Ashantara.8731 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > Any critique of the HoT maps is simply because you're not that good at the game and can't appreciate being immersed and challenged. I disagree. I only started to feel comfortable on the HoT maps once I became better acquainted with them (layout, sense of direction, etc.). I still find doing map completion on them extremely tedious most of the time - it's not a "good" design in my eyes to be annoyed by a map's layout, even when you have zero trouble getting around without dying and being capable of dealing with the "immersion and challenge". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Different option, i like Both, and its good to have two differently athemed expansions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzarakiel.7490 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 To be honest I want something in between HoT and PoF. HoT consists of only meta maps, which made exploring by yourself tedious. The maps in PoF are too big, which makes finding other players for group events difficult. I kind of hope the next expansion will be half PoF type map design and half HoT design. Something entirely new might also be alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProverbsofHell.2307 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > Any critique of the HoT maps is simply because you're not that good at the game and can't appreciate being immersed and challenged. > > I disagree. I only started to feel comfortable on the HoT maps once I became better acquainted with them (layout, sense of direction, etc.). I still find doing map completion on them extremely tedious most of the time - it's not a "good" design in my eyes to be annoyed by a map's layout, even when you have zero trouble getting around without dying and being capable of dealing with the "immersion and challenge". Sorry but that's your fault. You chose to get annoyed and agitated at the challenge of the complexity of the map layout. I went on Verdant Brink for the first time and was immediately excited by the challenge of navigating the map - it added an extra dimension of gameplay. I wasn't brainlessly going from A to B. I was learning and working out my route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > Any critique of the HoT maps is simply because you're not that good at the game and can't appreciate being immersed and challenged. > > > > I disagree. I only started to feel comfortable on the HoT maps once I became better acquainted with them (layout, sense of direction, etc.). I still find doing map completion on them extremely tedious most of the time - it's not a "good" design in my eyes to be annoyed by a map's layout, even when you have zero trouble getting around without dying and being capable of dealing with the "immersion and challenge". > > Sorry but that's your fault. You chose to get annoyed and agitated at the challenge of the complexity of the map layout. I went on Verdant Brink for the first time and was immediately excited by the challenge of navigating the map - it added an extra dimension of gameplay. I wasn't brainlessly going from A to B. I was learning and working out my route. So, in other words, your opinion is that you like it and their opinion is that they don't. You know, it's your fault that you don't appreciate PoF more than you do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I preferred HoT but for future expansions I want a mix of both types of content. Half the maps to have map wide metas and half to have more free-form exploration content. BTW neither is really "casual" content, "casual" players can enjoy both styles of content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > Sorry but that's your fault. How is it my "fault"? > You chose to get annoyed and agitated at the challenge of the complexity of the map layout. I "choose" the feeling a certain aspect of something is giving me? Interesting. And what about my choosing to face that "complexity" regardless of it, repeatedly, and beating the "challenge", repeatedly and flawlessly? > I went on Verdant Brink for the first time and was immediately excited by the challenge of navigating the map - it added an extra dimension of gameplay. > I wasn't brainlessly going from A to B. I was learning and working out my route. You notice that you are being extremely offensive here? I completed HoT 100% on 11 characters, and just because I "dare" to criticize certain aspects of it makes you deduct that I was "brainlessly navigating" the maps? Wow. Because it is impossible to be able to quickly navigate the maps once you know your way around and still find it a rather unappealling task? :s Just accept that not everyone likes your beloved HoT unconditionally and stop being so rude about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Cutter.9376 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > Too much bias in the question, for my taste. For example, I like HoT more than POF, but what if POF were as profitable to farm as HOT is? Then suddenly it becomes a whole different question. I think mounts have done more for the game over all than gliding and when I factor mounts in, even though I like HoT zones better, I like POF better, but that's not really an option in this poll. > > The problem is HoT metas are profitable and POF isn't profitable and because of that a lot of people are going to like HOT better. They say it's because of the metas but if the metas in POF has the kind of rewards Dragon Stand and AB had, it might be a whole different story. > > Over all, I think anything gleaned from this poll is bound to mislead. The bias is in the phrasing of the options. I was going to point that out too, most peoples' "enjoyment" of HoT content is entirely based on the disproportionate amount of rewards it