Discussing the upcoming Herald changes

[meri.9187]

After looking at the Herald changes hitting next week, I'm happy that our class is getting some looks by the balance team, but at this point, I'm more concerned for Herald in PvP/WvW. It's S tier in WvW and at the very least A tier in PvP. I've played the class since it's come out and shaking up the status quo after 3 years is worrying, especially when that status quo is working so well right now.

 

Losing Facet of Nature and its consume skill is going to be awful for our boon stacking. However, the new Facet of Nature embodies something that a lot of revenants have wanted- interaction of the elite spec with our other legends, and it should be dynamic. That said, we'll have to see the numbers. My personal hope is that the original Facet of Nature/One with Nature are still accessible if used in Glint stance.

 

My prediction is that we see a nerf to offhand sword as well as personal might generation in this patch, while gaining more defensive consistency through the new HP and whatever other traits they add. I would be very sad to see Elder's Force go, and I hope it stays in the game as it's a huge part of PvE herald's viability. However, I'm interested to see the balance team hopefully rework/give some buffs to some lesser-used or non-used traits such as: Swift Gale (could use a damage modifier while you have superspeed up), Harmonize Continuity (lul), and Soothing Bastion (OMEGALUL). Speaking of which, the new Hardening Persistence looks very nice and gives us more options against condition builds, I can't complain about that, but since it's in the Master line, we'll have to sacrifice some might gain.

 

Underwater herald makes underwater rev even more OP. Hype.

 

Of course, we haven't seen all the changes, and it's quite possible (actually, more likely) that there will be one or more huge changes that haven't been mentioned as of yet. I'm just hoping the changes aren't so sweeping that herald loses the playstyle it currently has. Counting on you, balance team!

[DanAlcedo.3281]

We get AoE Stab and AoE Boon Rib.

Cant complain.

 

Maybe they want to make Renegade the Dmg Spec and Herold more support. (WvW)

 

Renegade is awful for Power dmg....

One dodge and you loose 33% crit chance...

 

Lets hope the fix that also.

[Ertrak.9506]

I'm curious to see if they're going to change how we might stack.

 

If make the might stacking more active theres a change we'll able to actually solo stack 25 might *on allies*. This would be huge for herald in probably every game mode.

[Diesel Stelar.3709]

> @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> After looking at the Herald changes hitting next week, I'm happy that our class is getting some looks by the balance team, but at this point, I'm more concerned for Herald in PvP/WvW. It's S tier in WvW and **at the very least A tier in PvP**. I've played the class since it's come out and shaking up the status quo after 3 years is worrying, especially when that status quo is working so well right now.

 

Stopped reading after this statement. You've been playing a different game obviously.

 

 

 

[meri.9187]

> @"Diesel Stelar.3709" said:

> > @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> > After looking at the Herald changes hitting next week, I'm happy that our class is getting some looks by the balance team, but at this point, I'm more concerned for Herald in PvP/WvW. It's S tier in WvW and **at the very least A tier in PvP**. I've played the class since it's come out and shaking up the status quo after 3 years is worrying, especially when that status quo is working so well right now.

>

> Stopped reading after this statement. You've been playing a different game obviously.

>

>

>

 

Herald is performing well in PvP at mid-high levels of play. Herald is also a great WvW roamer. I'm playing a game in which herald, as it stands currently, works just fine.

[Euthymias.7984]

I'm very interested in what these changes can offer. Some of the trait changes in particular seem promising.

I'll be cautiously optimistic that they wont miss the mark on this.

[Catchyfx.5768]

Congratz Revs, i Hope this Will buff Herald.

-Jeallous Necro

[Blocki.4931]

Where might I see those upcoming changes? Can't seem to find them

[Elric.4713]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Where might I see those upcoming changes? Can't seem to find them

 

[Here you go.](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/ "Here you go.")

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Elric.4713" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > Where might I see those upcoming changes? Can't seem to find them

>

> [Here you go.](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/ "Here you go.")

 

Thank you very much!

[Astralporing.1957]

What is worrying is that the examples given seem to suggest defensive/healing support approach, but what is really needed for Herald (at least in PvE) is the boost to _offensive_ support. It's theoretically a support spec, and yet in PvE noone uses it for that.

[Amethyst Lure.5624]

It's quite likely that this also comes with a rebalancing in WvW or pvp in mind as well. No doubt they attempt to go for better design (and sounds it) but perhaps they find the situation with power rev a bit problematic there.

