GwAddict.9746 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"phs.6089" said: > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > Legendary armor/2nd Gen legendaries cannot be bought directly but gold drastically reduces the effort taken to obtain them. Buy gold, pay for carry to get the collections done and required amount of runs to get enough LI, buy rest of the materials from trading post. Now point out which part of this cannot be bought from gold (aka real money)? For gen 2 legendaries, buying all buyable crafting mats reduces the entire process to an extremely easy level. All you literally have to do is do HoT map completion, farm 250 crystalline ingots from DS and Gift of battle. Now compared to the someone who have to craft one ingame farming gemstones, t3-6 materials, 10k+ mithrils, elder wood, 250 mystic coins, 77 clovers, etc in addition to the ones mentioned > > > > Let's see what other "brilliant" logic you come up with. > > People that pay to be carried in dungeons will find a way, trust me. Pay with items from Cash Shop etc Let them find a way then. As long as it's not sanctioned by the company, it doesn't bother me since the game won't allow it directly. But right now as it stands, it's Anet directly allowing these stuffs to happen and devaluing their own game. > @"phs.6089" said: > Question here is why do you care what people are doing with their money? I'll repeat this gain. Legendary in game is NOT a BIS. There is nothing in game to allow you autowin, 1 vs 7, oneshot etc. > So why do you care of how many people will get legendary gear and how? > > > BTW to make legendary 2 you need full HoT masteries unlocked, that is a huge work. HUGE I don't care what other people do with their money as long as it's not gamebreaking. Allowing to buy gold gives a bad name and quite often the pay-to-win arguments arise due to this. Legendary in game is not BIS? What? They absolutely have ascended stats and stat swapping ability. Right, it's indeed huge which is even more huge for _non-paying players who has to farm the crafting materals and the buyable materials_ in addition to "full HoT masteries unlocked". Absolutely HUGE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > As far as gear, who cares? Longterm every dedicated player will have multiple sets anyway. If new players want to skip grind or rather spend money on getting gold instead of grinding due to limited playtime, so what? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You do realize this is exactly what Pay-to-win is, right? Being able to "skip" the grind by paying real life money instead of encouraging them to play to get Best in slot gear? Do you realize what happened to other games in this MMORPG genre which employed the same exact thing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I realize is you redefining what pay to win means. Pay to win often refers to mechanics and advantages which can not be gained without purchasing them for real money or which are so restrictive that they are close to not obtainable via in game means. Thus creating a necessity of spending money to stay competative. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think that a couple of hours to attain maximum ascended gear in an MMO can be considered pay to win if skipped, you should not be playing MMOs in the first place. In a game where 95% of the content does not even require (or is balanced around) this gear level non the less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest advantages in GW2 are actually from convenience items which are attainable via gems. Gear is absolutely insignificant gold and reward wise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not redifining anything. To me, it seems your definition is pretty outdated. Pay-to-win simply means giving statistical advantage (like BiS gear) for real life money regardless of how much time it takes to grind and ascended doesn't take 2 hours to get a full set. To many, grinding isn't favourable or doing daily tasks and hence why they justify the use of wallet to "skip" that part whereas the non-paying customer will have to go through the same grind to achieve it whether it takes months or years even if they don't like it JUST TO be on the same level statistically. **This is a big problem in WvW where gear isn't normalized and ascended provides extra stats through infusions (which can also be bought directly).** > > > > > > > > > > > > Outdated? Okay, so you agree that in the past pay to win had a differing meaning. > > > > > > > > > > > > What grinding? You must be new to the game and/or this must be your first MMO. The grind in this game is non-existent compared to industry standards. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, 95% of the games PVE content is balanced around rare and exotic gear (which takes less than 1 hour to get at level 80). > > > > > > > > > > > > The competitive game mode is 0 influenced by gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only place where gear might be of minor consequence is WvW, and that game mode is dictated by numbers per faction. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are simply new and want to complain about something because you don't have your shiny now. I'll repeat what I said 2 times already by now: GEAR IS INSIGNIFICANT AS GOLD PURCHASE in this game. You are simply comparing your new account to players who have probably played this game since launch. > > > > > > > > > > Anything that gives a player advantage which is buyable with gold (which is bought with real life money) is pay-to-win and this is exactly what I want this game to get rid off. This isn't some new definition although it might vary from person to person. > > > > > > > > > > What grind? Grinding for materials to get to crafting 500? Grinding for materials to refine them daily? Grinding for low tiers materials to craft the t7 ascended mats (ingots/bolts/cured leather)? _OR simply use CC and buy those from TP save yourself that_. The problem isn't the grind, the problem is the option to skip it in exchange of real life money. This isn't anything different to bribing in a real life situation where you "skip" the effort to get something done. > > > > > > > > > > Exotics and rares aren't BiS, so whether the game is balanced around them is moot point because statistically ascended will make it easier than exotics/rare in every content. Add +5 stat infusions to them and you get a pretty big stat bonus. > > > > > > > > > > Not all competitive modes. WvW is competitive by definition since it's a large scale **PvP** mode and there gears are NOT normalized. > > > > > > > > > > Numbers per faction/server/world matters as does other factors which includes gear. A zerg in full ascended with full +5 stats infusions will have a big advantage over a zerg with full exotics. Are you intentionally overlooking this fact? > > > > > > > > > > I'm not someone new and this has always bothered me ever since release. Now that other games in the same genre is abusing cash shops via similar methods for the past few years and killing themselves in the process it made me worried about this game because I have myself invest a lot of time and money in this game and don't want it to suffer a similar fate due to this. > > > > > > > > I'd do the math for you on how little hours that actually takes (I'll even take medium armor since it's the most expensive): > > > > Leatherworking 1-400 is 34 gold if fast crafted (26 gold if normal) > > > > Leatherworking 401-500 is 36 gold > > > > - Source http://gw2crafts.net/leatherworking.html > > > > > > > > A full set of Zojja's medium leather armor costs 290 gold > > > > - Source gw2efficiency > > > > > > > > **That's a total of 360 gold for an endgame set.** > > > > > > > > Even with only 10g per hour (RIBA is around 15-20 if you are unlucky) that's **less than 2 days farmed for a complete endgame set** which you will never have to upgrade again. In an MMO which people have sunk over 5k, 10k or even 15k hours. Where 95% of the content is balanced around rare and exotic gear. For the currently most expensive armor of the 3. > > > > > > And those consume time and effort which a paying customer is entirely skipping and that was the point of the thread. The amount of time skipped is absolutely irrelevant in obtaining BiS gear. Which part of that don't you understand again? > > > > The part which you don't get, your personal definition of pay to win does not match or is not the widely accepted for the term. The amount of time required in this game is insignificant compared both to other MMOs and the play time of the average player on the game. > > Kinda ironic that you're going on about your own personal definition and saying it isn't whereas other games are marked pay-to-win for the same stuff i.e. selling ingame currency for real life money. Whether it's insignifcant or not, that's a totally different subject and not the point of this thread. What matters is that money allows you to skip to end game BiS gear and get vast majority of the parts required to craft. Whether it's 1 day or 1 year is absolutely irrelevant when we are talking about best gear in the game. My personal definition is backed by most other users of this forum, and the perception of most established popular games with free to play models, but yes. It is 2 differing views. > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > Ascended weapons are even more hilarious with the vast amount which are given out FREE or cheaply from achievements: > > > > - Knight of the Thorn quest line > > > > - specialization weapons > > > > - some of the collection weapons which are easy to get > > > > > > > > and cost around 40-60 gold a piece IF one has to craft one. > > > > > > Nothing is given out for FREE if you have to put the effort in. The Knight of the Thorn quest line requires ingame effort and is rewarded appropriately for it. Same for specialization collections. Those are the ways it should have been done correctly. But for crafting? Swipe CC and get the ascended weapon immediately in very little time. Again, an advantage of paying customers over non-paying ones. > > > > The Knight of Thorn quest line takes 50 minutes and rewards an ascended best in slot weapon. I more and more believe you are simply playing the wrong type of game. This is a MMORPG, single player games are -> way. > > if something takes time why not let it remain obtainable that way? MMORPGs should reward effort for a quest or collection or whatever, not the amount of CC swiping you do to get the same BiS item. I'm not the one asking for it to be single player game nor was it the point of this thread. It's a matter of how much time it takes. The Knight of Thorn reward is in no relation to the reward achieved, thus