Will Rytlock ever get called out for his actions?

[Loesh.4697]

> @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> > > Thing is... I don't think it would've prevented _anything._

> > >

> > > Let's say Rytlock _did_ come clean to the Commander. Then let's say that they put their heads together and developed a suspicion that this stranger capable of relighting Sohothin was Balthazar. Let's even suspend disbelief and say that they were then able to pick up Balthazar's trail, despite Balthazar having a mirror that'd let him appear to be virtually anything and anyone, and the Commander needing to deal with a dragon subverting an entire race of allies and a bloodstone exploding and a civil war in another race of allies and two more dragons suddenly showing a surge of activity, all on top of personal concerns that all this magic exposure might be driving them insane... let's set all that aside and say that the Commander located Balthazar, and trailed him long enough to deduce that he was out to kill the dragons.

> > >

> > > The Commander probably would've walked up and said 'Oh, thank the Six- I mean, you- this will be so much easier with a god on board.'

> > >

> > > Remember, we didn't stop wanting the same thing as Balthazar until after we'd figured out everything anyway. That machine Balthazar almost used to destroy the world? We had it developed _specifically to do that,_ if anything in a more destructive way, since we wouldn't have been able to jack in and absorb some of the power that we would otherwise have unleashed. Knowing Balthazar's identity would only have made things worse, since we'd be more inclined to trust a historical ally than a historical enemy like Lazarus. What if we had told him about the machine early? The only reason Taimi went back to check her work and discover that killing dragons was apocalyptic was because she had misgivings about the way Balthazar seized the machine by force. If we had approached him, put him in a position where he didn't have to resort to that, there's every possibility that Tyria would be gone before we even knew it was at risk.

> > >

> > > I honestly think Rytlock's silence, irritating as it was, may have inadvertently saved the world.

> >

> > I think the reason that doesn't work for me, is that the moment we realized it was Balthazar we would of had a very important question: Why, precisely. were you locked up and who could even do that?

> >

> > I called this early in the last living world Season, Balthazar was imprisoned by the gods. Nobody, NOBODY save them has the power to strip a divine being of power and lock them into the Mists. Anyone even remotely familiar with the day the night fell would immediately recognize that, for some reason, Balthazar had been banished. Which would of then immediately led into the question "Why did the Gods NOT want us to kill the Dragons?" at which point, I think we would of at the very least seriously reconsidered what we were about to do with Primordius and Jormagg.

>

> I think that'd still be quite a leap of logic- for example, while many players did guess that Balthazar was turned on by the other gods, just as many thought that he'd been beaten by Menzies, and others thought that something had happened to _all_ of the gods- but let's say, once again, it all went down like that. The Commander jumps to being suspicious of Balthazar, and then Balthazar is unable to blow us off or spin a yarn that our character would accept. Being evasive deepens our suspicions, and we resolve to act against him on the principle that anyone powerful being shifty with us needs to be stopped. (Sorry, Anise, but you probably have it coming.)

>

> Then what?

>

> The basis of your argument is that the deaths at the hands of Balthazar's Forged were ultimately preventable. By handwaving two major plot hiccups, we're now up to the point where Rytlock and the Commander recognize Balthazar as a threat and are committed to stopping him. So how do they stop an entity that can create portals with a wave of his hand when things aren't going his way, possesses an artifact that creates foolproof disguises, and has a ready base of loyal followers who'll rally to his name? Or, if surmounting the plot hiccups delayed us until the bloodstone exploded, how do we stop an entity who can do all of that, and also burn dozens of people at once with a wave of his other hand?

>

> How could we have prevented those deaths?

 

I think my primary argument against that would be precedent, without proof of what transpired I would go back to the last time a god was stripped of power, or rather the last two times. Always at the hands of a divine being, and always with the blessing of the pantheon, the Menzies theory would have to tie into the 'something happened to all the gods' theory, a really cataclysmic event would have to occur that resulted in them being in such a state where Balthazar could of been drained and imprisoned without any input of the others. At the very least he'd have to either convince us that all the gods were dead/incapacitated or that they themselves had gone rogue before we bought into his shtick. Now of course it's valid to say there'sa chance that the commander could of bought into things off the bat, but for me it's one of those 'If there's a 60% chance you can save a bunch of children from dying, you should do it.' situations.

