Fix Deadeye Stealth or get rid of Stealth Traps

[Celsith.2753]

> @"Heibi.4251" said:

>

> You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

>

>

 

We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

[babazhook.6805]

The Stealth Trap is NOT useless and in particular if used in conjunction with other skills or players.

 

As example, when on my warrior I use it in conjunction with On My Mark . This gives me 3 reveals in short order. The thief relying on Smeld has two ways to counter revealed. if the thief sticks around they generally die. Once they burn off that second reveal they tend to flee.

 

A group of two or three can use Stealth traps in conjunction with reveal type skills against a lone thief using stealth and Smeld rather then just running in all directions blindly trying to catch him should be bounce from stealth. Recognize that in a 45 second period the thief has two ways to remove revealed. If you and or your team have 4+ reveal type sources the thief runs out of Smeld before you run out of reveal. If your team is un-coordinated as in two players using a reveal at the same time, the thief will have an easier time of it.

 

The Thief that does NOT trait SA (Countering the claim most do not take it as the line useless) has much less a change of surviving against Channeled attacks. As another pointed out just starting some like Rapid fire when the theif appears is enough to do that thief in. The problem I see with too many rangers is they use the same sequence of attacks everytime oftimes burning off RF or Knockback before the most opportune moment. Good rangers will save these for when Thief most Vulnerable.

[Heibi.4251]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> >

> > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> >

> >

>

> We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

 

No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

[Celsith.2753]

> @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > >

> > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

>

> No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

 

Awesome can you link where they said it or was it on the old forums? Either way, my assumption would still be.. those pesky hiding mesmers.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > >

> > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

>

> No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

 

well, they obviously didnt intend that effect for deadeye because they introduced shadow meld.

 

 

[Heibi.4251]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > >

> > > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

> >

> > No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

>

> well, they obviously didnt intend that effect for deadeye because they introduced shadow meld.

>

>

 

They overlooked it, as usual.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

> > >

> > > No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

> >

> > well, they obviously didnt intend that effect for deadeye because they introduced shadow meld.

> >

> >

>

> They overlooked it, as usual.

 

What was ANET's intention? Here's the release:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/#new-features-5

 

You wanna try again?

 

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Heibi.4251" said:

> Every DE we've encountered in WvW inside a keep or tower or SMC has been using the perma-stealth method to avoid being killed. We had an entire zerg dropping traps everywhere in one case and the DE would appear for about a half a second and go right back in, and not appear again unless they attack or got hit by a trap(only to stealth immediately right after). So they are definitely running traits for perma-stealth.

 

why are you wasting the time of an entire zerg trying to force a fight on someone build to avoid fights(permastealth)? i mean that doesnt sound all too clever to me. why dont you use the deadeyes intention to kill him?

they can be in there for 2 reasons. killing people or flipping the structure.

for both the best tactic is to leave the structure. if they just want to kill they leave as well. if they want to flip the structure, giving them a feeling of safety will encourage them to try going for the lord. during the lord fight they are most vulnerable to ganks. useless minstrel guards jumping around in the tower do not help anyone to solve your issue, they just ensure your deadeye has no reason to fight. so leave that job to your servers roamers and gankers, everyone has some.

unless ofc you have noone on your server with the abilities to gank a deadeye that is fighting with a lord, then yeah get your zerg or try to bore the thief out. you know after a few hours some reallife needs will kick in, while you can take turns, he cant :3 but it would be pretty sad if your server really had noone able to gank someone fighting with a lord.

[Heibi.4251]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

> > > >

> > > > No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

> > >

> > > well, they obviously didnt intend that effect for deadeye because they introduced shadow meld.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > They overlooked it, as usual.

>

> What was ANET's intention? Here's the release:

> https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/#new-features-5

>

> You wanna try again?

>

Nope. Says exactly what I have been saying.

 

Traps have been added as a new purchasable consumable utility item. Two unique variants are available.

When placed, traps last for one hour.

Players may only have one of a given trap type deployed at a time.

Traps will disappear when a player leaves the map.

Traps are sold by the vendor for 15 badges and 525 karma; they will stack to 250 and are account-bound.

It takes a 4-second channel to place at feet.

Placing a trap uses very short-range ground targeting to assist in orientation.

Placed traps have a 600×90 rectangular trigger area; only enemies can trigger them.

Once triggered, traps affect up to 20 enemies within a range of 1200.

Traps cost 10 supply to place.