it is a very popular quest to complete but also not to be the norm as far as rewards go. > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > My brilliant logic is this: I've actually done all of those things, multiple times and am fine with the system in place. You are merely complaining on something you have not ever completed. > > > > The materials in all of those collections were NEVER even remotely close to being the most annoying or time consuming aspect to get. You'd see that too if you actually spent some time on acquiring or working towards one of the items you speak about instead of theory-crafting. > > The materials in all of those collections (that's only applicable to first 4 gen 2 weapons mind you) because you most likely bought them with real money. For others, the materials become the main challenge instead of doing those collections. And for rest of the weapons, it's just straight up materials sink which costs 10k+ each of mithril/elder wood along with shittons of t5 materials for the precursor. All these can be bought with gold and real money consequently. > I have indeed bought some of the materials with gold I have made in game. It's because I rather play the game the way I want and then spend the gold I have made instead of personally farming each and every single material. That's called being efficient or selective in what you play. Doesn't change the fact that neither farming or gaining the gold or the materials which were purchasable was ever something which was close to the most annoying or most time consuming part. Any player who completes a legendary armor or trinket for example I'll know how much time has gone into making that, even if he were to have bought all materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GwAddict.9746 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said: > The actual legendaries still need full HoT masteries and full HoT map completion. The materials are really the smaller part. > > Edit: alternatively, PoF map completion and a huge amount of repeating PoF hearts for timegated stuff The thing is a non-paying player also has to complete it and I'd disagree that materials are the smaller part when you need 250 mystic coins, gemstones,77 clovers, bunch of t3-6 mats, etc. A paying player is essentially skipping all these to get to one of the endgame goals of GW2 where there no vertical gear progression after ascended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Remind me what someone is winning again before claiming P2W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GwAddict.9746 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > As far as gear, who cares? Longterm every dedicated player will have multiple sets anyway. If new players want to skip grind or rather spend money on getting gold instead of grinding due to limited playtime, so what? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You do realize this is exactly what Pay-to-win is, right? Being able to "skip" the grind by paying real life money instead of encouraging them to play to get Best in slot gear? Do you realize what happened to other games in this MMORPG genre which employed the same exact thing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I realize is you redefining what pay to win means. Pay to win often refers to mechanics and advantages which can not be gained without purchasing them for real money or which are so restrictive that they are close to not obtainable via in game means. Thus creating a necessity of spending money to stay competative. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think that a couple of hours to attain maximum ascended gear in an MMO can be considered pay to win if skipped, you should not be playing MMOs in the first place. In a game where 95% of the content does not even require (or is balanced around) this gear level non the less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The biggest advantages in GW2 are actually from convenience items which are attainable via gems. Gear is absolutely insignificant gold and reward wise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not redifining anything. To me, it seems your definition is pretty outdated. Pay-to-win simply means giving statistical advantage (like BiS gear) for real life money regardless of how much time it takes to grind and ascended doesn't take 2 hours to get a full set. To many, grinding isn't favourable or doing daily tasks and hence why they justify the use of wallet to "skip" that part whereas the non-paying customer will have to go through the same grind to achieve it whether it takes months or years even if they don't like it JUST TO be on the same level statistically. **This is a big problem in WvW where gear isn't normalized and ascended provides extra stats through infusions (which can also be bought directly).** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Outdated? Okay, so you agree that in the past pay to win had a differing meaning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What grinding? You must be new to the game and/or this must be your first MMO. The grind in this game is non-existent compared to industry standards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, 95% of the games PVE content is balanced around rare and exotic gear (which takes less than 1 hour to get at level 80). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The competitive game mode is 0 influenced by gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only place where gear might be of minor consequence is WvW, and that game mode is dictated by numbers per faction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are simply new and want to complain about something because you don't have your shiny now. I'll repeat what I said 2 times already by now: GEAR IS INSIGNIFICANT AS GOLD PURCHASE in this game. You are simply comparing your new account to players who have probably played this game since launch. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anything that gives a player advantage which is buyable with gold (which is bought with real life money) is pay-to-win and this is exactly what I want this game to get rid off. This isn't some new definition although it might vary from person to person. > > > > > > > > > > > > What grind? Grinding for materials to get to crafting 500? Grinding for materials to refine them daily? Grinding for low tiers materials to craft the t7 ascended mats (ingots/bolts/cured leather)? _OR simply use CC and buy those from TP save yourself that_. The problem isn't the grind, the problem is the option to skip it in exchange of real life money. This isn't anything different to bribing in a real life situation where you "skip" the effort to get something done. > > > > > > > > > > > > Exotics and rares aren't BiS, so whether the game is balanced around them is moot point because statistically ascended will make it easier than exotics/rare in every content. Add +5 stat infusions to them and you get a pretty big stat bonus. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not all competitive modes. WvW is competitive by definition since it's a large scale **PvP** mode and there gears are NOT normalized. > > > > > > > > > > > > Numbers per faction/server/world matters as does other factors which includes gear. A zerg in full ascended with full +5 stats infusions will have a big advantage over a zerg with full exotics. Are you intentionally overlooking this fact? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not someone new and this has always bothered me ever since release. Now that other games in the same genre is abusing cash shops via similar methods for the past few years and killing themselves in the process it made me worried about this game because I have myself invest a lot of time and money in this game and don't want it to suffer a similar fate due to this. > > > > > > > > > > I'd do the math for you on how little hours that actually takes (I'll even take medium armor since it's the most expensive): > > > > > Leatherworking 1-400 is 34 gold if fast crafted (26 gold if normal) > > > > > Leatherworking 401-500 is 36 gold > > > > > - Source http://gw2crafts.net/leatherworking.html > > > > > > > > > > A full set of Zojja's medium leather armor costs 290 gold > > > > > - Source gw2efficiency > > > > > > > > > > **That's a total of 360 gold for an endgame set.** > > > > > > > > > > Even with only 10g per hour (RIBA is around 15-20 if you are unlucky) that's **less than 2 days farmed for a complete endgame set** which you will never have to upgrade again. In an MMO which people have sunk over 5k, 10k or even 15k hours. Where 95% of the content is balanced around rare and exotic gear. For the currently most expensive armor of the 3. > > > > > > > > And those consume time and effort which a paying customer is entirely skipping and that was the point of the thread. The amount of time skipped is absolutely irrelevant in obtaining BiS gear. Which part of that don't you understand again? > > > > > > The part which you don't get, your personal definition of pay to win does not match or is not the widely accepted for the term. The amount of time required in this game is insignificant compared both to other MMOs and the play time of the average player on the game. > > > > Kinda ironic that you're going on about your own personal definition and saying it isn't whereas other games are marked pay-to-win for the same stuff i.e. selling ingame currency for real life money. Whether it's insignifcant or not, that's a totally different subject and not the point of this thread. What matters is that money allows you to skip to end game BiS gear and get vast majority of the parts required to craft. Whether it's 1 day or 1 year is absolutely irrelevant when we are talking about best gear in the game. > > My personal definition is backed by most other users of this forum, and the perception of most established popular games with free to play models, but yes. It is 2 differing views. Yes in a forum of the same very game where others who doesn't own the game can't voice their opinion on it. Not to mention only a minority of the entire playerbase uses this forum. > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > It's a matter of how much time it takes. The Knight of Thorn reward is in no relation to the reward achieved, thus it is a very popular quest to complete but also not to be **the norm as far as rewards go.