"Nothing can save you"

[Luna Kitsune.3061]

Has anyone ever seriously used "Nothing can save you" shout on a reaper with success? I keep thinking that it would be a perfect fit in duels against engis and guardians but the main issue I see it having is the cast time. By the time you notice their shield and cast it its short 4sec duration just doesn't seem to value up at all. Does it need a buff to remove the cast time to be balanced or is it fine as is?

[Alatar.7364]

Well, shouting "Nothing can save you" and swinging stuff around had definitely successful impact on my fun time when playing Reaper. Other than that, I have no idea.

[Virelion.4128]

This shout should be named "Almost everything will save you"

[Sigmoid.7082]

You would need to look at what the skill does and has potential to do. Including reaper trait interactions.

At its weakest its 4s of unblockable on a 25s cooldown.

At its strongest its 9s of unblockable 10% damage,20% crit chance on a 16.25s cooldown while removing 10 boons across 5 targets.

Everything else is somewhere inbetween.

 

If the cast time was removed with the skill as it is something would have to change.

[Luna Kitsune.3061]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> You would need to look at what the skill does and has potential to do. Including reaper trait interactions.

> At its weakest its 4s of unblockable on a 25s cooldown.

> At its strongest its 9s of unblockable 10% damage,20% crit chance on a 16.25s cooldown while removing 10 boons across 5 targets.

> Everything else is somewhere inbetween.

>

> If the cast time was removed with the skill as it is something would have to change.

 

I'd say that making it a purely unblockable instant cast buff would give it much more utility and further enforce it as a niche pick when you know that there will be shield spamming skills on the field. Personally I'd rework it into something like instant cast, 5 sec unblockable, 30 sec cd 1 boon rip on 5 targets, regardless of enemy numbers hit. It doesn't have to be THE skill as a must run, at least it should do its job properly rather than be a halfass of a lot of things we don't need

[Stand The Wall.6987]

if insta cast then remove the vulns methinks. for da balances.

[Exedore.6320]

I have. You can't use it re-actively on short blocks. Only use it re-actively on longer blocks or anticipate when a short block will happen and use it to guarantee that CC or high damage lands.

[Nerah.8235]

It's very niche. This shout really illustrates that necros *never* get something for nothing. You have an ability that appears really neat and useful. In reality, it just isn't used very much, because the cast time and frenetic pace of the game always make the number of targets you can hit be a ???, so you usually only get lowish duration (the good outcome, meaning you hit someone), or burst down/interrupted while casting (the bad outcome).

 

So, a really variable outcome that takes up a super-valuable utility slot. Given the pretty obvious deficiencies that all necromancer derived have (slow, few active defenses, vulnerable to ranged, etc.), everyone tries to plug the gaps as best they can with the most reliable skills they can. In other words, NCSY is just too slow and fluky to be competitive with other skills needed to cover deficiencies in the profession itself.

 

Now, I will admit, that I actually run NCSY about 50% of the time, but I *personally* don't care about efficiency, and am willing to run a character that has some real, glaring weaknesses. In rare (and fun!) cases, you can catch people out, as they simply don't see many reapers running NCSY.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

NCSY should grant allies within range 1/2 the unblockable duration that the Reaper receives. All of a sudden this skill is good.

[Zero.3871]

> @"Julius Seizure.4985" said:

> NCSY should grant allies within range 1/2 the unblockable duration that the Reaper receives. All of a sudden this skill is good.

 

that wouldnt suit to the way necro shouts works. Guardian or warri shouts support other teammates, but necro shouts are selfish by design and that is good, because necro already has too much skills and traits that are only useful in groupfights. this class dont Need even more groupfight skills. they should just increase the unblockable or reduce the cd to give better Access to it. that would be already enough because this skills mechanic works fine, just some number changees needed here.

[Odik.4587]

> @"Luna Kitsune.3061" said:

> Has anyone ever seriously used "Nothing can save you" shout on a reaper with success? I keep thinking that it would be a perfect fit in duels against engis and guardians but the main issue I see it having is the cast time. By the time you notice their shield and cast it its short 4sec duration just doesn't seem to value up at all. Does it need a buff to remove the cast time to be balanced or is it fine as is?

