Fresh Air weaver was OP and had to be nerfed...Deadeye burst from stealth and 1500 is fine

[Arheundel.6451]

Here my second thread from the topic : " If it's good eles can't have it", another example of double standards, personal bias and what more . No point in pointless banter and chit chat so I will get straight to the point :

 

1) FA weaver:

- 900 range

- no stealth

- no sustain

Got nerfed down to basement level

 

2) Deadeye rifle:

- 1500 range

- stealth

- reveal remover

- teleport

- weapon swap

It's fine for Anet

 

No please...spare me the L2P comments, I am not really concerned about deadeye more than the next guy...

**NOTE : THIS IS NOT A DEADEYE NERF THREAD SO ALL THIEVES CAN SPARE ME THEIR L2P COMMENTS TY**

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> No please...spare me the L2P comments, I am not really concerned about deadeye more than the next guy...

 

Personal bias has almost always been a thing with ArenaNet balancing professions. Personally, I haven't had many problems fighting deadeyes as they are fairly easy to kill, but what irritates the most is the long stealth duration and just how insultingly easy it is to pull off compared to what d/p thieves have to do for the exact same thing.

[Delweyn.1309]

But it's nethertheless a L2P issue. Because some players can counter it, not other. It's obvious.

It's the same for many other mecanics, other OS attacks.

[Coolguy.8702]

Fa weaver was way more op than de. It actually saw use in tourneys. It also had less tells than de does which made them infuriating to fight against. Also, that weaver build had both a teleport and weapon swap, please stop spouting nonsense

[Vornollo.5182]

Right so... Another "everyone should be countered by ~*insert your prefered profession/build*~ because **reasons that don't actually match the reality**" sort of topic... Fun with Falsehoods.

Should make a show out of that... "Fun with Falsehoods".

 

You can Port with FA Weaver too. Blink and depending on your weapons, also on your weaponskills.

You do got sustain, you got Blocks, you can use invulnerabilities, you got access to Protection, Stability. Also Waterfields and combo finishers and the like, oh and some barrier is thrown in there as well.

Oh, you could also depending on your build put up Swirling Winds and such.

 

There's options for everyone to deal with DE's...

I've got my own gripes with the DE profession/Spec, a variety of it's aspects, feel free to check it in my history.

Not to say it's fair, but wahey. Every profession/build has it's weaknesses and counters. If yours is Rifle DE as an FA Weaver, then well... I'm really at a bit of a loss and I truly got to say it's your common "L2P" sort of issue, wether you can admit it or not.

 

EDIT:

D/P Thieves can also play DE.

D/P Thieves who **choose** not to do so, usually do this because stealth isn't nearly as useful as people make it out to be, in PvP.

The general conclusion for pretty much the entirety of the Thief community (*there's always exceptions, ofcourse*) agrees that D/P Daredevil and Core S/D are better suited for PvP because of their increased Mobility over the Rifle (or D/P) Deadeye builds out there.

Read that..? **Mobility**, not Stealth. Mobility.

 

Try to cap a Node in Stealth, should be fun.

DE's also rotate quite slow, they won't spec into Acrobatics for the Swiftness unless they really run a gimmick build. The 50% increased movement speed in Shadow Arts is also pointless because you got to spend time stacking stealth, usually in the same area. By the time you can move, the point of the increased speed has been rendered obsolete.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> Fa weaver was way more op than de. It actually saw use in tourneys. It also had less tells than de does which made them infuriating to fight against. Also, that weaver build had both a teleport and weapon swap, please stop spouting nonsense

 

What weapon swap on ele? what tournie? If you're looking for tournies with DE go look at last AT....FA weaver in tournies? China servers maybe?

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Delweyn.1309" said:

> But it's nethertheless a L2P issue. Because some players can counter it, not other. It's obvious.

> It's the same for many other mecanics, other OS attacks.

 

Was a L2P issue for FA weaver too...only you deluded yourself in thinking otherwise

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Vornollo.5182" said:

> Right so... Another "everyone should be countered by because **reasons that don't actually match the reality**" sort of topic... Fun.

>

> You can Port with FA Weaver too. Blink and depending on your weapons, also on your weaponskills.

