Chasind.3128 Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Chasind.3128" said: > > What do you expect from the elementalist in PvP? Are they only meant for 1v1 or team fights? Both? > > What is your vision for elementalists in WvW? With the upcoming nerf to their only long ranged weapon, what do you hope for the elementalist? What will their role turn to? > > How about elementalists in PvE & Raids? > > > > What do you guys think about elementalist in its current state and soon to be future state? > > Please share your thoughts/ suggestions and opinions! > > Elementalist in PVP is supposed to be a meme. There are some support builds that kind of work. The problem is other builds are doing what the Elementalist does, but better. > I don't play Elementalist in WvW to comment on that. > Elementalists in more general PVe, like exploration and story instances was already suffering. Harder boss fights can be a pain as an Elementalist while they are a breeze for nearly every other profession out there. Now it will only become even harder, because reasons. > Elementalists in instanced PVE, Fractals and Raids will suffer because their rotation is more complicated than others, but I'm positive they will remain strong there. After all Elementalists shine when they have babysitters to revive them, heal them and buff them. And by shine I mean do good damage because that's all Elementalists are good for. > > It's sad really. Arenanet only balances around the Elementalist being with enough allies to keep them alive. While in any situation that you won't have such allies available, WvW roaming, most cases in PVP, solo story instances and so on Elementalists keep getting worse and worse. > > And because some Necromancer/Scourge will pop in, they always do when Elementalists get nerfed, quick reminder that Scourge is meta and Necromancer was meta, in nearly every aspect of the game outside Raids and high-end Fractals, while having the easiest time when going solo in any type of content. Well said, I couldn't put my finger on it but it does feel like ele does the best when there is a babysitter who does what ele does, just better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"Chasind.3128" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Chasind.3128" said: > > > What do you expect from the elementalist in PvP? Are they only meant for 1v1 or team fights? Both? > > > What is your vision for elementalists in WvW? With the upcoming nerf to their only long ranged weapon, what do you hope for the elementalist? What will their role turn to? > > > How about elementalists in PvE & Raids? > > > > > > What do you guys think about elementalist in its current state and soon to be future state? > > > Please share your thoughts/ suggestions and opinions! > > > > Elementalist in PVP is supposed to be a meme. There are some support builds that kind of work. The problem is other builds are doing what the Elementalist does, but better. > > I don't play Elementalist in WvW to comment on that. > > Elementalists in more general PVe, like exploration and story instances was already suffering. Harder boss fights can be a pain as an Elementalist while they are a breeze for nearly every other profession out there. Now it will only become even harder, because reasons. > > Elementalists in instanced PVE, Fractals and Raids will suffer because their rotation is more complicated than others, but I'm positive they will remain strong there. After all Elementalists shine when they have babysitters to revive them, heal them and buff them. And by shine I mean do good damage because that's all Elementalists are good for. > > > > It's sad really. Arenanet only balances around the Elementalist being with enough allies to keep them alive. While in any situation that you won't have such allies available, WvW roaming, most cases in PVP, solo story instances and so on Elementalists keep getting worse and worse. > > > > And because some Necromancer/Scourge will pop in, they always do when Elementalists get nerfed, quick reminder that Scourge is meta and Necromancer was meta, in nearly every aspect of the game outside Raids and high-end Fractals, while having the easiest time when going solo in any type of content. > > Well said, I couldn't put my finger on it but it does feel like ele does the best when there is a babysitter who does what ele does, just better > @"Chasind.3128" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Chasind.3128" said: > > > What do you expect from the elementalist in PvP? Are they only meant for 1v1 or team fights? Both? > > > What is your vision for elementalists in WvW? With the upcoming nerf to their only long ranged weapon, what do you hope for the elementalist? What will their role turn to? > > > How about elementalists in PvE & Raids? > > > > > > What do you guys think about elementalist in its current state and soon to be future state? > > > Please share your thoughts/ suggestions and opinions! > > > > Elementalist in PVP is supposed to be a meme. There are some support builds that kind of work. The problem is other builds are doing what the Elementalist does, but better. > > I don't play Elementalist in WvW to comment on that. > > Elementalists in more general PVe, like exploration and story instances was already suffering. Harder boss fights can be a pain as an Elementalist while they are a breeze