I miss new character class excitement

[AncientYs.8613]

If you miss it that much you probably should consider to create that character "class" again in order to re-excite yourself.

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> I had forgotten about GW1 build crafting. I REALLY miss that. Maybe that's part of why especs are falling short for me. Not free to choose any weapon, not free to access skills from other professions, not free to choose the entire skill bar, and the thought of never getting a new class. It probably is just that GW1 spoiled me too much. To be fair I also remember the large amount of useless skills because of balance issues.

 

I think a lot of people overlook how important this is in a game like GW2, and is probably the most key way that GW2 regressed from GW1. I can't help but feel it would be a lot more popular than it is if characters weren't put on rails so much and you had a lot more of a free form way to customize your toons like in GW1.

 

It's critically important to have lots of ways to design and customize your character ESPECIALLY in a game that tries to focus on horizontal progression over vertical progression.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

I sorta agree with you. One problem I have is every elite spec is stand alone so it is just a core+, but I can't combine new skills from HoT and PoF which makes the elite specs sorta seem shallow and it limits the ways in which the elite specs can be used.

 

My second issue is the inclusion of new weapons, but them only being used in one spec and most likely only one build. This is annoying because if a class gets a weapon I really like in its elite spec, well I gotta use the spec to use the weapon. I can't use the weapon and build around it utilizing all my specs, I'm stuck in the elite spec shoe-horn. This is also annoying when you want to build a legendary weapon for an elite spec but wonder if its worth it because you can only use the weapon in one build.

 

My third issue is about the shallow implementation of different archetypes with core/elite specs. Since I think elite specs were not originially planned with the creation of classes, it causes some thematic issues for me. Take engineer for example, it's core class is a conglomeration of different "tech" without a real focus. My problem with this is that things like elixers and grenades will probably never get an elite spec focused around them and thus a bomber elite spec will probably never be a thing, and the core class doesn't really focus or flesh out. Instead were stuck with things like scrapper which doesn't really have an identity besides being an engi with a hammer. They did better with the second spec, holosmith, but that was because they gave it a really powerful "shroud" like ability that basically makes it a different class altogether. And then there is the deadeye spec for thief which is thematically cool, but doesn't really work as well as it could. Why? well the whole core of the class is based around mobility and then you get one spec and trait line that totally opposes the rest of the class. So basically when playing a deadeye it's like your playing one third of a class. When you play DE you arent playing a super skilled sniper who patiently hunts his prey, you are playing a jumpy, dodgy thief who now has a rifle but not the foundation to make the playstyle work.

 

And then other opinioned based issues occur with themes. Lets talk about the expanison classes of gw1, but more specifically the ritualist. They tried to implement specific aspects of ritualists within the game like engi turrets to act like ritualist spirits, guard spirit weapons embodies the themes of rit spirit weapons, revenant with the thematic blindfold, and then Kalla with the spirit spamming again. The problem is that they still haven't made a ritualist so all these little efforts they keep making to appeal to people who wanted the ritualist aren't working. I think theyre may be similar feelings about the paragon and dervish, but ritualist is the one I see most.

 

TL;DR I feel some awesome class archetypes are getting butchered because of the limitations and shallowness of elite specs. And I think the elite spec weapons should be a core unlock so players can build around cool new weapons.

[Tachenon.5270]

> @"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said:

> > @"Tachenon.5270" said:

> > And! -- the abolition of the outdated and unimaginatively D&D 1st ed-ish weapon-profession restrictions. It's just so Gygaxian! And not in a fun way...

>

> > @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> > Not free to choose any weapon...

>

> Genuine question: if any profession could choose any weapon, how would you (or anyone else) envisage that working, given that each profession has unique weapon skills? Would that still be the case? (Which would lead to a huge increase in the number of weapon skills - 264* for Elementalist!) Or would there be a generic set of weapon skills for each weapon a profession can't currently use? Or something else?

>

> This isn't meant to be a criticism, by the way - especially since I agree that theorycrafting was a lot more fun in GW1, in large part because of the flexibility of the skill system.

>

> *This is counting terrestrial skills only, ignoring Weaver dual attacks, and assuming that dual wielding would be allowed for main hand weapons except Sceptre.

