I prefer PoF to HoT

[buntalanlucu.4036]

The PoF expansion breath new life for GW2 with it's highly accesible content for everyone and buck the trend of zone wide Meta Events from HoT , a game design that truly ignore the majority of MMORPG players which is solo explorer / casuals.

 

Is PoF change of direction came from Arena.Net's realization that not everyone enjoy group-only content and endless meta event ala HoT ? From the soloable Heroic Points in PoF , a reverse of the foolish design decision to gate HoT's HP in group content (the combat HP , not the Commune HP).. The easy to level Mount Masteries compared to HoT incredibly hard to level masteries for casual players , masteries in HoT are geared for group players doing meta events , in which one can get fast leveling.. but alas casual players will get bored with the mastery gating before they QUIT the whole game.

 

Another example is the first zone of expansion. PoF started with very casual friendly and very explorer friendly zone in the Oasis , while HoT started in the most incredibly annoying and mastery gated Verdant Brink zone..

 

I hope this will be the trend for the next GW2 expansion , cater for the casual players which is the majority of MMORPG players including GW2.. Add a single map for zone wide meta event players that a casual dont need to join to enjoy the expansion.

 

cheers

[Kevluna.3921]

Let's do a poll on this issue

[Orion Templar.4589]

I kind of like both approaches. I think owning both expansions and having access to variety depending on what you're in the mood to do is a good thing.

[Blocki.4931]

I don't think HoT had bad maps, in fact they are pretty memorable and fun to explore. The tons of secrets in PoF were amazing too, but I don't think they had to make up for anything. The issue is that HoT introduced verticality, which in this game just turns everything into an absolute mess. The map sucks when there are many different layers and especially the minimap can rarely be trusted.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

Heart of Thorns was a fiasco? Huh, you learn something new every day...

 

I prefer the Heart of Thorns metas over Path of Fire's, yet I prefer the open maps of PoF more. I find the mobs in both maps to be of equal difficulty. Personally, they should continue to release content inspired by both.

 

As always, your opinions may vary.

 

_Edit for spellcheck._ :#

[Emberstone.2904]

Masteries are why I quit during HoT. It felt like I couldn't do anything unless I spent hours searching for mastery points in those pain in the kitten maps, and then spent even more hours farming meta events.

 

All of that, just so my character could crawl into a hole or stand on a mushroom. Was pretty stupid IMO. PoF does them a bit better as they're paced in such a manner as to present you with a mastery challenge (such as jumping over a wide gorge with the raptor) by about the time you'd have that mastery unlockable. But I still think mastery gating is kind of stupid regardless.

 

It'd be less annoying if XP gained also earned me mastery points instead of having to complete certain achievements, or find mastery points in annoying locations on the map. Sometimes, those mastery points are even gated behind other masteries. It just feels like arbitrary gating to do simple stuff.

[Palador.2170]

I don't see PoF as an apology for HoT, so much as a proof that they've learned some things from HoT. Less convoluted maps, so that it's easier to get to interesting things and events. Enemies that are tough, but not unfair (like an enemy that's flat out immune to damage from past a set range). Better pacing of the masteries. And no metas that block or hinder story progress.

 

Also, one of the first things they did AFTER PoF was to give us a LS map with a large meta, perfect for those that like those things. It may not be as complex as some of the HoT ones, but that makes it more accessible to new people. They just made sure that the meta didn't hinder the story or exploration too much. They're learning where to put content, and when.

[Kevluna.3921]

> @"Emberstone.2904" said:

> Masteries are why I quit during HoT. It felt like I couldn't do anything unless I spent hours searching for mastery points in those pain in the kitten maps, and then spent even more hours farming meta events.

>

> All of that, just so my character could crawl into a hole or stand on a mushroom. Was pretty stupid IMO. PoF does them a bit better as they're paced in such a manner as to present you with a mastery challenge (such as jumping over a wide gorge with the raptor) by about the time you'd have that mastery unlockable. But I still think mastery gating is kind of stupid regardless.

