BLTC Chest complaint/suggestion

[Kaas.1304]

I personally wish drop from chests would be more consistent. I see people who have opened like 3 chests and got some of the rare and super rare items (I play since launch and got a rare thing once ever). But yesterday I opened **11** chests and only got some of the most useless Common items like a lot of cheap dyes, materials and teleport to a friend. I understand that this is an RNG chest. But not even 1 Uncommon thing from 11 chests?! Really?! It has never been SO bad! Wasted a lot of gold for keys.

[Vavume.8065]

> @"Kaas.1304" said:

> Wasted a lot of gold for keys.

 

Most of have done the same, but then you ask yourself, do you really want to waste any more gold? the answer to that is up to you. I choose not too.

[Game of Bones.8975]

If you consider the drop rate across 1000's of players it evens out the bad with the good.

 

I have dozens of merchant, bank, and trading post contracts that I never use; hundreds of transmutation charges; and plenty of other things I never wanted. But every once in a while I get a home instance node, a cool weapon skin, or that one permanent self style kit.

[crepuscular.9047]

funny... you accept RNG yet you complain about it

 

you dont complain to the casino manager after losing all your money at the slot machine do you

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

The very point of random rewards is that _you_ might be lucky (spoiler alert: it will be the rude guildie you wish would keep quiet). The value of spending gems on this is in the thrill of anticipation that something fun will drop. Making things too consistent defeats this.

 

And ANet has made things more consistent:

* At least one BL Statuette drops from every chest (with minor luck, you can get more).

* So far, just about everything has cycled into the statuette vendor offerings, albeit months and months later. (It's a bit too soon to see what the pattern is, if any.)

 

So if you're patient, opening enough chests will allow you to bypass RNG (or buy some stuff that cycled through the gem shop). It's also been the reason why home instance nodes dropped in price to relatively consistent prices.

 

tl;dr things are more consistent than the OP thinks and too much consistency defeats the fun aspect of random drops

[Oglaf.1074]

It is kind of the entire point of Lootbox Gambling sadly. The only way it could change would be entirely scrapping the chests in their entirety.

[otto.5684]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> It is kind of the entire point of Lootbox Gambling sadly. The only way it could change would be entirely scrapping the chests in their entirety.

 

Which they should. Gambling in video games should be illegal. Loot boxes primarily targets vulnerable people to benefit from their addiction tendencies.

[Kaas.1304]

My point was not to complain about the fact chests are RNG, but about the chances. I understand the chance to get rare stuff (cuz it's rare) is low. But it feels that uncommon is just as rare to me. Considering the amount of gems keys cost, they should make chances a bit better. By what I read, it takes, in general, 40 chests (for some more, for some less) to get the new exclusive skin (it's Uncommon). So if you would spend real money (which is really bad idea) on keys buying 5 for 450 - it will cost $45 US. That is insane for an item in "Uncommon Section".

Example: I was happy to pay 600 gems for a Storm Bow skin in BLTC, I would be fine even if it was 1000 gems (roughly 270 gold) because there was no RNG. But locking items in RNG chest with average gem cost to get an "Uncommon" thing 3600 - is just wrong, also because it might not be the Uncommon item you want. My point also is, that chances used to be better in the past. Now we have Statuettes, but it takes a ton of them to get anything decent.

Previously I didn't mind RNG chests in GW2 because they were OK. But I am disappointed now.

[Shadowzerk.4715]

my friend (guild mate) used 228 key and got his wild magic backpack/glider.

i opened 68 black lion chests and the angel of luck was not on my side .....

some random guy in the LA said he got his glider with 1 key

so yeah...... gambling is bad for u and ur wallet

[Eddbopkins.2630]

I opened 25...i got nothing worth while....#dissapointed

[Kaas.1304]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> too much consistency defeats the fun aspect of random drops

 

I agree! There should be RNG or might as well just add every item from chests to the shop. And I agree about the anticipation. But for me (and it is different for every person) RNG type "which nice thing you get" is fun, when RNG type "would you get a nice thing or NOTHING" is Not fun unless you get something at least medium.

 

> @"Shadowzerk.4715" said:

> my friend (guild mate) used 228 key and got his wild magic backpack/glider.

> i opened 68 black lion chests and the angel of luck was not on my side .....

> some random guy in the LA said he got his glider with 1 key

> so yeah...... gambling is bad for u and ur wallet

 

This is what I am talking about. There are approximately 20 Uncommon items. I would think you will get every one of them if you open 150 chests (1 Uncommon item every 7.5 chests). Not 228. While getting a cool drop from the first try on a rare occasion is exiting and good, it should Not take too many tries for less lucky people.

