Deadeye must be nerfed

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > Let's nerf Deadeye then complain when the bunker meta returns because the thieves don't lend their services to pvp anymore, instead of telling people to dodge or learn how malice works..

> >

> > (#)Whydidntyoudodge

> > (#)DamnyouPavlov

>

> What is a rev doing? What is core guard doing? What is mantra mirage doing? What is Soulbeast doing?

>

> Bunker meta ain't returning any time soon.

 

I understand that,

I'm just... concerned. There's people trying to cut damage back -because- they want to return to that meta, as you can see. We need to differentiated between

"busted because its clearly overpowered" vs "busted because I didnt dodge."

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"SweetPotato.7456" said:

> I don't mind deadeye if they play "fairly" and I can't really know if they are playing fairly since I don't know thief at all because I play my thief like I play my other profession hehehe :bleep_bloop: .

>

> But I do come across quite a handful of these "thief" or "deadeye" who are 99% invisible, even when they are doing the finisher*, they are invisible, even after they step in your many necro marks they are invisible, you know they are there because they appear for a brief moment when the marks were triggered , but some how they get to "marked" you and went into invisibility again and then your dead.

>

> ^^ how do you even counter that?

>

> PS: need to take away the ability to finish off a down player on all professions in invisible mode, same goes to engineer that goes mini mode / elixir mode

> because when you are down that is the chance you were given to fight to rally, having an opponent that you can rally off is really just does not make sense.

 

no, please dont take away the ability to finish players while stealthed. most classes besides guard and rev are very deadly when down.

 

i mean if we take away stealth when finishing, we should take away invulns, blurs, shrinking, stability, gyros, and the like.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"SweetPotato.7456" said:

 

> PS: need to take away the ability to finish off a down player on all professions in invisible mode, same goes to engineer that goes mini mode / elixir mode

> because when you are down that is the chance you were given to fight to rally, having an opponent that you can rally off is really just does not make sense.

 

I wanna address the last part first. Invisible stomps are one of the only ways thieves -can- get stomps on people because oftentimes they are so squishy that they can be cleaved into downstate by anyone nearby aware of their presence. I understand the concept of rallying, but that nuance is in place to ensure thieves can kill players they down without being downed themselves by target autos or some errant passerby. Keep in mind a downed player on a node still counts as contesting it, and that if thieves have to struggle to auto players down out of range because downstate autos sap their health, they are both losing the point -and- inviting someone to come rally them.

 

It may look unfair up close, but across the board that's there for a reason. Have a mock battle on your thief and see how hard it is to finish people without a stealth stomp in a firefight.

 

 

> But I do come across quite a handful of these "thief" or "deadeye" who are 99% invisible, even when they are doing the finisher*, they are invisible, even after they step in your many necro marks they are invisible, you know they are there because they appear for a brief moment when the marks were triggered , but some how they get to "marked" you and went into invisibility again and then your dead.

 

Again, have a mock battle on your thief. you're probably witnessing shadow melds/silent scope play. since they are invisible, the only way to know what they are doing is to either spectate one in a pvp room or see what combinations of skills lead to that effect. They have rules they have to obey in stealth if they want to hit you with heavy moves. If you learn what each move looks like/sounds like, you can predict what the majority of them will do next.

 

[blackheartgary.8605]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> The tell is obvious is irrelevant. There should be no attack in pvp that one shots ever, that's the issue.

but that's the thing, DJ is not a one shot skill. yes it is unblockable. but it has to be built up. if the work up can be avoided, Dj won't matter. there is enough counters out there, including dodging, reflection of projectiles, or even getting up close and weed hacking the deadeye to death that can remove the possibility of DJ from firing off.

that said... at gold level if a deadeye can get dj off more power to them.

 

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

Let's say they put a 5-10 second ICD on the stealth on dodge. Fair trade would be to make the trait affect all weapon sets IMO

[cyberzombie.7348]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> Let's say they put a 5-10 second ICD on the stealth on dodge. Fair trade would be to make the trait affect all weapon sets IMO

 

They did put a cd for the silent scope trait in the beginning of the class rework. Not sure why they removed it.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> Let's say they put a 5-10 second ICD on the stealth on dodge. Fair trade would be to make the trait affect all weapon sets IMO

 

there was a 10s cd, sure it was resetable but there and it got removed. you still invest a dodge for stealth (rarely dodging an actual attack for it, more often just for the stealth) and often you use it to prestealth in wich case you start the fight with less endurance than most others. it is also often your only way to get rid of pressure while on rifle. the other sets have more build in defense with either interrupts, blinds, evades , teleports or other stealth. you dont need stealth on dodge on them as much as on rifle.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > Let's say they put a 5-10 second ICD on the stealth on dodge. Fair trade would be to make the trait affect all weapon sets IMO

>

> there was a 10s cd, sure it was resetable but there and it got removed. you still invest a dodge for stealth (rarely dodging an actual attack for it, more often just for the stealth) and often you use it to prestealth in wich case you start the fight with less endurance than most others. it is also often your only way to get rid of pressure while on rifle. the other sets have more build in defense with either interrupts, blinds, evades , teleports or other stealth. you dont need stealth on dodge on them as much as on rifle.