> You do got sustain, you got Blocks, you can use invulnerabilities, you got access to Protection, Stability. Also Waterfields and combo finishers and the like, oh and some barrier is thrown in there as well.

> Oh, you could also depending on your build put up Swirling Winds and such.

>

> There's options for everyone to deal with DE's...

> I've got my own gripes with the DE profession, a variety of it's aspects, feel free to check it in my history.

> Not to say it's fair, but wahey. Every profession/build has it's weaknesses and counters. If yours is Rifle DE as an FA Weaver, then well... I'm really at a bit of a loss and I truly got to say it's your common "L2P" sort of issue, wether you can admit it or not.

>

> EDIT:

> D/P Thieves can also play DE.

> D/P Thieves who **choose** not to do so, usually do this because stealth isn't nearly as useful as people make it out to be, in PvP.

> The general conclusion for pretty much the entirety of the Thief community (*there's always exceptions, ofcourse*) agrees that D/P Daredevil and Core S/D are better suited for PvP because of their increased Mobility over the Rifle (or D/P) Deadeye builds out there.

> Read that..? **Mobility**, not Stealth. Mobility.

 

Already stated in the OP that I didn't want waste time commenting on all the l2p arguments from all the zealots playing DE rushing to defend their cheese, keep it! I am drawing a comparison...not suggesting to nerf your cheese as I don't care, it's irrelevant as build to me

[Vornollo.5182]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Vornollo.5182" said:

> > Right so... Another "everyone should be countered by because **reasons that don't actually match the reality**" sort of topic... Fun.

> >

> > You can Port with FA Weaver too. Blink and depending on your weapons, also on your weaponskills.

> > You do got sustain, you got Blocks, you can use invulnerabilities, you got access to Protection, Stability. Also Waterfields and combo finishers and the like, oh and some barrier is thrown in there as well.

> > Oh, you could also depending on your build put up Swirling Winds and such.

> >

> > There's options for everyone to deal with DE's...

> > I've got my own gripes with the DE profession, a variety of it's aspects, feel free to check it in my history.

> > Not to say it's fair, but wahey. Every profession/build has it's weaknesses and counters. If yours is Rifle DE as an FA Weaver, then well... I'm really at a bit of a loss and I truly got to say it's your common "L2P" sort of issue, wether you can admit it or not.

> >

> > EDIT:

> > D/P Thieves can also play DE.

> > D/P Thieves who **choose** not to do so, usually do this because stealth isn't nearly as useful as people make it out to be, in PvP.

> > The general conclusion for pretty much the entirety of the Thief community (*there's always exceptions, ofcourse*) agrees that D/P Daredevil and Core S/D are better suited for PvP because of their increased Mobility over the Rifle (or D/P) Deadeye builds out there.

> > Read that..? **Mobility**, not Stealth. Mobility.

>

> Already stated in the OP that I didn't want waste time commenting on all the l2p arguments from all the zealots playing DE rushing to defend their cheese, keep it! I am drawing a comparison...not suggesting to nerf your cheese as I don't care, it's irrelevant as build to me

 

Oh no! Falsehoods have been presented! OP has been exposed!

This was fun :)

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Vornollo.5182" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"Vornollo.5182" said:

> > > Right so... Another "everyone should be countered by because **reasons that don't actually match the reality**" sort of topic... Fun.

> > >

> > > You can Port with FA Weaver too. Blink and depending on your weapons, also on your weaponskills.

> > > You do got sustain, you got Blocks, you can use invulnerabilities, you got access to Protection, Stability. Also Waterfields and combo finishers and the like, oh and some barrier is thrown in there as well.

> > > Oh, you could also depending on your build put up Swirling Winds and such.

> > >

> > > There's options for everyone to deal with DE's...

> > > I've got my own gripes with the DE profession, a variety of it's aspects, feel free to check it in my history.

> > > Not to say it's fair, but wahey. Every profession/build has it's weaknesses and counters. If yours is Rifle DE as an FA Weaver, then well... I'm really at a bit of a loss and I truly got to say it's your common "L2P" sort of issue, wether you can admit it or not.

> > >

> > > EDIT:

> > > D/P Thieves can also play DE.