[crepuscular.9047]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > It is kind of the entire point of Lootbox Gambling sadly. The only way it could change would be entirely scrapping the chests in their entirety.

>

> Which they should. Gambling in video games should be illegal. Loot boxes primarily targets vulnerable people to benefit from their addiction tendencies.

 

at least anet made the real money optional, you can get 1 key from rerolling a L10 character or 2 keys if do up to L40 (more if you are lucky), you can exchange the gold you farmed for it.

 

look at EA's $H!T, there is no alternative way except paying up with real monies

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Kaas.1304" said:

> This is what I am talking about. There are approximately 20 Uncommon items. I would think you will get every one of them if you open 150 chests (1 Uncommon item every 7.5 chests).

 

Why would you think that? If "uncommon" dropped that frequently, a full set of BL skins would be worth a few dozen gold, total, and _everyone_ would have the storm dagger and the mini mounts. It would cease to be special, defeating the point of offering them as RNG.

 

If those are the things you want, save your gold to buy them directly. If it's account bound, buy just enough BL chests so you have enough statuettes to afford it when it shows up. Based on what we've seen so far:

* Weapon skins ~60 statuettes

* Minis 5 (previous guaranteed ones) or 25 (previous special ones) or 60 (pack of 5 themed mount minis)

* Unlimited tools ~45

* Hat skins ~15

 

If you want to increase the odds of an uncommon drop, wait til the end of the chest's life (generally 4 weeks), then buy out the BL weapon skins that are uncommon, and use a Golden Key (guaranteed uncommon or better, costs 50 statuettes).

 

 

 

[crepuscular.9047]

> @"Kaas.1304" said:

> My point also is, that chances used to be better in the past.

 

I see that as a perception

 

I've had bad days like you previously, opened nearly 30 chests i got junk, i was so ticked off I wanna throw my computer out the window

but I've also had good days where I got the special weapon skin with just 1 key

 

all uncommons do not have equally chance of drop rate it seems, I went through 53 keys to get the new dagger skin, I did get 6 Cavalier skins (3 daggers), Scarab glider + backpack set, 1 black lion ticket, and a few weapon/armor/wardrob unlockers

[Kaas.1304]

> @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> If you consider the drop rate across 1000's of players it evens out the bad with the good.

 

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> Why would you think that? If "uncommon" dropped that frequently, a full set of BL skins would be worth a few dozen gold, total, and _everyone_ would have the storm dagger and the mini mounts. It would cease to be special, defeating the point of offering them as RNG.

 

My thinking is different from yours. I don't think any of you are wrong. But in my opinion though, it is ok to make an extremely low chance for something you want to be possessed by low amount of players to make them special, if it is acquirable by in-game means (perfectly also backed up by a story why it's so rare). But if it's a Gem Store item (available for players of all kinds and only of cosmetic or so value), I can't find the reason to make it very rare/expensive/special. What kind of special does it make you? "Lucky" or "Payed-a-lot"(money or gold) doesn't have value for me.

But again: everyone's opinion is different, not necessarily wrong, but different. That is why we have what we have. And not a singe ArenaNet crew member will even decide to read this discussion.

 

Edit: even if many people will have the same weapon/mini/something it is not going to be everyone's "wanted" item, so not everyone will use it anyway.

[Kaas.1304]

> @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> > @"Kaas.1304" said:

> > My point also is, that chances used to be better in the past.

>

> I see that as a perception

>

> I've had bad days like you previously, opened nearly 30 chests i got junk, i was so ticked off I wanna throw my computer out the window

> but I've also had good days where I got the special weapon skin with just 1 key

>

> all uncommons do not have equally chance of drop rate it seems, I went through 53 keys to get the new dagger skin, I did get 6 Cavalier skins, Scarab glider + backpack set, 1 black lion ticket, and a few weapon/armor/wardrob unlockers

 

I used to get a whole ticket or weapon very often, after the rework I rarely even get a scrap. They included statuettes now but removed 1 slot. It didn't substitute well, in my perception.

And it truly seams every item has different drop rate and it is not by "section".