 

Make stealth use stamina bar xD like energy works for revenant skills.

[Legatus.3608]

I'm just going to leave this here

 

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

>

> Death's Judgement having a SFX and visual is more counterplay than I'm used to TBH

>

 

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"SweetPotato.7456" said:

> I don't mind deadeye if they play "fairly" and I can't really know if they are playing fairly since I don't know thief at all **because I play my thief like I play my other profession** hehehe :bleep_bloop: .

>

> But I do come across quite a handful of these "thief" or "deadeye" who are 99% invisible, even when they are doing the finisher*, they are invisible, **even after they step in your many necro marks they are invisible**, you know they are there because they appear for a brief moment when the marks were triggered , but some how they get to "marked" you and went into invisibility again and then your dead.

>

> ^^ **how do you even counter that?**

 

Your post seems to point to two different problems you're experiencing, so I'll try to address those, as unpleasant as the answers may be...

 

1. You play your Thief like your other profession. As you said, you don't know Thief at all, so it's easy to make that mistake. Just be aware that the Thief is absolutely unique in this game, especially in PvP. It's extremely fragile, and it cannot trade blows against anyone save for another Thief. It's a hit-and-run class. You have to choose your battles. Stealth and mobility allow you to do that a lot, though not as much as people believe. You also have to know when to stop attacking so you can get the heck out of Dodge... which is usually after you take one hit or stun. You must ALWAYS keep your finger on a stun break, and hit it at a moment's notice.

 

If you really want to learn the Thief, I'd suggest you dive head first into it. Go into custom arenas or unranked, and take Dagger/Pistol and Shortbow. Choose the Berserker amulet. Make sure to take Withdraw, Roll for Initiative, Blinding Powder (or Haste), Shadow Step, and Basilisk Venom. Choose Deadly Arts 2-2-3, Critical Strikes 1-2-1, and Trickery 3-1-2 (or 3-2-2 for condition clears). This makes you a Glass Cannon, and you will die A LOT. But your reflexes will improve. You will develop a "Spidey Sense." When you learn how to fight and survive with this build, you will be ready to play the standard Marauder Thief... and it will feel like easy-mode.

 

2. Your Necromancer dies to Thieves. That is because a Rifle or Pistol/Pistol Thief eats Necros for breakfast. It has become one of the few match-ups where a Thief can have a natural advantage. But things will change. In the past, it was Warriors and Mesmers that Thieves hunted. That is no longer the case.

[Poledra Val.1490]

I feel being able to shoot from stealth is just utterly broken but futher more when you can crit almost 15k via judges and while your in stealth is just so very stupid, there is no counter play to that no matter how good you are.

 

Best example is when say your team just wins a team fight your sitting on node capping it with a little under 15k health (from the afore mentioned team fight) and some snotty deadeye comes and kills you from stealth. How delightful. What great pvp mechanics. Nerf the damage or make sure judges costs the thief something when its used.

[bennypig.6428]

Lol people complaining just think about it. If it is strong and even viable, why isnt it in every top tier pvp games like Spellbreaker, Mirage, FB or core guardian? Because deadeye is not OP! Once deadeye faces good players, they contributes very low to their team unlike S/D or D/P thief.

Just answer it yourself: why is Deadeye not prevalent in high tier pvp, even S/D and D/P are more popular in those games?

[Arioch.4810]

I would like to see some tweaks to DE - giving him more tools for combat in higher divisions, while changing his mechanic in a manner that would be less annoying to opponents.

 

DE may not be the "meta" pick but if it's giving bad experience to players that are progressing to higher divisions, it should be changed. We don't want bad games souring experience for part of playerbase - it could impact number of PvPers. (this is my view for all builds that aggravates players with 100-0 bombs etc. it's not important how good is that combo in high tier play, but what does it do to enjoyment of matches for average player)

 

For my 2 cents, i thing DE is weak ATM (i play s/d thief and Mirage lately, 0 issues with DE thiefs, heck i will accept some 1v2s against them)