Haishao.6851 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 PoF felt like high level starter zones to me. I only go there for certain dailies and if I want something specific that can only be acquired there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben K.6238 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I'm happy to have completed the remaining collections and achievements in the HoT maps finally; they were never really maps that I enjoyed for their own sake. There's a lot of problems with whether content in the PoF maps can even be completed, by comparison, but I much prefer spending time in those places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diak Atoli.2085 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"Rhyse.8179" said: > Who changed the thread title? Now it's duplicating the name of another thread. > > Is the forum bugging out today? Either the OP changed it, or the moderators did. I believe it's more likely the moderators did. Either way, the other thread was created after the name change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi M.7428 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 TBH after I finished pof I Havnt revisited the area since because there’s NOTHING to do. HOT literally had so much replayability I am so sad they went away from huge map wide metas. Sorry I don’t take 3 months to finish 1 zone in pof because I call myself a casual.....so sick of the word casual being an excuse to demand solo playing in a mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosleepdemon.1368 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"Rhyse.8179" said: > I see a few people asking why HOT was considered a fiasco. It's important to remember that HOT today is very different from what it was like at release. > > **The Hype** > 1. Elite Specs were pushed hard as the core feature of the expansion, and everyone wanted theirs. They even had a "sample weekend" before launch, where pre-orders could try out the elite specs before the release. People loved them - it's what everyone wanted. > 2. Then, when release came, it was learned that not only did the specs had to be unlocked (this was never stated before release) and that it took 500 hero points to do it. 500 is literally every single HP in the entire expansion. Core Only has 380 or something, so even if you had 100% core map completion it didn't help much. Basically, for every character you wanted to espec you had to 100% map complete the entire expansion. Including every alt. > 3. In addition, map completion was locked behind the masteries, and locked hard. Many POIs or HP's were in poison fields for example, that you need Nuhoch 7 mastery to enter. There was no possible way to get this without the mastery, not even mesmers could help. > 4. Masteries took 5x (not a typo) more XP then they do today. It easily took a month of grinding the expansion content (remember, you can't get HOT mastery xp unless in HOT maps) before you could fully unlock your espec. Truly hardcore grinders could maybe do it in 3 weeks, but for most people it was over a month. I remember personally running VB for an entire week before I could unlock bouncing mushrooms, which is a required step in the story. > 5. People were PISSED. The one thing... ONE THING! ... they had expected from the expansion was hard locked behind a month of grinding. > > **Meta Events:** > 1. To make matters worse, running meta events required hours of commitment. > 2. At the time, the events did not award by completion of events in the chain, but by "meta event progression" and "participation level." Say you did the VB Pact Encampment chain, and made it until all 3 leaders were found. That's about 20% completion, and entitles you to a pitiful reward. That would take about half an hour Remember, no one had especs unlocked yet, so power creep was limited and events took much longer. > 3. To get 100% completion in VB for example, you had to start at the beginning and go all the way through the complete night meta. > 4. In addition, you had to be actively running each event, or you'd get a low % of participation level, and lousy rewards. Explores got left in the lurch. > 5. This meant that a 90 minute single play session was required to get the map rewards - and you had to be doing the events the entire time. > 6. The event XP - vital to unlocking masteries and thus the coveted especs - was included in these meta rewards. > 7. This is why people are saying that meta events lock out casual players or map explorers. Because, at the time, they actually did. > > **All That Changed** > 1. Especs now require 250 HPS, or about half the expac. It's just over two maps worth. > 2. Meta events are now broken into sub-events that reward you as you go. You can play for half an our and get the full half an hour worth of map rewards. > 3. Hard locked HP's in VB and AB were made accessible without the masteries. You still need them to 100% the expac (esp in Dragon Stand) but you can at least unlock your espec sooner. > 4. Mastery XP requirements were reduced by 5x. Yes, literally 5x. > > **Summary** > HOT was a hot mess when it launched. It was a horrible experience for anyone except the most hardcore players, and even they were mad because grinding was not what was advertised. Every complaint you hear about HOT was 100% justified. However, by the end of the year, Anet had fixed it. A lot of those complaints are not valid anymore. Nonetheless, it's what people who were there remember, especially if they quit before the fixes came out. HOT as it stands today is some of the best content in the game. > > The problems with POF come down to Anet not remembering that their fixes to HOT *worked*. Instead of realizing that they had (eventually) found a winning formula they swung full round the other direction and lost everything they gained. I thought the idea of farming your skills for the Elite spec was a neat idea; progression doesn't just get you new shinies, your character becomes more adept as well. It didn't quite work out though as the creeps were hard enough to require a fully functional spec to defeat. That was my only complaint though, I very much enjoyed the difficulty and complexity of the maps and the crazy 2 hour meta events that you could actually *fail*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milomilome.6837 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Mounts from PoF helped making Core Tyria fun again , and certainly help reducing HoT annoyances.. That's the beauty of PoF expansion , you can use the mount masteries everywhere and enhance the whole game... unlike HoT masteries (gliding excepted)... who use frog people language outside HoT ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyse.8179 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: >snip for length You're right, I misremembered some details. 