we cant get mistlock, but its cool still :)

 

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> I have been doing T4 daily with pugs, throughout the years. Things were mostly fine, we did fractals without needing necessarily meta compositions or meta builds. The occasional wipe didnt bother anyone, really. Lately, however, I see a big difference in pugs. People who dont bother dodging, who dont use potions, who dont strafe to not get hit by the AoE, who just sit in the little agony AoEs and expect the druid or chrono to power them through everything, cause they "have to do dps, man, its your job to keep me alive". I have witnessed more wipes in the last 2 weeks than in the last 6 months. Do you have similar experiences, or is it just me?

 

I am ok with any kind of pug as long as the pug is not toxic. usually my run is ok. not too bad

[thrag.9740]

healers in game = content designed with healers in mind

 

fractals have gotten much worse to pug over the last few years imo. Much better to social and network, and play exclusively with friends when possible.

[maxwelgm.4315]

> @"thrag.9740" said:

> healers in game = content designed with healers in mind

>

> fractals have gotten much worse to pug over the last few years imo. Much better to social and network, and play exclusively with friends when possible.

 

There are absolutely no proper healers in the game, we are merely experiencing immense power creep and Anet has designed themselves into a corner with elite specs. Druid is a tradeoff: it should give immense offensive support with risible healing at best while lacking damage, whereas say, Tempest is supposed to be able to output large amounts of healing while forsaking most DPS and having no capacity to provide offensive boons and CC, etc. But still it shouldn't be able to just sit there _spamming heals_ while people _actually soak mechanics_. Having skips like jumping around mobs in Twilight Oasis is OK, being able to ignore every mechanic in Nightmare because you can outheal Ensolyss? Now that's pretty bad design.

[Blackari.2051]

well, about 3 weeks ago I came back to the game after couple of months, friends with whom I played CMs are gone and since every single group wants at least 100+ kp which I do not have, I can only run daily T4s and it is a gamble. personally I hate elitist crap like "meta or gtfo" so I joined any group which was going to do T4... and maaan population has changed. Before my break there were more successful groups for T4. Now if you dont join "chrono, dudu + dps" group you have 90% chance of having wipefest in front of you. And I am not saying that players in "meta groups" are some kind of extra skilled, it is just that those builds are carrying even bad players, whilist if you dont run meta group and you have noobs in it you will feel the pain even in your bones.

[DutchRiders.2871]

I and many of my guildies stopped pugging t4s because of the random instabilities. They turned chill t4s in a horrible experience. I rather join high requirement groups since those are more easy going.

 

 

[Rodrick.1942]

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> I understand the complaints about new comers, random builds, descending skill. But what can we do ?

> It's simple : communication, adaptation.

> People whipe on final boss, so you'll leave, join another random PUG, do 10 minutes parkour, and leave again ? People can't even say "HI" when joining the group, so don't tell me people explain, or are "tired to explain", because it's false; I PUG almost everyday, at least W-E, I've been there for Observatory, Chaos, OT, CM's training, etc... no one ever explain me or to others the patterns, the mechanicals... no one. Okai it's T4, people should know a little about by the t1-t3; but difficulties, needs and bosses are not the always the same. I've been kick of Deepstone Fractal T2, 2 days after patch only because I ask at the beginning what we have to do. Really ??? It's shorter to kick than to say "Just DPS" ???

> Real problem isn't Beginners, it is communication in "HL". Or people are too proud to explain and join the beggars, or they have somethings to hide, because of the firsts. I don't know, but It doen't work.

>

> Okai there is beginners in T4 we don't even know how they reach here, but there is also many auto-proclaim "skilled" gamers that just ragequit permanently or instakick. They come with generic meta build; okai if the others play the same and are awake everything goes well. But somethings don't go well ... errrrrrrrrr let's ragequit, Ciao noobs.

> How many "META ONLY" group I've seen, the mesmer or the SB couldn't even remove boons when "No Pain, No Gain", couldn't pull enemies with focus, no one could cleanse condi, druid change spirits for stone spirits, or two wars with the same banners (or no banner, at choice) ... And no one told them, and people left ... ????