** Thanks for proving my point. Crafting is the way to go and is repeatable unlike the knight of the thorn quest or any collections and real money absolutely reduces the effort and time taken to craft one. > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > I have indeed bought some of the materials with gold I have made in game. It's because I rather play the game the way I want and then spend the gold I have made instead of personally farming each and every single material. That's called being efficient or selective in what you play. > > Doesn't change the fact that neither farming or gaining the gold or the materials which were purchasable was ever something which was close to the most annoying or most time consuming part. > > Any player who completes a legendary armor or trinket for example I'll know how much time has gone into making that, even if he were to have bought all materials. The point is that you have the option to buy them with real money. Whenever anyone says legendary takes time and effort even if you buy mats, they're forgetting that for non-paying players they take even more and much more than paying ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanner Blackfeather.6509 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said: > > The actual legendaries still need full HoT masteries and full HoT map completion. The materials are really the smaller part. > > > > Edit: alternatively, PoF map completion and a huge amount of repeating PoF hearts for timegated stuff > > The thing is a non-paying player also has to complete it and I'd disagree that materials are the smaller part when you need 250 mystic coins, gemstones,77 clovers, bunch of t3-6 mats, etc. A paying player is essentially skipping all these to get to one of the endgame goals of GW2 where there no vertical gear progression after ascended. > Skipping a portion of the work isn't pay-to-win. Honestly, there are convenience items in the gem store that feels more pay-to-win (and still isn't close) than the gem>gold exchange. I can hardly imagine playing without my Salvage-o-matic! I definitely would be avoiding big metas like Tarir and Gerent a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsleep.7839 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 What advantages can be bought with the gem to gold conversion? Just saving time or is there something else I'm missing? And for what end you want this if there is no gear treadmill and "premium stats"? To make you feel like a special snowflake for "working hard" in a videogame? Because let's be honest, farming gold is more about spending time in the game doing braindead farms than doing anything actually hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GwAddict.9746 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said: > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said: > > > The actual legendaries still need full HoT masteries and full HoT map completion. The materials are really the smaller part. > > > > > > Edit: alternatively, PoF map completion and a huge amount of repeating PoF hearts for timegated stuff > > > > The thing is a non-paying player also has to complete it and I'd disagree that materials are the smaller part when you need 250 mystic coins, gemstones,77 clovers, bunch of t3-6 mats, etc. A paying player is essentially skipping all these to get to one of the endgame goals of GW2 where there no vertical gear progression after ascended. > > > > Skipping a portion of the work isn't pay-to-win. > > Honestly, there are convenience items in the gem store that feels more pay-to-win (and still isn't close) than the gem>gold exchange. I can hardly imagine playing without my Salvage-o-matic! I definitely would be avoiding big metas like Tarir and Gerent a lot more. We have to agree to disagree here then. Skipping a portion of the work to get statistically BiS gear is in a grey area and I can see arguments for both sides. If legendaries were just cosmetic skins, it wouldn't matter but they're actually gear with BiS stat. Same for ascended. > @"nsleep.7839" said: > What advantages can be bought with the gem to gold conversion? Just saving time or is there something else I'm missing? And for what end you want this if there is no gear treadmill and "premium stats"? To make you feel like a special snowflake for "working hard" in a videogame? Because let's be honest, farming gold is more about spending time in the game doing braindead farms than doing anything actually hard. 1st Legendaries? Crafting material for 2nd gen legendaries/armors/trinkets/ascended gear? +5 stat infusions? Achievements? Raid carries? Fractal CM carries? People forget there is indeed a gear treadmill in this game albeit a short one and ascended is the highest tier of it stat-wise. Isn't that point of playing MMORPG rather than a single player RPG to show off achievements and ingame rewards obtainable through ingame effort? Besides, farming gold promotes ingame activity (however braindead or boring it might be) rather than swiping CC and getting the amount. It'll also encourages the people who buys gemstore stuff using ingame gold to use money to make up the lost revenue selling gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgy McEdgelord.4790 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 No idea what makes you so angery about ascended gear being somewhat purchaseable (somewhat in the sense of 'you still have to level up a profession yourself') but I crafted my first full (!) ascended gear set within two weeks of me starting the game for the first time. It's not hard and thus, any argument regarding a gear treadmill is pointless to me. Oh and I also crafted a legendary weapon within 