> > > D/P Thieves who **choose** not to do so, usually do this because stealth isn't nearly as useful as people make it out to be, in PvP.

> > > The general conclusion for pretty much the entirety of the Thief community (*there's always exceptions, ofcourse*) agrees that D/P Daredevil and Core S/D are better suited for PvP because of their increased Mobility over the Rifle (or D/P) Deadeye builds out there.

> > > Read that..? **Mobility**, not Stealth. Mobility.

> >

> > Already stated in the OP that I didn't want waste time commenting on all the l2p arguments from all the zealots playing DE rushing to defend their cheese, keep it! I am drawing a comparison...not suggesting to nerf your cheese as I don't care, it's irrelevant as build to me

>

> Oh no! Falsehoods have been presented! OP has been exposed!

> This was fun :)

 

The only fun thing is are the zealots rushing in with all their L2P arguments, this is a staple of every profession community...does the tune ever change?

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> Here my second thread from the topic : " If it's good eles can't have it", another example of double standards, personal bias and what more . No point in pointless banter and chit chat so I will get straight to the point :

>

> 1) FA weaver:

> - 900 range

> - no stealth

> - no sustain

 

Has 4x stun breaks (1 passive if the run lesser sheuld) , 2x invul also a port - same health as a thief - nothing to reflect back and can do the burst the moment you're in range pretty sure Los didn't effect this so much neither or at least in wvw you can burst behind obstacles.

 

 

> 2) Deadeye rifle:

> - 1500 range

> - stealth

> - reveal remover

> - teleport

> - weapon swap

 

Ok all true for de. Most can be reflected most PvP maps are crowded with stuff to hide behind as well

 

 

[Math.5123]

My biggest gripe with DE is rifle 4 mobility, it lets them ditch shortbow for another weapon set. While still pumping out unreal damage.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > Here my second thread from the topic : " If it's good eles can't have it", another example of double standards, personal bias and what more . No point in pointless banter and chit chat so I will get straight to the point :

> >

> > 1) FA weaver:

> > - 900 range

> > - no stealth

> > - no sustain

>

> Has 4x stun breaks (1 passive if the run lesser sheuld) , 2x invul also a port - same health as a thief - nothing to reflect back and can do the burst the moment you're in range pretty sure Los didn't effect this so much neither or at least in wvw you can burst behind obstacles.

>

>

> > 2) Deadeye rifle:

> > - 1500 range

> > - stealth

> > - reveal remover

> > - teleport

> > - weapon swap

>

> Ok all true for de. Most can be reflected most PvP maps are crowded with stuff to hide behind as well

>

>

 

4x stunbreaks? 2x invulnerabilities? LoS didn't affect it?.........what?

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > Here my second thread from the topic : " If it's good eles can't have it", another example of double standards, personal bias and what more . No point in pointless banter and chit chat so I will get straight to the point :

> > >

> > > 1) FA weaver:

> > > - 900 range

> > > - no stealth

> > > - no sustain

> >

> > Has 4x stun breaks (1 passive if the run lesser sheuld) , 2x invul also a port - same health as a thief - nothing to reflect back and can do the burst the moment you're in range pretty sure Los didn't effect this so much neither or at least in wvw you can burst behind obstacles.

> >

> >

> > > 2) Deadeye rifle:

> > > - 1500 range

> > > - stealth

> > > - reveal remover

> > > - teleport

> > > - weapon swap

> >

> > Ok all true for de. Most can be reflected most PvP maps are crowded with stuff to hide behind as well

> >

> >

>

> 4x stunbreaks? 2x invulnerabilities? LoS didn't affect it?.........what?

 

Thought you was an ele? And i meant to say 3 stun breaks 2x twist of faith lesser arcane shield and some take mist form, so there is your 3 - 4. Mist form and earth #5 2x invul are they not? At least vs power dmg.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > Here my second thread from the topic : " If it's good eles can't have it", another example of double standards, personal bias and what more . No point in pointless banter and chit chat so I will get straight to the point :

> > > >

> > > > 1) FA weaver:

> > > > - 900 range

> > > > - no stealth

> > > > - no sustain

> > >

> > > Has 4x stun breaks (1 passive if the run lesser sheuld) , 2x invul also a port - same health as a thief - nothing to reflect back and can do the burst the moment you're in range pretty sure Los didn't effect this so much neither or at least in wvw you can burst behind obstacles.