for nearly every other profession out there. Now it will only become even harder, because reasons. > > Elementalists in instanced PVE, Fractals and Raids will suffer because their rotation is more complicated than others, but I'm positive they will remain strong there. After all Elementalists shine when they have babysitters to revive them, heal them and buff them. And by shine I mean do good damage because that's all Elementalists are good for. > > > > It's sad really. Arenanet only balances around the Elementalist being with enough allies to keep them alive. While in any situation that you won't have such allies available, WvW roaming, most cases in PVP, solo story instances and so on Elementalists keep getting worse and worse. > > > > And because some Necromancer/Scourge will pop in, they always do when Elementalists get nerfed, quick reminder that Scourge is meta and Necromancer was meta, in nearly every aspect of the game outside Raids and high-end Fractals, while having the easiest time when going solo in any type of content. > > Well said, I couldn't put my finger on it but it does feel like ele does the best when there is a babysitter who does what ele does, just better But...why must ele be reduced to this? The sustain is there when built for it...dunno why the player should be forced to play an unsuitable role better done by other specialized classes, who even decided that ele must be pocket dps bot for the rest? I am starting to like the direction the devs are taking with ele. Every weapon on ele has support/CC and dps option that display the hybrid nature of the class...but somehow the playerbase decided that ele must be full zerk no sustain DPS bot...you can't go against the design of the class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasind.3128 Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Chasind.3128" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Chasind.3128" said: > > > > What do you expect from the elementalist in PvP? Are they only meant for 1v1 or team fights? Both? > > > > What is your vision for elementalists in WvW? With the upcoming nerf to their only long ranged weapon, what do you hope for the elementalist? What will their role turn to? > > > > How about elementalists in PvE & Raids? > > > > > > > > What do you guys think about elementalist in its current state and soon to be future state? > > > > Please share your thoughts/ suggestions and opinions! > > > > > > Elementalist in PVP is supposed to be a meme. There are some support builds that kind of work. The problem is other builds are doing what the Elementalist does, but better. > > > I don't play Elementalist in WvW to comment on that. > > > Elementalists in more general PVe, like exploration and story instances was already suffering. Harder boss fights can be a pain as an Elementalist while they are a breeze for nearly every other profession out there. Now it will only become even harder, because reasons. > > > Elementalists in instanced PVE, Fractals and Raids will suffer because their rotation is more complicated than others, but I'm positive they will remain strong there. After all Elementalists shine when they have babysitters to revive them, heal them and buff them. And by shine I mean do good damage because that's all Elementalists are good for. > > > > > > It's sad really. Arenanet only balances around the Elementalist being with enough allies to keep them alive. While in any situation that you won't have such allies available, WvW roaming, most cases in PVP, solo story instances and so on Elementalists keep getting worse and worse. > > > > > > And because some Necromancer/Scourge will pop in, they always do when Elementalists get nerfed, quick reminder that Scourge is meta and Necromancer was meta, in nearly every aspect of the game outside Raids and high-end Fractals, while having the easiest time when going solo in any type of content. > > > > Well said, I couldn't put my finger on it but it does feel like ele does the best when there is a babysitter who does what ele does, just better > > > @"Chasind.3128" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Chasind.3128" said: > > > > What do you expect from the elementalist in PvP? Are they only meant for 1v1 or team fights? Both? > > > > What is your vision for elementalists in WvW? With the upcoming nerf to their only long ranged weapon, what do you hope for the elementalist? What will their role turn to? > > > > How about elementalists in PvE & Raids? > > > > > > > > What do you guys think about elementalist in its current state and soon to be future state? > > > > Please share your thoughts/ suggestions and opinions! > > > > > > Elementalist in PVP is supposed to be a meme. There are some support builds that kind of work. The problem is other builds are doing what the Elementalist does, but better. > > > I don't play Elementalist in WvW to comment on that. > > > Elementalists in more general PVe, like exploration and story instances was already suffering. Harder boss fights can be a pain as an Elementalist while they are a breeze for nearly every other profession out there. Now it will only become even harder, because reasons. > > > Elementalists in instanced PVE, Fractals and Raids will suffer because their rotation is more complicated than others, but I'm positive they will remain strong there. After all Elementalists