1 1/2 months and I did not buy a single item for it off the TP, it's all hand made and farmed by me. Such treadmill, much work, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Why remove a gem sinker of economy? if they did this crazyness, you can be sure that the ratio of items sold by the gemstore x items in game, would triple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algreg.3629 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 You keep claiming this model killed games, you bring up Archage. That is pure speculation, is there any proof this game was killed by what you claim it did? There are striving games that are heavily P2W. There are struggling and dead games without P2W. All in all, you strike me as someone who is overly concerned with how a game has to be played correctly and what other people do in general. Thing is, people are not thaaaaat interested in being told just that. There is a wide range of people playing this game. Some may not mind throwing thousands of dollars at it, others would consider that a waste of money or a devaluation of their game experience. Most people will probably fall in between. But I can assure you, not one of these is interested in you telling them how to use their real life money, in game gold or their time. Anet certainly isn`t interested in you as an advisor for their business model. I doubt you are really concerned for the game's future. This is probably just some private crusade against what you consider wrong in the gaming industry in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"nsleep.7839" said: > > What advantages can be bought with the gem to gold conversion? Just saving time or is there something else I'm missing? And for what end you want this if there is no gear treadmill and "premium stats"? To make you feel like a special snowflake for "working hard" in a videogame? Because let's be honest, farming gold is more about spending time in the game doing braindead farms than doing anything actually hard. > > 1st Legendaries? Crafting material for 2nd gen legendaries/armors/trinkets/ascended gear? +5 stat infusions? Achievements? Raid carries? Fractal CM carries? > People forget there is indeed a gear treadmill in this game albeit a short one and ascended is the highest tier of it stat-wise. **Isn't that point of playing MMORPG rather than a single player RPG to show off achievements and ingame rewards obtainable through ingame effort?** Besides, farming gold promotes ingame activity (however braindead or boring it might be) rather than swiping CC and getting the amount. It'll also encourages the people who buys gemstore stuff using ingame gold to use money to make up the lost revenue selling gold. > The point of playing a game is fun, for most people. If you want to attach your personal self worth to this you can do so. There is enough "worthwhile" achievements which can show others you have no-lifed out of this game just as many other MMOs. Only difference is, here this is not necessarily attached to gear (both as in a short grind to max gear as well as the ability to focus on content which you enjoy rather than grind away). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magek.4718 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I did the math, and buying a legendary with the gold exchange will cost you about $200. Now ask yourself, how many people do you know are willing to put down $200 for a single weapon? No one in the right state of mind, for sure. So you know, that's kind of a non-issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phs.6089 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > I don't care what other people do with their money as long as it's not gamebreaking. Allowing to buy gold gives a bad name and quite often the pay-to-win arguments arise due to this. > > Legendary in game is not BIS? What? They absolutely have ascended stats and stat swapping ability. > > Right, it's indeed huge which is even more huge for _non-paying players who has to farm the crafting materals and the buyable materials_ in addition to "full HoT masteries unlocked". Absolutely HUGE > > How is that a game-breaking? and no it's not a BiS, do google the meaning of 'gamebreaking' and 'BiS' you even say they have ascended stats, how is that makes it a BiS? if ascended is easy to get and has exactly the same stats? It WAS BiS, way back, where there was no ascended gear in game. No anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"phs.6089" said: > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > I don't care what other people do with their money as long as it's not gamebreaking. Allowing to buy gold gives a bad name and quite often the pay-to-win arguments arise due to this. > > > > Legendary in game is not BIS? What? They absolutely have ascended stats and stat swapping ability. > > > > Right, it's indeed huge which is even more huge for _non-paying players who has to farm the crafting materals and the buyable materials_ in addition to "full HoT masteries unlocked". Absolutely HUGE > > > > > > How is that a game-breaking? and no it's not a BiS, do google the meaning of 'gamebreaking' and 'BiS' > > you even say they have ascended stats, how is that makes it a BiS? if ascended is easy to get and has exactly the same stats? > > It WAS BiS, way back, where there was no ascended gear in game. No anymore > > Back then they had