 

Stealth Disruptor Trap

**

Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth.**

 

 

[Turk.5460]

> @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

> > > > >

> > > > > No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

> > > >

> > > > well, they obviously didnt intend that effect for deadeye because they introduced shadow meld.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > They overlooked it, as usual.

> >

> > What was ANET's intention? Here's the release:

> > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/#new-features-5

> >

> > You wanna try again?

> >

> Nope. Says exactly what I have been saying.

>

> Traps have been added as a new purchasable consumable utility item. Two unique variants are available.

> When placed, traps last for one hour.

> Players may only have one of a given trap type deployed at a time.

> Traps will disappear when a player leaves the map.

> Traps are sold by the vendor for 15 badges and 525 karma; they will stack to 250 and are account-bound.

> It takes a 4-second channel to place at feet.

> Placing a trap uses very short-range ground targeting to assist in orientation.

> Placed traps have a 600×90 rectangular trigger area; only enemies can trigger them.

> Once triggered, traps affect up to 20 enemies within a range of 1200.

> Traps cost 10 supply to place.

>

> Stealth Disruptor Trap

> **

> Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth.**

>

>

 

And where in that does it state ANET's intention for creating the traps? Because you've been pretty adamant about knowing the meaning behind their implementation, yet when faced with *proof* that you *don't* know, you continue to pretend that you're right. You haven't provided any backup to your claims - which would be a link to where an ANET employee states the purpose of the traps. I really hope you are trolling at this point...

 

You don't need to try to save face here, nobody really cares that much.

[RedShark.9548]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > @"Gorani.7205" said:

> > > > At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

> > >

> > > Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

> >

> > you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

> >

> > also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...

> > its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.

> > good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

> >

> > who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.

> > its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.

> > thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

>

> except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.

> sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.

> this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.

> when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.

> thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.

> so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

 

those builds didnt run sa even before lots of those reveals were implemented in the game, because sa is not needed since thief already has more than enough tools to get out of sticky situations, reveals just rly entered with pof, even in hot they were only a few and sa wasnt played aswell

 

saying that anti stealth traps are op because they disable a complete traitline is just kitten rly

they are only somewhat reliable in closed spaces, like keeps for example and that rightly so since a single thief shouldnt be able to troll like 5 player in their own base with just permastealthing all day long and jumping around with his mobility. in open field they are basically useless since the thief either doesnt even set a foot into it or just jumps away for the duration of thirty seconds and then coming back because those traps are limited due to supply cost. thief player defending something like that stealthplay are just saltbags complaing that there is a form of counterplay to push them out of the enemies keep. period

 

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > @"Gorani.7205" said:

> > > > At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

> > >

> > > Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

> >

> > You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

> >

> > So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

>

> No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts - *which is more often than not picked with DE*. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable *other profession's traitlines* for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

>

> Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

>

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

>

> LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?

> Shoo.

 

im saying that traps arent as big of an issue as you try to make them out. and yes defense for warrior is way more mandatory than thiefs sa traitline. give me one pvp/wvw based warrior meta build without defense i will give you 2 or more thief metabuilds that dont use sa lol.

 

and like i said especially your attunement comparison is a joke, showing that you have no clue what the kitten you are talking about. you compared apples with potatoes on that one

 

so take your "shoo" and put it somewhere else

[Heibi.4251]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

> > > > >

> > > > > well, they obviously didnt intend that effect for deadeye because they introduced shadow meld.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > They overlooked it, as usual.

> > >

> > > What was ANET's intention? Here's the release:

> > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/#new-features-5

> > >

> > > You wanna try again?

> > >

> > Nope. Says exactly what I have been saying.

> >

> > Traps have been added as a new purchasable consumable utility item. Two unique variants are available.

> > When placed, traps last for one hour.

> > Players may only have one of a given trap type deployed at a time.

> > Traps will disappear when a player leaves the map.

> > Traps are sold by the vendor for 15 badges and 525 karma; they will stack to 250 and are account-bound.

> > It takes a 4-second channel to place at feet.

> > Placing a trap uses very short-range ground targeting to assist in orientation.

> > Placed traps have a 600×90 rectangular trigger area; only enemies can trigger them.

> > Once triggered, traps affect up to 20 enemies within a range of 1200.

> > Traps cost 10 supply to place.

> >

> > Stealth Disruptor Trap

> > **

> > Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth.**

> >

> >

>

> And where in that does it state ANET's intention for creating the traps? Because you've been pretty adamant about knowing the meaning behind their implementation, yet when faced with *proof* that you *don't* know, you continue to pretend that you're right. You haven't provided any backup to your claims - which would be a link to where an ANET employee states the purpose of the traps. I really hope you are trolling at this point...