 

anyway, I am quite surprised this comes before a Renegade look. Which lends to the above a bit.

[Buran.3796]

> @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> > @"Diesel Stelar.3709" said:

> > > @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> > > After looking at the Herald changes hitting next week, I'm happy that our class is getting some looks by the balance team, but at this point, I'm more concerned for Herald in PvP/WvW. It's S tier in WvW and **at the very least A tier in PvP**. I've played the class since it's come out and shaking up the status quo after 3 years is worrying, especially when that status quo is working so well right now.

> >

> > Stopped reading after this statement. You've been playing a different game obviously.

> >

> >

> >

>

> Herald is performing well in PvP at mid-high levels of play. Herald is also a great WvW roamer. I'm playing a game in which herald, as it stands currently, works just fine.

 

Herald is an absolute trash in PvP. Saw the last couple of hours of the 1 vs 1 tournament hosted by Jawgeous last Saturday and was dominated from start to end by Mesmers, with a couple of Warriors and a Holo and a Ranger here and there (barely surviving up to the round in which only offensive amulets were allowed and the passive defenses disabled). Only then had those three a small chance againts Mesmers (which anyway didn't work). Rest of classes (Necros, Guardians, Eles, and of course Rev) were demolished, and the only Herald I saw was one shooted in less than 6 secs by a Deadeye. Stealth class are utterly dominant in anything related to 1 vs 1 or roaming, with only space in Conquest for the role of tanky bruisers (a build which neither core Rev, Herald or Renegade had). Any time you see a Herald filling a slot in a monthly AT, is only due the player likes the class, because a Mirage instead would do a better job (but no longer matters because the competitive scene is a 1 year rooting corpse, so people don't bother of playing memes).

 

Didn't saw the exact nature of the changes, but I would guess than in order to buff the supporting nature of Herald in the niche game mode of PvE raids they butchered even more the already diminished capabilities of the single viable PvP build... This class is becoming less and less fun to play month after month since its release.

[Justine.6351]

Not enough info to go on.

 

I am going to go out on a limb and say the new "consume" aspect of herald skills will grant a damage buff through a trait that replaces Elder's Force though. Anet has been putting an emphasis on active game play and currently that trait is relatively passive for what it grants.

[Kidel.2057]

Hardening Persistence: Gain damage reduction based on your active energy upkeep, and your shield abilities now remove conditions.

 

The shield will be useful again. This is enough for my tired Herald soul.

I just hope that personal damage is not nerfed now that Power Herald is decent.

[X T D.6458]

Its about time they reworked Herald, it is such an uninteresting and uninspired spec. Boon spamming needs to be nerfed and there needs to be better synergy with other traitlines which these changes appear to do. And finally glint will be usable underwater.

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

well, i'm curious to say the least. i absolutely hated the Herald gameplay up til now. maybe Herald will finally become worthy of association with Glint.

[Knighthonor.4061]

Before Discussion of this change here a link and copy paste of the post by Anet for those that didnt see.

 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

Revenants were introduced with Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™ to aid in the skirmishes and battles against the Elder Dragon Mordremoth. They brought their ability to invoke the power of the legendary dragon Glint to the fray.

 

With the next balance update, we’re making a bunch of changes to the specialization line to bring herald up to date; Glint undoubtedly foresaw this.

 

First, each of the existing facet skills has had its corresponding active skill labeled as a consume skill. This is to help differentiate the two, and it allows for a bit more variation in some traits.

 

While Glint may have bided her time in the distant past, we wanted to push more impactful gameplay to this specialization and began with the F2 ability, Facet of Nature. Previously, this facet would grant nearby allies an increase to their outgoing boon durations. Soon it will instead grant allies prowess based on the legend that you invoke!

 

For example, embodying King Jalis Ironhammer will reduce the damage each of your allies receive. If you’re channeling the vicious nature of Shiro Tagachi, allies around you will steal health from enemies they strike. Should you decide to invoke a different legend while the Facet of Nature is active, the boost you grant to your allies will change with you, allowing you to adjust on the fly.

 

Furthermore, the consume skill True Nature also changes with the legend you are channeling. Each legend’s True Nature skill sticks with their theme, but does so in a different fashion from the facet. Using the True Nature of the legendary dwarf will grant each of your nearby allies several stacks of stability—maintaining defense, but against crowd control instead of damage. For the legendary assassin, the F2 skill will strip nearby enemies of their boons, maintaining his offensive and aggressive style.

