No jumping puzzles?

[ROMANG.1903]

> @"Blude.6812" said:

> > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely? Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

>

> Using mounts IS NOT cheating. Mounts are part of the game that people paid for with expansion purchases. And BTW, Mounts have been disabled in many JP which also tend to ruin/stop their use outside of JP when they are not being used in the JP itself. IMHO mounts should never be disabled anywhere on a map since they are one of the main reasons people bought the EXPs. It should be a players choice to use them or not if doesn't hurt you or the game. I am going to assume that you want mesmers disabled too.

 

It is cheating. You paid for having mounts everywhere except in those areas. Being able to bypass all of a puzzle's challenge if you paid the expansion would make this game a pay-to-win.

 

Your argument is completely wrong. If you don't want to do the jumping puzzle, don't do it, but don't expect to receive a free chest. It's like saying "I like fractals but there should be a way for people to get the rewards directly if they don't like them". No, you want the reward, you run do the related content.

 

And yes, i do have the unpopular opinion that teleportation skills in general, including mesmer portals, should be disabled in jumping puzzles.

> @"BlueJin.4127" said:

> It would be easy to create jumping puzzles without no mount zones. Simply create starting points and end points. Trigger the starting point, then get to end point without using a mount. If the player calls a mount at any point during, the player must restart from starting point. This way, players not doing jumping puzzles won't get randomly dismounted.

Part of the fun of being in a jumping puzzle is to know few people managed to reached that area. It's not all about the end reward. I personnally wouldn't run jumping puzzles if anyone could come there with their mount, even if I get a reward at the end. I am against this idea.

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

>

> No, a [mounts disabled](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mounts_Disabled "mounts disabled") zone is enough to disable them for the area. And maybe a special mounted JP could be possible as well.

>

Oh no trust me it isn't. I've managed to bypass 3 or 4 jumping puzzles so far without even trying too hard. The springer already makes it easy, but the griffon makes it ridiculous, just fly from a far away, high point then fly over your jumping puzzle. Then slowly go down until you get dismounted, if you're good or lucky you'll find a high enough point that you won't die from the fall damage, and you'll land just next to the end chest...

 

[kharmin.7683]

> @"ROMANG.1903" said:

Being able to bypass all of a puzzle's challenge if you paid the expansion would make this game a pay-to-win.

>

Pay to win what exactly from optional content that has trash rewards?

 

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

 

> Cheating and whether it breaks any rules are two entirely different things.

>

What??

 

 

[Dictionary.com - Cheat](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cheating "Dictionary.com - Cheat")

verb (used without object) to violate rules or regulations:

 

[JDub.1530]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > @"JDub.1530" said:

> > Frankly I was having fun cheesing some of the JPs with mounts. Especially ones they TRIED to block. lol What really bugs me is Dark Reverie. Not only because you have to do TWO JPs to do it (I've always hated that puzzle) but also because they were so overzealous, like 20% of Caledon is mount blocked.

>

> Yeah, those mount blocked zones should start above raptor leap height, IMO. You get dismounted and knocked down hard anyway once you enter them so it'd be nicer.

 

I've had the same thought. We already know those blocked zones don't have to go all the way to the ground.

 

> @"kurfu.5623" said:

> We can argue in circles about how many players either like or dislike JP's, but the fact is Anet has the numbers as to how many people actually do the puzzles, and may have decided it's not worth investing the resources to make new ones very often.

 

Or they just haven't had time to implement any in the new maps. IIRC, every JP since Dry Top have been long, involved and difficult. Surely that takes a lot of design time and a lot of testing.

[ROMANG.1903]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> Being able to bypass all of a puzzle's challenge if you paid the expansion would make this game a pay-to-win.

> >

> Pay to win what exactly from optional content that has trash rewards?

>

 

If it's optional and has trash rewards why do you want to bypass it?

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

Path of Fire and Living Story 4 are designed for mounts. So some of the puzzles include some skill with the mounts, often swaping mounts or not to use a mount at all. I often get asked why I spend so much time in the desert, people say it is just empty and they have done all the achievements long ago. The desert maps are filled with secret areas, puzzles and other exciting things. Sometimes I feel, some people just do not want to see them. Here is a little overview about the things I found in the Crystal Oasis so far:

- Sanctum of Nabkha: One of the most fun places in the PoF zones. Many people just skiped through it with the guides, because portal-mazes are often seen as a chore and not as a puzzle. Aside from that awesome architecture and for the Mastery Point and the Griffon Egg, more than one way to reach the goal.

- Kusini Water Hole: The ruins to the south which lead to the Sanctum of Nabkha have a very funny torch-puzzle. Good to do it with a friend.

- Branded Cave: North-west of the Teradohedron (Facet spawnpoint) where you have to follow a glowing orb from platfrom to platform to unlock a chest. Mounts do not really help there.

