Upcoming Herald Changes...hmm

[Miles Smiles.8951]

idk why they encourage to hold on to passives again, judging by the Hardening Persistence rework. stupid mechanic

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

>why must we get a profession similar to the Guardian? What's the point?

>

> Looking forward to the changes, but really: two Guardian professions now?

You reaching

 

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> I just hope glint or some other legend retains the passive boon duration buff.

 

I dont. It was such a small bump in duration that didnt really seem worth it.

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"Rashagar.8349" said:

> I'm not really interested in how it shapes up balance-wise, but from a thematics perspective I still find myself naturally resistant to change. Going to keep my mind open about it, and hope for the best.

 

hey people were mad at OH Sword change, yet look how that turned out... just saiyan.

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > Core Rev is near perfect:

> >

> > * Shiro is slow.

> > * Mallyx doesn't save you from condis.

> > * Jalis can't tank.

> > * Ventari doesn't heal that much.

> >

> > ...So nobody can call you op.

>

> Simply untrue. I wanted to respond to your other comment about this as well, but it won't change a thing anyway. Continue to believe that Rev (or herald in particular as you said) is trash! Have a good day.

 

whats untrue? core Rev is trash. straight up garbage. most people agree on that and run ES.

[Buran.3796]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > @"Rashagar.8349" said:

> > I'm not really interested in how it shapes up balance-wise, but from a thematics perspective I still find myself naturally resistant to change. Going to keep my mind open about it, and hope for the best.

>

> hey people were mad at OH Sword change, yet look how that turned out... just saiyan.

 

Turned into that staff is the single block weapon the Rev has in the game. Which means that if you want to play condi you must either a) lack blocks or b) swap to a weapon which for 10 seconds will provide you almost no damage. Also compromised all future specializations, because if you want sustain the two handed staff will be mandatory. So if the next weapon is, lets say, a offensive greatsword, and you want sustain you can't play gs + swords. And is the same with power due staff, albeit physical, barely does damage. Old off hand block could be used with mace and shortbow for a much better condi damage while having some sustain, or new mainhand weapon could be combined as sword + axe/ ? + sword to keep sustain while having more offensive setup.

 

The spike of damage the off hand sword currently provides arrived in the exchange of being forced to play with a tool with no damage (staff) for 10 seconds each time you need a block.

[Gihn.1043]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> ye. I like the prot on heal interaction with ventari too. pls don't nerf anet!

 

move to salvation maybe? but that would be more dangerours, i guess, since it looks like they're looking specifically at herald, no mention of moving around core, and salvation is not in a strong place outside of dedicated healing :/

[Gihn.1043]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> Core Rev is near perfect:

>

> * Shiro is slow.

> * Mallyx doesn't save you from condis.

> * Jalis can't tank.

> * Ventari doesn't heal that much.

>

> ...So nobody can call you op.

 

the ones i would definitely disagree with is shiro and ventari, shiro is unbelivably mobile, almost godly in the right hands, and ventari is the most raw healing power focused build in the game bar none (notice raw healing, druid firebrand and co beat it due to supplying separate boons and buffs that leave poor centaur in the dust).

 

oh yeah, mallyx is a crawling tragedy compared to beta, where nerfs were needed but incredibly overdone. jallis is also very inefficient at tanking, due to only applying stab reliably and having to trait for things like retal etc, and its ulti has benefited from the energy cost buff, but is still hard to pull off in pinches where youve already spent all your energy on other skills TO LET YOU SURVIVE LONG ENOUGH FOR THAT CAST TIME.

between these, two rev needs the most help, and once-over on ventari as well. glint and shiro have been regarding as the most reliable legends for so long its high time the rest of them get their turn in the light (yes that includes kalla)

 

>@"Blocki.4931" said:

>Simply untrue. I wanted to respond to your other comment about this as well, but it won't change a thing anyway. Continue to believe that Rev (or herald in >particular as you said) is trash! Have a good day.

 

that is equally as unhelpful, because while there are now great strengths to the rev, there are DEFINITELY some problems remaining on the class that shouldnt be shrugged off like that. fingers-in-ear attitudes wont improve this in any way.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> >why must we get a profession similar to the Guardian? What's the point?

> >

> > Looking forward to the changes, but really: two Guardian professions now?