> I don't know for you but I can change my skills, my specs, I can chat with my group; I can even change class. The generic meta build obviously are great when you play a generic meta compo; and again, even in raid there is a lot people full stuff, good rotation etc, that don't know what to do to the boss or their allies and they just wait that the boss standstills like the golem. We have to adapt, we have to find out what we lack of !

> We can ask politely people to pack or not, to take foods, to change builds for a particular situation, even if it's not their "role". People won't learn about their kitten build and the fractals needs if no one explain them. And if we ask you, it's not you're bad, you don't have to ragequit or complaint they're noobs, it's the need.

>

>

 

> @"Bakeneko.5826" said:

> > @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > I understand the complaints about new comers, random builds, descending skill. But what can we do ?

> > It's simple : communication, adaptation.

> > People whipe on final boss, so you'll leave, join another random PUG, do 10 minutes parkour, and leave again ? People can't even say "HI" when joining the group, so don't tell me people explain, or are "tired to explain", because it's false; I PUG almost everyday, at least W-E, I've been there for Observatory, Chaos, OT, CM's training, etc... no one ever explain me or to others the patterns, the mechanicals... no one. Okai it's T4, people should know a little about by the t1-t3; but difficulties, needs and bosses are not the always the same. I've been kick of Deepstone Fractal T2, 2 days after patch only because I ask at the beginning what we have to do. Really ??? It's shorter to kick than to say "Just DPS" ???

> > Real problem isn't Beginners, it is communication in "HL". Or people are too proud to explain and join the beggars, or they have somethings to hide, because of the firsts. I don't know, but It doen't work.

> >

> > Okai there is beginners in T4 we don't even know how they reach here, but there is also many auto-proclaim "skilled" gamers that just ragequit permanently or instakick. They come with generic meta build; okai if the others play the same and are awake everything goes well. But somethings don't go well ... errrrrrrrrr let's ragequit, Ciao noobs.

> > How many "META ONLY" group I've seen, the mesmer or the SB couldn't even remove boons when "No Pain, No Gain", couldn't pull enemies with focus, no one could cleanse condi, druid change spirits for stone spirits, or two wars with the same banners (or no banner, at choice) ... And no one told them, and people left ... ????

> > I don't know for you but I can change my skills, my specs, I can chat with my group; I can even change class. The generic meta build obviously are great when you play a generic meta compo; and again, even in raid there is a lot people full stuff, good rotation etc, that don't know what to do to the boss or their allies and they just wait that the boss standstills like the golem. We have to adapt, we have to find out what we lack of !

> > We can ask politely people to pack or not, to take foods, to change builds for a particular situation, even if it's not their "role". People won't learn about their kitten build and the fractals needs if no one explain them. And if we ask you, it's not you're bad, you don't have to ragequit or complaint they're noobs, it's the need.

> >

> >

>

> After break from GW for couple of months i returned to CM meta only fractals and problem is - total clueless people, who think they are best having no idea how to adapt to fractal. Even before eles would run wever only because "dps is better on golem" well kitten, this isnt golem and this isnt raid, some bosses you have to move a lot more, because some kitten cant stay close so boss doesnt jump all over the place. If anything, CM groups and "hardcore" raid groups know nothing about their classes besides copy pasting build off SC or whatever is guild of the half year for that time. Sometimes you need to run lower dps spec for more dps

 

Believe me , those meta followers will just bring more weaver and try to kill boss instantly before it can do anything.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Just start an LFG saying "No meta".

 

You will usually get better players who know the mechanics and do not need some druid spamming heals to keep them alive.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> Just start an LFG saying "No meta".

>

> You will usually get better players who know the mechanics and do not need some druid spamming heals to keep them alive.

 

That really made me laugh... You forgot the "/s" btw.

The sort of players you'll usually get is responsible for runs lasting longer than an hour.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > Just start an LFG saying "No meta".