 

And while Balthazar can indeed do those things, that...minus the mirror which is a unique factor and his follower base....kind of just puts him at the same power level as some of the other extremely magic juiced characters we've fought before, on his own Balthazar isn't actually quite that bad without the Forged in full swing and without Joko helping him bolster his power. I wouldn't say that it'd be easy, be we've fought and beaten much worse then a character with access to easy transportation, a large follower base, and some absurdly strong fire magic by now.

[norbes.3620]

Im just imagening how the dialogue would possibily went after rytlocks appearence in HoT

 

Rox: whats that new Magic?

Rytlock: not now shoo shoo

 

Rytlock: Commander i gotta tell ya something..

PC: really? what is it?

Rytlock in the mists.. i found my sword and there was this dude in chains who light up ist fire.. i freed him after that and he opened a Portal for me to get here

PC: who was he?

Rytlock: just some old bearded Spirit guy

PC: what happened to him?

Rytlock: he didnt seem to have followed me so propably he stayed behind

PC : awesome! now get ur furry head over there and help us find the pact marshal and the slacker from DE. ASAP .. stop wasting my time moron

 

 

i dont really see how this would have changed something.. maybe the PC would have been able to see the Connection after balth got exposed but maybe not.. prevent countless deaths? hard to believe that to be honest specially cuz maybe could not even contact him during his sessions in the citadel to make sure the PC's guess is right(wich rytlock could not deliver cuz he dont know himself.. best we could have got would have been a "maybe") after all he got called to the citadel **bevor** balth got revealed

 

im not that super fan of rytlock but i cant give him that much of a hardship for withholding THIS Information..

[Loesh.4697]

> @"norbes.3620" said:

> Im just imagening how the dialogue would possibily went after rytlocks appearence in HoT

>

> Rox: whats that new Magic?

> Rytlock: not now shoo shoo

>

> Rytlock: Commander i gotta tell ya something..

> PC: really? what is it?

> Rytlock in the mists.. i found my sword and there was this dude in chains who light up ist fire.. i freed him after that and he opened a Portal for me to get here

> PC: who was he?

> Rytlock: just some old bearded Spirit guy

> PC: what happened to him?

> Rytlock: he didnt seem to have followed me so propably he stayed behind

> PC : awesome! now get ur furry head over there and help us find the pact marshal and the slacker from DE. ASAP .. stop wasting my time moron

>

>

> i dont really see how this would have changed something.. maybe the PC would have been able to see the Connection after balth got exposed but maybe not.. prevent countless deaths? hard to believe that to be honest specially cuz maybe could not even contact him during his sessions in the citadel to make sure the PC's guess is right(wich rytlock could not deliver cuz he dont know himself.. best we could have got would have been a "maybe") after all he got called to the citadel **bevor** balth got revealed

>

> im not that super fan of rytlock but i cant give him that much of a hardship for withholding THIS Information..

 

I think the thing I keep coming back to with this argument is that the sword in question is Sohothan, it is one of, if not the most unusual and iconic sword in the Guild Wars universe. As someone pointed out earlier Rytlock has studied Orrian and Ascalonian history for years now, even if he doesn't respect the holiness of the weapon he should understand why it's special and why some random spirit being able to ignite the blade is unusual. The details of the deal itself imply this: He's willing to break out a random spirit he doesn't know, whose reason for imprisonment he doesn't understand, for the service of reigniting the godblade. Why be that desperate if anyone, anywhere, can do it for him? The only thing that makes sense to me is that he was made an offer he 'couldn't refuse' in the sense that he just didn't know where else to do that. But let's be generous and say he doesn't piece things together immediately, he puts the thought away because...after all...Mordromoth is on the loose and they need to fixate on that before anything else.

 

Even on the way to the Citadel he couldn't of written us a letter? it wouldn't of taken me very long to realize something is up. People fixate on this spirit being locked in the Mists but creatures like that breach our reality constantly, and even their consequences within the Mist itself can be dire. At some point Rytlock should of realized that he should say something, this small bit of information could of led to the Commander doing some kind of investigation or being extremely wary around Lazerous when the reckoning came. It's hard for me to believe that Rytlock didn't realize some significance at the very least, and it's harder for me to think of any justification for not taking a few minutes to tell us even if he thought the information was irrelevant at first.

[Ardid.7203]

OP is seriously comparing Rytlock mistakes with Logan betrayal and Caithe sociopathy? Really?

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"norbes.3620" said:

> Im just imagening how the dialogue would possibily went after rytlocks appearence in HoT

>

> Rox: whats that new Magic?

> Rytlock: not now shoo shoo

>

> Rytlock: Commander i gotta tell ya something..

> PC: really? what is it?