400 HP's is still [100% of the HP's in the expac](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hero_point "100% of the HP's in the expac"). I overstated the experience changes; mastery XP was not reduced, but XP gain in HOT maps and from the events was increased. Events were in fact broken up and rewards distributed within the chains. [Here's the patch notes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/April_2016 "Here's the patch notes") Still some major changes. I bought it in March so I got to see both sides of that patch as a "new to HoT" player, and speaking for myself at least, they made all the difference in the world. > @"nosleepdemon.1368" said: > I thought the idea of farming your skills for the Elite spec was a neat idea; progression doesn't just get you new shinies, your character becomes more adept as well. It didn't quite work out though as the creeps were hard enough to require a fully functional spec to defeat. That was my only complaint though, I very much enjoyed the difficulty and complexity of the maps and the crazy 2 hour meta events that you could actually *fail*. The basic idea was fine, the issue was how steep the climb was and that nobody was warned it would even be there. It was a classic failure to set expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"Rhyse.8179" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > >snip for length > > You're right, I misremembered some details. > > 400 HP's is still [100% of the HP's in the expac](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hero_point "100% of the HP's in the expac"). True. > I overstated the experience changes; mastery XP was not reduced, but XP gain in HOT maps and from the events was increased. Events were in fact broken up and rewards distributed within the chains. [Here's the patch notes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/April_2016 "Here's the patch notes") I was referring to your statement that masteries took 5x as more XP then as they do today. It wasnt an overstatement of changes as no changes were ever made. I looked through your link and the only XP changes I saw was a 50% increase from enemies and an increase from adventures. Nothing about increases from events. I could have missed it though since there’s a lot of notes for that update. > Still some major changes. I bought it in March so I got to see both sides of that patch as a "new to HoT" player, and speaking for myself at least, they made all the difference in the world. I don’t disagree that they made a lot of changes. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > "well designed meta events"....lol...carrying supply boxes from A to B is some EPIC gameplay > > As opposed to the casino meta where players run around collecting coins and then all stack and DPS a boss that doesn’t fight back. Truly epic but regarded as a well designed meta to some. > > Edit: Oh, it’s also on a fixed timer too even though people complained about that sort of thing with HoT metas. > > i never even tried that, it simply looked lame to me the big difference is, that in PoF , i can simply skip it it doesnt block any progression , as HoT metas do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo Chocolate.5870 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"Fenella.2634" said: > > > @"Rhyse.8179" said: > > > The one downside is no non-meta maps, so casual explorers are kind of left out. > > This has been said by several people and I admit I don't get it. :) How do the meta events prevent players from exploring? Aside from DS, of course. > > I didn't even know there was a meta event at TD until I had practically finished map completion anyway. Very few POIs are locked by events from time to time, but that happens in core Tyria and in the PoF maps, too, and to a similar degree. > > So, what exactly is stopping explorers on the HoT maps specifically? > > > > They don't. But good luck getting people who never visit HoT to understand that. For some reason, they believe that the meta is the only reason to be there an that you can't accomplish anything as a solo player. As you say, this is only true of DS. But this view persists among HoT haters for I really have no idea what reason. I think at least part of the reason is that, when HoT was new, the meta events often caused waypoints to become contested. This meant that if you died while exploring Verdant Brink (which was very likely for a lot of players because the new enemies were tougher than they were used to), you had to go back to Shipwreck Peak waypoint - as I recall this was often the only non-contested waypoint in the whole map if you weren't in a map instance that was actively attempting to complete the meta event. Of course, this was one of the things that was changed with the [update to HoT in April 2016](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/April_2016 "update to HoT in April 2016") (four waypoints in Verdant Brink and three in Auric Basin were changed so that they no longer became contested as much), but I'm guessing that many of the players who don't like HoT haven't been back since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenghisKhan.7842 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 LOL, reading this topic I felt glad I left before HoT release, I kinda tolerate how it is today by playing in it with all mounts unlocked, most likely I had hated it at launch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosleepdemon.1368 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I keep meaning to come back and finish PoF, but the problem I always had with GW2 was that the story never did anything much for me. The vanilla game and HoT are/were similar in that the world feels more like something to explore, and the "story" is pieced together from various quest hearts, set pieces and events. The personal story was alright, up to the formation of Destiny's Edge. PoF unfortunately brings writing fully to the fore with its scripted missions, and it's just kind of gross. MMOs in their absence of decent story telling tend to be about the M part for me, so when I play GW2 I almost always play events or fractals where I find other players to have a good time with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > it doesnt block any progression , as HoT metas do How exactly do HoT meta events block progression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > it doesnt block any progression , as HoT metas do > > How exactly do HoT meta events block progression? Are there areas of HoT maps where access is impacted by the meta process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevluna.3921 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 Why some HoT fanatics always go straight insulting those who do not like HoT ? OP never insult HoT fans , he just stated his preference and that's understandable.. Both POF and HOT complement each other , and that's that.. With POF's mounts , HOT become more fun , no ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephie.1275 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 my guild carried me thru HOT masteries and heroics , so it is fairly easy for me to say HOT is easy. I suspect many people also got carried by their guild or mindless zergs. If i was told to do HOT all over again as a solo explorer type player , i would refuse as i understand HOT is not for solo types. As for POF again the guild carried me and i got gryphon mount due to the guild's help and joint effort.. I can see POF have appeal to those solo explorer type player , as the mount masteries are far faster to get even with very casual types who only play 1 or 2 hours.