 

Well, the most efficacious thing to do would be to update the original game's graphics and add the ability to jump (not just as an emote), but since that's not likely to happen any time soon, I would advocate filling in the weapon gaps by the addition of profession-specific weapon skills for all the weapons currently unavailable to all professions. All professions could keep their current unique weapon skills, while those professions suffering from weapon deprivation would gain new unique weapon skills for all the weapons previously unavailable to them. Here's an example of how it might work:

 

Warrior with Dual Scepters

 

Main-hand Scepter

 

1. Tickle Tickle -- Strike your foe with your scepter, imparting magical zaps with each hit.

2. Spray and Pray -- Dodge backward while firing multiple bolts of magical energy in an arc before you.

3. BLEEP! -- Yell "BLEEP!" and throw your scepter at your foe. Does double damage if your last attack missed or was blocked.

 

Offhand Scepter

 

4. Psych! -- Brandish your main-hand weapon in a threatening manner, then whack your foe with your scepter.

5. Bang Zoom! -- Charge your main hand weapon with magical energy from your scepter, to send your opponent flying.

 

If using dual scepters:

 

5. Double Whammy -- Jab your opponent with both scepters, initiating a feedback loop of magical energy to send your opponent flying.

 

An engineer wielding dual scepters would of course have more engineer-y scepter skills. I'll leave that for someone else to envisage.

[Biff.5312]

I think there's already too many, if you factor in the elite specs. Most of them just make a profession seem to bleed into areas better left to another profession. It's all just an excuse to force you to re-gear.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

I miss excitement as a whole. Its something that does not happen in this game for a very very long time. I think they're aiming for staleness instead of excitement. And they've achieved that greatly.

[Nopesarenotforme.5190]

> @"Tachenon.5270" said:

> > @"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said:

> > > @"Tachenon.5270" said:

> > > And! -- the abolition of the outdated and unimaginatively D&D 1st ed-ish weapon-profession restrictions. It's just so Gygaxian! And not in a fun way...

> >

> > > @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> > > Not free to choose any weapon...

> >

> > Genuine question: if any profession could choose any weapon, how would you (or anyone else) envisage that working, given that each profession has unique weapon skills? Would that still be the case? (Which would lead to a huge increase in the number of weapon skills - 264* for Elementalist!) Or would there be a generic set of weapon skills for each weapon a profession can't currently use? Or something else?

> >

> > This isn't meant to be a criticism, by the way - especially since I agree that theorycrafting was a lot more fun in GW1, in large part because of the flexibility of the skill system.

> >

> > *This is counting terrestrial skills only, ignoring Weaver dual attacks, and assuming that dual wielding would be allowed for main hand weapons except Sceptre.

>

> Well, the most efficacious thing to do would be to update the original game's graphics and add the ability to jump (not just as an emote), but since that's not likely to happen any time soon, I would advocate filling in the weapon gaps by the addition of profession-specific weapon skills for all the weapons currently unavailable to all professions. All professions could keep their current unique weapon skills, while those professions suffering from weapon deprivation would gain new unique weapon skills for all the weapons previously unavailable to them. Here's an example of how it might work:

>

> Warrior with Dual Scepters

>

> Main-hand Scepter

>

> 1. Tickle Tickle -- Strike your foe with your scepter, imparting magical zaps with each hit.

> 2. Spray and Pray -- Dodge backward while firing multiple bolts of magical energy in an arc before you.

> 3. BLEEP! -- Yell "BLEEP!" and throw your scepter at your foe. Does double damage if your last attack missed or was blocked.

>

> Offhand Scepter

>

> 4. Psych! -- Brandish your main-hand weapon in a threatening manner, then whack your foe with your scepter.

> 5. Bang Zoom! -- Charge your main hand weapon with magical energy from your scepter, to send your opponent flying.

>

> If using dual scepters:

>

> 5. Double Whammy -- Jab your opponent with both scepters, initiating a feedback loop of magical energy to send your opponent flying.

>

> An engineer wielding dual scepters would of course have more engineer-y scepter skills. I'll leave that for someone else to envisage.

 

I laughed way too hard from this

[Ephemiel.5694]

> @"Tachenon.5270" said:

> 'Scuse me whilst I opine: Elite specs are patches that don't quite cover the holes in the jeans they are supposed to be patching.

>

> In the original Guild Wars we could essentially make our own elite specs at will by using whatever weapons, skills, and secondary professions we saw fit. Want a petless ranger that uses a scepter and a shield and runs around yelling at everybody? Ranger/Paragon + truncheon and shield + skills + whatever clever name you can think of for it. River Van Ranger. Unfortunately, that was one of many things I (personally) loved about Guild Wars that for whatever reason didn't I make the transition to GW2.