> Rytlock in the mists.. i found my sword and there was this dude in chains who light up ist fire.. i freed him after that and he opened a Portal for me to get here

> PC: who was he?

> Rytlock: just some old bearded Spirit guy

> PC: what happened to him?

> Rytlock: he didnt seem to have followed me so propably he stayed behind

> PC : awesome! now get ur furry head over there and help us find the pact marshal and the slacker from DE. ASAP .. stop wasting my time moron

>

>

> i dont really see how this would have changed something.. maybe the PC would have been able to see the Connection after balth got exposed but maybe not.. prevent countless deaths? hard to believe that to be honest specially cuz maybe could not even contact him during his sessions in the citadel to make sure the PC's guess is right(wich rytlock could not deliver cuz he dont know himself.. best we could have got would have been a "maybe") after all he got called to the citadel **bevor** balth got revealed

>

> im not that super fan of rytlock but i cant give him that much of a hardship for withholding THIS Information..

 

Also note, who is not accustomed to mists, it is difficult to distinguish reality from visions, or as Rytlock says, it is difficult to even know the passage of time. In the fight against Mordremoth, about not wanting to enter the Dream he says "I'm tired of metaphysical landscapes". The mists is not just a place of ghosts, but a place full of confusing visions.

[Loesh.4697]

> @"Ardid.7203" said:

> OP is seriously comparing Rytlock mistakes with Logan betrayal and Caithe sociopathy? Really?

 

Do you not consider omitting critical information treachery? I'd point out Caithe was under the mental pressure of a Wyld Hunt, she had an irresistible drive digging into her thoughts and forcing her to do something. Likewise with Logan, for all the times people bring up mental duress affecting Rytlocks decisions they seem to conveniently ignore the fact the love of Logans life and his people were in danger.

 

[Vayne.8563]

> @"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said:

> Let's not forget that Rytlock threw the rest of Destiny's Edge under the bus to make Dragon's Watch in Episode 1 of LWS3. To me, that's pretty callous, regardless if you like them or not. He didn't wait to consult with the rest of DE to see if it was worth continuing after Eir's death, Caithe's betrayal, and the convalescing of Logan and Zojja. He just all of sudden and out of nowhere decided "lol their ded maek new guild". Logan may not care considering where he is now and Caithe is, well, Caithe, but when/if Zojja ever comes back I hope she let's Rytlock have it verbally. The same with the Commander seeing as they went along with Rytlock's idea.

>

> So yeah, count me in the camp of "When is Rytlock going to face consequences for his (in)actions" at least in regards to the point I made but I'll admit that I hate and loathe Rytlock.

 

Leaving a dead guild for an active guild is throwing someone under a bus now? Oh the horrors! lol

 

There were four people in DE after Eir died. One had placed herself in self-imposed exile, another had proved herself untrustworthy. He was fighting the good fight with new people. The commander was never in DE, and he's been following the commander since the personal story. Seems to me with Logan not only injured by taking care of the needs of Queen Jennah, Caith not trustworthy, Eir dead and Zojja gone, you're judging this guy pretty harshly.

[ugrakarma.9416]

But there is another side, before the PoF reveal, the dialogues and the "atmosphere" created around the subject, it was understood that Rytlock knew something, which was too serious to be revealed, in other words Until Pof, the tone appears to have been setted up to show Rytlock was "aware".

Sudden in PoF hes "i guess it was just a random dude". so it's seems a case of bad storytelling to me.

 

[Loesh.4697]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> But there is another side, before the PoF reveal, the dialogues and the "atmosphere" created around the subject, it was understood that Rytlock knew something, which was too serious to be revealed, in other words Until Pof, the tone appears to have been setted up to show Rytlock was "aware".

> Sudden in PoF hes "i guess it was just a random dude". so it's seems a case of bad storytelling to me.

>

 

In the start of PoF he does seem to be putting things together, if he hadn't been putting it together for awhile. Which leads me to believe he was just saving his tail, especially after the conversation he just had where he remarked that the Charr always seem to be cleaning up everyones messes.

 

Though I do concede that, as always, plain ol _story inconsistency_ may be responsible, it's just I guess PoF has conditioned me to have a little higher expectations when compared to the core story.

 

[ugrakarma.9416]

Before the PoF revelation, i imagined that he had seen something that would have apocalyptic implications for Tyria, the silence was to avoid rumors and chaos .. when Balthazar come out i tried connected the dots and imagined its was related to Rytlock travel. i imagined that he he would have seen a fight between the gods, or some kind of "super demon" destroying the mists which would explain Balthazar's desperation to kill the dragons.