exotic stats, when ascended came out they where raised to have ascended stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"Hot Boy.7138" said: > > No. this game has to make money. How else will we continue to get updates and new content? > > By making money from selling cosmetics and ingame services like they do already. But you have already made a compelling argument that people would just move to illegal gold sellers. So, how that exactly would benefit Anet financially? > > I'd say this entire conversion system has been extremely detterent to the game in the long run Any proof for that, or is that just your completely unsubstantiated beliefs? Because i just can't see anything that would support your position. You _think_ that it's how it shoudl work, but there's no sign of it in the last 6 years. Have you considered, that your theory may simply not match with the reality? > Anet needs revenue to survive, yes, but going by the inflation of gold/gems conversion over 6 years, it's clear that far more people convert gold to gems than vice versa. On the contrary, the gem <-> gold prices are mostly stable, more stable than the actual ingame gold inflation to be honest (which also is really modest). > In other words, if this system never existed it'd have been more beneficial to Anet in the long run, giving them more revenue from selling these account services with real money. Every single gem bought with gold has been bought with real money first. The system has been specifically designed so that Anet simply _can't_ be losing revenue due to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Gems2Gold is what saves this game from being flooded by gold sellers. And if you think those bots we have now are a problem - you know nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odinens.5920 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I only read the 1st couple sentences of the OP's post, so I'll just comment up to that - No. So what if you can buy the mats to make stuff quicker. You still have to be able to make it, which means you still need to play the game like everyone else. Getting rid of the conversion is just inviting RMT, and THAT will be disastrous for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 @"GwAddict.9746" “In WvW, yes gear does matter and that's one of the main reason of this post. MMORPGs have been killed in the past due to them selling directly or indirectly top tier gears or other "pay-to-skip" methods which some companies have taken advantage of fully and hence why I'm voicing my opinion here.” There is an average of about 10%ish difference between exotic gear and ascended gear, and you can look up the various discussions and charts on the matter. That is hardly any noticeable difference in WvW... There are players who function just fine in blobs and roaming with exotic gear. Rune and sigil access is equal for both exotic and ascended. Ascended gear has slots for infusions, and that’s the largest advantage. And WvW specific infusions cannot be purchased with cash. Any player can have a full set of ascended gear (weapons, armors and trinkets) every couple months. And any player using any purchased legendary weapon(s), that carry ascended level stats, isn’t gaining some ground breaking advantage from that/those weapon(s) being used. As I said before, you’re trying to claim the game will die due to certain factors, but we have had these same discusssion back in 2012... The game is still here. The facts of these matters over 6 years prove your assessments wrong. These facts also clearly show that you can’t “win” this argument regardless of how you approach it, or what you try to spin to strengthen your position. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashabhi.1365 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > > If you remove gems->gold conversion, gems price will skyrocket without never decreasing anymore. > > Yeah people will be finally be able to spend real money for those account service/cosmetics instead like every other MMOs out there. The pay-to-win argument mainly comes from the gems --> gold conversion and this kind of model has killed games (see AA). Um... no.... AA was killed before it started. Alpha was incredibly fun and satisfying, but then they changed things before they actually launched. They added too many servers, then they dumbed everything down and handed out free armor so people could "catch up." Then there were the APEX dupes, hacks and severe P2W items in the cash shop. There was also no direct gold-to-cash shop currency conversion. You could swipe the card and buy APEX to sell to other players, or you could buy possibly illicit APEX from other players to convert to cash shop currency. If they decided the APEX you bought was fake, they would take everything you acquired after buying the APEX away from you. The final straw was that people had worked hard for a long time to get things they were proud of, only to have it all ripped from them when servers "evolved" (merged,) with no chance of getting what they had back. Sometimes more than once. Trust me when I say the cash shop conversion model itself wasn't the problem that killed it. The key here is that it's possible to get literally everything except skins and account boosts via in-game means. Nobody is forced to use the gold conversion mechanic in order to get mats for legendaries. Does