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > it doesnt block any progression , as HoT metas do > > How exactly do HoT meta events block progression? try getting the masteries , without doing any of the metas that is one of the reasons for repeatable hearts in PoF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > it doesnt block any progression , as HoT metas do > > > > How exactly do HoT meta events block progression? > > Are there areas of HoT maps where access is impacted by the meta process? Outside Dragon's Stand there is one Point of Interest that requires meta progress. But you don't have to actively participate in it, if you port to AB late, there is a good chance it will be already open. > @"battledrone.8315" said: > try getting the masteries , without doing any of the metas > that is one of the reasons for repeatable hearts in PoF That doesn't mean they block progression. It's a type of content you can do to earn mastery experience. Btw I've never repeated one Heart in PoF and got all my mastery unlocks just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > it doesnt block any progression , as HoT metas do > > > > > > How exactly do HoT meta events block progression? > > > > Are there areas of HoT maps where access is impacted by the meta process? > > Outside Dragon's Stand there is one Point of Interest that requires meta progress. But you don't have to actively participate in it, if you port to AB late, there is a good chance it will be already open. > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > try getting the masteries , without doing any of the metas > > that is one of the reasons for repeatable hearts in PoF > > That doesn't mean they block progression. It's a type of content you can do to earn mastery experience. Btw I've never repeated one Heart in PoF and got all my mastery unlocks just fine. what other ways can a player level up HoT masteries ? grinding mobs? adventures? im guessing it would be a really long haul that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > it doesnt block any progression , as HoT metas do > > > > > > > > How exactly do HoT meta events block progression? > > > > > > Are there areas of HoT maps where access is impacted by the meta process? > > > > Outside Dragon's Stand there is one Point of Interest that requires meta progress. But you don't have to actively participate in it, if you port to AB late, there is a good chance it will be already open. > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > try getting the masteries , without doing any of the metas > > > that is one of the reasons for repeatable hearts in PoF > > > > That doesn't mean they block progression. It's a type of content you can do to earn mastery experience. Btw I've never repeated one Heart in PoF and got all my mastery unlocks just fine. > > what other ways can a player level up HoT masteries ? grinding mobs? adventures? > im guessing it would be a really long haul that way By playing the game? You know, finishing events and doing what you always do? You don't have to participate in any meta to level up a mastery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > it doesnt block any progression , as HoT metas do > > > > > > > > > > How exactly do HoT meta events block progression? > > > > > > > > Are there areas of HoT maps where access is impacted by the meta process? > > > > > > Outside Dragon's Stand there is one Point of Interest that requires meta progress. But you don't have to actively participate in it, if you port to AB late, there is a good chance it will be already open. > > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > try getting the masteries , without doing any of the metas > > > > that is one of the reasons for repeatable hearts in PoF > > > > > > That doesn't mean they block progression. It's a type of content you can do to earn mastery experience. Btw I've never repeated one Heart in PoF and got all my mastery unlocks just fine. > > > > what other ways can a player level up HoT masteries ? grinding mobs? adventures? > > im guessing it would be a really long haul that way > > By playing the game? You know, finishing events and doing what you always do? You don't have to participate in any meta to level up a mastery. isnt events part of the metas? i normally just do hearts..so where are the hearts in maguma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil.1580 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 > @"buntalanlucu.4036" said: > The PoF expansion breath new life for GW2 with it's highly accesible content for everyone and buck the trend of zone wide Meta Events from HoT , a game design that truly ignore the majority of MMORPG players which is solo explorer / casuals. Ironic. A new life? Have you been in PoF maps recently? There is anything but life there. There are hundreds of polls already which are winning in favor of HoT, by a large gap. Polls aren't even needed. All you have to do is visit the maps and you will see where people are playing. HoT is ok for casuals unless by casual you understand someone who has a hard time walking in a straight line - then yes - HoT will be hard for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > isnt events part of the metas? > i normally just do hearts..so where are the hearts in maguma? Not really. Plus a lot of them are just like events in PoF so what's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > isnt events part of the metas? > > i normally just do hearts..so where are the hearts in maguma? > > Not really. Plus a lot of them are just like events in PoF so what's the difference? i dont do the events in Pof either, but in Pof i could at least find them and get to them without a guide that is a huge difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > isnt events part of the metas? > > > i normally just do hearts..so where are the hearts in maguma? > > > > Not really. Plus a lot of them are just like events in PoF so what's the difference? > > i dont do the events in Pof either, but in Pof i could at least find them and get to them without a guide > that is a huge difference You don't need a guide for the HoT events either. So you don't do the majority of this game's content (events).. that's interesting to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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