Jaunty.6018 Posted August 19, 2018 Author Share Posted August 19, 2018 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > I ran Istan for about 3 hours and got no more than 30 gold. I'm aware some people can make more, but it's still not much. Considering you can spend $20 on various sites and get 2,000 gems, which equate to around 600 gold, I see gold farming in this game as nothing more than pointless slave labor. Even if you have a low wage job why not just work 2-3 extra hours and get a gem card? > > > > At the rate I've experienced, it would take you _60 hours of farming_ to get 600 gold. 60 in-game hours vs. 2-3 hours of real work (or less if you're fortunate). It makes no sense. It's not as if gold farming is _super fun_ or anything. Hell, you can't even watch Netflix while you do it because the gameplay is too intense. > > I play the game to have fun. Making gold is just a bonus. I do not play the game to get in game currency. If playing the game is not fun for you, I am not sure why do you play it. Never said _playing the game_ wasn't fun for me, I said gold farming is not fun. Especially when it's incredibly inefficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaunty.6018 Posted August 19, 2018 Author Share Posted August 19, 2018 > @"Blocki.4931" said: > This thread reads like "lol why don't all these people work irl and just credit card farm xD do you like being poor?" > > The reason is that if you just buy every shiny right away you have no reason to actually play the game, get bored and quit in a few months Credit card farm? What's that? By swiping you're _avoiding_ farming. Also, what does that tell you about the game if every shiny you personally want from it can be purchased with real money? I think this thread has more to do with Anet installing an omnipresent cash shop than looking down at those who farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Khisanth.2948" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"Khisanth.2948" said: > > > > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > > > > > > I ran Istan for about 3 hours and got no more than 30 gold. I'm aware some people can make more, but it's still not much. Considering you can spend $20 on various sites and get 2,000 gems, which equate to around 600 gold, I see gold farming in this game as nothing more than pointless slave labor. Even if you have a low wage job why not just work 2-3 extra hours and get a gem card? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the rate I've experienced, it would take you _60 hours of farming_ to get 600 gold. 60 in-game hours vs. 2-3 hours of real work (or less if you're fortunate). It makes no sense. It's not as if gold farming is _super fun_ or anything. Hell, you can't even watch Netflix while you do it because the gameplay is too intense. > > > > > > > > > > > > First off, not every one decides to risk their account with illegal sites, especially when there is in-game legal methods of converting gems to gold. > > > > > > > > > > Ebay and Amazon are illegal? That's news to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are if the sellers obtained the cards via fraud. > > > > > > > > > > Does not make a site illegal just because someone sells something on them that is not legit.. Would be interesting to see how you would handle a legal challenge from those sites though. > > > There are many sites/shops that sell gem cards... without issue, some ANET partner with some they don't. Does not make any of them illegal. > > > If your choosing to use goldsellers to procure gold, then that is entirely different and yeah you stand to risk your account, but gem cards not so much unless they were in fact stolen cards, which I would hazard a guess is a lot less frequent than being scammed by a goldseller. > > > Pretty sure even if you purchased a stolen card, then the worst that could happen is the card code gets refused when trying to activate it in the cashop, your account would not be at risk because your not giving such details to either the site or the seller, your just left out of pocket. > > > > The actual sequence of events would be > > > > 1) thief buys cards using stolen credit card > > 2) thief sells card to you > > 3) you use the card > > 4) real owner realize the theft occurred and contact their CC company and initiate a charge back for purchases they didn't make > > 5) that charge back is now associated with your account and you get all the consequences of associated with a chargeback > > Wrong.. The charge back on their card is nothing to do with me as I buy the card through the website with my own cc.. therefore account has nothing to do with it.. > The sites are merely a marketplace with a purchase portal that will take my CC details not the stolen card details. At worst the card code will be refused on use and I would be left out of pocket as ANET will have no grounds to reimburse, otherwise ANET might want proof of purchase.. which you will always get when purchasing through such sites. If they were illegal, ANET would never offer out gem cards in the first place. > > If I buy the cards directly from the thief for cash then maybe there could be grounds for ANET to action my account, as there would likely be no proof of purchase. But, like I said, if you brave enough to raise a legal challenge to the likes of Amazon, eBay or such then go for it, but let me grab some popcorn first so I can enjoy the show. You’re misinformed. If you use a gem code that results in a charge back, you’ll be actioned against. It doesn’t matter if you bought it. Any time you buy from a third party, who is not an approved vendor, the risk and consequences are on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaunty.6018 Posted August 19, 2018 Author Share Posted August 19, 2018 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > > > If you're spending hours per day grinding for gold that could be so much more easily obtained by throwing a few bucks at the game, then I don't see that as very enjoyable personally. I feel I'm wasting my life