shine when they have babysitters to revive them, heal them and buff them. And by shine I mean do good damage because that's all Elementalists are good for. > > > > > > It's sad really. Arenanet only balances around the Elementalist being with enough allies to keep them alive. While in any situation that you won't have such allies available, WvW roaming, most cases in PVP, solo story instances and so on Elementalists keep getting worse and worse. > > > > > > And because some Necromancer/Scourge will pop in, they always do when Elementalists get nerfed, quick reminder that Scourge is meta and Necromancer was meta, in nearly every aspect of the game outside Raids and high-end Fractals, while having the easiest time when going solo in any type of content. > > > > Well said, I couldn't put my finger on it but it does feel like ele does the best when there is a babysitter who does what ele does, just better > > But...why must ele be reduced to this? The sustain is there when built for it...dunno why the player should be forced to play an unsuitable role better done by other specialized classes, who even decided that ele must be pocket dps bot for the rest? I am starting to like the direction the devs are taking with ele. > > Every weapon on ele has support/CC and dps option that display the hybrid nature of the class...but somehow the playerbase decided that ele must be full zerk no sustain DPS bot...you can't go against the design of the class Probably decided to go strictly dps because most things to kill them, take a certain about of dps over time. Like raids, when the boss has the berserk mode. if you lack the dps, you're not completing the raid and ele has some of the highest dps. The playerbase didn't build the game or mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPuppy.8970 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 "What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack. " So they said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 > @"MyPuppy.8970" said: > "What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack. " > > So they said. To be fair, that used to be true. It just needs to be updated to read "They lack physical toughness and have nothing to show for it. They have many skills that also don't do much." :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazySummer.2568 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 the current balance team clearly envisioned elementalist to be a trash jack of all trades master of none that's only useful in open world pve aka afk fashion wars rp. Meanwhile there's their favorite class named mesmer that's the true versatile class and can be made to be top tier everywhere if you just changed your build. Power dps, condi dps, roamer, tank, support, you name it lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekfan.3179 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I remember a dev once saying that their vision for the ele was to be hard to master but rewarding once you do. This dev seems to be no longer a part of the team. Right now the dps of the ele isn't rewarding, probably not even worth the effort, considering other professions can dish out the same damage combined with higher survivability. The warrior dishes out about the same dps as the nerfed ele, can provide banners with a bit of dps-loss, is one of the soldier classes with heavy armor and among those the one with the biggest hp-pool. Even the rotation of the warrior is easier. It wouldn't be that bad if the ele had a viable and unique support-role, aside from long-range heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepster.4275 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Ele balance team is clearly out of its mind... xD Never seen anything this riddiculus some of my friends said its time to have a break from this till the next expansion comes I mean if we take the old weaver rota it was kind of hard to pull out in raids, and now even with its easier rotation(what still needs some minor skill and class knowledge) still doing less DPS than a class with 5 F*****G button rotation, never was a big weaver enthusiast but this kind of treatment for weaver is just... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I am not a dps player in instanced content, but Anet clearly lost all reasonable minds when it comes to balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Fire.6870 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 The hope dies last but this is ..... in the end it would been better to skip those changes and: - rebalance the traits lines of the Ele if you must but don't take away it dps - change the mechanic of Scourges epidemic so it can do dmg in all endcontent but not too much but also not force him out. - Deadeye also need a similar overwork but not in a way it nerfs other built too much. - WvW needs a better reward system and rewards also new siege gear and not focusing alone on Zerg fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I think ice spike is staff eles best dmg spell take a step back and think about that and what anet wants ele to be lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme.3602 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > I think ice spike is staff eles best dmg spell take a step back and think about that and what anet wants ele to be lol. Don't say that