>

> So anyway, I'd rather have fun and exiting new professions than new elites, which are to me a sad reminder of past glories passed by. I'd also like to see the return of all the old professions. And! -- the abolition of the outdated and unimaginatively D&D 1st ed-ish weapon-profession restrictions. It's just so Gygaxian! And not in a fun way...

 

THAT is one of GW2's biggest mistakes. They didn't add the subclass system from GW1, but instead made an extremely broken and non-sensical trait system that tries so hard and fails to emulate the subclass system, Specializations are the biggest proof of this when most of them are a very poor attempt at giving another profession's "feel and style" to them [spellbreaker being considered "Mesmer through the eyes of a Warrior" or Reaper very clearly being a Warrior with dark magic, Dragonhunter being a Guardian with Ranger's longbow and traps, etc].

 

Before, we could make our own true character and build and make it work, Wanted a petless Ranger with staff? You could do it. Wanted a magical Assassin with minions? Could be done. Want a Mesmer that can yell at people and fill them with arrows? Easy.

 

Here? There's no logic to the specs [Marksmanship having Clarion Bond? Why? That's a perfect Beast Mastery trait, why is it in Marksmanship?] and every specialization added makes it even worse, especially when a LOT of the traits are simply useless compared to others [why would any Warrior trying to do damage not take Strength for Peak Performance and Berserker's Power [hilarious name when they got a CONDITION spec named Berserker now]?

 

Out of the bunch of stuff this game needs, one of the main things should be a complete rework of the trait system, change all the useless traits, place some of them in a different trait tree [like Clarion Bond] and give them a true identity, rather than the current mishmash of talents of that most of them have.

[Super Hayes.6890]

> @"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said:

 

> Genuine question: if any profession could choose any weapon, how would you (or anyone else) envisage that working, given that each profession has unique weapon skills? Would that still be the case? (Which would lead to a huge increase in the number of weapon skills - 264* for Elementalist!) Or would there be a generic set of weapon skills for each weapon a profession can't currently use? Or something else?

>

 

That is what I liked about GW1 since you could choose all your skills. Much harder to implement in GW2. I have found myself asking before especs, however, why can't my warrior pick up a staff and hit something with it. On the same train of thought why can't I use my fists if I don't have a weapon?

 

Perhaps there could be a set of base skills for each weapon when used by a class that can't normally use them that is the same for each class that can't use them.

 

If especs are the way of the future, as it is pretty clear they are, why not have a wave of "elite secondary profession" specializations. For example, every class gets and elite spec for each playable class in GW2. My warrior could decide to use the ranger elite spec and gain different skills on his longbow or use of the shortbow. My mesmer would also gain access to the same elite spec and maybe the differences are purely in the animations. Maybe each class gets a different variation of a given class but they all gain access to that same class as an espec.

 

I'm just spit balling. All of these ideas are difficult to implement. I won't stop being hopeful.

 

[DeanBB.4268]

I don't see how a new profession is better than new elite specs. With a new profession, you would have to create a brand new character and have nothing unlocked on the map, story, etc. Sure, you may need new armor and/or weapons, or perhaps just accessories, whatever. A new character would need all new gear no matter what. And you can't tell me, for example, that a Renegade doesn't play different than a Revenant or Herald.

 

I'll take new elite specs over new professions any day.

 

PS - getting really sick of GW1 nostalgia. I played it for the duration as well, but this is a new game, so get over it.

[Super Hayes.6890]

> @"DeanBB.4268" said:

 

> PS - getting really sick of GW1 nostalgia. I played it for the duration as well, but this is a new game, so get over it.

 

Back off! I asked for opinions not attacks. Your views are welcome for the purpose of discussion but refrain from posting in my discussion if something about it annoys you.

[Erasculio.2914]

I agree completely with the OP.

 

New specializations are simply too shallow. They do not allow ArenaNet to add any new significant mechanic, simply because a handful of new skills are not enough to convey any kind of deep addition to the game.

 

When Paragons were announced in the original Guild Wars, a lot of people said they were pointless, since they were just warriors who used a lot of shouts. Those people were proved wrong when Nightfall was actually released, and everyone saw how Paragons had a lot of unique mechanics, from echoes to refrains to chants and etc.