> >

> > You will usually get better players who know the mechanics and do not need some druid spamming heals to keep them alive.

>

> That really made me laugh... You forgot the "/s" btw.

> The sort of players you'll usually get is responsible for runs lasting longer than an hour.

 

I do not know what region you play with, or at what times you play, but at the times I play, in the region I play, I'd rather spend 10-20 minutes in each fractal because people focus on surviving over DPS than spend 30 because all the wipes by 'meta' players who think they are magically good just because they are using some build they copied off some site without really bothering with the guide on how to use it, and won't even make any changes to it for the current fractal and the current instabilities, and who won't ever bother with boss mechanics, or who leave because they keep going down because they refuse to react to any of the boss mechanics, and they wanted to get carried in quick 5-7 min run on each fractal, and the party has to constantly keep opening LFGs to replace the leavers.

 

No, thanks. Better safe than sorry.

[Xantaria.8726]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > Just start an LFG saying "No meta".

> > >

> > > You will usually get better players who know the mechanics and do not need some druid spamming heals to keep them alive.

> >

> > That really made me laugh... You forgot the "/s" btw.

> > The sort of players you'll usually get is responsible for runs lasting longer than an hour.

>

> I do not know what region you play with, or at what times you play, but at the times I play, in the region I play, I'd rather spend 10-20 minutes in each fractal because people focus on surviving over DPS than spend 30 because all the wipes by 'meta' players who think they are magically good just because they are using some build they copied off some site without really bothering with the guide on how to use it, and won't even make any changes to it for the current fractal and the current instabilities, and who won't ever bother with boss mechanics, or who leave because they keep going down because they refuse to react to any of the boss mechanics, and they wanted to get carried in quick 5-7 min run on each fractal, and the party has to constantly keep opening LFGs to replace the leavers.

>

> No, thanks. Better safe than sorry.

 

Good think that every stupid meta player is the same and every player with other mindset knows exactly what we think, do or want. No offense but unstead of using some cliche arguments about those just admit that you dont wont want to play with them, which is completly your right.

But just cause some idiots really just copy and paste builds doesnt mean that everyone does, and most meta players dont. And in most meta groups i join, i have the exact opposite experience of what you discribe. Maybe its the time or region you play, but then pls dont start another rent about how toxic or bad meta players are. Thank you.

[Xantaria.8726]

> @"Blackari.2051" said:

> well, about 3 weeks ago I came back to the game after couple of months, friends with whom I played CMs are gone and since every single group wants at least 100+ kp which I do not have, I can only run daily T4s and it is a gamble. personally I hate elitist crap like "meta or gtfo" so I joined any group which was going to do T4... and maaan population has changed. Before my break there were more successful groups for T4. Now if you dont join "chrono, dudu + dps" group you have 90% chance of having wipefest in front of you. And I am not saying that players in "meta groups" are some kind of extra skilled, it is just that those builds are carrying even bad players, whilist if you dont run meta group and you have noobs in it you will feel the pain even in your bones.

 

Cause most players who dont want a wipefest moved on to cms+t4, cause most of those players causing a wipefest dont have cm kps. Its bad for returning players which have skill but just didnt play during the release of it, but thats always the problem in GW2 with kps, be it in raids or fracs. Wouldnt be much of a problem if you would have actual indicator in game to judge how good someone is, like a boss/frac-counter which can be looked in by others, but then many would also be triggered cause others can see how they perform :P.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > Just start an LFG saying "No meta".

> > >

> > > You will usually get better players who know the mechanics and do not need some druid spamming heals to keep them alive.

> >

> > That really made me laugh... You forgot the "/s" btw.

> > The sort of players you'll usually get is responsible for runs lasting longer than an hour.