> > >

> > >

> > > > 2) Deadeye rifle:

> > > > - 1500 range

> > > > - stealth

> > > > - reveal remover

> > > > - teleport

> > > > - weapon swap

> > >

> > > Ok all true for de. Most can be reflected most PvP maps are crowded with stuff to hide behind as well

> > >

> > >

> >

> > 4x stunbreaks? 2x invulnerabilities? LoS didn't affect it?.........what?

>

> Thought you was an ele? And i meant to say 3 stun breaks 2x twist of faith lesser arcane shield and some take mist form, so there is your 3 - 4. Mist form and earth #5 2x invul are they not? At least vs power dmg.

 

So you take all defensive utilities? lol ok...now on which bar you find the teleport and arcane blast used by FA weaver? You did good listing all defensive utilities ...now correspond everything to the actual build that used to do the dmg

[Vornollo.5182]

Oh no... I take no defensive utilities and I get blown up by a glasscannon spec...

Boohoo.

 

Also 'Arcane Shield' is usually taken as utility and more often than not as a trait (Final Shielding). Lightning Flash can be used as an offensive and defensive port, that's up to you in any situation.

You can build as a glasscannon, expect to get blown up. You can build for defensive gameplay just the same.

You got options available to you, it's your own fault for not playing into what's available to you. That's on you, on noone else.

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > Here my second thread from the topic : " If it's good eles can't have it", another example of double standards, personal bias and what more . No point in pointless banter and chit chat so I will get straight to the point :

> > > >

> > > > 1) FA weaver:

> > > > - 900 range

> > > > - no stealth

> > > > - no sustain

> > >

> > > Has 4x stun breaks (1 passive if the run lesser sheuld) , 2x invul also a port - same health as a thief - nothing to reflect back and can do the burst the moment you're in range pretty sure Los didn't effect this so much neither or at least in wvw you can burst behind obstacles.

> > >

> > >

> > > > 2) Deadeye rifle:

> > > > - 1500 range

> > > > - stealth

> > > > - reveal remover

> > > > - teleport

> > > > - weapon swap

> > >

> > > Ok all true for de. Most can be reflected most PvP maps are crowded with stuff to hide behind as well

> > >

> > >

> >

> > 4x stunbreaks? 2x invulnerabilities? LoS didn't affect it?.........what?

>

> Thought you was an ele? And i meant to say 3 stun breaks 2x twist of faith lesser arcane shield and some take mist form, so there is your 3 - 4. Mist form and earth #5 2x invul are they not? At least vs power dmg.

 

ToF counts as 2? :tongue: And noone took mist form, seriously... you needed the guaranteed crit and damage from arcane skills.

 

FA ele was not OP, DE is not OP. Both are one-trick ponys, heavily dependent on not getting focused and vulnerable to the same classes. DE has stealth and more survivability (to position itself), but the main burst has a tell... neither needs/needed a strict nerf. But maybe a change away from pure burst to DPS and some more survivability?

 

But why exactly did they absolutely destroy FA ele? There were a lot of suggestions to make that build more interesting and fun to play against. To still let it have good DPS, but not that kind of stupid burst. Let it have more interesting gameplay. Instead they reduced numbers and wrecked a lot of more builds too, the whole air traitline pretty much got nerfed because of that build.

 

Anyway, I didn't like that kind of FA weaver either, so I am happy it's gone. I just would have loved a small rework so ele has more than one (semi-)viable build for PVP. They obviously never read anything from the ele community.

 

Also, I hope they will not just reduce numbers for DE either, just because it is boring gameplay. If they want to change it, I want them not to nerf it! Maybe reduce stealth access somehow and give survivability elsewhere? Less damage on skills but less initiative cost too? I don't know, that's a question they should ask you thief players, I am not too much into that build. :wink:

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Vornollo.5182" said:

> Oh no... I take no defensive utilities and I get blown up by a glasscannon spec...