 

If we had the same specialization system back then, Paragons would have been just warriors using a lot of shouts. The specialization system doesn't have enough room for introducing as many new mechanics as a brand new profession does.

[Airdive.2613]

> @"Erasculio.2914" said:

> New specializations are simply too shallow. They do not allow ArenaNet to add any new significant mechanic, simply because a handful of new skills are not enough to convey any kind of deep addition to the game.

 

But but, elite specializations are full of significant mechanics. You have the option to play each one similarly to your core profession, but there's a whole new playstyle there if you fully embrace the specialization.

 

Mesmer: chronomancer translates the playstyle from the bursty one to the rotation-based where the more skills are on cooldown, the more you benefit from alacrity, with the downside of different skills often not being available for a quick on-demand burst. Mirage's dodge alone makes you rethink the whole profession.

 

Engineer: holosmith turns your toolbelt into something entirely different and adds the heat mechanic to play around.

 

Necromancer: both reaper and scourge change your shroud skills completely.

 

Thief: deadeye changes your stolen skills, your stealth attacks, introduces malice as a new mechanic.

 

Guardian: both elites completely change your virtues.

 

Elementalist: weaver, obviously.

 

Ranger: druid introduces a whole new layer of gameplay with its celestial avatar mechanic.

 

Elite specializations allow for playstyles very different from core ones if you're ready to embrace them, and they often add significant mechanics, too. It would be less healthy to make a new profession just for it to have 6 new unique skills and the rest of the same old ones with different visuals (which is bound to happen anyway).

[Erasculio.2914]

> @"Airdive.2613" said:

> Elite specializations allow for playstyles very different from core ones

 

As much as a given weapon is different from the other ones within the same profession.

 

It doesn't really add anything more different than that, because it has no room for anything more.

 

Meanwhile, a new profession could introduce multiple new mechanics, with unique interactions between each other.

 

Specializations are so restricted that they cannot even affect one another - nothing in the weaver specialization changes anything about the tempest, nor the other way around. They all begin from the same point, instead of adding to each other.

 

 

[Airdive.2613]

> @"Erasculio.2914" said:

> > @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > Elite specializations allow for playstyles very different from core ones

>

> As much as a given weapon is different from the other ones within the same profession.

 

Not really. They also synergize differently with core skills.

Druid, for example, utilizes multi-hit skills (path of scars) and multi-proc heals (such as signet of renewal) to build celestial energy in ways you'd never use otherwise.

Mirage lets you chain skills that would normally be too dangerous to chain back to back.

Herald makes your energy management that much more complex.

 

The existing professions are unique, and elite specializations are unique if you're willing to play them to their potential. Just because the aesthetics are the same, doesn't mean they play the same way.

[Hot Boy.7138]

i like elite specs a lot. I wish they'd release new elite specs once a year, instead of once every xpac. I think that would keep the hype train going infinitely

[Chasind.3128]

Anet over hypes things. The festival of the four winds was incredibly interesting and fun when it 1st came to gw2. The next few times it had not changed or anything and was no longer fun. Halloween, used to be very fun- the entirety of Old Lion's Arch (Before scarlet) would be decorated for the event. Now only 30% of it is and there is nothing else interesting, it brings nothing new. Wintersday, used to be a gorgeous event where all of lion's arch was covered in powdered snow and the mystic forge was a giant snow-globe and you could see toys all in it. It was the center of old lion's arch and something to really behold. Now, it's been forced into a human city in a small district of Divinity's Reach. It's really forgetful and I don't do it anymore.

 

**New classes are also over-hyped.**

I say this because they make a new spec incredible OP, then nerf it months later.

They do this so you'll buy their expac so you too, can be one of the OP. I've stopped investing into GW2 only because I do not feel I'm getting my money's worth. Endgame feels based around the gem store & cosmetics.

 

I miss the feeling I would get playing gw2. Now it seems a former of what it could have been- like an entirely new direction and very gimmicky

[Ephemiel.5694]

> @"Chasind.3128" said:

> Anet over hypes things. The festival of the four winds was incredibly interesting and fun when it 1st came to gw2.

 

The festival was only done once, in 2014, combining parts of Bazaar of the Four Winds and Queen's Jubilee. This is the first time in 4 years it's done.