- Temple of Atar: Difficult to access on your first visit and heavily guarded. That early in the game you are mostly just obliterated and do not have enough time to loot the treasure.

- Tomb of the Abandoned: The hostile area on top of it also has some secret treasures and some tricky mob-mechanics. Even if you have access to stealth or perma-stability, it can be difficult to get that loot.

- Glint's Legacy: Difficult to reach. I consider it a small but tough mount-JP. Frustration is real. The area is also filled with treasure. (if you bother to walk the area with opened eyes)

- Temple of Kormir: Mostly the entire area, with the high cliffs arround. The puzzle with the three ghosts is pretty well done. The small tunnel to the north has a good treasure. Luckyly people are just too busy to look up while rushing through it.

- Kweli: Also near the village, but a little tricky to reach is a cave with treasure and some old "friends." Easily left unnoticed.

- Kusini Water Hole (again): The area south-west, on the other side of the mountains. Just talk to the skritt.

 

Again, this is just the Crystal Oasis, the first map of Path of Fire and it is literally filled with puzzles, secrets and treasures. I have not spent a single word about the Drelic Delves in Desert Highlands or the Boneyard in Vabbi, or even Zomorros Cave. I recently found a remote treasure chest high up in rata primus, accessible with a portal which only spawns after a certain boss. The chest was locked, and if noone of you spoils me with a direct dulfy/wiki-link to it I am going to figure it out myself.

 

Every map has its own puzzles. We are just no longer in core tyria. People need to walk the desert with opened eyes and an opened mind, or most of its secrets remain untouched.

 

[EDIT] Totally forgot about the secret-cat-room. If you remember the room in alpine borderlands where you can purchase the catmander-tag. There is a replica of that scene in the Crystal Oasis. XD

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

>

> > Cheating and whether it breaks any rules are two entirely different things.

> >

> What??

>

>

> [Dictionary.com - Cheat](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cheating "Dictionary.com - Cheat")

> verb (used without object) to violate rules or regulations:

>

 

Rules as in the ToS.

 

It’s cheating as jumping puzzles are each designed to be completed a specific way but the player is bypassing some parts, or the entire JP, by using something that was not originally accounted for in its initial design. It’s even more apparent if mounts are prohibited around the JP but people still find a way around it.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> >

> > > Cheating and whether it breaks any rules are two entirely different things.

> > >

> > What??

> >

> >

> > [Dictionary.com - Cheat](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cheating "Dictionary.com - Cheat")

> > verb (used without object) to violate rules or regulations:

> >

>

> Rules as in the ToS.

>

> It’s cheating as jumping puzzles are each designed to be completed a specific way but the player is bypassing some parts, or the entire JP, by using something that was not originally accounted for in its initial design. It’s even more apparent if mounts are prohibited around the JP but people still find a way around it.

 

Please show me in the ToS where this is so.

[ROMANG.1903]

> @"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:

> Path of Fire and Living Story 4 are designed for mounts. So some of the puzzles include some skill with the mounts, often swaping mounts or not to use a mount at all. I often get asked why I spend so much time in the desert, people say it is just empty and they have done all the achievements long ago. The desert maps are filled with secret areas, puzzles and other exciting things. Sometimes I feel, some people just do not want to see them. Here is a little overview about the things I found in the Crystal Oasis so far:

> - Sanctum of Nabkha: One of the most fun places in the PoF zones. Many people just skiped through it with the guides, because portal-mazes are often seen as a chore and not as a puzzle. Aside from that awesome architecture and for the Mastery Point and the Griffon Egg, more than one way to reach the goal.

> - Kusini Water Hole: The ruins to the south which lead to the Sanctum of Nabkha have a very funny torch-puzzle. Good to do it with a friend.

> - Branded Cave: North-west of the Teradohedron (Facet spawnpoint) where you have to follow a glowing orb from platfrom to platform to unlock a chest. Mounts do not really help there.

> - Temple of Atar: Difficult to access on your first visit and heavily guarded. That early in the game you are mostly just obliterated and do not have enough time to loot the treasure.

> - Tomb of the Abandoned: The hostile area on top of it also has some secret treasures and some tricky mob-mechanics. Even if you have access to stealth or perma-stability, it can be difficult to get that loot.

> - Glint's Legacy: Difficult to reach. I consider it a small but tough mount-JP. Frustration is real. The area is also filled with treasure. (if you bother to walk the area with opened eyes)

> - Temple of Kormir: Mostly the entire area, with the high cliffs arround. The puzzle with the three ghosts is pretty well done. The small tunnel to the north has a good treasure. Luckyly people are just too busy to look up while rushing through it.

> - Kweli: Also near the village, but a little tricky to reach is a cave with treasure and some old "friends." Easily left unnoticed.

> - Kusini Water Hole (again): The area south-west, on the other side of the mountains. Just talk to the skritt.