>

> You don't need to try to save face here, nobody really cares that much.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about. The proof YOU yourself provided for me was pretty clear and proved my point. "Introducing Traps in World vs. World: Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields and traps that remove supply from enemy players, but in the months ahead we’ll introduce even more ways to spread mayhem in the Mists!"

 

And the notes ANeT provided are pretty clear as to what it is supposed to do. So, verbatim, it "Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth." And nothing could over come that until they messed up with the DE's re-stealth. So thanks for looking that up and gloating once you proved my point for me.

 

Would be nice if a Dev would actually come on and say they broke the mechanic on purpose, because right now it makes the DE look more broken than it already is.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > @"Gorani.7205" said:

> > > > > At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

> > > >

> > > > Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

> > >

> > > you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

> > >

> > > also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...

> > > its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.

> > > good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

> > >

> > > who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.

> > > its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.

> > > thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

> >

> > except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.

> > sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.

> > this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.

> > when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.

> > thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.

> > so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

>

> those builds didnt run sa even before lots of those reveals were implemented in the game, because sa is not needed since thief already has more than enough tools to get out of sticky situations, reveals just rly entered with pof, even in hot they were only a few and sa wasnt played aswell

>

> saying that anti stealth traps are op because they disable a complete traitline is just kitten rly

> they are only somewhat reliable in closed spaces, like keeps for example and that rightly so since a single thief shouldnt be able to troll like 5 player in their own base with just permastealthing all day long and jumping around with his mobility. in open field they are basically useless since the thief either doesnt even set a foot into it or just jumps away for the duration of thirty seconds and then coming back because those traps are limited due to supply cost. thief player defending something like that stealthplay are just saltbags complaing that there is a form of counterplay to push them out of the enemies keep. period

>

ok seems there is some miss understanding here. i dont complain about the current form, because i can deal with it. i complain about people demanding that i shouldnt be able to remove it anymore. sure it is poorly implemented but for both sides. if i cant remove it, it is too strong of a counter and if i do remove it, it is useless. there is no place when dealing with this traps that offers a fun fight for anyone.

oh and there is counterplay to push enemy thieves out of your keep, i never had an issue ganking a thief at lord. strange tho today the first time an other deadeye tried to do it to me. he tried for all the fight with fire keep lord and died right after.

but trying to force them out of stealth is not needed and highly inefficient. cause as long as they remain in stealth they cant do anything. give them a reason to leave stealth and gank them saves a lot of time and nerves. you would need someone tho that can gank and many of those 'skilled' roamers would never do that. so its likely only bad players will try the correct strategy and they will fail if the deadeye at lord is not as bad.

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > @"Gorani.7205" said:

> > > > > At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

> > > >

> > > > Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

> > >

> > > You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

> > >

> > > So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

> >

> > No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts - *which is more often than not picked with DE*. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable *other profession's traitlines* for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

> >

> > Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

> >

> > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

> >

> > LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?

> > Shoo.

>

> im saying that traps arent as big of an issue as you try to make them out. and yes defense for warrior is way more mandatory than thiefs sa traitline. give me one pvp/wvw based warrior meta build without defense i will give you 2 or more thief metabuilds that dont use sa lol.

>

you dont understand. its not about not having other options. when i step into a trap my build wont suddenly change to something without SA. so yes removing defense line on a trap would have the same effect on a warrior running that line. the warrior is more likely running that line , than a thief running SA indeed. but still would be the same effect for the one stepping into it and having a traitline disabled.

 

your suggestion is : dont play with what i dont like, then you dont need to complain about the counter. that is pretty stupid.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > well, they obviously didnt intend that effect for deadeye because they introduced shadow meld.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > They overlooked it, as usual.

> > > >

> > > > What was ANET's intention? Here's the release:

> > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/#new-features-5

> > > >

> > > > You wanna try again?

> > > >

> > > Nope. Says exactly what I have been saying.

> > >

> > > Traps have been added as a new purchasable consumable utility item. Two unique variants are available.

> > > When placed, traps last for one hour.

> > > Players may only have one of a given trap type deployed at a time.

> > > Traps will disappear when a player leaves the map.

> > > Traps are sold by the vendor for 15 badges and 525 karma; they will stack to 250 and are account-bound.

> > > It takes a 4-second channel to place at feet.

> > > Placing a trap uses very short-range ground targeting to assist in orientation.

> > > Placed traps have a 600×90 rectangular trigger area; only enemies can trigger them.