 

[Kelly.7019]

if they ever do a new race i'm sure it would be coupled with a new profession. Most likely though they'll roll out old gw1 professions into new gw2 elites.

[hades.4105]

Personally i would like Anet to bring back Elemental damage i think that would be a game changer. it made guild wars 1 more of a challenge. GW2 doesn't challenge you. It is one thing i feel has really been missed. would also be nice to maybe get a new dungeon.

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"hades.4105" said:

> Personally i would like Anet to bring back Elemental damage i think that would be a game changer. it made guild wars 1 more of a challenge. GW2 doesn't challenge you. It is one thing i feel has really been missed. would also be nice to maybe get a new dungeon.

 

Ironically elemental damage is a "thing" in the game, a few weapons and skins have a designated elemental damage that specifies death animations of enemies, and nothing else ;)

 

That aside, I largely consider most forms of Elemental damage to be pretty bad design, as all it does is create a rock/scissor/paper format, where your class either rocks or sucks in any given situation. The current iteration where this is represented with various boons/conditions is much more interesting, if you have a "fire weapon" sure, add burning, frost weapon, add chill etc. I just find this works better in practice without randomly flipping your character/build on/off. (Oh, Svanir, I guess my Ice specked character is useless now, and I should keep another stat set and re-speck for fire damage, even if I find that playstyle boring, etc).

 

Also, fairly sure ANet said there would never be more dungeons, nor more work on existing dungeons :( Fractals is the thing, love or hate it.

[DeanBB.4268]

I wonder if these "elites play the same as core" comments are based on metas? Like renegade using melee rather than short bow, or dragon hunter not using traps. Cuz when I play either of those, I am using the elites and they play totally different than my other builds.

[hades.4105]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > @"hades.4105" said:

> > Personally i would like Anet to bring back Elemental damage i think that would be a game changer. it made guild wars 1 more of a challenge. GW2 doesn't challenge you. It is one thing i feel has really been missed. would also be nice to maybe get a new dungeon.

>

> Ironically elemental damage is a "thing" in the game, a few weapons and skins have a designated elemental damage that specifies death animations of enemies, and nothing else ;)

>

> That aside, I largely consider most forms of Elemental damage to be pretty bad design, as all it does is create a rock/scissor/paper format, where your class either rocks or sucks in any given situation. The current iteration where this is represented with various boons/conditions is much more interesting, if you have a "fire weapon" sure, add burning, frost weapon, add chill etc. I just find this works better in practice without randomly flipping your character/build on/off. (Oh, Svanir, I guess my Ice specked character is useless now, and I should keep another stat set and re-speck for fire damage, even if I find that playstyle boring, etc).

>

> Also, fairly sure ANet said there would never be more dungeons, nor more work on existing dungeons :( Fractals is the thing, love or hate it.<< love this sentence

 

i fully understand where you are coming from but i see it from a slightly different angle, i think Elemental damage adds difficulty. before setting out you would need to figure out what you (or your team in most cases ) would need to take. you may need to take an extra armor set or weapon depending what you may face.

 

i know i am just moaning but i just feel that guild wars 1 was alot more fun and not as grindy as gw2. i miss quests < i did just say that. but that is a different subject lol.

 

 

 

[lorddarkflare.9186]

I think there is a strong argument to be made about the Elite Specs not going far enough, but I think the ship has long sailed in regards to classes working as they did in GW1.

[Nash.3974]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> Specialization > Class

>

> A new class does absolutely nothing for my existing characters. New specializations, however, do.

That’s why you create a new character then.

Why are people so afraid of creating new characters? Nobody forces you to do/have map completion on every character nor does anyone force you to do story all over again this is not the purpose of an alt, to treat it like a main character and have everything completed.

 

I 100% agree that we need more new classes. Elite specs really don’t do it for me. Say what you want but the classes in the end remain the same. If you take longbow on a druid you still have the same old longbow skills.

 

I don’t see any issues with adding new classes. Other games like BDO drop classes every few month. They aren’t even tooo different from the existing ones but just have a different or unique theme does it for me already.

 

I want the ritualist back so much, it has potential because it could bring 3-4 own and unique mechanics (like ashes, weapon spells, spirits …)

And there isn’t really a class in Gw2 who fulfills the ritualist.

 

I really wish anet would explain what the issue with this is. I wouldn’t understand why players would be against new classes. I think many would love that and the others just wouldn’t care but why would you be against it?