>

> It'd be less annoying if XP gained also earned me mastery points instead of having to complete certain achievements, or find mastery points in annoying locations on the map. Sometimes, those mastery points are even gated behind other masteries. It just feels like arbitrary gating to do simple stuff.

 

yep total agreement here , same with OP , pointless mastery gating in HOT map just to do simple and rather mundane stuff..

 

and the kicker ? it took way too many participation in endless zone wide meta events to level up your 'masteries' , i got like 12 mastery points in HoT i can't spend yet because i still need to level up masteries ever so slowly.. and doing hours and hours of group map wide meta event is not what i deemed fun

 

not everyone is a kid or unemployed person or unmarried person who got massive free time in life

[buntalanlucu.4036]

> @"Kevluna.3921" said:

> > @"Emberstone.2904" said:

> > Masteries are why I quit during HoT. It felt like I couldn't do anything unless I spent hours searching for mastery points in those pain in the kitten maps, and then spent even more hours farming meta events.

> >

> > All of that, just so my character could crawl into a hole or stand on a mushroom. Was pretty stupid IMO. PoF does them a bit better as they're paced in such a manner as to present you with a mastery challenge (such as jumping over a wide gorge with the raptor) by about the time you'd have that mastery unlockable. But I still think mastery gating is kind of stupid regardless.

> >

> > It'd be less annoying if XP gained also earned me mastery points instead of having to complete certain achievements, or find mastery points in annoying locations on the map. Sometimes, those mastery points are even gated behind other masteries. It just feels like arbitrary gating to do simple stuff.

>

> yep total agreement here , same with OP , pointless mastery gating in HOT map just to do simple and rather mundane stuff..

>

> and the kicker ? it took way too many participation in endless zone wide meta events to level up your 'masteries' , i got like 12 mastery points in HoT i can't spend yet because i still need to level up masteries ever so slowly.. and doing hours and hours of group map wide meta event is not what i deemed fun

>

> not everyone is a kid or unemployed person or unmarried person who got massive free time in life

 

from what i experienced in MMORPGs like WoW , SWTOR, LoTRo , ESO , majority of people are just casuals who go their own way to do what they find enjoyable and will only group for certain events to support their casual gameplay style.. and these are the silent majority of MMORPG players who wont event bother to protest in forums but will leave the game if the game go full tilt serving hardcore players without regards to casual players who represent majority.

[Hashberry.4510]

I am a casual, only open world content for me. I vastly prefer HoT, for what its worth. Not that PoF is bad, but HoT has provided a continuous challenge for a solo player like me. I am pretty sure I am part of the casual majority.

[Patchwreck.2357]

> @"Diak Atoli.2085" said:

> Heart of Thorns was a fiasco? Huh, you learn something new every day...

>

> I prefer the Heart of Thorns metas over Path of Fire's, yet I prefer the open maps of PoF more. I find the mobs in both maps to be of equal difficulty. Personally, they should continue to release content inspired by both.

>

> As always, your opinions may vary.

>

> _Edit for spellcheck._ :#

 

A lot of ppl quit because of HoT and have started coming back because of PoF. Casuals make up the majority of the income for almost all mmos and there for its a fiasco to loose a lot of the ppl who keep the lights on.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Patchwreck.2357" said:

> > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said:

> > Heart of Thorns was a fiasco? Huh, you learn something new every day...

> >

> > I prefer the Heart of Thorns metas over Path of Fire's, yet I prefer the open maps of PoF more. I find the mobs in both maps to be of equal difficulty. Personally, they should continue to release content inspired by both.

> >

> > As always, your opinions may vary.

> >

> > _Edit for spellcheck._ :#

>

> A lot of ppl quit because of HoT and have started coming back because of PoF. Casuals make up the majority of the income for almost all mmos and there for its a fiasco to loose a lot of the ppl who keep the lights on.

 

What is a casual player? It doesn't sound descriptive of someone who spends a lot of time or money on a game.

 

Does casual player mean "unskilled" and "mainly pve"?