 

[Eekasqueak.7850]

> @"Ardid.7203" said:

> OP is seriously comparing Rytlock mistakes with Logan betrayal and Caithe sociopathy? Really?

 

OP has a grudge against charr I think.

[Loesh.4697]

> @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > @"Ardid.7203" said:

> > OP is seriously comparing Rytlock mistakes with Logan betrayal and Caithe sociopathy? Really?

>

> OP has a grudge against charr I think.

 

I have a distaste for Asura and Charr in particular. That said, I love Rox, Tybalt Leftpaw, the Olmakhan, etc.

 

I think it's more accurate to say I have a severe dislike for their unaplogetic individualistic lifestyle of the Legions that harms those around them with little in the way of consequence, of which Rytlock is the latest and most egregious manifestation.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

> @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > @"Ardid.7203" said:

> > > OP is seriously comparing Rytlock mistakes with Logan betrayal and Caithe sociopathy? Really?

> >

> > OP has a grudge against charr I think.

>

> I have a distaste for Asura and Charr in particular. That said, I love Rox, Tybalt Leftpaw, the Olmakhan, etc.

>

> I think it's more accurate to say I have a severe dislike for their unaplogetic individualistic lifestyle of the Legions that harms those around them with little in the way of consequence, of which Rytlock is the latest and most egregious manifestation.

 

Ah-ha! We have now admitted racial bias! The case is closed.

 

_Smokes his bubble pipe after a job not well done._

[Loesh.4697]

> @"Diak Atoli.2085" said:

> > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > @"Ardid.7203" said:

> > > > OP is seriously comparing Rytlock mistakes with Logan betrayal and Caithe sociopathy? Really?

> > >

> > > OP has a grudge against charr I think.

> >

> > I have a distaste for Asura and Charr in particular. That said, I love Rox, Tybalt Leftpaw, the Olmakhan, etc.

> >

> > I think it's more accurate to say I have a severe dislike for their unaplogetic individualistic lifestyle of the Legions that harms those around them with little in the way of consequence, of which Rytlock is the latest and most egregious manifestation.

>

> Ah-ha! We have now admitted racial bias! The case is closed.

>

> _Smokes his bubble pipe after a job not well done._

 

I mean heck, most people on this forum have a form bias. Unlike most it's not down to 'I hate furries' either, their lifestyle, and their actions are straight up repugnant. But that is neither here nor there.

 

Eeksqueak himself seems rabidly pro-Asura, funnily enough.

[kasoki.5180]

First:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

 

Second: Rytlock clearly states that he didn't even think that person he encountered was "real". He though it was just another spirit from the mists.

There was nothing for him to tell us, nothing to admit, considering information he had at the time.

 

Difference between Caithe and Rytlock is that Caithe actually had the option to talk with you and never acted on it. Rytlock did not as he was alone in the mists

[Loesh.4697]

> @"kasoki.5180" said:

> First:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

>

> Second: Rytlock clearly states that he didn't even think that person he encountered was "real". He though it was just another spirit from the mists.

> There was nothing for him to tell us, nothing to admit, considering information he had at the time.

>

> Difference between Caithe and Rytlock is that Caithe actually had the option to talk with you and never acted on it. Rytlock did not as he was alone in the mists

 

We've already talked about both these aspects earlier in the thread, granted this thing is getting rather long at this point so I don't blame you for not thumbing through every single post.

 

That said, for the sake of argument. Let's assume some other peoples suggestions are 1000% right, let's assume that if we were given this information it would of changed nothing. We had no idea what to do with it, we were unable to find any leads, we didn't put together Lazerous could be related, we didn't beef up security on any of our projects and we weren't more leery about how our work could be exploited for the gains of others and this information couldn't be used to disrupt the White Mantle in any way, shape, or form.

 

It is not _Rytlocks_ place to discern what information is or is not relevant. He is a soldier, he should know that we need to keep in constant communication with one another and the right hand needs to be aware of what the left is doing. At this point, after so many campaigns, after so many dead, with the whole of the worlds balance on the line WE NEED TO KNOW, even the smallest fraction of information can mean someone lives and someone else dies. I don't care if the Citadel considers it's classified, but if he was guilty, confused, fair enough...to an extent. We've had months at this point, MONTHS, and the information didn't come out until we were in a literal fistfight with a god.

 

At the very least, we deserve a genuine 'I'm sorry' and an affirmation this won't happen again.