when I grind needlessly. > > Grind is the nature of the MMO genre. Sure, it's possible to play MMO's without grinding. However, it's not possible to play them and get most of what they offer as rewards without cyclical repetition, whatever the time cycle on that repetition is. MMO's _are_ about wasting our time. If you're more concerned about doing what you find fun, do that -- and don't worry about virtual "rewards." Grinding when there's no other option is a necessary means to an end. Grinding when you can easily bypass it altogether is a waste of time. > I play GW2 sparingly. I rarely even think about either the gem store, or the currency exchange. To me, an "omnipresent" cash shop is more like what I saw in one Freemium game. Every inconvenience the game threw at me came with a reminder that I could bypass said inconvenience with a shop purchase or the "optional" sub. Perhaps what makes the GW2 exchange omnipresent for you is that you place more emphasis on getting virtual stuff than I do. How is the cash shop not omnipresent? It's always there, with an icon on your HUD, with reminders in your inventory that you can purchase bag slots (and the game cluttering your inventory with trash loot constantly), with reminders as soon as you login telling you what's on sale, and with black lion chests dropping all over the world--but the keys must be purchased from the cash shop. The cash shop is always there. If you want to see an example of a non-omnipresent cash shop, play FFXIV, where it's not even accessible in-game. Or hey, check out Guild Wars 1. That game didn't let you bypass _anything_ by pulling out your wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaunty.6018 Posted August 19, 2018 Author Share Posted August 19, 2018 > @"Edgy McEdgelord.4790" said: > If you need to swipe to get gold in the most casual and easy game ever you may as well just be a bad player. My 2 cents (or rather silver). Avoiding gold farming doesn't mean you're a bad player; it means you'd rather not waste your time. I mean seriously, you think it takes talent to gold farm? To run with a zerg and pew pew enemies while pressing F on chests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgy McEdgelord.4790 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > @"Edgy McEdgelord.4790" said: > > If you need to swipe to get gold in the most casual and easy game ever you may as well just be a bad player. My 2 cents (or rather silver). > > Avoiding gold farming doesn't mean you're a bad player; it means you'd rather not waste your time. I mean seriously, you think it takes talent to gold farm? To run with a zerg and pew pew enemies while pressing F on chests? Does it take talent to ask dad for money though? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Let’s not forget about the _sense of accomplishment_. Most players probably feel way, way better about a Legendary they’ve built through weeks or months of “work” rather than just entering your credit card details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaunty.6018 Posted August 19, 2018 Author Share Posted August 19, 2018 > @"Edgy McEdgelord.4790" said: > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > > @"Edgy McEdgelord.4790" said: > > > If you need to swipe to get gold in the most casual and easy game ever you may as well just be a bad player. My 2 cents (or rather silver). > > > > Avoiding gold farming doesn't mean you're a bad player; it means you'd rather not waste your time. I mean seriously, you think it takes talent to gold farm? To run with a zerg and pew pew enemies while pressing F on chests? > > Does it take talent to ask dad for money though? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Honestly, more talent to do that effectively than gold farm. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaunty.6018 Posted August 19, 2018 Author Share Posted August 19, 2018 > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > Let’s not forget about the _sense of accomplishment_. Most players probably feel way, way better about a Legendary they’ve built through weeks or months of “work” rather than just entering your credit card details. First of all, it's not just "entering your credit card details". You worked for that money, and legendaries aren't cheap. Secondly, legendaries are a bit different because it's not just gold farming. You're doing all sorts of things including 100% world completion--which was pretty damn fun for me and it was asking me to basically just play the game. Once it got to needing all those mats though, and I was farming Silverwastes for hours, I opted to buy the special edition (or whatever) of Heart of Thorns and use the included gems to skip me to the end of the grind. I don't regret it one bit. The amount of time the game asks of you to obtain a legendary is monstrous. By the time I got my Kudzu I was so burned out I quit playing and didn't return for over a year. Didn't even stay to enjoy the expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTrogdor.7892 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > Even if you have a low wage job why not just work 2-3 extra hours and get a gem card? >At the rate I've experienced, it would take you _60 hours of farming_ to get 600 gold. 60 in-game hours vs. 2-3 hours of real work (or less if you're fortunate). It makes no sense. It's not as if gold farming is _super fun_ or anything. Hell, you can't even watch Netflix while you do it because the gameplay is too intense. I've seen the "just work more hours because it is more efficient," argument here a lot. I know it might seem odd to a lot of people that spend a significant amount of time playing computer games, but not everyone gets paid by the hour for _real work_. There is this thing called a salary that many people earn for their _real work_. . ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaunty.6018 Posted August 19, 2018 Author Share Posted August 19, 2018 > @"JustTrogdor.7892" said: > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > Even if you have a low wage job why not just work 2-3 extra hours and get a gem card? > > >At the rate I've experienced, it would take you _60 hours of farming_ to get 600 gold. 60 in-game hours vs. 2-3 hours of real work (or less if you're fortunate). It makes no sense. It's not as if gold farming is _super fun_ or anything. Hell, you can't even watch Netflix while you do it because the gameplay is too intense. > > I've seen the "just work more hours because it is more efficient," argument here a lot. I know it might seem odd to a lot of people that spend a significant amount of time playing computer games, but not everyone gets paid by the hour for _real work_. There is this thing called a salary that many people earn for their _real work_. . ;) > Well since you're talking down to me, if you have this "_salary_" and you can afford to sit at home and gold farm for hours, you probably can afford to buy gold instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diak Atoli.2085 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 You mean you spend money on something you can easily get for free? Weird. :o On a more serious note, most people likely have more important or valuable things to spend real money on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTrogdor.7892 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > @"JustTrogdor.7892" said: > > > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > > Even if you have a low wage job why not just work 2-3 extra hours and get a gem card? > > > > >At the rate I've experienced, it would take you _60 hours of farming_ to get 600 gold. 60 in-game hours vs. 2-3 hours of real work (or less if you're fortunate). It makes no sense. It's not as if gold farming is _super fun_ or anything. Hell, you can't even watch Netflix while you do it because the gameplay is too intense. > > > > I've seen the "just work more hours because it is more efficient," argument here a lot. I know it might seem odd to a lot of people that spend a significant amount of time playing computer games, but not everyone gets paid by the hour for _real work_. There is this thing called a salary that many people earn for their _real work_. . ;) > > > > Well since you're talking down to me, if you have this "_salary_" and you can afford to sit at home and gold farm for hours, you probably can afford to buy gold instead. Not talking down just explaining that not everyone works for an hourly wage that can be increased by working a 2-3 an extra hours. Say a person makes a modest $50,000 a year salary. They maybe have a mortgage payment, maybe a kid or two to support (that's very expensive on its own), putting money toward a college fund for the kids, 401k, etc and don't want to spend money on gold because their real world money has a priority spent on more important things. So they spend a few hours here and there farming the gold in a game that is their hobby. It has nothing to do with, "could spend an hour on real work," or "probably can afford." It is about setting a priority on spending. Let's face it in the big picture spending real world money on GW2 is a waste in the long term. Eventually the game will shut down and all the real world money spent goes "poof." Many people no matter paid by the hour or paid a salary and no matter their income would rather farm than toss their money, shall we say, down the drain. Your original post was all about, just work a few more hours and buy the gold or gems. My point is that it isn't always that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Having the choice to pay with either time or money was also one of the selling points for the game originally. Not sure if they still have that up. IIRC it was on Twitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 I have a lot of money, but for the game not become too tedious, I only use gems for exclusive items from Gem store. Items like ascendend and others, I go to "farm" gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaunty.6018 Posted August 19, 2018 Author Share Posted August 19, 2018 > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > You mean you spend money on something you can easily get for free? Weird. :o On a more serious note, most people likely have more important or valuable things to spend real money on. How is farming 40-60 hours easier than working enough to afford $20? And what could be more valuable than time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldrjth.7384 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 The problem is actually the fact that gems can be converted into gold in the first place rather than _requiring_ players grind for gold/loot which is usually the entire point of these types of games. It was a problem I identified at the **beginning**. It allows players to get virtually any item, including legendaries, without playing much of the game (though whod want legendaries in a game they dont play) lowering their desirability and prestige. Some players rather not grind 1000+ hours for something that can be bought for $20. And gen 1 legendaries only had exotic stats when released and exotics was got easily. They way the gemstore should work is you buy account based items (such as char slots+bags) with gems/money but they can also be unlocked for _free_ by simply playing the game without exchanging gold to gems and visa versa. Having gold purchasable by cash just disincentives grinding for gold/gear. I think any item that can be bought through gems has to have a way in which it can be attained through game-play but not visa versa i.e. any item can be attained by playing the game cant necessarily be bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemis.6781 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 And if it weren't for people buying gems and converting to gold, people who farmed for gold would not be able to convert that gold into gems. It truly is a win-win for both types of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diak Atoli.2085 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > > You mean you spend