or it'll get nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsleep.7839 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 They don't have goals silly, they design what they think that looks cool, implement it in whatever state and balance after like someone trying to operate a heart using an axe. This isn't limited to Elementalist or even professions in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 ANet should do like SC in their discord and delete this section of the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luca.4670 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 "Elemementalist" is clearly their plan, at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foozlesprite.8051 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"tekfan.3179" said: > I remember a dev once saying that their vision for the ele was to be hard to master but rewarding once you do. This dev seems to be no longer a part of the team. This happened to a lot of their 'visions' that were supposed to make the game unique, unfortunately. With the advent of raids and elite specs a lot of their core tenets for the game went kaput. The idea was to have a game where you didn't have the "holy trinity" of tank, DPS, healer. Some classes had higher health pools, some had higher damage, but it wasn't a hugely significant difference. There were niches, but you could typically do other things while fulfilling that niche. (Remember when people were happy to get a core ele with a staff b/c they needed heals? And you could also do decent damage at the same time? That was the closest thing to a healer meta there was!) Edit: a friend reminded me that there was an early-game comment from the devs about taking five elementalists into a dungeon to show that you weren't pigeonholed into a role, and that elementalists were an especially good example of this because of attunements. Then raids - and the druid & chronomancer especially - happened. Ever since then, their vision of all classes having multiple viable builds was thrown out the window for almost any but open-world and story players. In raids, mid+ fractals, PvP, and WvW, there's always a meta spec now, and if you're not playing it then you're gonna get yelled at (even if you're doing your job) **or** not be able to do your job at all. For ele, the pigeonholed role now is 'DPS,' and since they're not balancing burst v. sustained DPS well with their updates, ele isn't the shining example of that role any more. If Anet had kept up their initial stance that the elementalist was flexible rather than just changing it to be more DPS-oriented over time, there wouldn't be as big of an outcry over nerfing one aspect of them because they would still have other niches they could fill well. It's resulted in people being angry at build changes that touch the meta at all, and staff ele has been the closest thing to the meta since...basically the start of the game. IMO that _does_ mean it (or other weapons) should be _tweaked_ so people are more likely to play the others, but any way you do it people are gonna complain at this point, especially when it starts with staff nerfs to bring it down to more of the level of the others. It's been entrenched as _the_ ele weapon by now, so people cling to it. I'd rather them bring other weapons up to par so they're used more often, then balance all the weapons around each other when the dust settles and they see how they're being used. If they improved scepter/focus for example, and people were still using almost entirely staffs in all their builds like they do now, there would be need for a serious look at further balance changes (and possibly some justified nerfs at that point, whether to staff or the other weapon). Bit of a rambly tangent, I suppose, but tl;dr I agree with the sentiment that they've departed from their vision quite a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasind.3128 Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"foozlesprite.8051" said: > > @"tekfan.3179" said: > > I remember a dev once saying that their vision for the ele was to be hard to master but rewarding once you do. This dev seems to be no longer a part of the team. > > This happened to a lot of their 'visions' that were supposed to make the game unique, unfortunately. With the advent of raids and elite specs a lot of their core tenets for the game went kaput. The idea was to have a game where you didn't have the "holy trinity" of tank, DPS, healer. Some classes had higher health pools, some had higher damage, but it wasn't a hugely significant difference. There were niches, but you could typically do other things while fulfilling that niche. (Remember when people were happy to get a core ele with a staff b/c they needed heals? And you could also do decent damage at the same time? That was the closest thing to a healer meta there was!) Edit: a friend reminded me that there was an early-game comment from the devs about taking five elementalists into a dungeon to show that you weren't pigeonholed into a role, and that elementalists were an especially good example of this because of attunements. > > Then raids - and the druid & chronomancer especially - happened. Ever since then, their vision of all classes having multiple viable builds was thrown out the window for almost any but open-world and story players. In raids, mid+ fractals, PvP, and WvW, there's always a meta spec now, and if you're not playing it then you're gonna get yelled at (even if you're doing your job) **or** not be able to do your job at all. For ele, the pigeonholed role now is 'DPS,' and since they're not balancing burst v. sustained DPS well with their updates, ele isn't the shining example of that role any more. If Anet had kept up their initial stance that the elementalist was flexible rather than just changing it to be more DPS-oriented over time, there wouldn't be as big of an outcry over nerfing one aspect of them because they would still have other niches they could fill well. > > It's resulted in people being angry at build changes that touch the meta at all, and staff ele has been the closest thing to the meta since...basically the start of the game. IMO that _does_ mean it (or other weapons) should be _tweaked_ so people are more likely to play the others, but any way you do it people are gonna complain at this point, especially when it starts with staff nerfs to bring it down to more of the level of the others. It's been entrenched as _the_ ele weapon by now, so people cling to it. I'd rather them bring other weapons up to par so they're used more often, then balance all the weapons around each other when the dust settles and they see how they're being used. If they improved scepter/focus for example, and people were still using almost entirely staffs in all their builds like they do now, there would be need for a serious look at further balance changes (and possibly some justified nerfs at that point, whether to staff or the other weapon). > > Bit of a rambly tangent, I suppose, but tl;dr I agree with the sentiment that they've departed from their vision quite a lot. Thank you for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 The ele designer obviously thinks class balance is still in 2004 where its all about rolling your face over a key rotation over and over to get top deepeeesss on a meter and all players want are to be glass cannon deepeeesss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowHawk.3615 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > I think ice spike is staff eles best dmg spell take a step back and think about that and what anet wants ele to be lol. don't think they really know. every class does what ele does but 50% better than ele at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowHawk.3615 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Chasind.3128" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Chasind.3128" said: > > > > What do you expect from the elementalist in PvP? Are they only meant for 1v1 or team fights? Both? > > > > What is your vision for elementalists in WvW? With the upcoming nerf to their only long ranged weapon, what do you hope for the elementalist? What will their role turn to? > > > > How about elementalists in PvE & Raids? > > > > > > > > What do you guys think about elementalist in its current state and soon to be future state? > > > > Please share your thoughts/ suggestions and opinions! > > > > > > Elementalist in PVP is supposed to be a meme. There are some support builds that kind of work. The problem is other builds are doing what the Elementalist does, but better. > > > I don't play Elementalist in WvW to comment on that. > > > Elementalists in more general PVe, like exploration and story instances was already suffering. Harder boss fights can be a pain as an Elementalist while they are a breeze for nearly every other profession out there. Now it will only become even harder, because reasons. > > > Elementalists in instanced PVE, Fractals and Raids will suffer because their rotation is more complicated than others, but I'm positive they will remain strong there. After all Elementalists shine when they have babysitters to revive them, heal them and buff them. And by shine I mean do good damage because that's all Elementalists are good for. > > > > > > It's sad really. Arenanet only balances around the Elementalist being with enough allies to keep them alive. While in any situation that you won't have such allies available, WvW roaming, most cases in PVP, solo story instances and so on Elementalists keep getting worse and worse. > > > > > > And because some Necromancer/Scourge will pop in, they always do when Elementalists get nerfed, quick reminder that Scourge is meta and Necromancer was meta, in nearly every aspect of the game outside Raids and high-end Fractals, while having the easiest time when going solo in any type of content. > > > > Well said, I couldn't put my finger on it but it does feel like ele does the best when there is a babysitter who does what ele does, just better > > > @"Chasind.3128" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Chasind.3128" said: > > > > What do you expect from the elementalist in PvP? Are they only meant for 1v1 or team fights? Both? > > > > What is your vision for elementalists in WvW? With the upcoming nerf to their only long ranged weapon, what do you hope for the elementalist? What will their role turn to? > > > > How about elementalists in PvE & Raids? > > > > > > > > What do you guys think about elementalist in its current state and soon to be future state? > > > > Please share your thoughts/ suggestions and opinions! > > > > > > Elementalist in PVP is supposed to be a meme. There are some support