> > > Once triggered, traps affect up to 20 enemies within a range of 1200.

> > > Traps cost 10 supply to place.

> > >

> > > Stealth Disruptor Trap

> > > **

> > > Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth.**

> > >

> > >

> >

> > And where in that does it state ANET's intention for creating the traps? Because you've been pretty adamant about knowing the meaning behind their implementation, yet when faced with *proof* that you *don't* know, you continue to pretend that you're right. You haven't provided any backup to your claims - which would be a link to where an ANET employee states the purpose of the traps. I really hope you are trolling at this point...

> >

> > You don't need to try to save face here, nobody really cares that much.

>

> I have no idea what you are talking about. The proof YOU yourself provided for me was pretty clear and proved my point. "Introducing Traps in World vs. World: Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields and traps that remove supply from enemy players, but in the months ahead we’ll introduce even more ways to spread mayhem in the Mists!"

>

> And the notes ANeT provided are pretty clear as to what it is supposed to do. So, verbatim, it "Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth." And nothing could over come that until they messed up with the DE's re-stealth. So thanks for looking that up and gloating once you proved my point for me.

>

> Would be nice if a Dev would actually come on and say they broke the mechanic on purpose, because right now it makes the DE look more broken than it already is.

 

so those traps do exactly that, remove stealth and apply reveal wich has the effect to prevent stealth.

shadowmeld on the other hand removes this revealed and applies stealth. why is that an oversight? i think its pretty obvious intended behaviour.

using the trap in a 1 vs 1 is not obvious behaviour considering the range, area and arming time aswell as it being undodgeable. but sure you may use it for that as long as i can remove it or kill you trying to set it up.

[anduriell.6280]

the thief should do damage based in the initiative left (the less initiative the less damage) and stealth should keep the thief in combat and drain one initiative per second.

 

if the thief ends up with 0 initiative they do 10% of the total damage and conditions last 10% of the total duration.

Then they can abuse stealth as much as they need to.

 

[MUDse.7623]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> the thief should do damage based in the initiative left (the less initiative the less damage) and stealth should keep the thief in combat and drain one initiative per second.

>

> if the thief ends up with 0 initiative they do 10% of the total damage and conditions last 10% of the total duration.

> Then they can abuse stealth as much as they need to.

>

 

and other classes lose 10% hp per second when they stealth? that would be awesome to kill my teammates! pls.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > the thief should do damage based in the initiative left (the less initiative the less damage) and stealth should keep the thief in combat and drain one initiative per second.

> >

> > if the thief ends up with 0 initiative they do 10% of the total damage and conditions last 10% of the total duration.

> > Then they can abuse stealth as much as they need to.

> >

>

> and other classes lose 10% hp per second when they stealth? that would be awesome to kill my teammates! pls.

 

I would genuinely kill my own commanders for fun if this was a thing. No joke, I'm sick of non thieves complaining about thieves for bad reasons so let's give them a good one lol

[Heibi.4251]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > well, they obviously didnt intend that effect for deadeye because they introduced shadow meld.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > They overlooked it, as usual.

> > > > >

> > > > > What was ANET's intention? Here's the release:

> > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/#new-features-5

> > > > >

> > > > > You wanna try again?

> > > > >

> > > > Nope. Says exactly what I have been saying.

> > > >

> > > > Traps have been added as a new purchasable consumable utility item. Two unique variants are available.

> > > > When placed, traps last for one hour.

> > > > Players may only have one of a given trap type deployed at a time.

> > > > Traps will disappear when a player leaves the map.

> > > > Traps are sold by the vendor for 15 badges and 525 karma; they will stack to 250 and are account-bound.

> > > > It takes a 4-second channel to place at feet.

> > > > Placing a trap uses very short-range ground targeting to assist in orientation.

> > > > Placed traps have a 600×90 rectangular trigger area; only enemies can trigger them.

> > > > Once triggered, traps affect up to 20 enemies within a range of 1200.

> > > > Traps cost 10 supply to place.

> > > >

> > > > Stealth Disruptor Trap

> > > > **

> > > > Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth.**

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > And where in that does it state ANET's intention for creating the traps? Because you've been pretty adamant about knowing the meaning behind their implementation, yet when faced with *proof* that you *don't* know, you continue to pretend that you're right. You haven't provided any backup to your claims - which would be a link to where an ANET employee states the purpose of the traps. I really hope you are trolling at this point...

> > >

> > > You don't need to try to save face here, nobody really cares that much.