> Boohoo.

>

> Also 'Arcane Shield' is usually taken as utility and more often than not as a trait (Final Shielding). Lightning Flash can be used as an offensive and defensive port, that's up to you in any situation.

> You can build as a glasscannon, expect to get blown up. You can build for defensive gameplay just the same.

> You got options available to you, it's your own fault for not playing into what's available to you. That's on you, on noone else.

 

So in a single comment you've proved that :

 

1) you never played a FA ele, let alone an ele at all

2) you don't know even the build which is the object of the discussion

3) you failed to read the comment where I've stated ...nobody whining about cheese DE , no need for thieves to get their pants on fire

 

And in the end you've failed to answer a simple question : where do you fit lightning flash and arcane blast in your build with : twist of fate-mist form-arcane shield ...**a build that would do 2/4 of the dmg**.....?

 

I suggest to actually play a class instead than wikiread

[Vornollo.5182]

What it comes down to, is that you've got a plethora of options available to you in order to counteract things like a DE. Which you're clearly whining about in this topic and several others (*even when they're about Soulbeast instead of Deadeye*), not to mention the fact that there's 3 dedicated "deadeye OP plz nerf" topics just on the first page of the PvP forum section, and it's very easy to find a lot of them in other forum sections too. So again... You're just spreading falsehoods.

 

If you're struggling with something, either you got to change your build, or you got to get better.

Since you claim it's not an L2P issue, it's got to be your build because like I and others have already pointed out, you got a ton of options available to you, but you choose not to use them.

Again, it's just on you and you alone to make that choice.

 

Your comparison to DE is in it's entirety based on falsehoods and probably a lot of salt, so ofcourse someone will point it out.

 

 

EDIT#1:

Just to reiterate that; You can not expect a build to do well in every encounter. Every build has it's weaknesses and counters, exactly as it should be.

 

EDIT#2:

Also, it sucks that Ele got nerfed, especially in the way it did.

Really, I genuinely feel bad for the FA weaver players, there were other ways they could have gone about adjusting the build to be less OP, but still playable.

The issue I have with this topic is that you're just blatantly trying to spread falsehoods about a different Spec/Profession.

[BeLZedaR.4790]

All the thieves jumping the train to defend their profession and attack OP even when they’re not attacked only proves DE is actually broken and/or cheesy.

FA ele should be buffed by actually making some fire skills better imo.

It definetly got overnerded for not even being meta.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > > Here my second thread from the topic : " If it's good eles can't have it", another example of double standards, personal bias and what more . No point in pointless banter and chit chat so I will get straight to the point :

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) FA weaver:

> > > > > - 900 range

> > > > > - no stealth

> > > > > - no sustain

> > > >

> > > > Has 4x stun breaks (1 passive if the run lesser sheuld) , 2x invul also a port - same health as a thief - nothing to reflect back and can do the burst the moment you're in range pretty sure Los didn't effect this so much neither or at least in wvw you can burst behind obstacles.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > 2) Deadeye rifle:

> > > > > - 1500 range

> > > > > - stealth

> > > > > - reveal remover

> > > > > - teleport

> > > > > - weapon swap

> > > >

> > > > Ok all true for de. Most can be reflected most PvP maps are crowded with stuff to hide behind as well

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > 4x stunbreaks? 2x invulnerabilities? LoS didn't affect it?.........what?

> >

> > Thought you was an ele? And i meant to say 3 stun breaks 2x twist of faith lesser arcane shield and some take mist form, so there is your 3 - 4. Mist form and earth #5 2x invul are they not? At least vs power dmg.

>

> ToF counts as 2? :tongue: And noone took mist form, seriously... you needed the guaranteed crit and damage from arcane skills.

>

> FA ele was not OP, DE is not OP. Both are one-trick ponys, heavily dependent on not getting focused and vulnerable to the same classes. DE has stealth and more survivability (to position itself), but the main burst has a tell... neither needs/needed a strict nerf. But maybe a change away from pure burst to DPS and some more survivability?

>

> But why exactly did they absolutely destroy FA ele? There were a lot of suggestions to make that build more interesting and fun to play against. To still let it have good DPS, but not that kind of stupid burst. Let it have more interesting gameplay. Instead they reduced numbers and wrecked a lot of more builds too, the whole air traitline pretty much got nerfed because of that build.