builds that kind of work. The problem is other builds are doing what the Elementalist does, but better. > > > I don't play Elementalist in WvW to comment on that. > > > Elementalists in more general PVe, like exploration and story instances was already suffering. Harder boss fights can be a pain as an Elementalist while they are a breeze for nearly every other profession out there. Now it will only become even harder, because reasons. > > > Elementalists in instanced PVE, Fractals and Raids will suffer because their rotation is more complicated than others, but I'm positive they will remain strong there. After all Elementalists shine when they have babysitters to revive them, heal them and buff them. And by shine I mean do good damage because that's all Elementalists are good for. > > > > > > It's sad really. Arenanet only balances around the Elementalist being with enough allies to keep them alive. While in any situation that you won't have such allies available, WvW roaming, most cases in PVP, solo story instances and so on Elementalists keep getting worse and worse. > > > > > > And because some Necromancer/Scourge will pop in, they always do when Elementalists get nerfed, quick reminder that Scourge is meta and Necromancer was meta, in nearly every aspect of the game outside Raids and high-end Fractals, while having the easiest time when going solo in any type of content. > > > > Well said, I couldn't put my finger on it but it does feel like ele does the best when there is a babysitter who does what ele does, just better > > But...why must ele be reduced to this? The sustain is there when built for it...dunno why the player should be forced to play an unsuitable role better done by other specialized classes, who even decided that ele must be pocket dps bot for the rest? I am starting to like the direction the devs are taking with ele. > > Every weapon on ele has support/CC and dps option that display the hybrid nature of the class...but somehow the playerbase decided that ele must be full zerk no sustain DPS bot...you can't go against the design of the class The thing is with elementalist; everything they do is done better by another class the only thing they had in their corner was DPS, anet made them that way after the true hybrid ele died after celestial nerf. *insert giorgio tsoukalos meme here* "Balance" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowHawk.3615 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"foozlesprite.8051" said: > > @"tekfan.3179" said: > > I remember a dev once saying that their vision for the ele was to be hard to master but rewarding once you do. This dev seems to be no longer a part of the team. > > This happened to a lot of their 'visions' that were supposed to make the game unique, unfortunately. With the advent of raids and elite specs a lot of their core tenets for the game went kaput. The idea was to have a game where you didn't have the "holy trinity" of tank, DPS, healer. Some classes had higher health pools, some had higher damage, but it wasn't a hugely significant difference. There were niches, but you could typically do other things while fulfilling that niche. (Remember when people were happy to get a core ele with a staff b/c they needed heals? And you could also do decent damage at the same time? That was the closest thing to a healer meta there was!) Edit: a friend reminded me that there was an early-game comment from the devs about taking five elementalists into a dungeon to show that you weren't pigeonholed into a role, and that elementalists were an especially good example of this because of attunements. > > Then raids - and the druid & chronomancer especially - happened. Ever since then, their vision of all classes having multiple viable builds was thrown out the window for almost any but open-world and story players. In raids, mid+ fractals, PvP, and WvW, there's always a meta spec now, and if you're not playing it then you're gonna get yelled at (even if you're doing your job) **or** not be able to do your job at all. For ele, the pigeonholed role now is 'DPS,' and since they're not balancing burst v. sustained DPS well with their updates, ele isn't the shining example of that role any more. If Anet had kept up their initial stance that the elementalist was flexible rather than just changing it to be more DPS-oriented over time, there wouldn't be as big of an outcry over nerfing one aspect of them because they would still have other niches they could fill well. > > It's resulted in people being angry at build changes that touch the meta at all, and staff ele has been the closest thing to the meta since...basically the start of the game. IMO that _does_ mean it (or other weapons) should be _tweaked_ so people are more likely to play the others, but any way you do it people are gonna complain at this point, especially when it starts with staff nerfs to bring it down to more of the level of the others. It's been entrenched as _the_ ele weapon by now, so people cling to it. I'd rather them bring other weapons up to par so they're used more often, then balance all the weapons around each other when the dust settles and they see how they're being used. If they improved scepter/focus for example, and people were still using almost entirely staffs in all their builds like they do now, there would be need for a serious look at