Bring Back No Downstate!

[BlueMelody.6398]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > As a roamer I hated the no downstate event. It made outnumbered fights nearly impossible.

> >

> > Everyone had a different experience as a solo roamer. I had great success myself as did the rest of my guild and one of my other guilds (who mainly solo roam/small scale). Both guilds T2/T3 servers so I cannot speak for other tiers or regions

> >

> > From when the event was over, according to the forums and reddit, you are part of a minority (woo go you :) ) however its possible the ones who loved it were the real minority, but they were louder so I guess we will truly never know. Be cool if Anet did a poll on forums and reddit to confirm who is the majority.

>

> IMO a middle grounds needs to be achieved, between no downed state and downed, maybe change the rules how it happens and change how getting players back works?

>

> For example, downed players can only be back up trough revive skills, or players traited for that, with the skills players would have to add them on the utilities replacing some other utilitie, after that no more hard revive, OR also could be possible make it work by reviving a fully dead player but making caster using the revival skill rooted and skill would take 2x to be casted or easilly interrupted.

>

> Killing targets of your downed ally would not make player get back up to the fight.

> This would work like a hybrid version of gw1 and gw2 revival mechanics, and add more risk and awareness requirement on getting players back to the battle :\

 

Agreed, I've long been in favor of removing rally (all forms of it) from DS and am not opposed to otherwise nerfing some aspects of DS, so that people are forced to choose between halting to res vs. just keep on killing and counting on rally to do the ressing. I just don't want it removed completely, particularly with the presence of OSK builds.

[Malediktus.9250]

No thanks, that weekend was horrible

[archmagus.7249]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > As a roamer I hated the no downstate event. It made outnumbered fights nearly impossible.

> >

> > Everyone had a different experience as a solo roamer. I had great success myself as did the rest of my guild and one of my other guilds (who mainly solo roam/small scale). Both guilds T2/T3 servers so I cannot speak for other tiers or regions

> >

> > From when the event was over, according to the forums and reddit, you are part of a minority (woo go you :) ) however its possible the ones who loved it were the real minority, but they were louder so I guess we will truly never know. Be cool if Anet did a poll on forums and reddit to confirm who is the majority.

>

> IMO a middle grounds needs to be achieved, between no downed state and downed, maybe change the rules how it happens and change how getting players back works?

>

> For example, downed players can only be back up trough revive skills, or players traited for that, with the skills players would have to add them on the utilities replacing some other utilitie, after that no more hard revive, OR also could be possible make it work by reviving a fully dead player but making caster using the revival skill rooted and skill would take 2x to be casted or easilly interrupted.

>

> Killing targets of your downed ally would not make player get back up to the fight.

> This would work like a hybrid version of gw1 and gw2 revival mechanics, and add more risk and awareness requirement on getting players back to the battle :\

 

Didn't they already give us a fix between pve and PvP? Namely no ressing dead people in combat and only rallying off one person. Removing/shortening the invulnerablility frame you get when you go down could be a compromise.

[Kaiser.9873]

No downs favors the bigger zerg plain and simple. Sure you can take a few here and there, but attrition will MOST OF THE TIME destroy the smaller force.

[Israel.7056]

Yes please.

[Player.9621]

1 player death = 1 rally >

[hugeboss.5432]

"No downed state" puts the emphasis on skill/builds/experience over numbers, while "Downed state enabled" puts the emphasis on numbers over everything (and thus causes the population imbalance to be the best & easiest "tactic" to win).

 

I prefer the "no downed state" option, in my opinion WvW should of always had "no downed state".

 

[EvilSardine.9635]

Another vote for completely removing the downed state. It only favors the group with larger numbers.

 

You can be outnumbered and you outplay a group and you're punished by just having them get rezzed. It's terrible.

 

 

[Straegen.2938]

This please! Best WvW event I have played.

[Sovereign.1093]

if you bomb as one, the enemy is essentially gg dead, double down. =p

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"EvilSardine.9635" said:

> Another vote for completely removing the downed state. It only favors the group with larger numbers.

>

> You can be outnumbered and you outplay a group and you're punished by just having them get rezzed. It's terrible.

 

I would argue that if you failed to suppress the ressers, you didnt outplay them to begin with.

[Ubi.4136]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"EvilSardine.9635" said:

> > Another vote for completely removing the downed state. It only favors the group with larger numbers.

> >

> > You can be outnumbered and you outplay a group and you're punished by just having them get rezzed. It's terrible.

>

> I would argue that if you failed to suppress the ressers, you didnt outplay them to begin with.

 

NO amount of skill is going to stop the 60+ blob from literally .1 second insta-ressing itself. Especially not when they have twice your number. No downstate allowed the more skilled players to win those fights, regardless of how badly outnumbered.

[Akashi.3245]

no thanks . ~Dax

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Ubi.4136" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"EvilSardine.9635" said:

> > > Another vote for completely removing the downed state. It only favors the group with larger numbers.

> > >

> > > You can be outnumbered and you outplay a group and you're punished by just having them get rezzed. It's terrible.