provides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProverbsofHell.2307 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > Sorry but that's your fault. > > How is it my "fault"? > > > You chose to get annoyed and agitated at the challenge of the complexity of the map layout. > > I "choose" the feeling a certain aspect of something is giving me? Interesting. And what about my choosing to face that "complexity" regardless of it, repeatedly, and beating the "challenge", repeatedly and flawlessly? > > > I went on Verdant Brink for the first time and was immediately excited by the challenge of navigating the map - it added an extra dimension of gameplay. > > I wasn't brainlessly going from A to B. I was learning and working out my route. > > You notice that you are being extremely offensive here? I completed HoT 100% on 11 characters, and just because I "dare" to criticize certain aspects of it makes you deduct that I was "brainlessly navigating" the maps? Wow. Because it is impossible to be able to quickly navigate the maps once you know your way around and still find it a rather unappealling task? :s Just accept that not everyone likes your beloved HoT unconditionally and stop being so rude about it. Well you still have control over your emotions and thoughts. You for some reason felt annoyed by the map rather than embracing the depth of it. Also you misunderstood that last part. I didn't say "you" were brainlessly navigating the maps. I was suggesting that PoF maps are brainless in terms of exploration and traversal, in comparison to HoT. Please calm down, I'm not "attacking you" or being personal, let's not do that. I was simply saying you were approaching the maps with the wrong attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > I was going to point that out too, most peoples' "enjoyment" of HoT content is entirely based on the disproportionate amount of rewards it provides. If Maw had the same amount of rewards as AB then I still wouldn't run it at all. Same with Junundu Rising and Forged with Fire. I would maybe run the casino and serpent's ire a bit more though. The ridiculous waiting game for the PoF meta events to start since there is no timer, nor a simple indicator on when it's going to start, is far more important than the rewards. Furthermore, the inability to even know if a meta event is running from a vast distance is another limiting factor. Maws of Torment event status is available only really close to it, which means unless you map complete around there or you are finishing the heart there, there is absolutely nothing to do around there but wait. Same goes for the other two, Junundu Rising and Forged with Fire. Forged with Fire is probably the worst because once the meta event chain begin you can only SEE it if you go inside the Forged cave, yet there is NO REASON to enter that cave. The Casino meta and Serpent's Ire are on a nice schedule timer, so you know when to expect them to start. Augury Rock is not on a timer, but the meta status is visible around 3/4 of Elon Riverlands, only the southern edge doesn't provide information on the meta status. This means you can do anything you desire, hunt for bounties, finish achievements, map complete, mine mithril or whatever else at the vast majority of the map and never lose track of the meta status. Plus it has so many phases that change regularly that is really easy to participate in that meta, even without a timer. The rest of PoF's meta events are horrid and no amount of rewards boost will fix them. Edit: And one more thing: Meanwhile, with the exception of Dragon Stand that is on a strict timer, ALL Heart of Thorns maps provide you with opportunity to do a lot while waiting for the meta to start. You can finish any of the Outposts in Verdant Brink and always know if the meta is close to starting. You can choose and power up any pylon you want in Auric Basin and not miss the meta, you can fix any outpost in Tangled Depths, and again always have access to the meta information. Even without using any timer, the game itself is giving all the information you need to plan ahead. On the other hand, the meta events in Path of Fire last a very little time and they have absolutely no connection with any other events around them so you never know when they are up, until they are up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substance E.4852 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 "group content" is a pretty loaded term to describe HoT over PoF. You can't do many of the bounties solo because of how massive their HP pools are. Nevermind content like Augury Rock or Serpents Ire. Anet needs to get back to doing actual group content that involves parties in instanced areas with specific loot assigned to each area. Basically, revive the dungeon system. Hell, they can even try their hand at some kind of instanced map meta sized content where you queue up and it launches when X number of people are signed up. Complete it and you get some kind of debuff (maybe hidden to prevent clutter) that prevents you from sighing up again for 3 hours or w/e. It let's people have their blob content while still allowing Anet to create maps that actually feel like real MMO areas rather than just a fancy box to hold a chain of meta events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > Well you still have control over your emotions and thoughts. You cannot _force_ your self to like something. You can "force" yourself to make the best out of it, which I did, but that's not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"Substance E.4852" said: > "group content" is a pretty loaded term to describe HoT over PoF. > > You can't do many of the bounties solo because of how massive their HP pools are. Nevermind content like Augury Rock or Serpents Ire. > > Anet needs to get back to doing actual group content that involves parties in instanced areas with