> >

> > I have no idea what you are talking about. The proof YOU yourself provided for me was pretty clear and proved my point. "Introducing Traps in World vs. World: Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields and traps that remove supply from enemy players, but in the months ahead we’ll introduce even more ways to spread mayhem in the Mists!"

> >

> > And the notes ANeT provided are pretty clear as to what it is supposed to do. So, verbatim, it "Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth." And nothing could over come that until they messed up with the DE's re-stealth. So thanks for looking that up and gloating once you proved my point for me.

> >

> > Would be nice if a Dev would actually come on and say they broke the mechanic on purpose, because right now it makes the DE look more broken than it already is.

>

> so those traps do exactly that, remove stealth and apply reveal wich has the effect to prevent stealth.

> shadowmeld on the other hand removes this revealed and applies stealth. why is that an oversight? i think its pretty obvious intended behaviour.

> using the trap in a 1 vs 1 is not obvious behaviour considering the range, area and arming time aswell as it being undodgeable. but sure you may use it for that as long as i can remove it or kill you trying to set it up.

 

Like I said, it would be nice to get confirmation from a Dev that this was intentional, thereby making stealth traps(created specifically for anti-stealth in 2013) useless, or confirm that they overlooked the DE ability to re-stealth and are trying to find a way to fix it. If you read the intro to the traps they say "Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields..." . The fiendish part tells us that this is meant to be detrimental to characters who use lots of stealth. The note tells us the duration - 30 seconds - which is an eternity for a thief/mesmer in an enclosed place. Therefore, I'm leaning towards a broken mechanic that they forgot about and are trying to figure a way of how to fix it. It wasn't supposed to be a nice trap to begin with.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > well, they obviously didnt intend that effect for deadeye because they introduced shadow meld.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > They overlooked it, as usual.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What was ANET's intention? Here's the release:

> > > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/#new-features-5

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You wanna try again?

> > > > > >

> > > > > Nope. Says exactly what I have been saying.

> > > > >

> > > > > Traps have been added as a new purchasable consumable utility item. Two unique variants are available.

> > > > > When placed, traps last for one hour.

> > > > > Players may only have one of a given trap type deployed at a time.

> > > > > Traps will disappear when a player leaves the map.

> > > > > Traps are sold by the vendor for 15 badges and 525 karma; they will stack to 250 and are account-bound.

> > > > > It takes a 4-second channel to place at feet.

> > > > > Placing a trap uses very short-range ground targeting to assist in orientation.

> > > > > Placed traps have a 600×90 rectangular trigger area; only enemies can trigger them.

> > > > > Once triggered, traps affect up to 20 enemies within a range of 1200.

> > > > > Traps cost 10 supply to place.

> > > > >

> > > > > Stealth Disruptor Trap

> > > > > **

> > > > > Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth.**

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > And where in that does it state ANET's intention for creating the traps? Because you've been pretty adamant about knowing the meaning behind their implementation, yet when faced with *proof* that you *don't* know, you continue to pretend that you're right. You haven't provided any backup to your claims - which would be a link to where an ANET employee states the purpose of the traps. I really hope you are trolling at this point...

> > > >

> > > > You don't need to try to save face here, nobody really cares that much.

> > >

> > > I have no idea what you are talking about. The proof YOU yourself provided for me was pretty clear and proved my point. "Introducing Traps in World vs. World: Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields and traps that remove supply from enemy players, but in the months ahead we’ll introduce even more ways to spread mayhem in the Mists!"

> > >

> > > And the notes ANeT provided are pretty clear as to what it is supposed to do. So, verbatim, it "Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth." And nothing could over come that until they messed up with the DE's re-stealth. So thanks for looking that up and gloating once you proved my point for me.

> > >

> > > Would be nice if a Dev would actually come on and say they broke the mechanic on purpose, because right now it makes the DE look more broken than it already is.

> >

> > so those traps do exactly that, remove stealth and apply reveal wich has the effect to prevent stealth.

> > shadowmeld on the other hand removes this revealed and applies stealth. why is that an oversight? i think its pretty obvious intended behaviour.

> > using the trap in a 1 vs 1 is not obvious behaviour considering the range, area and arming time aswell as it being undodgeable. but sure you may use it for that as long as i can remove it or kill you trying to set it up.