> >

> > I would argue that if you failed to suppress the ressers, you didnt outplay them to begin with.

>

> NO amount of skill is going to stop the 60+ blob from literally .1 second insta-ressing itself. Especially not when they have twice your number. No downstate allowed the more skilled players to win those fights, regardless of how badly outnumbered.

 

No amount of no downed state magic shennanigans would have stopped a 60+ blob from also being far, far stronger against a force half their size under the same scenario.

 

No downed state was great in cherry picked situations against people that hadnt adapted to no downed state.

 

Had the event lasted a month I can assure you that your 30 man "skilled" group would still loose every fight to 60+ because they will just fall back to objectives and wear you down enough to roflstomp push, as opposed to trying to butt heads in open field where no downed state wear them down. Or they just wouldnt engage at all and then you'd have lots of fun fighting nothing, I'm sure.

 

WvW zerg warfare is sort of self balancing that way and downed state is just a minor aspect of it.

 

 

[KrHome.1920]

> @"archmagus.7249" said:

> As a roamer I hated the no downstate event. It made outnumbered fights nearly impossible.

As a romaer i loved the event because I often could kill at least one of the gank squad members I ran into as they could not rez anymore.

 

No-Downstate increases your chances to win or at least achieve something at all in outnumbered situations.

 

It feels much more rewarding.

 

[RedShark.9548]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > As a roamer I hated the no downstate event. It made outnumbered fights nearly impossible.

> As a romaer i loved the event because I often could kill at least one of the gank squad members I ran into as they could not rez anymore.

>

> No-Downstate increases your chances to win or at least achieve something at all in outnumbered situations.

>

> It feels much more rewarding.

>

 

yep, its almost impossible to finish a downed enemy when there are 2 or 3 other guys attacking you or are rezzing, stomp is way too slow, most ppl can rezz faster than the stomp takes to go through, and cleaving isnt rly an option, except maybe for scourges that have the aoe and dmg to melt not moving targets

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > As a roamer I hated the no downstate event. It made outnumbered fights nearly impossible.

> As a romaer i loved the event because I often could kill at least one of the gank squad members I ran into as they could not rez anymore.

>

> No-Downstate increases your chances to win or at least achieve something at all in outnumbered situations.

>

> It feels much more rewarding.

>

 

For me it was the other way around - it was nice and challenging to bait the others into res'ing their downs, and managing each of them and getting them to go into panic mode. With NDS it was just boring to watch them drop like flies and that's it. No challenge, no fight, no reward. NDS is more like wam bam thank you mam mode wanting to get things done quick and not enjoying the actual fight. I want to get the feeling of challenge in most fights otherwise it's not fun, I rather have the enemy be able to fight back no matter the skill level. There is nothing fun to me about having fights that don't keep you on edge.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"EvilSardine.9635" said:

> > Another vote for completely removing the downed state. It only favors the group with larger numbers.

> >

> > You can be outnumbered and you outplay a group and you're punished by just having them get rezzed. It's terrible.

>

> I would argue that if you failed to suppress the ressers, you didnt outplay them to begin with.

Yeah, that. The people who benefit most from the removal of down state are the people "skilled" enough to spike individual players down, but not actually skilled enough to finish them off before their allies come to their aid (and the ability to help your allies by getting them back on their feet is one of the big reasons downed state even exists).

[Jerry CCH.9816]

we need WvW event week agaain !!

=)

[TheQuickFox.3826]

No ty. My Ele is too fragile already as he is now.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"EvilSardine.9635" said:

> > > Another vote for completely removing the downed state. It only favors the group with larger numbers.

> > >

> > > You can be outnumbered and you outplay a group and you're punished by just having them get rezzed. It's terrible.

> >

> > I would argue that if you failed to suppress the ressers, you didnt outplay them to begin with.

> Yeah, that. The people who benefit most from the removal of down state are the people "skilled" enough to spike individual players down, but not actually skilled enough to finish them off before their allies come to their aid (and the ability to help your allies by getting them back on their feet is one of the big reasons downed state even exists).

Benefitting the larger group with instant rezzes is not "outplaying" or "outskilling" the smaller group. It's a mechanical limitation for those who are outnumbered.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"EvilSardine.9635" said:

> > > > Another vote for completely removing the downed state. It only favors the group with larger numbers.

> > > >

> > > > You can be outnumbered and you outplay a group and you're punished by just having them get rezzed. It's terrible.

> > >

> > > I would argue that if you failed to suppress the ressers, you didnt outplay them to begin with.

> > Yeah, that. The people who benefit most from the removal of down state are the people "skilled" enough to spike individual players down, but not actually skilled enough to finish them off before their allies come to their aid (and the ability to help your allies by getting them back on their feet is one of the big reasons downed state even exists).

> Benefitting the larger group with instant rezzes is not "outplaying" or "outskilling" the smaller group. It's a mechanical limitation for those who are outnumbered.

 

You're right, but it is a very important part of the GW2 culture. You're not alone. If you go down, someone can help you up again. If someone else goes down, you can help them back up.