>

> I do not know what region you play with, or at what times you play, but at the times I play, in the region I play, I'd rather spend 10-20 minutes in each fractal because people focus on surviving over DPS than spend 30 because all the wipes by 'meta' players who think they are magically good just because they are using some build they copied off some site without really bothering with the guide on how to use it, and won't even make any changes to it for the current fractal and the current instabilities, and who won't ever bother with boss mechanics, or who leave because they keep going down because they refuse to react to any of the boss mechanics, and they wanted to get carried in quick 5-7 min run on each fractal, and the party has to constantly keep opening LFGs to replace the leavers.

>

> No, thanks. Better safe than sorry.

 

Ye, and in EU it's definitely the case that you are better off with at least one heal class otherwise there's little chance to be successful in fractals like TO, Ooze in Thaumanova, SO and some others. I think we can exclude things like Aquatic Ruins, Molten Furnace or Solid Ocean since these are no-brainers.

And it doesn't matter, if players are running tanky gear but are still clueless they maybe survive one more hit but nothing more. Since I'm a fractal veteran of the first hour I've seen a lot, a lot of situations where I was pure glass cannon and the last man standing although some others in my team had tanky stuff.

Players who know the mechanics and the encounters by heart are most often running meta builds and nothing else. Of course there are some exceptions but that's rarely the case.

[Etheri.5406]

Every time the game becomes easier; either through nerfs or power creep, the community goes "look, everything works in GW2 because it's amazing!"

"You can play whatever you want in fractals, it doesn't matter except for speedruns!"

"You can play whatever you want in zergs!"

"You can play whatever you want in raids!"

 

A few months later; the communities of these modes go "you can't join unless you run proper meta specs; we're done with your BS" and suddenly they all lose their minds.

So obvious, happens time and time and time again. The more you recommend other players, especially new ones, to play random off-meta stuff they can't pull off; the more toxic groups will be towards non-meta snowflakes.

 

Same with making the game easier. Constant cries to make the game easier in some way; yet the result is always just a general decrease in skill required. It doesn't lead to better gameplay or better players; it just allows players to play badly and still be rewarded.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > Just start an LFG saying "No meta".

> > >

> > > You will usually get better players who know the mechanics and do not need some druid spamming heals to keep them alive.

> >

> > That really made me laugh... You forgot the "/s" btw.

> > The sort of players you'll usually get is responsible for runs lasting longer than an hour.

>

> I do not know what region you play with, or at what times you play, but at the times I play, in the region I play, I'd rather spend 10-20 minutes in each fractal because people focus on surviving over DPS than spend 30 because all the wipes by 'meta' players who think they are magically good just because they are using some build they copied off some site without really bothering with the guide on how to use it, and won't even make any changes to it for the current fractal and the current instabilities, and who won't ever bother with boss mechanics, or who leave because they keep going down because they refuse to react to any of the boss mechanics, and they wanted to get carried in quick 5-7 min run on each fractal, and the party has to constantly keep opening LFGs to replace the leavers.

>

> No, thanks. Better safe than sorry.

 

Tanky gear wont guarantee or even raise the chance of survival.

Glass cannon meta gear and build doesnt mean more wipes.

 

Bad players exist on both sides. Meta player who ignores dodges etc hoping the druid will outheal agony+last laugh is a thing, as is a "tanky" gear player who cant do enough dmg to the boss and makes the boss fight last longer (hence mistakes will be more likely to happen). If my "meta" group fails to kill Ooze, or wipes frequently enough, i excuse myself and I leave. If the group fails to deliver enough dps and drags fractals to 2 hour grinds, i excuse myself and leave, as well.

[Etheri.5406]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > > Just start an LFG saying "No meta".

> > > >

> > > > You will usually get better players who know the mechanics and do not need some druid spamming heals to keep them alive.

> > >

> > > That really made me laugh... You forgot the "/s" btw.

> > > The sort of players you'll usually get is responsible for runs lasting longer than an hour.

> >

> > I do not know what region you play with, or at what times you play, but at the times I play, in the region I play, I'd rather spend 10-20 minutes in each fractal because people focus on surviving over DPS than spend 30 because all the wipes by 'meta' players who think they are magically good just because they are using some build they copied off some site without really bothering with the guide on how to use it, and won't even make any changes to it for the current fractal and the current instabilities, and who won't ever bother with boss mechanics, or who leave because they keep going down because they refuse to react to any of the boss mechanics, and they wanted to get carried in quick 5-7 min run on each fractal, and the party has to constantly keep opening LFGs to replace the leavers.