 

 

Edit: I think HoT is great. Easy, and breezy and beat in a week PoF doesn't seem like it's gonna make the same long term memory storage as all the fall deaths I had in HoT lol

[Diak Atoli.2085]

> @"Patchwreck.2357" said:

> > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said:

> > Heart of Thorns was a fiasco? Huh, you learn something new every day...

> >

> > I prefer the Heart of Thorns metas over Path of Fire's, yet I prefer the open maps of PoF more. I find the mobs in both maps to be of equal difficulty. Personally, they should continue to release content inspired by both.

> >

> > As always, your opinions may vary.

> >

> > _Edit for spellcheck._ :#

>

> A lot of ppl quit because of HoT and have started coming back because of PoF. Casuals make up the majority of the income for almost all mmos and there for its a fiasco to loose a lot of the ppl who keep the lights on.

 

As I said, opinions may vary. I consider myself a casual player, yet I loved HoT. As for the 'a lot of people quit because of HoT,' I can say nothing except I've seen no evidence of it.

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Emberstone.2904" said:

> Masteries are why I quit during HoT. It felt like I couldn't do anything unless I spent hours searching for mastery points in those pain in the kitten maps, and then spent even more hours farming meta events.

>

> All of that, just so my character could crawl into a hole or stand on a mushroom. Was pretty stupid IMO. PoF does them a bit better as they're paced in such a manner as to present you with a mastery challenge (such as jumping over a wide gorge with the raptor) by about the time you'd have that mastery unlockable. But I still think mastery gating is kind of stupid regardless.

>

> It'd be less annoying if XP gained also earned me mastery points instead of having to complete certain achievements, or find mastery points in annoying locations on the map. Sometimes, those mastery points are even gated behind other masteries. It just feels like arbitrary gating to do simple stuff.

 

Well, they want you to play the content, they want you to explore. To get you to do that they added countless mastery points at certain locations in the open maps. Especially since they gave you this fancy new toy (glider) to explore around with. It never felt to me like there was a serious XP grind. It takes maybe a day of playing normally to get the later, more expensive ones and even then it's still a nice way of progressing imo. There are so many events there, not just meta events, which really make this a breeze unless you refuse to participate in any of them. Hell, you can even farm it from mobs (especially during those events)

 

1 Tarir Meta with 200% participation gives you what.. 300k exp ballpark numbers? Normal events give you 26k + 2-3k per mob you tag, I'd argue that gets close to 50k easily every time. Most notably the defense events in Verdant Brink.

 

So if you genuinely didn't feel any excitement when gliding high up in the sky to find a platform or strongbox to get a mastery point.. then idk. Exploring is a key feature of this game and placing mastery points all over is certainly a fun way to get people to do it. There are also enough for this to never be a hard gate

[Patchwreck.2357]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Patchwreck.2357" said:

> > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said:

> > > Heart of Thorns was a fiasco? Huh, you learn something new every day...

> > >

> > > I prefer the Heart of Thorns metas over Path of Fire's, yet I prefer the open maps of PoF more. I find the mobs in both maps to be of equal difficulty. Personally, they should continue to release content inspired by both.

> > >

> > > As always, your opinions may vary.

> > >

> > > _Edit for spellcheck._ :#

> >

> > A lot of ppl quit because of HoT and have started coming back because of PoF. Casuals make up the majority of the income for almost all mmos and there for its a fiasco to loose a lot of the ppl who keep the lights on.

>

> What is a casual player? It doesn't sound descriptive of someone who spends a lot of time or money on a game.

>

> Does casual player mean "unskilled" and "mainly pve"?

>

>

> Edit: I think HoT is great. Easy, and breezy and beat in a week PoF doesn't seem like it's gonna make the same long term memory storage as all the fall deaths I had in HoT lol

 

Doesn't spend a lot of hours a day playing or have a lot of time to play. Because they don't do raids and t4's that much they buy gold instead of farming it to get skins bag expansions toy etc. pugs a lot or does a lot of open world, the game is for fun and not a second job.