 

In revamping the herald traits, we themed it more closely to the compassion of Glint, who sought to shield humanity from the Elder Dragons and sacrificed herself toward that end. This left us with three distinct themes:

 

Assisting humanity.

Unifying a group of champions.

Channeling her gift of prophecy.

These themes are going to be embodied in the specialization trait line through:

 

Lending magical aid to allies with healing and boons.

Focusing on the facets of Glint and enhancing those powers of hers.

Turning inward and channeling potency to yourself.

Here are a few example traits, both new and existing:

 

Elevated Compassion: Heal other allies when you grant them a boon.

Helping allies in a two-for-one manner by granting health while powering them up.

 

Core Value: Improve the active effects of your True Nature (F2) ability.

This trait strengthens the effect of your F2 consume skill, making your choice of which legend to channel when activating this skill more meaningful. For example, using True Nature as Shiro with Core Value active strips a greater number of boons from nearby enemies.

 

Hardening Persistence: Gain damage reduction based on your active energy upkeep, and your shield abilities now remove conditions.

This trait was previously in the adept tier and is now a master-tier option. Its toughness has been replaced with a percentile damage reduction, and it now improves your shield abilities so that they remove conditions from affected allies.

 

Also, you can now channel Glint underwater.

[Knighthonor.4061]

Now some things I want to talk about and suggest.

 

Since Harden Persistence is a Master Tier trait now with a percentile damage reduction instead of toughness, I would hope the Damage reduction would scale base on how little energy you may have while the upkeep is up. This way Revenants get the most of this Trait when lower on Energy and channeling upkeep compared to when Higher in energy and doing the upkeeps. this adds a reward/risk factor for players that use a lot of their energy and can bunker it up even more as their energy goes down.

 

As for Elevated Compassion:, I hope the heal here is not Regeneration Boon, but a nicely scaled heal.

 

When it comes to Core Value:, I would further this trait by having it add additional effects to FoN/Consume instead of just increasing the number of boons/conditions or whatever the baseline does.

Like for example with Shiro , instead of ripping more Boons than base, perhaps it corrupts 1 boon now and heals you for each of the other boons ripped. Dwarf converts Conditions into Boons on you and nearby allies 2 every 2 seconds for 6 seconds along side the base effect. Ventari adds a barrier to nearby allies and heal them along side the base effect. Demon base FoN could be some kind of Boon Corruption and Core Value can add some Condition transferring. As for Glint, I would prefer if it wasnt a Boon Duration but some other effect that is useful and not as passive in design since upkeeps are already passive enough. Would take a leap/teleport or some kind of CC here would be nice.

 

Swift Gale, would be nice if this was replaced with something a bit more useful.

[Knighthonor.4061]

Oh yeah lets not leave out Shield. It got a trait to remove Conditions now, but lets change the core Shield abilities to be more useful across the board. how to best make that happen?

[Gihn.1043]

the boon removal on shiro is surprising to me. is that not in mallyx's wheelhouse, what with a couple traits and a skill already for that?

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"Gihn.1043" said:

> the boon removal on shiro is surprising to me. is that not in mallyx's wheelhouse, what with a couple traits and a skill already for that?

 

No Mallyx is Boons corruption while Shiro has Boon removal

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Mallyx has no boon corruption currently. It is mostly boonstrip with one boonsteal trait, and one condition transfer trait. I was also surprised to see the boonstrip attached to Shiro, but perhaps the Brutality trait was a sign. I hope Mallyx gets something more than just torment application.

[Caligrafers Blade.3871]

Wow, for someone who loves Herald, I had mostly given up on any further improvement. Power build is still good, but we needed some more cohesion of the profession as a whole. Heck, the shield was definitely a disappointment.

 

Honestly, I'm just glad they considered Herald at all. The changes do seem promising, more streamlined in some cases, like the change in Facet of Nature and boon strip on Shiro. On occasions, I was forced to use Mallyx on a power build for boon strip, and it really felt like I was wasting whole traits and the legend itself. Happy about Glint underwater too. Would be fun to use her against Bubbles, whenever he/she drops. I could do with some cc on the shield though. I think almost every other profession's shield skill has some cc, right?

 

Well, whatever it is, thanks Anet. Waiting with bated breath.

 

p.s. Anet, doesn't mean I'm letting you go regarding Renegade.

 

 

 

 

[narcx.3570]

Who's ready to be wildly disappointed?!?!? woooo!