>

> Like I said, it would be nice to get confirmation from a Dev that this was intentional, thereby making stealth traps(created specifically for anti-stealth in 2013) useless, or confirm that they overlooked the DE ability to re-stealth and are trying to find a way to fix it. If you read the intro to the traps they say "Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields..." . The fiendish part tells us that this is meant to be detrimental to characters who use lots of stealth. **The note tells us the duration - 30 seconds - which is an eternity for a thief/mesmer in an enclosed place. Therefore, I'm leaning towards a broken mechanic that they forgot about and are trying to figure a way of how to fix it**. It wasn't supposed to be a nice trap to begin with.

bolded part is your interpretation of the trap, again if they wanted to give you a tool to hunt mesmers/thieves inside your structure they could have done much better. everytime the debate comes up, people debated the intent behind the trap. because it was mainly used to hunt mesmers and thieves yet the design was never good for that purpose. so it is indeed questionable why anet kept the trap ingame in the current state. but i can assure you with the current reveal effect and anet desperately trying to get thieves to play deadeye with useless buffs to SA like in this patch, it is very unlikely they would make shadow meld inefficient against the trap. it would be much more likely they remove the trap. but that would cause alot of QQ. so the best option is to do nothing.

 

[Heibi.4251]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > well, they obviously didnt intend that effect for deadeye because they introduced shadow meld.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > They overlooked it, as usual.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What was ANET's intention? Here's the release:

> > > > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/#new-features-5

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You wanna try again?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > Nope. Says exactly what I have been saying.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Traps have been added as a new purchasable consumable utility item. Two unique variants are available.

> > > > > > When placed, traps last for one hour.

> > > > > > Players may only have one of a given trap type deployed at a time.

> > > > > > Traps will disappear when a player leaves the map.

> > > > > > Traps are sold by the vendor for 15 badges and 525 karma; they will stack to 250 and are account-bound.

> > > > > > It takes a 4-second channel to place at feet.

> > > > > > Placing a trap uses very short-range ground targeting to assist in orientation.

> > > > > > Placed traps have a 600×90 rectangular trigger area; only enemies can trigger them.

> > > > > > Once triggered, traps affect up to 20 enemies within a range of 1200.

> > > > > > Traps cost 10 supply to place.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Stealth Disruptor Trap

> > > > > > **

> > > > > > Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth.**

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > And where in that does it state ANET's intention for creating the traps? Because you've been pretty adamant about knowing the meaning behind their implementation, yet when faced with *proof* that you *don't* know, you continue to pretend that you're right. You haven't provided any backup to your claims - which would be a link to where an ANET employee states the purpose of the traps. I really hope you are trolling at this point...

> > > > >

> > > > > You don't need to try to save face here, nobody really cares that much.

> > > >

> > > > I have no idea what you are talking about. The proof YOU yourself provided for me was pretty clear and proved my point. "Introducing Traps in World vs. World: Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields and traps that remove supply from enemy players, but in the months ahead we’ll introduce even more ways to spread mayhem in the Mists!"

> > > >

> > > > And the notes ANeT provided are pretty clear as to what it is supposed to do. So, verbatim, it "Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth." And nothing could over come that until they messed up with the DE's re-stealth. So thanks for looking that up and gloating once you proved my point for me.

> > > >

> > > > Would be nice if a Dev would actually come on and say they broke the mechanic on purpose, because right now it makes the DE look more broken than it already is.

> > >

> > > so those traps do exactly that, remove stealth and apply reveal wich has the effect to prevent stealth.

> > > shadowmeld on the other hand removes this revealed and applies stealth. why is that an oversight? i think its pretty obvious intended behaviour.

> > > using the trap in a 1 vs 1 is not obvious behaviour considering the range, area and arming time aswell as it being undodgeable. but sure you may use it for that as long as i can remove it or kill you trying to set it up.

> >

> > Like I said, it would be nice to get confirmation from a Dev that this was intentional, thereby making stealth traps(created specifically for anti-stealth in 2013) useless, or confirm that they overlooked the DE ability to re-stealth and are trying to find a way to fix it. If you read the intro to the traps they say "Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields..." . The fiendish part tells us that this is meant to be detrimental to characters who use lots of stealth. **The note tells us the duration - 30 seconds - which is an eternity for a thief/mesmer in an enclosed place. Therefore, I'm leaning towards a broken mechanic that they forgot about and are trying to figure a way of how to fix it**. It wasn't supposed to be a nice trap to begin with.

> bolded part is your interpretation of the trap, again if they wanted to give you a tool to hunt mesmers/thieves inside your structure they could have done much better. everytime the debate comes up, people debated the intent behind the trap. because it was mainly used to hunt mesmers and thieves yet the design was never good for that purpose. so it is indeed questionable why anet kept the trap ingame in the current state. but i can assure you with the current reveal effect and anet desperately trying to get thieves to play deadeye with useless buffs to SA like in this patch, it is very unlikely they would make shadow meld inefficient against the trap. it would be much more likely they remove the trap. but that would cause alot of QQ. so the best option is to do nothing.