[BlueJin.4127]

Yes, it is hard to do some stuff in HoT without a group, and it’s not always easy to find groups. Doing things in a group also restricts freedom to explore at one’s own pace. Still, I’m enjoying the heck out of HoT. The maps can be confusing, but I love how unique the map design is. Having a lot of meta events is another refreshing change of pace. I’m all for variety.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I'm a very casual player, and I've never bought Gold to get Skins, Bag Expansions, Toys, or anything else.

Some players, casual or not, enjoyed HoT, and not PoF. Some players, casual or not, enjoyed PoF and not HoT. Some players, casual or not, enjoyed both...or neither.

Revenue for both expansions and the period after their releases is about the same, so it looks like both did well enough.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Considering the claims that PoF maps are dead and that HoT maps are thriving...

 

PoF maps may have appealed to some players, HoT maps are healthier for the game.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Patchwreck.2357" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > @"Patchwreck.2357" said:

> > > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said:

> > > > Heart of Thorns was a fiasco? Huh, you learn something new every day...

> > > >

> > > > I prefer the Heart of Thorns metas over Path of Fire's, yet I prefer the open maps of PoF more. I find the mobs in both maps to be of equal difficulty. Personally, they should continue to release content inspired by both.

> > > >

> > > > As always, your opinions may vary.

> > > >

> > > > _Edit for spellcheck._ :#

> > >

> > > A lot of ppl quit because of HoT and have started coming back because of PoF. Casuals make up the majority of the income for almost all mmos and there for its a fiasco to loose a lot of the ppl who keep the lights on.

> >

> > What is a casual player? It doesn't sound descriptive of someone who spends a lot of time or money on a game.

> >

> > Does casual player mean "unskilled" and "mainly pve"?

> >

> >

> > Edit: I think HoT is great. Easy, and breezy and beat in a week PoF doesn't seem like it's gonna make the same long term memory storage as all the fall deaths I had in HoT lol

>

> Doesn't spend a lot of hours a day playing or have a lot of time to play. Because they don't do raids and t4's that much they buy gold instead of farming it to get skins bag expansions toy etc. pugs a lot or does a lot of open world, the game is for fun and not a second job.

 

I think its a bit of a stretch then to say a "majority" of their income comes from those types of players.

 

I would bet most of their money comes from players who say "this is my main game" regardless of the hours they play.

 

Money comes from loyal player, not casual players. Nintendo had to learn that lesson, and sadly many of the FTP mmo's have not.

 

Loyalty saved ESO, not casuals. Loyalty has kept WoW going for 14-15 years, casuals have not.

 

It's not the hours you play, it's the conviction you have to the game. Even a person who plays only a few hours a week can still get into raids.

 

This "flimsy" casual we speak of will get bored and flake, and then no more money (if any ever did) will come from their wallet and into Anet's profit.

[Haco.1546]

I agree, but my opinion is a little different: I loved HoT because of its complexity, irritated me sometimes but in the end gave a sense of conquest. It was as if you had several paths to follow while PoF had 2. HoT passed the feeling of new and dangerous place, as if you had been thrown there. In Auric Basin the difficulty diminished. But then we arrived in tangled depths, as I love that map, are several biomes within a single map, and you have the skies, the forest, the underground and the aquatic part. Particularly wanted the PoF desert to have this complexity, Kourna is the closest to this (I love the part of the water abyss). I understand that by being a casual game the way the PoF maps were made are more enjoyable, but I think the complexity gives more life to the place, longevity to the gameplay (by the way the Path of Fire of WoW was pretty cool and ESO had his HoT but HoT is unsurpassed) (Haha jokes, ok?) (Yeah, i'm dull). I loved the bounties and goals make me feel in the final battle of an anime. In my opinion, the ideal would be a bit of these two exp, as if HoT and PoF were two points and the ideal the medium.

Aaaaaand, sorry for mistakes but i'm not fluent in english so I asked the translator for help (or "I used the translator" is much better, i don't know).

[TexZero.7910]

They are both overcorrections.

