perilisk.1874 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Is there any chance that the combo system will get an overhaul? It was certainly something that I thought was interesting prior to the release of GW2. However, it's not really living up to its potential right now. Partly, the issue is that powercreep has made it so that single skills can directly, predictably do what combos used to do. Partly, the issue was always that combos felt like a random, unpredictable side bonus rather than an intentional aspect of gameplay. Especially in groups, where there were so many fields that overwrote others and the battlefield was a blur of particles. It seems to me that this mechanic is long-overdue for a rethink. If it was as much a main mechanic as other things like boons, conditions, CC, etc., it would be another tool to balance professions and make some stand out from others. Elementalists would be a natural fit for the combo-support+DPS profession. Just a few suggestions, if you are planning to take a look at combo mechanics: * Don't overwrite fields. Instead, stack them. You wouldn't let players override each others' damage or support AoEs, and no longer do so with condi applications, so why do so with combos? Obviously, this may result in the need to rebalance combos, or limit more strictly how many times a field skill can apply the combo effect. * Consider using the field-providing player's stats for the magnitude of the combo effect (while the finisher player could determine things like range, AoE size, or number of targets), and let both halves of the combo share participation/tag credit (unless that's already the case?). Maybe even make the magnitude something that can vary from field to field, to provide more control over balance. * Be more sparing with fields on skills -- it should be an actual meaningful mechanic of the skill that is considered in skill balancing, just like damage or conditions or CC; not something just slapped on because it's thematically appropriate. * Let combo fields pulse an actual "combo" effect with a brief duration (something like the guardian justice effect, but probably stackable?) which is removed when a finisher is used. Aside from probably being necessary technically to stack combos, it will also give a little more visibility as to what will happen when a player uses a finisher, allowing combos to be used more intentionally. * Consider building out the system more -- e.g., a new finisher class, or ways other than fields to apply combo effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 Posted August 22, 2018 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted August 22, 2018 Combo fields are a system we've wanted to do better for a long time. It is deeply embedded in the game, but several of the mechanics you've mentioned here are items I've been wanting to more deeply investigate. Time is always the limiting factor. And we could stand to teach it a bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coro.3176 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 I can't count the number of times I've been in WvW and the commander calls to stack might, and some clueless guardian drops a light field symbol.. sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"coro.3176" said: > I can't count the number of times I've been in WvW and the commander calls to stack might, and some clueless guardian drops a light field symbol.. sigh. Or you go to stack stealth as an engineer in a smoke field, and your healing turret's water field gets blasted instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > @"coro.3176" said: > > I can't count the number of times I've been in WvW and the commander calls to stack might, and some clueless guardian drops a light field symbol.. sigh. > > Or you go to stack stealth as an engineer in a smoke field, and your healing turret's water field gets blasted instead. This used to not happen until they moved the turret detonation from toolbelt to util slot and made the overcharge part of placing a turret :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said: > > And we could stand to teach it a bit better. Can be said about a lot of things in GW2, sadly. Still, I welcome any, good tutorials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archmagus.7249 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 The unfortunately thing is that not many people know how fields and finishers work. it's very important for endgame and wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 > @"archmagus.7249" said: > The unfortunately thing is that not many people know how fields and finishers work. it's very important for endgame and wvw. I'd argue it's way less important for WvW than it used to be. Most of WvW blobbing is just coordinating whatever mess of AoE boon denial and damage you have all at once with everyone running around invulnerable for most of the fight. Most builds have and/or share permanent capped boons without fields. Resistance nullifies things like weakness (blasting poison) and control conditions. Blasting water fields for sustain and managing cleanses/group utility kinda died a long time ago. Even most of the top-tier roaming builds don't really use them. Between soulbeast, mirage, deadeye, and holosmith (which basically camps PF thanks to endurance regen food), the only combo fields and finishers really utilized are smoke fields. Most of what the combo fields do has been made pointless due to powercreep as it is. There's little purpose in wasting skills to blast fields if those skills if spammed will 100-0 someone regardless of whether or not you have a fire aura or leeching bolts or retal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodWithGravy.8019 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said: > Combo fields are a system we've wanted to do better for a long time. It is deeply embedded in the game, but several of the mechanics you've mentioned here are items I've been wanting to more deeply investigate. Time is always the limiting factor. > > And we could stand to teach it a bit better. If you know combos are underperforming and don’t have any plans to fix them any time soon, can you please stop making Ele PvP and roaming builds dependent upon them for both sustain and damage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloc Freidon.5692 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Combo tooltips could explain what they do with icons or something. Maybe a legend in the Build Tab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheri.5406 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"archmagus.7249" said: > > The unfortunately thing is that not many people know how fields and finishers work. it's very important for endgame and wvw. > > I'd argue it's way less important for WvW than it used to be. > Most of WvW blobbing is just coordinating whatever mess of AoE boon denial and damage you have all at once with everyone running around invulnerable for most of the fight. Most builds have and/or share permanent capped boons without fields. Resistance nullifies things like weakness (blasting poison) and control conditions. Blasting water fields for sustain and managing cleanses/group utility kinda died a long time ago. > > Even most of the top-tier roaming builds don't really use them. Between soulbeast, mirage, deadeye, and holosmith (which basically camps PF thanks to endurance regen food), the only combo fields and finishers really utilized are smoke fields. > > Most of what the combo fields do has been made pointless due to powercreep as it is. There's little purpose in wasting skills to blast fields if those skills if spammed will 100-0 someone regardless of whether or not you have a fire aura or leeching bolts or retal. This, very much. Look at GvG or PvP gameplay from pre HoT and compare it to post HoT or PoF. The differences are huge. With the exception of some builds (e.g. engi and their heal turret, occasional moments where fields are blasted in coordinated groups, ...) combos are a negligable aspect of the game. Why would you use water blasts if your FBs pressing ANY of their skills will apply more boons, more cleanse and more heals more reliably. Combos just aren't worth the effort at the moment. By all means a blast finisher has value - but it's not reliable and not aimed to use tactically. Just like everything else it's just spammed for whatever bonus it gives. Timing and rotating your skills is more important than coordinating your skill usage well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithranArkanere.8957 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 This is all I ever wanted when it comes to combo fields: * Make all finishers trigger all combo fields in their path. * Make it so each type of field triggers only once per pulse per creature no matter how many skills they use and how many stacked fields of the same type are there. * Each skill activation would also trigger each individual field only once, no matter how many attacks it does. * All finishers would always trigger all the fields they cross, those 20% chances that appear often with projectile finishers only make things less intuitive. * Pulsing fields would count as a one separate field per pulse. So it would be possible to trigger a 3s combo field 3 times with 3 Cluster Bombs or a single Rapid Fire. * Improve the effects of all combos considering they can not be spammed as much. * Rename "Smoke" fields to "Dust" fields, so they can work thematically with more kinds of skills like Earth magic. * Introduce a new type of field called something like "Crystal field": * Projectiles cause Torment. * Whirls cause Tormenting bolts. * Leaps cause magnetic aura for 1s. * Blast produce retaliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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