>

 

True, they should make a decision one way or another. Or make an official statement regarding it. Because currently the trap isn't working the way it is written. I know the reason at the time that they added it was because thieves/mesmers had so much stealth that people in WvW couldn't do effective clearing of objectives. They complained and ANeT added the trap - I remember it. We were quite happy with it. But they added DE to the mix, which had tons of problems and limitations that they had to fix to make it desirable, but may have overlooked a mechanic they made the traps for. It's as simple as that.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > well, they obviously didnt intend that effect for deadeye because they introduced shadow meld.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > They overlooked it, as usual.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What was ANET's intention? Here's the release:

> > > > > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/#new-features-5

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You wanna try again?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nope. Says exactly what I have been saying.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Traps have been added as a new purchasable consumable utility item. Two unique variants are available.

> > > > > > > When placed, traps last for one hour.

> > > > > > > Players may only have one of a given trap type deployed at a time.

> > > > > > > Traps will disappear when a player leaves the map.

> > > > > > > Traps are sold by the vendor for 15 badges and 525 karma; they will stack to 250 and are account-bound.

> > > > > > > It takes a 4-second channel to place at feet.

> > > > > > > Placing a trap uses very short-range ground targeting to assist in orientation.

> > > > > > > Placed traps have a 600×90 rectangular trigger area; only enemies can trigger them.

> > > > > > > Once triggered, traps affect up to 20 enemies within a range of 1200.

> > > > > > > Traps cost 10 supply to place.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Stealth Disruptor Trap

> > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth.**

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And where in that does it state ANET's intention for creating the traps? Because you've been pretty adamant about knowing the meaning behind their implementation, yet when faced with *proof* that you *don't* know, you continue to pretend that you're right. You haven't provided any backup to your claims - which would be a link to where an ANET employee states the purpose of the traps. I really hope you are trolling at this point...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You don't need to try to save face here, nobody really cares that much.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have no idea what you are talking about. The proof YOU yourself provided for me was pretty clear and proved my point. "Introducing Traps in World vs. World: Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields and traps that remove supply from enemy players, but in the months ahead we’ll introduce even more ways to spread mayhem in the Mists!"

> > > > >

> > > > > And the notes ANeT provided are pretty clear as to what it is supposed to do. So, verbatim, it "Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth." And nothing could over come that until they messed up with the DE's re-stealth. So thanks for looking that up and gloating once you proved my point for me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Would be nice if a Dev would actually come on and say they broke the mechanic on purpose, because right now it makes the DE look more broken than it already is.

> > > >

> > > > so those traps do exactly that, remove stealth and apply reveal wich has the effect to prevent stealth.

> > > > shadowmeld on the other hand removes this revealed and applies stealth. why is that an oversight? i think its pretty obvious intended behaviour.

> > > > using the trap in a 1 vs 1 is not obvious behaviour considering the range, area and arming time aswell as it being undodgeable. but sure you may use it for that as long as i can remove it or kill you trying to set it up.

> > >

> > > Like I said, it would be nice to get confirmation from a Dev that this was intentional, thereby making stealth traps(created specifically for anti-stealth in 2013) useless, or confirm that they overlooked the DE ability to re-stealth and are trying to find a way to fix it. If you read the intro to the traps they say "Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields..." . The fiendish part tells us that this is meant to be detrimental to characters who use lots of stealth. **The note tells us the duration - 30 seconds - which is an eternity for a thief/mesmer in an enclosed place. Therefore, I'm leaning towards a broken mechanic that they forgot about and are trying to figure a way of how to fix it**. It wasn't supposed to be a nice trap to begin with.

> > bolded part is your interpretation of the trap, again if they wanted to give you a tool to hunt mesmers/thieves inside your structure they could have done much better. everytime the debate comes up, people debated the intent behind the trap. because it was mainly used to hunt mesmers and thieves yet the design was never good for that purpose. so it is indeed questionable why anet kept the trap ingame in the current state. but i can assure you with the current reveal effect and anet desperately trying to get thieves to play deadeye with useless buffs to SA like in this patch, it is very unlikely they would make shadow meld inefficient against the trap. it would be much more likely they remove the trap. but that would cause alot of QQ. so the best option is to do nothing.