>

> Anyway, I didn't like that kind of FA weaver either, so I am happy it's gone. I just would have loved a small rework so ele has more than one (semi-)viable build for PVP. They obviously never read anything from the ele community.

>

> Also, I hope they will not just reduce numbers for DE either, just because it is boring gameplay. If they want to change it, I want them not to nerf it! Maybe reduce stealth access somehow and give survivability elsewhere? Less damage on skills but less initiative cost too? I don't know, that's a question they should ask you thief players, I am not too much into that build. :wink:

 

Well it can be used twice in row ;)

[Vornollo.5182]

I actually don't play DE, I don't like it's playstyle and I think there's stuff on it which makes it unfun to play both as and against a DE.

You can check my history on that, I've disagreed on plenty of things related to Deadeye, Daredevil and Thief.

 

Just facts, not spreading falsehoods...

He claims Weaver has less options when compared to DE, that's actually a bit of an "attack" if you want to put a label on it and it's actually quite a ridiculous argument to try and make.

They both got different options, they're not the same. DE doesn't have access to several immunities and blocks, instead it has stealth and evasion. They both got ports etc. other than that, they both got a variety of things they can do... I mean, holy kitten, it's almost as if they're two different professions with varying playstyles, options, opportunities, weaknesses and counters.

Mind boggling stuff.

[Luca.4670]

Fa weaver was not Op, just very good at killing bad players. It was a joke to deal with it. Never had any trouble with any class to deal with any fa weaver. Trash players with no awareness (ofc) were getting rekt by FA burst. Pvp gw2 community is such a joke, seriously.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Vornollo.5182" said:

> I actually don't play DE, I don't like it's playstyle and I think there's stuff on it which makes it unfun to play both as and against a DE.

> You can check my history on that, I've disagreed on plenty of things related to Deadeye, Daredevil and Thief.

>

> Just facts, not spreading falsehoods...

> He claims Weaver has less options when compared to DE, that's actually a bit of an "attack" if you want to put a label on it and it's actually quite a ridiculous argument to try and make.

> They both got different options, they're not the same. DE doesn't have access to several immunities and blocks, instead it has stealth and evasion. They both got ports etc. other than that, they both got a variety of things they can do... I mean, holy kitten, it's almost as if they're two different professions with varying playstyles, options, opportunities, weaknesses and counters.

> Mind boggling stuff.

 

Again...I wasn't attacking DE playstyle, I was wondering why it was nerfed on ele but kept on others when effectively the ele FA weaver wasn't easier or more effective than current DE

[Kako.1930]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> Fa weaver was way more op than de. It actually saw use in tourneys. It also had less tells than de does which made them infuriating to fight against. Also, that weaver build had both a teleport and weapon swap, please stop spouting nonsense

 

Eles don't have the option to swap weapons, though. Only attunements.

 

I agree with the OP. Fresh air weaver was already a very niche build that hardly anyone used, and it was not effective in the least, but it was still nerfed into oblivion. At the same time, professions with much higher survivability and DPS were actually buffed, so there is indeed a double standard there.

 

Also, there are several other niche builds that "saw use in tourneys" that are also not effective, but none of these builds were on the winning team.

 

As for tells... FA ele has no stealth and 900 range. If you can't tell that an ele holding a scepter and focus at 900 range maximum is going to deal damage then that's on you, especially if you've seen him more than once in the same match. Even then, their numbers from an entire multi-element burst (that you would have to be afk to be hit by entirely) is still less than DE can deal in 1 skill, which also happens to be unblockable and from stealth. Even the DE just spamming the 3rd skill on rifle deals more damage.

 

FA has a max range of 900, no boon steal, no stealth, only one teleport (which is only 900 range and is not a stun break), no unblockable skills, (all of which DE has, including a 2-way 1,200 range teleport that breaks stun and removes 3 conditions and a 900 range teleport on a weapon skill) and FA ele is the first to be focused down in any semi-intelligent fight. To claim that they are somehow stronger than DE is just silly. Come on, now...