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"Loesh.4697" said:

> At this point, after so many campaigns, after so many dead, with the whole of the worlds balance on the line WE NEED TO KNOW, even the smallest fraction of information can mean someone lives and someone else dies. I don't care if the Citadel considers it's classified, but if he was guilty, confused, fair enough...to an extent. We've had months at this point, MONTHS, and the information didn't come out until we were in a literal fistfight with a god.

 

It's funny to require "openness" of information in the GW2 universe as criterion of loyalty, Tyria is full of secret organizations and full of information not yet revealed. So what to think of Durmand Priory and his vast knowledge? Order of Whispers? our friends from Shinning Blade? All are traitors who deserve punishment? compared to our friend "Anise", Rytlock is an open book.

 

[Loesh.4697]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > At this point, after so many campaigns, after so many dead, with the whole of the worlds balance on the line WE NEED TO KNOW, even the smallest fraction of information can mean someone lives and someone else dies. I don't care if the Citadel considers it's classified, but if he was guilty, confused, fair enough...to an extent. We've had months at this point, MONTHS, and the information didn't come out until we were in a literal fistfight with a god.

>

> It's funny to require "openness" of information in the GW2 universe as criterion of loyalty, Tyria is full of secret organizations and full of information not yet revealed. So what to think of Durmand Priory and his vast knowledge? Order of Whispers? our friends from Shinning Blade? All are traitors who deserve punishment? compared to our friend "Anise", Rytlock is an open book.

>

 

I mean, the Order of Whispers _is_ a global conspiracy that maintains a perpetual status quo in the planet by hiring murderers to it's cause and manipulating the opinions of the population through carefully curated information.

 

The world of Tyria is a little Orwellion to say the least. As i'v said before, Joko had a point at the end of the latest episode. I'm not a terrible fan of any of the organizations listed, all of them, and Rytlock, smack of the ends justify the means.

 

[Diak Atoli.2085]

Ok, then. This rabbit hole's going nowhere.

[Randulf.7614]

Our character doesn't openly share every bit of info even if it is important enough to save lives. We keep secrets all the time from the Orders, the Pact, various Kingdoms, our own Guild. Why is that any different? Why are we considered so utterly self important and arrogant to demand info on something which was none of our business from someone on a mission unrelated to anything we were doing?

 

No treason occurred, no wrong doing or moral dilemma caused by Rytlocks actions. If we start picking such a minute and insignificant detail apart, the story will unravel rapidly based on our own hypocrisies alone. At the end of the day, if Rytlock knew there was a link and kept it from us, then we might have some small grounds for mistrust, but currently there are none whatsoever based on the story and the facts at hand.

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"Loesh.4697" said:

> I mean, the Order of Whispers _is_ a global conspiracy that maintains a perpetual status quo in the planet by hiring murderers to it's cause and manipulating the opinions of the population through carefully curated information.

>

> The world of Tyria is a little Orwellion to say the least. As i'v said before, Joko had a point at the end of the latest episode. I'm not a terrible fan of any of the organizations listed, all of them, and Rytlock, smack of the ends justify the means.

>

 

We basically are allied with disguised dictatorships or half-dictatorships. only the norms seem to be a exception.

 

The narrative of Tyria is like a tragic world in perpetual war between factions, kingdoms a even races, also genocide does not seem to be a problem in Tyria. This was interrupted by the Elder Dragons, where different groups and species unite against them.

[Loesh.4697]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> Our character doesn't openly share every bit of info even if it is important enough to save lives. We keep secrets all the time from the Orders, the Pact, various Kingdoms, our own Guild. Why is that any different? Why are we considered so utterly self important and arrogant to demand info on something which was none of our business from someone on a mission unrelated to anything we were doing?

>

> No treason occurred, no wrong doing or moral dilemma caused by Rytlocks actions. If we start picking such a minute and insignificant detail apart, the story will unravel rapidly based on our own hypocrisies alone. At the end of the day, if Rytlock knew there was a link and kept it from us, then we might have some small grounds for mistrust, but currently there are none whatsoever based on the story and the facts at hand.

 

I mean, isn't that kind of the point of PoF?