> You reaching

 

Sorry, I don't understand. Reaching for what?

[narcx.3570]

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> Nerf?

> From what was mentioned in those changes, it didn't seem to me anything like nerf.

 

I think PvP/WvW players are mostly concerned about the Facet of Nature change since in it's current state it's a cheap/easy/brainless way of pumping up Elder's Focus before one-tricking somebody. I'm sure there will be other things to compensate, but any f2 changes will likely be melee range AoE effects which probably sounds very unappealing to those hammer revs out there.

 

I think we can all at least agree that the changes seem interesting and are at least more in line with the modern state of the game... Whether or not it'll actually be good is up in the air (I wouldn't super get your hopes up), but it does sound like it'll be a little more engaging to play and the attention is certainly appreciated.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

What i hope for is that it'll make glint viable in healing specs. If you're in a situation you need to go for dedicated healing spec, then it's obvious that asides ventari only Kalla can hold up due to elite. Any other legend is just 10s of survivial game for your team. And as we know the flaw of ventari healer is poor boon support from this legend. Except for alacrity, any other boon you muster when in this legend is achieved through some outside means (runes, herald/renegade traits, mace might blasting)..

 

Glint should be a natural partner for ventari, one providing superb healing with some boons, other providing superb boon coverage with sufficient healing to ensure safe legend swap.

[Vornollo.5182]

Reworks are always so double...

On one hand, I'm actually quite hyped about what I've read so far, but on the other hand I'm just so scared that they'll screw up the existing (and rather fun!) builds that one could run as a Herald.

Plus, Renegade needs a rework way more... Heck, even core Revenant needs a fair bit more love.

I recently attempted to run a Core Revenant in the PoF maps for a bit (*felt like creating another alt Rev, despite having 2 already...*) to get the HP's for Elite Specs... It felt so restrictive. Revenant just always feels like it's been designed to use Elite Specs from the very moment it's been in development. Shiro is good, has some nice damage and rather solid mobility, but you can't really comfortably pair it with Jalis, because Jalis just feels clunky and frankly quite boring to me (pop the Vengeful Hammers and that's about it in PvE anyway) for Power builds.

With Condi, you only really got Mallyx, which I do like... But it doesn't really have a different stance to swap to. But yeah, a Hybrid with Shiro/Mallyx works fairly decent for Core Rev with just weapons and utilities, but then the traits feel lackluster outside of Corruption and Invocation. Devastation's obviously nice, but it doesn't really play into the Hybrid setup...

It's all manageable, but it just doesn't feel optimal. Nomatter your playstyle and gamemode, you won't feel complete unless you've got an Elite Spec paired with it... I really believe that's the result of the Core Profession being designed with Elite Specs in mind, compared to the other Core Professions.

 

Gah... Can't do anything but wait and see.

And hope that at least Renegade is next up on the Rework list...

 

EDIT:

> @"narcx.3570" said:

 

> I think PvP/WvW players are mostly concerned about the Facet of Nature change since in it's current state it's a cheap/easy/brainless way of pumping up Elder's Focus before one-tricking somebody. I'm sure there will be other things to compensate, but any f2 changes will likely be melee range AoE effects which probably sounds very unappealing to those hammer revs out there.

 

Coming from someone who runs Rev solely in PvP and WvW (mostly WvW), other than my little adventure mentioned above (*which I cut short after the first map, deciding to just unlock the specs through the WvW Heroics Notary*).

I don't use F2 as a way to benefit from Elder's Focus most of the time. Playing in/around the Frontline, you will usually want to use it to (re)cover other boons to combat Boonstrip/Boonsteal instead. For the Backline, you could indeed use it for the easy Elder's Focus access, but it's a bit of a waste because in most groups you're also usually better off to just leave it on for the extra boon-uptime, or to quickly pop it if you need Protection if you got to keep up with your Melee group in terms of positioning.

For roaming... Sure you could pop it for a quick wombo-combo, but against remotely decent players, it simply won't work like that. They see you coming, they deny your burst and then what..? You're still much better off using it according to the situation.

 

Nomatter if you're playing sPvP or WvW, it's a pretty massive group utility to just blow out for Elder's Focus. Especially considering you tend to get plenty of boons from your team/party/squad already, or just using your Facets...