 

Your entire thread/complaint belong to 'necromancer' subforum ,

[Vornollo.5182]

Don't play Reaper too often, but yeah I've had some success with it. When you know how other classes work, you can usually make a pretty educated guess as to when they'll use what skills/utilities, this allows you to be proactive with NCSY, rather than reactive.

Think that's the moment a utility such as this really comes to shine.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Luna Kitsune.3061" said:

> I'd say that making it a purely unblockable instant cast buff would give it much more utility and further enforce it as a niche pick when you know that there will be shield spamming skills on the field. Personally I'd rework it into something like instant cast, 5 sec unblockable, 30 sec cd 1 boon rip on 5 targets, regardless of enemy numbers hit. It doesn't have to be THE skill as a must run, at least it should do its job properly rather than be a halfass of a lot of things we don't need

Instant cast is overpowered. Imagine precasting Grave Digger into a blocking target and right at the end of the animation an instant "NCSY!". That's just too much considering Grave Digger can oneshot the target.

 

The cooldown should be lowered to 1/4s. The current 1/2s is not necessary as the cast time has only the purpose to cancel animations to prevent attacks becoming unblockable while casting.

[Virelion.4128]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Luna Kitsune.3061" said:

> > I'd say that making it a purely unblockable instant cast buff would give it much more utility and further enforce it as a niche pick when you know that there will be shield spamming skills on the field. Personally I'd rework it into something like instant cast, 5 sec unblockable, 30 sec cd 1 boon rip on 5 targets, regardless of enemy numbers hit. It doesn't have to be THE skill as a must run, at least it should do its job properly rather than be a halfass of a lot of things we don't need

> Instant cast is overpowered. Imagine precasting Grave Digger into a blocking target and right at the end of the animation an instant "NCSY!". That's just too much considering Grave Digger can oneshot the target.

>

> The cooldown should be lowered to 1/4s. The current 1/2s is not necessary as the cast time has only the purpose to cancel animations to prevent attacks becoming unblockable while casting.

 

How about redesign gravedigger as it is stupid in pve and unreliable in pvp and then making NCSY instant.

Necromancer in general needs redesign to reduce it synergy with supports and increase his own survivability.

No more stupid ele/necro guardian/necro combos

[Etheri.5406]

It was meta in WvW for a pretty long time during HoT. Your marks (traited) are your answer for short blocks that you need to interupt.

Nothing can save you is much stronger at preventing you get trolled by a block the moment you go into RS.

 

e.g. good warriors will just use their block once you go into reaper form or swap out of staff to GS and can't swap back. No point in using it while you're on staff, they'll just force you into reaper shroud. And then blocking allows them to bleed out your shroud with no way of pressuring them... And leaving shroud is very risky.

 

Same for engies and guardians. You pressure a necro, force them into shroud, then kite them with blocks that they can't answer despite having a LOT of unblockable spells they have access to.

 

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> I have. You can't use it re-actively on short blocks. Only use it re-actively on longer blocks or anticipate when a short block will happen and use it to guarantee that CC or high damage lands.

 

So if you want something reactive... use unblockables like traited marks, well of corruption, corrupt boon, ... It's not like necro lacks unblockables.

 

Nothing can save you is much better used pre-emptively. You use it before you go into shroud which strips additional boons, then you're ensured your shroud skills can hit as long as you land them. This was pretty popular to spike a huge amount of boons in WvW with AoE corrupts, shroud procs and shouts (all of which become unblockable) followed by burst in reaper shroud or gravedigger, which are still unblockable.

 

Both shroud and greatsword skills are slow-hitting, obvious but hard-hitting moves. Making them unblockable is pretty good.