>

> Again, this is just the Crystal Oasis, the first map of Path of Fire and it is literally filled with puzzles, secrets and treasures. I have not spent a single word about the Drelic Delves in Desert Highlands or the Boneyard in Vabbi, or even Zomorros Cave. I recently found a remote treasure chest high up in rata primus, accessible with a portal which only spawns after a certain boss. The chest was locked, and if noone of you spoils me with a direct dulfy/wiki-link to it I am going to figure it out myself.

>

> Every map has its own puzzles. We are just no longer in core tyria. People need to walk the desert with opened eyes and an opened mind, or most of its secrets remain untouched.

 

If you would do me the honnor, I would be happy if you could spare time to show me some of those places.

[Zushada.6108]

> @"Endless Soul.5178" said:

> Probably from too many complaints after Chalice of Tears.

 

LOL I think Searing Ascent may have sent a few extra over the edge as well. :scream: But the one in Siren's Landing wasn't too bad.

 

LW4 does seem remarkably short of the token JPs though. Although I do like to live by the old saying "be careful what you wish for" :smile:

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > >

> > > > Cheating and whether it breaks any rules are two entirely different things.

> > > >

> > > What??

> > >

> > >

> > > [Dictionary.com - Cheat](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cheating "Dictionary.com - Cheat")

> > > verb (used without object) to violate rules or regulations:

> > >

> >

> > Rules as in the ToS.

> >

> > It’s cheating as jumping puzzles are each designed to be completed a specific way but the player is bypassing some parts, or the entire JP, by using something that was not originally accounted for in its initial design. It’s even more apparent if mounts are prohibited around the JP but people still find a way around it.

>

> Please show me in the ToS where this is so.

 

I never said that it was against the ToS hence the *“Cheating and whether it breaks any rules are two entirely different things“* statement.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > >

> > > > > Cheating and whether it breaks any rules are two entirely different things.

> > > > >

> > > > What??

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Dictionary.com - Cheat](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cheating "Dictionary.com - Cheat")

> > > > verb (used without object) to violate rules or regulations:

> > > >

> > >

> > > Rules as in the ToS.

> > >

> > > It’s cheating as jumping puzzles are each designed to be completed a specific way but the player is bypassing some parts, or the entire JP, by using something that was not originally accounted for in its initial design. It’s even more apparent if mounts are prohibited around the JP but people still find a way around it.

> >

> > Please show me in the ToS where this is so.

>

> I never said that it was against the ToS hence the *“Cheating and whether it breaks any rules are two entirely different things“* statement.

 

But yet, you seem to maintain that the use of mounts in jumping puzzles is cheating. Unless I'm reading this wrong?

[Kalendraf.9521]

I don't mind them adding new JPs as long as they are entirely optional. In other words, besides a possible single achievement for completing the new JP, there should be absolutely no other achievements or collections tied to it. It was really annoying having to do Chalice of Tears and Searing Ascent to obtain various items toward Aurora or having to do the Not So Hidden JP (actually above it, closer to the diving spot) for Bolt III: Zap collection. I'm fine with legendaries or various end-game collections requiring some degree of participation in the 3 game formats (PvE, WvW, PvP), but they shouldn't force players to do JPs to obtain them. Similarly, if there's a new map with a JP, that JP should not be required to obtain the overall completion.

[Lexi.1398]

Thre is a jp - sanctum of nabkah or something, kusini crossing / crystal oasis, but that's about it as far as jumping puzzles go, unless augury rock counts.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Lexi.1398" said:

> Thre is a jp - sanctum of nabkah or something, kusini crossing / crystal oasis, but that's about it as far as jumping puzzles go, unless augury rock counts.

 

Id think Augury rock would count as a mini dungeon more than anything.

[Algreg.3629]

> @"Endless Soul.5178" said:

> Probably from too many complaints after Chalice of Tears.

 

you sure told us, Mario :)

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Lexi.1398" said:

> > Thre is a jp - sanctum of nabkah or something, kusini crossing / crystal oasis, but that's about it as far as jumping puzzles go, unless augury rock counts.

>

> Id think Augury rock would count as a mini dungeon more than anything.

I'd say that [Augury Ascended](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elon_Riverlands_(achievements)#Augury_Ascended "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elon_Riverlands_(achievements)#Augury_Ascended") certainly is a JP that can rival many of the core JPs. It's not as huge and involved as some of the mosters (like chalice of tears), but rather decently sized and possible (although not necessarily easy) even for those of us that aren't all that great at precision jumping.

 

[Walk a Fine Line](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Path_of_Fire:_Act_2#Walk_a_Fine_Line "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Path_of_Fire:_Act_2#Walk_a_Fine_Line") is another PoF jp, this one as part of a story mission. Just like the HoT jps, these aren't in a dedicated jumping puzzle achievement category, but except for that they certainly have all the characteristics of jumping puzzles just like we've known them from the beginning of the game.