 

Obviously, mindless zerglings will spam buttons for extra damage regardless of the Profession they play though...

[Kossuth.2168]

> While Glint may have bided her time in the distant past, we wanted to push more impactful gameplay to this specialization and began with the F2 ability, Facet of Nature. Previously, this facet would grant nearby allies an increase to their outgoing boon durations. Soon**`it will instead`**grant allies prowess based on the legend that you invoke!

Man... I don't like this. I don't trust Anet until we have a clear and detailed description of the changes.

[Buran.3796]

> @"Gihn.1043" said:

 

> the ones i would definitely disagree with is shiro and ventari, shiro is unbelivably mobile, almost godly in the right hands, and ventari is the most raw healing power focused build in the game bar none (notice raw healing, druid firebrand and co beat it due to supplying separate boons and buffs that leave poor centaur in the dust).

 

Shiro no longer can speed up the cast of skills from weapons since the removal of quickness from Impossible Odds (the difference is huge in slow weapons as the hammer or the mace) and the increased consumption of energy in Phase Traversal (20 to 35, long time ago) makes **the feeling and flavour of the class totally different of what we had at the release with HoT**.

 

You can argue that they reduced the energy cost of IO but now that skill only function is to move from point to point and I've using lately Renegade in Conquest and oh surprise!, the shortbow depletes the energy so fast that you can barely use Shiro's utilities (or you use them and then you can barely attack). Which is other of the problems with Herald: since is the only source of passive switfness once you remove this legend you're forced to either use IO or the Rapid Flow trait to gain increases in speed, and both are highly demanded in terms of energy (a resource which has to be shared between utilities and weapon skills).

[Master Ketsu.4569]

> @"Exalted Quality.8534" said:

> a massive nerf in PvP/WvW.

 

Nothing they have mentioned suggests even a small nerf in PvP. In fact shield being buffed to remove condis is one of the occasionally requested buffs for shield rev in sPvP. Plus they mentioned boon ripping which is generally always not a PvE focus.

 

 

 

 

[Klypto.1703]

The posts I've read basically show how bad of a state rev has been since HoT launched mostly fear of like the shield if its still going to use mechanics to make you a sitting duck and dead the second after it stops working. Anyways I hope these stationary rev aspects are part of the changes to remove them to pave the way for renegade to finally become useful if we get that far with changes.

[Einlanzer.1627]

Core Rev needs changes more than either Herald or Renegade, IMO.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> Core Rev needs changes more than either Herald or Renegade, IMO.

 

Anet wants to cut the static boon farting :) so other classes that they play will becomes the only way to stack n spam boon farting :D

 

Aka.. make mesmer more important than actually is, so players dont feel like they could stack boons and give alacry w/o a mesmer.

 

 

Since all that matters is boons spam due how and dull basic game is, no matter what ANet does, things wont be used lol....look at raids.. stack in 1 place spamming while mobs aoe hitts arround players missing most times... lol, mobs dont even remove boons nor condis, and stay static... just keep up the condi and boon spam to meta gimmicks classes to cut effort, for wannabe kewl players.

This is what the game FEELS is becoming more and more.

[Buran.3796]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

 

> Nothing they have mentioned suggests even a small nerf in PvP. In fact shield being buffed to remove condis is one of the occasionally requested buffs for shield rev in sPvP. Plus they mentioned boon ripping which is generally always not a PvE focus.

>

 

 

Since the PoF release shield no longer can work in PvP/duelling/roaming. PoF increased exponentially the amount of condition and cc based AoEs in the game.

 

Shield #5 (block) = roots you

Root = you die

Shield = you die

 

Why would you use a weapon designed to kill you?

 

The shield has a very large cooldown (compared to staff # 3 which on top of blocking does blind nearby enemies) and makes you a easy prey for condition AoEs and CCs in game modes in which mobility is key for survival. It doesn't provide retaliation, stability, or any kind of defensive buff lasting enough to become relevant. Lacks the mobility, soft cc and bursting damage that both axe and the off hand sword offers, so wielding a shield nerfs your offensive mixups and combos in exchange of... nothing. Really nothing.

[Rym.1469]

Seems like we may get a new elite specialization with PoF after all.

[otto.5684]

First, I could think of at least 10 other elites that require rework ahead of herald. All what was needed is a rework of shield.. and I would put renegade on the top of remake list.