further balance changes (and possibly some justified nerfs at that point, whether to staff or the other weapon). > > Bit of a rambly tangent, I suppose, but tl;dr I agree with the sentiment that they've departed from their vision quite a lot. I prefer to play sword weaver bc it's fun as hell and it has the potential to be dps/condi/tank hybrid however, every other class does those exact things better which brings up the point "why do we need a hybrid weaver when we have a scourge, chrono, druid or firebrand? those classes make it so that sword weaver is pointless unless you're killing a brainless mob in PvE or a very squishy player 1v1 in WvW . however i want the same for core ele and tempest i really like tempest for what it is, but the long cooldowns don't make up for the lack of other things. I'm agitated at the ele nerf due to the fact that I mained ele in WvW raids and now i'm being asked to switch to something else, a firebrand. the most braindead class on the face of Tyria. Like their is no substitute to make up for the low HP pool and massive DPS loss and that's not balance. Do I agree with ele being pushed onto staff over time as it's only reason for living? No. as I stated before i love sword, but the fact that DPS gets you the win at the end of the day. But I agree with you 100% It's very well put and well said. I remember the good ol' days of being able to do it all. RIP. I know they will do something good for ele in the long run. But it might be a long time before they figure out what it might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foozlesprite.8051 Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 > @"SnowHawk.3615" said: >> @"foozlesprite.8051" said: >> (snip) > I prefer to play sword weaver bc it's fun as hell and it has the potential to be dps/condi/tank hybrid however, every other class does those exact things better which brings up the point "why do we need a hybrid weaver when we have a scourge, chrono, druid or firebrand? those classes make it so that sword weaver is pointless unless you're killing a brainless mob in PvE or a very squishy player 1v1 in WvW . however i want the same for core ele and tempest i really like tempest for what it is, but the long cooldowns don't make up for the lack of other things. I'm agitated at the ele nerf due to the fact that I mained ele in WvW raids and now i'm being asked to switch to something else, a firebrand. the most braindead class on the face of Tyria. Like their is no substitute to make up for the low HP pool and massive DPS loss and that's not balance. Do I agree with ele being pushed onto staff over time as it's only reason for living? No. as I stated before i love sword, but the fact that DPS gets you the win at the end of the day. > But I agree with you 100% It's very well put and well said. I remember the good ol' days of being able to do it all. RIP. > I know they will do something good for ele in the long run. But it might be a long time before they figure out what it might be. I mostly just play ele in PvE with the occasional foray into WvW because of the balance/vision changes I mentioned earlier, but if I was gonna do PvP I would definitely bring another class. In open-world nobody else gets a say in what I do, so I'm free to just have fun while playing the game (le gasp). To that end, I play sword/dagger because I'm mobile, I'm versatile, and I have single target and AOE damage available. The biggest drawback I've seen to it is that our one ranged option is basically Ice Bow. (Theoretically I'd be okay without a ranged option, but phase-shift on bounties makes that impossible unless you want to stand back and twiddle your thumbs doing nothing for 1/4 of the fight.) But yeah. Certain specializations filling the holy trinity roles has basically shifted the mentality (and the reality) towards 'holy trinity role or useless' in several content modes. Restoring hybrid viability would be nice for _all_ classes, not just ele, but at this point that would require a pretty big update across multiple classes and specs. (And I'm sorry you're being pushed into other classes/roles, that really sucks.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 > @"foozlesprite.8051" said: (And I'm sorry you're being pushed into other classes/roles, that really sucks.) That's a first usually ele mains thrive on the tears of classes that get neutered and tell people to git gud or re-roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foozlesprite.8051 Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"foozlesprite.8051" said: (And I'm sorry you're being pushed into other classes/roles, that really sucks.) > > That's a first usually ele mains thrive on the tears of classes that get neutered and tell people to git gud or re-roll. > Hah. I basically just feel bad for anyone of any class that gets pushed into playing something they don't enjoy. It _is_ a game, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWilder.6923 Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 I believe Anet want ele players to switch other professions. Its time to move on. Then they are going to nerf other classes too etc ... So that all players know all the professions then players got enough, eventually they will move on to other games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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