specific loot assigned to each area. Basically, revive the dungeon system. > > Hell, they can even try their hand at some kind of instanced map meta sized content where you queue up and it launches when X number of people are signed up. Complete it and you get some kind of debuff (maybe hidden to prevent clutter) that prevents you from sighing up again for 3 hours or w/e. > > It let's people have their blob content while still allowing Anet to create maps that actually feel like real MMO areas rather than just a fancy box to hold a chain of meta events. Actually, the majority of PoF bounties can be done solo (I can personally solo all but 30 out of 112 available bounties, including legendaries). But then I can solo every HoT HP champion and they tend to be significantly less difficult. I think the issue is that they are hero point challenges, where PoF bounties are mostly not needed for anything. So players feel the need for a group more in HoT, despite the fact that the champions-on-demand there are much easier than in PoF. For some players, I suppose this is a positive. They don't feel forced to participate in content they don't enjoy in order to obtain the rewards they want. But at the same time, it seems a bit of a negative as the reason they don't feel forced is that there isn't really much to do in the first place or any compelling reason to do it! I think ANet could have handled this better. While I agree with the decision to move champions-on-demand over to the bounty system and downgrade hero point challenges to veteran status, they definitely would have done better to follow HoT's event structure. Chain events and big metas are clearly more appealing than random one-off events, provided the incentives exist and open world squads can reasonably be expected to complete the events. PoF failed pretty hard at this, so I suppose you could say it's not as group-centric...but it's really just because there's not much content one way or another! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil.1580 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 The HOT content is on a completely different level. Specifically speaking of the meta events. It is hard but not frustrating hard and it is super fun and well rewarded. Just look at the time PoF died after the release. This is an MMO. We need group events - the more people the better. While there were super cool things introduced in PoF, I can say HoT is the better expansion. In the 3rd expansion, I would like to see something mixed from both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardid.7203 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Just to be clear about my vote: IMO HoT is VASTLY superior, not only on the group/meta aspect, but ALSO in the exploration/casual one. Exploring HoT is much, much more interesting and rewarding, and playing casual is also more interesting and fun. Participating in the metas as a casual is extremely fun when you don't know the content, and once you know it, you can help better without having to become a pro, at all. IMO PoF is only better for casuals if your definition of casual is "I can only move on straight lines". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojo.6140 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I like HoT more. The maps are more interesting because of their verticality and they offer more replayability with their meta-events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProverbsofHell.2307 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > Well you still have control over your emotions and thoughts. > > You cannot _force_ your self to like something. You can "force" yourself to make the best out of it, which I did, but that's not the same thing. I'm not sure I agree, after all, that's why acquired tastes are a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foozlesprite.8051 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I'm not sure I like the wording..."PoF Expansion (casual/explorer) or HoT expansion (group/meta)" That almost seems to me like it's asking if you prefer casual/explorer vs. group/meta play, and that's not the same question at all. Both expansions have a mix, and I wouldn't define either by simple terms. Basically, I like Rauderi's suggestion/wish about wanting something that blends both well. Give us metas that don't lock solo progress around the zone while they're going on. In Verdant Brink at night? You're probably going to be steamrolled by a Mordrem defense event when you use a waypoint. Auric Basin? Good luck accessing Tarir. Need to go through Chak Central for a story mission while Gerent is going on? Ahahaha. Make it a big enough part of the zone, with enough reward that people will participate (difficulty-to-reward ratio + location are the main reasons I've seen people cite for not doing the PoF metas), but out of the way of the story updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > Well you still have control over your emotions and thoughts. > > > > You cannot _force_ yourself to like something. You can "force" yourself to make the best out of it, which I did, but that's not the same thing. > > I'm not sure I agree, after all, that's why acquired tastes are a thing. What does taste have to do with emotions? Feeling that a certain task is tedious has nothing to do with taste. I can say, "Hey, HoT maps have a unique and interesting design (which they do) and I like it (which I do)!" That is a question of taste. But feeling either excited or aggrevated by performing a specific task in the environment, that's a personal emotion, not a question of taste. There are regions in each HoT map that I like better than others (taste), but saying that I find map-completing _most_ parts of HoT maps rather tedious is what I am _feeling_, and that I can't change (so all I can do is decide to put up with it or leave it, and I chose the former). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProverbsofHell.2307 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > > Well you still have control over your emotions and thoughts. > > > > > > You cannot _force_ yourself to like something. You can "force" yourself to make the best out of it, which I did, but that's not the same thing. > > > > I'm not sure I agree, after all, that's why acquired tastes are a thing. > > What does taste have to do with emotions? Feeling that a certain task is tedious has nothing to do with taste. > > I can say, "Hey, HoT maps have a unique and interesting design (which they do) and I like it (which I do)!" That is a question of taste. But feeling either excited or aggrevated by performing a specific task in the environment, that's a personal emotion, not a question of taste. There are regions in each HoT map that I like better than others (taste), but saying that I find map-completing _most_ parts of HoT maps rather tedious is what I am _feeling_, and that I can't change (so all I can do is decide to put up with it or leave it, and I chose the former). Maybe the problem is the way you're playing. For example, why did you feel you had to map complete it on 11 characters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > > > Well you still have control over your emotions and thoughts. > > > > > > > > You cannot _force_ yourself to like something. You can "force" yourself to make the best out of it, which I did, but that's not the same thing. > > > > > > I'm not sure I agree, after all, that's why acquired tastes are a thing. > > > > What does taste have to do with emotions? Feeling that a certain task is tedious has nothing to do with taste. > > > > I can say, "Hey, HoT maps have a unique and interesting design (which they do) and I like it (which I do)!" That is a question of taste. But feeling either excited or aggrevated by performing a specific task in the environment, that's a personal emotion, not a question of taste. There are regions in each HoT map that I like better than others (taste), but saying that I find map-completing _most_ parts of HoT maps rather tedious is what I am _feeling_, and that I can't change (so all I can do is decide to put up with it or leave it, and I chose the former). > > Maybe the problem is the way you're playing. For example, why did you feel you had to map complete it on 11 characters? Maybe your opinion is no more than your opinion and everyone else is welcome to feel however they wish to feel about it? What is the point of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phs.6089 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I prefer PoF, I like HoT but still prefer PoF, wish there was something rewarding for people to start doing PoF metas and it would be perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProverbsofHell.2307 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > > > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > > > > Well you still have control over your emotions and thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > You cannot _force_ yourself to like something. You can "force" yourself to make the best out of it, which I did, but that's not the same thing. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure I agree, after all, that's why acquired tastes are a thing. > > > > > > What does taste have to do with emotions? Feeling that a certain task is tedious has nothing to do with taste. > > > > > > I can say, "Hey, HoT maps have a unique and interesting design (which they do) and I like it (which I do)!" That is a question of taste. But feeling either excited or aggrevated by performing a specific task in the environment, that's a personal emotion, not a question of taste. There are regions in each HoT map that I like better than others (taste), but saying that I find map-completing _most_ parts of HoT maps rather tedious is what I am _feeling_, and that I can't change (so all I can do is decide to put up with it or leave it, and I chose the former). > > > > Maybe the problem is the way you're playing. For example, why did you feel you had to map complete it on 11 characters? > > Maybe your opinion is no more than your opinion and everyone else is welcome to feel however they wish to feel about it? What is the point of this? Who said people can't feel how they wish? Who said my opinion wasn't an opinion? We're having a discussion, stop throwing accusations around, this forum is bad enough for being ridiculed as a safe spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > Maybe the problem is the way you're playing. Maybe the problem is that I had no problem until you started telling me that I had a problem, that it was my "fault", that I "must be doing something wrong" if I cannot enjoy what you enjoy. > For example, why did you feel you had to map complete it on 11 characters? Because I am a completionist? Why do you even care? > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > Who said people can't feel how they wish? You still don't get the concept of _feeling_ do you? ;) Anyway, let it go. It's okay to disagree on content, but it's really inappropriate to tell others how they should feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon.4537 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 There ought to be a 4th option in the poll saying "I like both" or something to that effect. I really enjoy periodic massive map meta events with big world bosses, but I also enjoy the more casual running around on my mount doing things at my own pace. I can see the appeal in both styles. If I had to chose one, I would prefer the HoT style meta event maps, however I believe there is room in the game for both types of map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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