 

That's what I thought it was at least. We're pushing into a foreign country that we have no business in, causing a radical regime change in a nation we don't understand, swaying a population to our support to stop a Rogue God who in all honesty has about as much, if not more, of a plan then we do. Look at our allies: The Order of Shadows, a hyper extreme version of the Order of Whispers that ruthlessly murders anyone and everyone that gets in the way of it's interests. Constantly pushing and pulling the society into a state of status quo is god, building schemes within schemes while having no real plan for an endgame, _just like how we had no plan for an endgame._ The Olmakhan who aren't just a scathing critique of the Charr society, virtual villain protagonists, that we've allied ourselves with but our rampant destruction in general. Introducing invasive magic into an environment it was never built for, causing upheavals in places we don't understand, throwing everything and the book at something that as it turned out was a critical part of nature itself. Woops.

 

One AMA said that the story of Tyria is one of us constantly kicking a can down the road. Magic, technology, the Dragons, whatever. We're never open and transparent with one another, we're never willing to actually fight out our problems because we're afraid that divided we won't be able to survive a threat to the world. Turns out that threat IS the world, and if anything we are as threatening to each other as the Dragons. We keep building and building on problems, just keeping the planet in the dark to our actions. As you can, very happily choose to do at Kasmeers suggestion at the end of PoF. If there was any redemption for Rytlock in this story it might be _that_ actually, choosing to tell the truth, because hiding things never saved anybody. Ain't that a hell of a character arc, eh?

 

We are hypocrites, and Rytlock is a hypocrite if he can't realize what he did was wrong. We choose to keep these things to ourselves, and we choose to put power in the hands of people who might not know better then anyone else. We manipulate other cultures, control 'lesser races' for our benefit, and in the service of what? Accelerating Tyria's destruction? We have the choice. Either we can be open and honest....or we can kick the can down the road, one more time.

 

In my eyes this expansion was about Kormir as much as it was Balthazar, it was about the truth and consequence.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

OP you keep skirting around the point and the only people agreeing with you seeming to be radically anti-charr or anti-Rytlock or both is -very- telling. There's also the matter of Glint having a part in this, she could have told Rytlock who the old man was but didn't. If anything it was probably her fault, because Rytlock is a herald explicitly and it can be assumed Glint talks to him. Unless Balthazar already had Lyssa's mirror at this point which would make it so Glint could be fooled too.

[Loesh.4697]

> @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> OP you keep skirting around the point and the only people agreeing with you seeming to be radically anti-charr or anti-Rytlock or both is -very- telling. There's also the matter of Glint having a part in this, she could have told Rytlock who the old man was but didn't. If anything it was probably her fault, because Rytlock is a herald explicitly and it can be assumed Glint talks to him. Unless Balthazar already had Lyssa's mirror at this point which would make it so Glint could be fooled too.

 

I mean what am I skirting around that people are saying? That Rytlock viewed it as irrelevant and therefore he didn't need to tell us? that if he did tell us it wouldn't mattered and so it's okay? I acknowledge these points, I just plain disagree with them and they don't resonate with my morality.

 

It's kind of funny that you'd mention people being Anti-Charr and Anti-Rytlock agreeing with me, because unless i'm mistaken I don't think _anyone_ has agreed with me. Which I hardly mind, my goal isn't to get the approval of the masses it's to see if anyone can actually fashion together a convincing reason for the sake of discussion that i'd view his actions as okay.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > OP you keep skirting around the point and the only people agreeing with you seeming to be radically anti-charr or anti-Rytlock or both is -very- telling. There's also the matter of Glint having a part in this, she could have told Rytlock who the old man was but didn't. If anything it was probably her fault, because Rytlock is a herald explicitly and it can be assumed Glint talks to him. Unless Balthazar already had Lyssa's mirror at this point which would make it so Glint could be fooled too.

>

> I mean what am I skirting around that people are saying? That Rytlock viewed it as irrelevant and therefore he didn't need to tell us? that if he did tell us it wouldn't mattered and so it's okay? I acknowledge these points, I just plain disagree with them and they don't resonate with my morality.

>

> It's kind of funny that you'd mention people being Anti-Charr and Anti-Rytlock agreeing with me, because unless i'm mistaken I don't think _anyone_ has agreed with me. Which I hardly mind, my goal isn't to get the approval of the masses it's to see if anyone can actually fashion together a convincing reason for the sake of discussion that i'd view his actions as okay.

 

My issue is: youve dismissed the given reasons that many people find okay and accepting of as totally nonsense.

 

Itd be like if the medics in WW1 that treated dozens of soldiers, and the one who treated Adolf Hitler should be blamed for Adolf Hitler rising to power. Obviously not, he was just another soldier who was wounded. Balthazar was just another spirit in the mists to Rytlock, its a very very similiar thing.