it take longer and more work? Hells yeah, it does, but it's not simply a case of being unobtainable without the gem to gold conversion. What difference does it truly make that someone could potentially buy some materials and get their stuff sooner than another? I know a lot of people that are extremely effective in all aspects of the game in full exotics. Ascended gear doesn't make you any better of a player. Finally, I can't stress this enough: This is a system that works. The **_need_** for people to go to 3rd party gold sellers is simply not there. Will people still try to get a bargain? Of course they will. They will also risk losing not only their in-game stuff, but their real life bank account and credit scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 So far, the OP has reiterated misconceptions and personal preferences for game mechanics, all of which have been considered many times since before the game launched. If the OP seriously wants ANet to reconsider the gold:gem:gold exchange, then it's up to them to bring something new to the discussion. From ANet's point of view (and that of much of the community), the system works. Why would any successful business want to spend energy to do something else, without a compelling reason to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mea.5491 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 No. I live in a poor country so I never buy Gold with Gems but many people do. I wouldn't take this away from them because it's really easy to get BiS gear (Ascended) in this game so people who buy Gold with Gems don't really gain any advantage. Legendaries, QoL items and other fashion stuff are not needed for endgame. "This kind of conversion system have killed games" - GW2 is about to turn 6 and it's still one of the most popular MMOs. "This kind of conversion system" is definitely not killing THIS game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > Is it time to finally remove the gems (RL money) --> gold conversion? Only if they allow smaller steps for buying gems (e.g., in 5 EUR steps), or added the option to enter a custom amout of money that the buyer can decide upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > What's the worst that happens if this gets put in? I mean really, lets be honest, Anet has implemented some really bad ideas already, would it really kill them to remove the Gold/Gem trade? > > No it wouldn't but instead it'll wipe the pay-to-win stigma from this game which is why I'm worried about. Currently in WvW, gears matters and that's a PvP environment. > I was not aware there was any P2W stigma in this game. But that does not matter.. really.. what's the worst that happens if they do this? * They take enough a fiscal hit they have to let go a lot of staff that slows their content production? * They end up with a bunch of Gold Selling Bots, that drive away new players and lose money and reputation from that? * They have to spend extra money to combat gold selling and thus need to pull from development? * They close down from lack of Gem Sales? Really.. what's a worst case scenario from this idea going live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunjiKugashira.9754 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 #Why is this even an issue? IF GW2 was a game with a real gear treadmill where item stats are randomly rolled and getting BiS gear was extremely difficult, then I would agree that being able to buy said gear is pay to win. However this is a fictional scenario that doesn't reflect reality. Reality is that in GW2 it's increadibly easy to get BiS gear. With recent farm-spots it's now easier than ever. A person who spends money on gold doesn't usually have better gear than someone who farms for his gear and imo that's why the gem-gold exchange doesn't matter even if you lable it p2w. They have the same cap on stats as everyone else. #What would happen if the gem-gold & gold-gem exchange was removed from the game? 1. Rich players would loose a way to spend gems. This is a loss for ANet. 2. Poor players and players with too much ingame currency would loose a way to gain gems. Some of these might be inclined to spend cash on gems instead, but the majority would limit their gemstore purchases to a bare minimum. This is a minimal gain for ANet. 3. Players who don't have time for farming would be barred from getting BiS gear and would either miss out on the content they'd rather play instead of farming or just drop the game entirely. 4. Players who have enough ingame currency to equip multiple characters in full Asc anyways would feel proud and elated at being better than those rare- and exo-peasants. /sarcasm 5. Real money traders would rub their hands at the now inflated prices for gold and items. Their activity would skyrocket. 6. Goldsellers would spam players ingame at a frequency comparable to the days right after GW2's launch. 7. Account-theft would increase drastically. 8. There would be a giant shitstorm and players who are unhappy with the new direction would leave the game. From what I can see, the deficits would far outweight the benefits. *BiS = Best in Slot = There is no other gear that gives better stats. Using this definition I consider Ascended to be BiS and Legendary to be equal to Ascended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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