 

HoT overcorrected the Meta issue while fixing difficulty (after several failed attempts)

PoF overcorrected HoT's "timer/group heavy" meta's while significantly dumbing down content to RNG bounties because that's close enough to group stuff right....

 

Here's hoping whoever is designing expansion 3 realizes that a happy medium is needed. Map meta's are good just don't tie them explicity to day/night cycle.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Considering the claims that PoF maps are dead and that HoT maps are thriving...

>

> PoF maps may have appealed to some players, HoT maps are healthier for the game.

 

You're welcome to the opinion that HoT maps are healthier for the game. However, I would suggest that HoT maps are conducive to a particular play-style, that of congregating in large groups. PoF maps are more conducive to exploration, and going it alone. It would seem to me that what is healthy for the game as a whole is a mix of large group and solo/small group content, not all of one or all of the other. Maybe what ANet can do going forward is to present an expansion that includes both, rather than one that is mostly A or mostly B.

 

As to the thread topic... No, PoF was not an apology. It was, instead, a reaction to many players complaints about HoT. In the same way, the Istan meta is a reaction to complaints about lack of/unrewarding meta events on PoF maps.

 

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

I prefer HoT. I dislike PoF. Main reasons:

- Landscape: I like green and water, I dislike desert. Apart from the snowy/green zones north in Desert Highlands, PoF does not offer much landscape I like. Purely a matter of taste of course.

- Foes: I like to explore and gather. In PoF areas, due to the amount of foes, everywhere, causing a continuous need to fight for every single node/plant/tree... I got bored over time. I have stopped going back there. I now return to those areas only if I have something specific to do there.

 

I like to explore, observe things around, discover the limit of the graphic, gather... Therefore, for me, HoT works better thanks to a good balance in term of foes repartition and how bad they are at fighting. All in all, the areas in HoT offer - for me personally - a lot more flexibility than the ones in PoF.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Considering the claims that PoF maps are dead and that HoT maps are thriving...

> >

> > PoF maps may have appealed to some players, HoT maps are healthier for the game.

>

> You're welcome to the opinion that HoT maps are healthier for the game. However, I would suggest that HoT maps are conducive to a particular play-style, that of congregating in large groups. PoF maps are more conducive to exploration, and going it alone. It would seem to me that what is healthy for the game as a whole is a mix of large group and solo/small group content, not all of one or all of the other. Maybe what ANet can do going forward is to present an expansion that includes both, rather than one that is mostly A or mostly B.

>

> As to the thread topic... No, PoF was not an apology. It was, instead, a reaction to many players complaints about HoT. In the same way, the Istan meta is a reaction to complaints about lack of/unrewarding meta events on PoF maps.

>

 

The HoT maps are healthy in a sense that they keep players playing the game compared to PoF maps which can quickly be completed with no reason to go back. Pretty much the same as the other LS maps with exception to Istan. The way that the OP presents PoF is an exaggeration.

[Patchwreck.2357]

> @"Diak Atoli.2085" said:

> > @"Patchwreck.2357" said:

> > > @"Diak Atoli.2085" said:

> > > Heart of Thorns was a fiasco? Huh, you learn something new every day...

> > >

> > > I prefer the Heart of Thorns metas over Path of Fire's, yet I prefer the open maps of PoF more. I find the mobs in both maps to be of equal difficulty. Personally, they should continue to release content inspired by both.

> > >

> > > As always, your opinions may vary.

> > >

> > > _Edit for spellcheck._ :#

> >

> > A lot of ppl quit because of HoT and have started coming back because of PoF. Casuals make up the majority of the income for almost all mmos and there for its a fiasco to loose a lot of the ppl who keep the lights on.

>

> As I said, opinions may vary. I consider myself a casual player, yet I loved HoT. As for the 'a lot of people quit because of HoT,' I can say nothing except I've seen no evidence of it.

Not an opinion, the game had a larger pop before HoT than after.

[https://inanage.com/2018/02/05/estimating-gw2s-population/](https://inanage.com/2018/02/05/estimating-gw2s-population/ "https://inanage.com/2018/02/05/estimating-gw2s-population/")