> >

> > No, thanks. Better safe than sorry.

>

> Tanky gear wont guarantee or even raise the chance of survival.

> Glass cannon meta gear and build doesnt mean more wipes.

>

> Bad players exist on both sides. Meta player who ignores dodges etc hoping the druid will outheal agony+last laugh is a thing, as is a "tanky" gear player who cant do enough dmg to the boss and makes the boss fight last longer (hence mistakes will be more likely to happen). If my "meta" group fails to kill Ooze, or wipes frequently enough, i excuse myself and I leave. If the group fails to deliver enough dps and drags fractals to 2 hour grinds, i excuse myself and leave, as well.

 

A lot of mechanics should be ignored and outhealed by chrono / druid. It's simply part of the meta strat. It's the exact same as in raids and many mediocre pugs still don't grasp this.

 

The better strategy is IGNORING greens on VG. The better strategy is NOT dodging slams but instead sharing aegis on gorse. Same on deimos. Same on many other bosses and plenty of other mechanics.

 

If you join groups with high KP as support, ofcourse they'll expect you to give aegis / outheal certain mechanics. The DPS meta is literally all about skipping as much mechanics as possible to trivialize the encounter towards a DPS golem. Because in truth, doing this properly is both fast and quite easy.

 

Yet 100 li raid pugs will still say "omg u no dodge !!!!!!! i r better than u" and the moment you notice your chrono is incapable; you should dodge. But frankly, goodluck doing burst openers if you're not going to get quickness at the start and you gotta dodge the first mechanics too. Only massively drops your burst :)

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Etheri.5406" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > > > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > > > Just start an LFG saying "No meta".

> > > > >

> > > > > You will usually get better players who know the mechanics and do not need some druid spamming heals to keep them alive.

> > > >

> > > > That really made me laugh... You forgot the "/s" btw.

> > > > The sort of players you'll usually get is responsible for runs lasting longer than an hour.

> > >

> > > I do not know what region you play with, or at what times you play, but at the times I play, in the region I play, I'd rather spend 10-20 minutes in each fractal because people focus on surviving over DPS than spend 30 because all the wipes by 'meta' players who think they are magically good just because they are using some build they copied off some site without really bothering with the guide on how to use it, and won't even make any changes to it for the current fractal and the current instabilities, and who won't ever bother with boss mechanics, or who leave because they keep going down because they refuse to react to any of the boss mechanics, and they wanted to get carried in quick 5-7 min run on each fractal, and the party has to constantly keep opening LFGs to replace the leavers.

> > >

> > > No, thanks. Better safe than sorry.

> >

> > Tanky gear wont guarantee or even raise the chance of survival.

> > Glass cannon meta gear and build doesnt mean more wipes.

> >

> > Bad players exist on both sides. Meta player who ignores dodges etc hoping the druid will outheal agony+last laugh is a thing, as is a "tanky" gear player who cant do enough dmg to the boss and makes the boss fight last longer (hence mistakes will be more likely to happen). If my "meta" group fails to kill Ooze, or wipes frequently enough, i excuse myself and I leave. If the group fails to deliver enough dps and drags fractals to 2 hour grinds, i excuse myself and leave, as well.

>

> A lot of mechanics should be ignored and outhealed by chrono / druid. It's simply part of the meta strat. It's the exact same as in raids and many mediocre pugs still don't grasp this.

>

> The better strategy is IGNORING greens on VG. The better strategy is NOT dodging slams but instead sharing aegis on gorse. Same on deimos. Same on many other bosses and plenty of other mechanics.

>

> If you join groups with high KP as support, ofcourse they'll expect you to give aegis / outheal certain mechanics. The DPS meta is literally all about skipping as much mechanics as possible to trivialize the encounter towards a DPS golem. Because in truth, doing this properly is both fast and quite easy.