money on something you can easily get for free? Weird. :o On a more serious note, most people likely have more important or valuable things to spend real money on. > > How is farming 40-60 hours easier than working enough to afford $20? And what could be more valuable than time? First off, you mistakenly equate 40 - 60 hours worth of farming gold to the equivalent of buying $20 worth of gems and exchanging that for gold. Doing the full Istan meta farm, and one SW RIBA rotation for maximum MF, reasonably nets a _farmer_ an average of 20g - 25g an hour. 40 to 60 hours worth of effort equals 800g - 1,000g (40 hours) or 1,200g - 1,500g (60 hours). $20 = 1,600 gems. Current BLTC exchange is 1,600 gems** = 350g. To purchase an equivalent amount of gold, you would have to spend **$50 - $90** on gems. Secondly, most employees can not work additional hours without supervisor approval. Most supervisors will not give approval unless absolutely required. I, personally, have only been allowed to work 10 hours of overtime over the past 3 years. As for the second part of your response, I offer events such as family birthdays, vacations, going out with friends, concerts, etc. Those are much more valuable to spend money on, especially when one considers **I can make gold for free by having fun.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gengetsu.1920 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Many people have alrdy said it but everyone is different i dont mind farming at all personally, but i dont have always the time id like to do it so im not afraid to throw money at the game to get what i want just a little faster. Also most of the gem stuff is all qol or fashion stuff (talking just about the gem store itself). As for gem to gold it just is a matter of perspective how much time do you have and to get that thing your after and your own ideals about throwing money for pixels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTrogdor.7892 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said: > Secondly, most employees can not work additional hours without supervisor approval. Most supervisors will not give approval unless absolutely required. I, personally, have only been allowed to work 10 hours of overtime over the past 3 years. > > As for the second part of your response, I offer events such as family birthdays, vacations, going out with friends, concerts, etc. Those are much more valuable to spend money on, especially when one considers **I can make gold for free by having fun.** This, and if you do work for an hourly wage and find you are asking for extra work hours in order to pay for virtual items in a computer game; maybe it would be best to reflect on how you are budgeting your money. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Summary: + Some people enjoy "farming" (some don't) + Some have neither the discretionary income nor the opportunity to just work more hours, but do have the time to play the game to get gold. + It's something to do, which is what MMO's provide (no matter what aspects of an MMO you play); if you're going to run around doing events and gathering materials, selling them to make money is gravy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 > @"Jaunty.6018" said: > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > Let’s not forget about the _sense of accomplishment_. Most players probably feel way, way better about a Legendary they’ve built through weeks or months of “work” rather than just entering your credit card details. > > First of all, it's not just "entering your credit card details". You worked for that money, and legendaries aren't cheap. > > Secondly, legendaries are a bit different because it's not just gold farming. You're doing all sorts of things including 100% world completion--which was pretty kitten fun for me and it was asking me to basically just play the game. Once it got to needing all those mats though, and I was farming Silverwastes for hours, I opted to buy the special edition (or whatever) of Heart of Thorns and use the included gems to skip me to the end of the grind. I don't regret it one bit. The amount of time the game asks of you to obtain a legendary is monstrous. By the time I got my Kudzu I was so burned out I quit playing and didn't return for over a year. Didn't even stay to enjoy the expansion. I guess I should’ve clarified it as _sense of in-game accomplishment_ although I never excepted I would have to because it is kind of a given. To me at least. Also, far be it for me to judge (or tell people how to spend their cash) but if your sense of accomplishment from your IRL job comes down to digital goodies you can buy in a video game that might be a sign that you’re not in a healthy place/mind when it comes to your gaming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamy Lu.3865 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Well, it remains a personal choice how to handle with earning gold. My gold income, of about 15 - up to 30 - gold per day, is mainly done by selling expensive items to TP. This is sufficient for what I do on a daily basis. As I don't like to repeat the same activity in a row, earning gold via repeating the same meta again and again is not for me. Generally, I consider time as an important game contributor. If I want something expensive, I will not force myself to an activity at which I have no fun just to speed it up. I prefer to just take it easy, doing only things I like, even if it means that I need more time than most people to get what I want. Since i have close to zero competition mind, I don't care being last! :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scar.1793 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I haven’t really touched the new maps but if you need around 60h to make 30g+ you’re either doing it correctly or it’s not an efficient way to farm. I remember by farming leather you could get way more than that in a few hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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