 

Fostering the idea that "well 20 people spike focused you at the same time and that was your fault" isnt good. It happens already - people throw rallybots around and amazing elite "fight guilds" that are soooo helpfull and kind to pugs - and thats fine, but we shouldnt actively encourage it as part of the core gameplay experience. Its an MMO and your server is a community. Its not every ganker for themself. Thats why WvW has always been great.

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

I tend to agree with BlueMelody.6398.

 

WvW is opened to all types of players. A significant part of those are casual players, especially over the weekends. They come to WvW for all sort of reasons.They have no intention to learn anything and have no proper equipment. They just "pass by", for about 15 to 30 minutes, and they want it to be easy enough. They like to be in the middle of a huge zerg, giving them a feeling of security and power. They let themselves carried out by the zerg and enjoy it, what includes to be revived if they are in downstate.

 

If there is no more downstate, it will mean for those players to die continuously, and to have to redo the whole way up to the zerg (that can be quite long), what they mostly can't make due to roamers who easily kill them before zerg location. As a consequence, those players would most probably rapidly give up and stop coming to WvW. At first, reaction could be: "great, we would then be only with hardcore WvWers who know to play". But the problem is that WvW needs numbers and "new blood" continuously. And those players contribute to do the numbers as well as a potential new blood. We need them.

 

Personally, for myself, being a very lazy player, I prefer no downstate because I don't need to return back to finish each here and there! :p

However, considering how I myself changed from casual to hardcore, thanks to zerging in good conditions, and seeing how many of my friends react to WvW, I believe that the end of the downstate is a quite huge risk for a significant loss of players, what would probably be detrimental to the activity globally.

[SWI.4127]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> No, No Downstate still favors the bigger zerg. If anything, all it does is make people more cautious when engaging in a fight as far as zerging goes. The worst part of it is that it brings out all the Mesmers and Thieves that Stealth Gank people left and right. Rarely while I was participating in the No Downstate did I ever see a smaller group win against a larger group, and only then was because the larger group made a miscalculated bombing mistake. With Downstate you give a smaller group the capability to still be in the fight if they can manage to get their downed players up in time. Strategy comes into play with Downed state. There are several skills that allow players to place traps down on a downed player giving them the opportunity to take out more players that come to the aid of the downed to try to revive them. The reason why so many people liked No Downstate is the same reason they want to take away Sieges. It helps to level out the playing field against larger opponents. People want to win. By any means necessary. If that win is taken from them for some reason then they cry foul and moan and complain until it is removed so they can get their win. Nobody wants real balance in this game. They want whatever they can get to make it in their favor, plain and simple. Was Meteor Shower bugged? Yes. Was it OP? I don't think so. It finally gave Elementalists a reason to play and be useful in WvW again. Now look at them. Gutted and rarely used. Once again, it's Scourge Wars 2. Downstate is in the game for a reason just like Siege. It helps to balance out the game and level the playing field.

 

you lost all credibility when you said bugged meteor wasn't OP.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

> @"SWI.4127" said:

> > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > No, No Downstate still favors the bigger zerg. If anything, all it does is make people more cautious when engaging in a fight as far as zerging goes. The worst part of it is that it brings out all the Mesmers and Thieves that Stealth Gank people left and right. Rarely while I was participating in the No Downstate did I ever see a smaller group win against a larger group, and only then was because the larger group made a miscalculated bombing mistake. With Downstate you give a smaller group the capability to still be in the fight if they can manage to get their downed players up in time. Strategy comes into play with Downed state. There are several skills that allow players to place traps down on a downed player giving them the opportunity to take out more players that come to the aid of the downed to try to revive them. The reason why so many people liked No Downstate is the same reason they want to take away Sieges. It helps to level out the playing field against larger opponents. People want to win. By any means necessary. If that win is taken from them for some reason then they cry foul and moan and complain until it is removed so they can get their win. Nobody wants real balance in this game. They want whatever they can get to make it in their favor, plain and simple. Was Meteor Shower bugged? Yes. Was it OP? I don't think so. It finally gave Elementalists a reason to play and be useful in WvW again. Now look at them. Gutted and rarely used. Once again, it's Scourge Wars 2. Downstate is in the game for a reason just like Siege. It helps to balance out the game and level the playing field.

>

> you lost all credibility when you said bugged meteor wasn't OP.

 

It wasn't OP. People could move out of the Area of Effect. They could Dodge. People who weren't Glass Cannons could survive the hit, I did on my Trailblazer Ranger. Could the damage be toned down a little bit? Sure, but it shouldn't have been gutted as much as it was. Could MS have been put on a longer Cool Down to make it more balanced? Absolutely. Ele Meteor Shower was a counter to Scourge Zerg AoE's. It was nice actually having an answer to that face roll crap meta we have going on right now. I'm so sick and tired of Firebrand, Spellbreaker, Scourge Zergs it's not even funny. To say it was OP is wrong. It was strong, yes, but not OP.