>

> Yet 100 li raid pugs will still say "omg u no dodge !!!!!!! i r better than u" and the moment you notice your chrono is incapable; you should dodge. But frankly, goodluck doing burst openers if you're not going to get quickness at the start and you gotta dodge the first mechanics too. Only massively drops your burst :)

 

While i agree with what you say, the topic was about fractals, where in some cases you simple CANT outheal everything.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Etheri.5406" said:

> A lot of mechanics should be ignored and outhealed by chrono / druid. It's simply part of the meta strat. It's the exact same as in raids and many mediocre pugs still don't grasp this.

 

> If you join groups with high KP as support, ofcourse they'll expect you to give aegis / outheal certain mechanics. The DPS meta is literally all about skipping as much mechanics as possible to trivialize the encounter towards a DPS golem. Because in truth, doing this properly is both fast and quite easy.

 

> Yet 100 li raid pugs will still say "omg u no dodge !!!!!!! i r better than u" and the moment you notice your chrono is incapable; you should dodge. But frankly, goodluck doing burst openers if you're not going to get quickness at the start and you gotta dodge the first mechanics too. Only massively drops your burst :)

 

Good players know that and outhealing stuff in raids is much easier than in fractals. For example you can't ignore Social Awkwardness the whole time. 1-2 ticks, np, happens but if 2 players consistently stack into each other one or both of them are going down if they don't move away from each other. SA can't be outhealed over a longer period, it just doesn't work - not only by definition.

There are also other things that cannot be outhealed. Sometimes I'm stunned about weaver players eating every single aoe of Aartsariv in 100cm although it's only meteor shower that needs you to not move. But yeah, better blame the chrono or druid. Especially in pugs where you have no voice communication you have to care about your positioning and making clever decisions. I declare every dps player as trash if he doesn't know how to adapt and react to the basic mechanics in fractals. If I can do that, you should be able to as well as I'm not member of a top speed run guild.

And yes, even in raids, if you don't dodge and die it's your mistake unless your group hasn't made clear what attacks will be dealt with (for example gorse slam). You're literally trash if you join a pug, doesn't notice that you have no aegis and just hang around for your tunnel vision dps. That's my definition of being horrible in the game. Nobody cares about your benchmark numbers if you're constantly going down due to your own stupidity.

[Etheri.5406]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Etheri.5406" said:

> > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > > > > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > > > > Just start an LFG saying "No meta".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You will usually get better players who know the mechanics and do not need some druid spamming heals to keep them alive.

> > > > >

> > > > > That really made me laugh... You forgot the "/s" btw.

> > > > > The sort of players you'll usually get is responsible for runs lasting longer than an hour.

> > > >

> > > > I do not know what region you play with, or at what times you play, but at the times I play, in the region I play, I'd rather spend 10-20 minutes in each fractal because people focus on surviving over DPS than spend 30 because all the wipes by 'meta' players who think they are magically good just because they are using some build they copied off some site without really bothering with the guide on how to use it, and won't even make any changes to it for the current fractal and the current instabilities, and who won't ever bother with boss mechanics, or who leave because they keep going down because they refuse to react to any of the boss mechanics, and they wanted to get carried in quick 5-7 min run on each fractal, and the party has to constantly keep opening LFGs to replace the leavers.

> > > >

> > > > No, thanks. Better safe than sorry.

> > >

> > > Tanky gear wont guarantee or even raise the chance of survival.

> > > Glass cannon meta gear and build doesnt mean more wipes.

> > >

> > > Bad players exist on both sides. Meta player who ignores dodges etc hoping the druid will outheal agony+last laugh is a thing, as is a "tanky" gear player who cant do enough dmg to the boss and makes the boss fight last longer (hence mistakes will be more likely to happen). If my "meta" group fails to kill Ooze, or wipes frequently enough, i excuse myself and I leave. If the group fails to deliver enough dps and drags fractals to 2 hour grinds, i excuse myself and leave, as well.