[Algreg.3629]

the whole claim "CoT complaints killed JPs" is simply preposterous. There have been JP after Ember Bay. There have been lots and lots of JP like challenges since then, half of the Draconis Mons achievements are JP like. There have been new achievements been tied to old JP. One could argue the whole PoF expansion is heavily ladden with challenges of mobility as you unlock the mounts. This is just kitten, dust kicking moping, and this kitten represents an adjective related to liquid waste disposal.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

> @"Endless Soul.5178" said:

> > @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > I'm good with no more jumping puzzles.

>

> Well thanks for ruining the fun for the rest of us that like them.

 

@"DeanBB.4268" isn't ruining anything. Some players just don't like them. That does not mean that they should not be in the game. Some players don't like PvP because they dislike their characters being murdered all the time. Well, rightfully so. Let them stay out of the content and play the parts of the game they actually enjoy. But tis does not meant that PvP should be removed from the game.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

> @"Endless Soul.5178" said:

> Probably from too many complaints after Chalice of Tears.

 

I'm still crying. Especially because the legendary trinket is linked to it.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Cheating and whether it breaks any rules are two entirely different things.

> > > > > >

> > > > > What??

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Dictionary.com - Cheat](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cheating "Dictionary.com - Cheat")

> > > > > verb (used without object) to violate rules or regulations:

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Rules as in the ToS.

> > > >

> > > > It’s cheating as jumping puzzles are each designed to be completed a specific way but the player is bypassing some parts, or the entire JP, by using something that was not originally accounted for in its initial design. It’s even more apparent if mounts are prohibited around the JP but people still find a way around it.

> > >

> > > Please show me in the ToS where this is so.

> >

> > I never said that it was against the ToS hence the *“Cheating and whether it breaks any rules are two entirely different things“* statement.

>

> But yet, you seem to maintain that the use of mounts in jumping puzzles is cheating. Unless I'm reading this wrong?

 

Because it is as the jumping puzzles were not designed with them in mind and you can bypass some or all of the jumping puzzle.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely?

 

The last two where horrendous, so maybe the devs didn't appreciate the criticism? ;) I am just disappointed that there is none in the Labyrinthine Cliffs.

 

> Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

 

No, it's easy to bar mounts from certain areas.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > @"Blude.6812" said:

> > > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > > Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely? Is it too hard to prevent cheating with mounts?

> >

> > Using mounts IS NOT cheating. Mounts are part of the game that people paid for with expansion purchases. And BTW, Mounts have been disabled in many JP which also tend to ruin/stop their use outside of JP when they are not being used in the JP itself. IMHO mounts should never be disabled anywhere on a map since they are one of the main reasons people bought the EXPs. It should be a players choice to use them or not if doesn't hurt you or the game. I am going to assume that you want mesmers disabled too.

>

> But then that means you have to design JPs around Mounts, which automatically renders it unplayable by people with out POF. Soon as next expansion hits, thats now forcing players to buy POF just to do the jumpping puzzles.

 

That would be a valid argument, **IF** you didn't need PoF to access the new maps anyway. That just makes it a poor argument. And i'll tell you it took me a lot of willpower to be that polite.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > Since Living World 3.6 came out there hasn't been any new jumping puzzle of what I know of, in PoF or in Living World 4... Was the idea abandoned completely?

>

> The last two where horrendous, so maybe the devs didn't appreciate the criticism? ;) I am just disappointed that there is none in the Labyrinthine Cliffs.

 

I thought the one in Orr was well received as it didn’t really rely on precision jumping for the most part compared to the previous two for that season (Ep 2 and Ep5?).

 

 

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Cheating and whether it breaks any rules are two entirely different things.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > What??

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Dictionary.com - Cheat](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cheating "Dictionary.com - Cheat")

> > > > > > verb (used without object) to violate rules or regulations:

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Rules as in the ToS.

> > > > >

> > > > > It’s cheating as jumping puzzles are each designed to be completed a specific way but the player is bypassing some parts, or the entire JP, by using something that was not originally accounted for in its initial design. It’s even more apparent if mounts are prohibited around the JP but people still find a way around it.

> > > >

> > > > Please show me in the ToS where this is so.

> > >

> > > I never said that it was against the ToS hence the *“Cheating and whether it breaks any rules are two entirely different things“* statement.

> >

> > But yet, you seem to maintain that the use of mounts in jumping puzzles is cheating. Unless I'm reading this wrong?

>

> Because it is as the jumping puzzles were not designed with them in mind and you can bypass some or all of the jumping puzzle.

 

Ok, and how does other players bypassing optional content adversely affect anyone else? Why should it matter? Use of mounts to complete jumping puzzles in no way prevents others from accomplishing the same without using them.