 

Despite that, it's not in a very good spot right now. Reaper is only used in soloQ pvp mostly. Also, the power budget on the skill is problematic. Since it scales insanely well with numbers, it's either viable in WvW and shit everywhere else or OP in wvw and "ok" everywhere else. This can be fixed by normalizing the duration at least partly. "If it hits no enemies, make it last 2-3 seconds. If it hits ANY enemies make it last twice as long". That way it can be balanced for pvp and wvw viability at the same time; yet you maintain the "it doesn't last long if you dodge it" effect.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Luna Kitsune.3061" said:

> Has anyone ever seriously used "Nothing can save you" shout on a reaper with success? I keep thinking that it would be a perfect fit in duels against engis and guardians but the main issue I see it having is the cast time. By the time you notice their shield and cast it its short 4sec duration just doesn't seem to value up at all. Does it need a buff to remove the cast time to be balanced or is it fine as is?

 

I have and it not too bad for what it is mean to do "Give you unblockable attacks" the only issue it has is having a cast time. It should be instant so that you dont have to stop one action if a person suddenly starts to block to activate it. Most blocks dont last long 2-3 seconds and where **"nothing can save you"** fails is having to notice a block, and react, then actually get the cast off, then proceed to attack.

 

In other words it fails as a reactionary tool like most other instant unblockable attack tools.

 

Instead it was made in the sense that you have to use it preemptively and thats simply not ideal. In some cases you might make a right read but in other cases it will simply feel like you wasted the skill or like it has no effect at all.

 

The ez fix to this is to make it instant cast so that it can be used as a reactionary tool rather than a preemptive tool.

[DeceiverX.8361]

I used to run it for my frontline zerg setup when reaper was more durable as a means to shred guardians.

 

It's not a weak utility by any stretch, but it's more or less the case in that it's hard to justify.

 

SA is your quintessential stunbreak and defensive skill.

Suffer is your quintessential condi cleanse.

[util Slot 3] is wise to dedicate to in-combat mobility or tertiary defenses when shroud is down.

 

Going to agree with KrHome here, though; instant cast is probably too OP for a number of tricks the reaper has.

 

1/4s with no precast/aftercast delays would work quite well.

 

Normalizing it to 5, dare I even say 6 seconds with no increase in duration may also prove a bit better to round out its niche. Odds are if you need more than 6s of unblockable attacks you're using the utility wrong and are a dead reaper as it is.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

What Nothing can save you needs is _Revealed_ for 6s, and having Reaper shouts recharge faster not when hitting multiple enemies, but when hit by enemies. Something like decreasing recharges by 5% for each enemy that hits you, with a 10s cooldown on each enemy, with a cap of 50% of the recharge of the skill.

 

Reaper is meant to act like this "unstoppable force", the kind of Horror monster that keeps coming while you shoot and throw stuff at them.

[Catchyfx.5768]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> Reaper is meant to act like this "unstoppable force", the kind of Horror monster that keeps coming while you shoot and throw stuff at them.

 

Kinda funny most of the time im hidding behind objects to not get 1shoted and even I'm flee from the Warriors :D

[Lahmia.2193]

Back before PoF, I used it with great effect with greatsword. Since going back to reaper, I haven't really used it much. I prefer 2 wells and suffer combo with dagger/focus.

[Anchoku.8142]

The tool tip should say "Unblockable but none of your attacks will be in range and undodged."

[Rhyse.8179]

Should replace it with "I'm Unstoppable!" - Immune to all CC effects for 6 seconds

[Methuselah.4376]

Back when DHs were the meta for pvp and seemed to have unlimited blocks, NCSY was great as it allowed me to follow with an unblockable CTTB, which then allowed for what little CC chain reaper had and it usually ended up in dead DHs.

[Lexan.5930]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> You would need to look at what the skill does and has potential to do. Including reaper trait interactions.

> At its weakest its 4s of unblockable on a 25s cooldown.

> At its strongest its 9s of unblockable 10% damage,20% crit chance on a 16.25s cooldown while removing 10 boons across 5 targets.

> Everything else is somewhere inbetween.

>

> If the cast time was removed with the skill as it is something would have to change.

 

Its got good flavor but the design is off. Most enimies dont have lots of blocks and if they do its usually 1 aegis and an auto will remove it. It feels like it was a PvP skill that just has way too long of a cast time especially when wells are unblockable and invuln for most classes is much stronger anyway.

[Egorum.9506]

It's for pvp, allows you to delete guards, revs, and warriors of you use it at the right time