> >

> > A lot of mechanics should be ignored and outhealed by chrono / druid. It's simply part of the meta strat. It's the exact same as in raids and many mediocre pugs still don't grasp this.

> >

> > The better strategy is IGNORING greens on VG. The better strategy is NOT dodging slams but instead sharing aegis on gorse. Same on deimos. Same on many other bosses and plenty of other mechanics.

> >

> > If you join groups with high KP as support, ofcourse they'll expect you to give aegis / outheal certain mechanics. The DPS meta is literally all about skipping as much mechanics as possible to trivialize the encounter towards a DPS golem. Because in truth, doing this properly is both fast and quite easy.

> >

> > Yet 100 li raid pugs will still say "omg u no dodge !!!!!!! i r better than u" and the moment you notice your chrono is incapable; you should dodge. But frankly, goodluck doing burst openers if you're not going to get quickness at the start and you gotta dodge the first mechanics too. Only massively drops your burst :)

>

> While i agree with what you say, the topic was about fractals, where in some cases you simple CANT outheal everything.

 

All I'm saying is the vast majority of "omagod these meta players can't even dodge !!!" are scrubs flaming other scrubs and both sides have no idea what they're talking about. Raids also have mechanics you can't ignore; doesn't stop us from ignoring the ones you can ignore.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > Just start an LFG saying "No meta".

> > >

> > > You will usually get better players who know the mechanics and do not need some druid spamming heals to keep them alive.

> >

> > That really made me laugh... You forgot the "/s" btw.

> > The sort of players you'll usually get is responsible for runs lasting longer than an hour.

>

> I do not know what region you play with, or at what times you play, but at the times I play, in the region I play, I'd rather spend 10-20 minutes in each fractal because people focus on surviving over DPS than spend 30 because all the wipes by 'meta' players who think they are magically good just because they are using some build they copied off some site without really bothering with the guide on how to use it, and won't even make any changes to it for the current fractal and the current instabilities, and who won't ever bother with boss mechanics, or who leave because they keep going down because they refuse to react to any of the boss mechanics, and they wanted to get carried in quick 5-7 min run on each fractal, and the party has to constantly keep opening LFGs to replace the leavers.

>

> No, thanks. Better safe than sorry.

 

You just have no idea how much safer a meta comp with competent players is. I've been on both sides. And there's zero chance I'm going back to the constant down-state clown fiesta of players "playing safe" by themselves instead of playing as a team.

[Etheri.5406]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > @"Etheri.5406" said:

> > A lot of mechanics should be ignored and outhealed by chrono / druid. It's simply part of the meta strat. It's the exact same as in raids and many mediocre pugs still don't grasp this.

>

> > If you join groups with high KP as support, ofcourse they'll expect you to give aegis / outheal certain mechanics. The DPS meta is literally all about skipping as much mechanics as possible to trivialize the encounter towards a DPS golem. Because in truth, doing this properly is both fast and quite easy.

>

> > Yet 100 li raid pugs will still say "omg u no dodge !!!!!!! i r better than u" and the moment you notice your chrono is incapable; you should dodge. But frankly, goodluck doing burst openers if you're not going to get quickness at the start and you gotta dodge the first mechanics too. Only massively drops your burst :)

>

> And yes, even in raids, if you don't dodge and die it's your mistake unless your group hasn't made clear what attacks will be dealt with (for example gorse slam). You're literally trash if you join a pug, doesn't notice that you have no aegis and just hang around for your tunnel vision dps.

 

I agree that not dodging when your group obviously won't supply aegis is still your fault. That said; there's limits to which I consider "just do the mechanic" and at which point i go alt F4. If i join random 150 li, I don't expect blocks. If I join 300+ li full clear; I expect the chronos and druids to actually do their jobs. Which includes providing aegis for various mechanics.

 

All i'm saying is "QQ the meta players didnt' dodge QQ" is BS when it's META to ignore plenty of mechanics. No; not all of them. But many.