[Plautze.6290]

Watching those vids on YT that show Peachy getting exactly the mount skin she wanted or that italian guy getting lots of lucky drops in a row mislead people to thinking they actually have a chance of ever receiving the desired items with affordable efforts. I tried to get the elemental sword skin (which was not even that rare) and it took me 65 tries. Such a waste of money, but at least I got a nice skin for my future elementalist... what do you mean, they can't wield swords by default and I need to to train weaver for it?! Argh!!! :scream:

 

You could say, that sole experience (and the results of opening chests with those few lucky key drops that occur once in a month) has completely rid me of any hope of ever getting anything remotely useful of even valuable out of those. I consider myself happier because of that =)

 

The veil has fallen and the illusion has been shattered.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

the one rule of gambling is

The

House

Always

Wins

[Mithos.9023]

I have an idea for some time now, that might help with this. In another game there is a system where you get loot randomly after a pvp match. You start out with a low base chance and add up a few percent to your chance after every win and half of this after a loss. So with each game your chance increases. I think something like this would help the with black lion boxes fundamentally. With each box where you don't get the special slot would add a few percent to your chance on the next box, until you get a lucky roll and it is resetted. With this long periods of getting no special roll should be broken up. Even if you are extremely unlucky eventually you would reach 100% and get one item guaranteed. This could help a lot with the perception of the boxes, as getting the special slot would even out more for each player, as compared to now, where it evens out throughout the player base.

[Biff.5312]

> @"Kaas.1304" said:

> I personally wish drop from chests would be more consistent. I see people who have opened like 3 chests and got some of the rare and super rare items (I play since launch and got a rare thing once ever). But yesterday I opened **11** chests and only got some of the most useless Common items like a lot of cheap dyes, materials and teleport to a friend. I understand that this is an RNG chest. But not even 1 Uncommon thing from 11 chests?! Really?! It has never been SO bad! Wasted a lot of gold for keys.

 

I'm not sure I understand. "uncommon" by definition means not common. What it sounds like is that you want good rewards to be common. But the whole idea of the BLC is to get you to spend money hoping to get one of the rarer items eventually. Is it fair and equitable? No. That's why you shouldn't buy keys. It's a bad investment, and always will be.

[Roam.5208]

> @"Kaas.1304" said:

> And it truly seams every item has different drop rate and it is not by "section".

 

I think this is definitely true. Taking the drop lists from the new boxes (for example, the 50k one on Reddit) it's a clear trend that less valuable items (such as Chaos of Lyssa recipe) drop _way_ more often than more expensive items in the same category. It's probably safe to assume that the BL chests follow the same mechanic. In which case, it seems very misleading to label them by section.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> funny... you accept RNG yet you complain about it

>

> you dont complain to the casino manager after losing all your money at the slot machine do you

 

Depending on how much money you lost, you usually can. Its a psychological game most casinos run, and shares a lot of similarities to the PR games played by big corporations when it comes to public opinion. The best type of Con is the one where the Mark thinks they won. Guy loses 10 grand in your casino, that draws a lot of attention..... people might not wanna gamble there. But we'll make it up to you..... comp your room or upgrade you to a suite, free food, VIP tickets to a show and a day at the Spa for you and your lady friend. Costs them maybe $700, and you're still out $10k; but you walk out of there thinking you came out on top.

 

 

> @"Exalted Quality.8534" said:

> the one rule of gambling is

> The

> House

> Always

> Wins

 

^

This guy gets it. > @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > It is kind of the entire point of Lootbox Gambling sadly. The only way it could change would be entirely scrapping the chests in their entirety.

>

> Which they should. Gambling in video games should be illegal. Loot boxes primarily targets vulnerable people to benefit from their addiction tendencies.

 

And the irony here is that if you've been playing games for the last 10 years, you've already been conditioned to favor that model. Constantly banging your head farming mobs and events, on the off chance you might get something valuable, while all the other crap you get has just enough value to placate you.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Roam.5208" said:

> > @"Kaas.1304" said:

> > And it truly seams every item has different drop rate and it is not by "section".

>

> I think this is definitely true. Taking the drop lists from the new boxes (for example, the 50k one on Reddit) it's a clear trend that less valuable items (such as Chaos of Lyssa recipe) drop _way_ more often than more expensive items in the same category. It's probably safe to assume that the BL chests follow the same mechanic. In which case, it seems very misleading to label them by section.

 

I don't think we've seen enough data to be sure of that.

However, it would be consistent with ANet practices in the past:

e.g. "common" means anything with a drop rate between 80 and 95%, uncommon might be anything between 1 and 5%, rare might be between 0.001 and 0.1% and so on.

 

It's not "wrong" to group them in such a way, but neither is it particularly helpful to us.

[lokh.2695]

A gamble is a gamble is a gamble. You win some, you lose some. [metaphor]. Better luck next time.

[Roam.5208]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> It's not "wrong" to group them in such a way, but neither is it particularly helpful to us.

 

Considering the push lately for transparency when it comes to lootbox stats, I would think it's definitely not a good thing. If we can't get rid of them altogether, then we should at least have a clear picture on what we're dealing with.