 

Second, herald is currently top tier in PvP and pretty good in PvE, so... This will either kill herald or make it over powered. Why did not they just fix shield instead of all the bullshit is beyond me.

 

Shiro boon removal?! That would have been really good for mallyx. Giving power herald boon removal is beyond unwarranted.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Kossuth.2168" said:

> > While Glint may have bided her time in the distant past, we wanted to push more impactful gameplay to this specialization and began with the F2 ability, Facet of Nature. Previously, this facet would grant nearby allies an increase to their outgoing boon durations. Soon**`it will instead`**grant allies prowess based on the legend that you invoke!

> Man... I don't like this. I don't trust Anet until we have a clear and detailed description of the changes.

 

Its basically what i like the most about it.

It finally brings an interaction with the core and increases herald build diversity.

I am tuned how it will turn out but i am tuned.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Kossuth.2168" said:

> > > While Glint may have bided her time in the distant past, we wanted to push more impactful gameplay to this specialization and began with the F2 ability, Facet of Nature. Previously, this facet would grant nearby allies an increase to their outgoing boon durations. Soon**`it will instead`**grant allies prowess based on the legend that you invoke!

> > Man... I don't like this. I don't trust Anet until we have a clear and detailed description of the changes.

>

> Its basically what i like the most about it.

> It finally brings an interaction with the core and increases herald build diversity.

> I am tuned how it will turn out but i am tuned.

 

This is how I feel about it too. Setting myself up for disappointment, but very excited I'm general to see what they do.

[Rasp Sabreblade.5421]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> First, I could think of at least 10 other elites that require rework ahead of herald. All what was needed is a rework of shield.. and I would put renegade on the top of remake list.

>

> Second, herald is currently top tier in PvP and pretty good in PvE, so... This will either kill herald or make it over powered. Why did not they just fix shield instead of all the kitten is beyond me.

>

> Shiro boon removal?! That would have been really good for mallyx. Giving power herald boon removal is beyond unwarranted.

 

I think the Herald re-work is being done first so Anet can modify Kalla/Renegade

 

This is how I would like to see the Rev interact with boons when channeling a Legend - meaning you have to actually use them, not just trait them. shiro does X dmg to foes based on the number of boons they have. Mallyx should corrupt boons, and Jalis should reduce the dmg you receive based on the number of boons your attacking foe has on them. Then glint can just flat out remove them. Not sure how Venturi and Kalla would deal with boons on foes.

 

edit:

Renegade summons should steal boons to buff themselves. Thus, making them do more dmg and be more tanky without making them OP, since they can still be killed.

Venturi could nullify boons - so your foe still has boons, but it puts them on a time out for X duration.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Rasp Sabreblade.5421" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > First, I could think of at least 10 other elites that require rework ahead of herald. All what was needed is a rework of shield.. and I would put renegade on the top of remake list.

> >

> > Second, herald is currently top tier in PvP and pretty good in PvE, so... This will either kill herald or make it over powered. Why did not they just fix shield instead of all the kitten is beyond me.

> >

> > Shiro boon removal?! That would have been really good for mallyx. Giving power herald boon removal is beyond unwarranted.

>

> I think the Herald re-work is being done first so Anet can modify Kalla/Renegade

>

> This is how I would like to see the Rev interact with boons when channeling a Legend - meaning you have to actually use them, not just trait them. shiro does X dmg to foes based on the number of boons they have. Mallyx should corrupt boons, and Jalis should reduce the dmg you receive based on the number of boons your attacking foe has on them. Then glint can just flat out remove them. Not sure how Venturi and Kalla would deal with boons on foes.

>

> edit:

> Renegade summons should steal boons to buff themselves. Thus, making them do more dmg and be more tanky without making them OP, since they can still be killed.

> Venturi could nullify boons - so your foe still has boons, but it puts them on a time out for X duration.

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand waht about ventari??? boons u say?? Rev already have lots of boon removal...

Even alies fail to noticed healing tablet nearby and move out... of the small radios heal :expressionless: and not counting with the delay the skills have..

 

Skills need to act faster and allied table(it needs to be a freakign pilar lol)t needs to be more visible, some consumes are to punishive, due the atention and e-manaegent class requires + where to positioning and who needs tablet heals and boons lol...