> >

>

> True, they should make a decision one way or another. Or make an official statement regarding it. Because currently the trap isn't working the way it is written. **I know the reason at the time that they added it was because thieves/mesmers had so much stealth that people in WvW couldn't do effective clearing of objectives. They complained and ANeT added the trap - I remember it. We were quite happy with it**. But they added DE to the mix, which had tons of problems and limitations that they had to fix to make it desirable, but may have overlooked a mechanic they made the traps for. It's as simple as that.

would you please stop making assumptions? i played back than aswell and there were far less mesmer/thieves that did hide. what they did against that was marking in keeps, not those traps. they would have horribly failed in designing them if that was the intended use of the traps.

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > well, they obviously didnt intend that effect for deadeye because they introduced shadow meld.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > They overlooked it, as usual.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What was ANET's intention? Here's the release:

> > > > > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/#new-features-5

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You wanna try again?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nope. Says exactly what I have been saying.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Traps have been added as a new purchasable consumable utility item. Two unique variants are available.

> > > > > > > When placed, traps last for one hour.

> > > > > > > Players may only have one of a given trap type deployed at a time.

> > > > > > > Traps will disappear when a player leaves the map.

> > > > > > > Traps are sold by the vendor for 15 badges and 525 karma; they will stack to 250 and are account-bound.

> > > > > > > It takes a 4-second channel to place at feet.

> > > > > > > Placing a trap uses very short-range ground targeting to assist in orientation.

> > > > > > > Placed traps have a 600×90 rectangular trigger area; only enemies can trigger them.

> > > > > > > Once triggered, traps affect up to 20 enemies within a range of 1200.

> > > > > > > Traps cost 10 supply to place.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Stealth Disruptor Trap

> > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth.**

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And where in that does it state ANET's intention for creating the traps? Because you've been pretty adamant about knowing the meaning behind their implementation, yet when faced with *proof* that you *don't* know, you continue to pretend that you're right. You haven't provided any backup to your claims - which would be a link to where an ANET employee states the purpose of the traps. I really hope you are trolling at this point...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You don't need to try to save face here, nobody really cares that much.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have no idea what you are talking about. The proof YOU yourself provided for me was pretty clear and proved my point. "Introducing Traps in World vs. World: Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields and traps that remove supply from enemy players, but in the months ahead we’ll introduce even more ways to spread mayhem in the Mists!"

> > > > >

> > > > > And the notes ANeT provided are pretty clear as to what it is supposed to do. So, verbatim, it "Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth." And nothing could over come that until they messed up with the DE's re-stealth. So thanks for looking that up and gloating once you proved my point for me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Would be nice if a Dev would actually come on and say they broke the mechanic on purpose, because right now it makes the DE look more broken than it already is.

> > > >

> > > > so those traps do exactly that, remove stealth and apply reveal wich has the effect to prevent stealth.

> > > > shadowmeld on the other hand removes this revealed and applies stealth. why is that an oversight? i think its pretty obvious intended behaviour.

> > > > using the trap in a 1 vs 1 is not obvious behaviour considering the range, area and arming time aswell as it being undodgeable. but sure you may use it for that as long as i can remove it or kill you trying to set it up.

> > >

> > > Like I said, it would be nice to get confirmation from a Dev that this was intentional, thereby making stealth traps(created specifically for anti-stealth in 2013) useless, or confirm that they overlooked the DE ability to re-stealth and are trying to find a way to fix it. If you read the intro to the traps they say "Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields..." . The fiendish part tells us that this is meant to be detrimental to characters who use lots of stealth. **The note tells us the duration - 30 seconds - which is an eternity for a thief/mesmer in an enclosed place. Therefore, I'm leaning towards a broken mechanic that they forgot about and are trying to figure a way of how to fix it**. It wasn't supposed to be a nice trap to begin with.

> > bolded part is your interpretation of the trap, again if they wanted to give you a tool to hunt mesmers/thieves inside your structure they could have done much better. everytime the debate comes up, people debated the intent behind the trap. because it was mainly used to hunt mesmers and thieves yet the design was never good for that purpose. so it is indeed questionable why anet kept the trap ingame in the current state. but i can assure you with the current reveal effect and anet desperately trying to get thieves to play deadeye with useless buffs to SA like in this patch, it is very unlikely they would make shadow meld inefficient against the trap. it would be much more likely they remove the trap. but that would cause alot of QQ. so the best option is to do nothing.

> >

>

> True, they should make a decision one way or another. Or make an official statement regarding it. Because currently the trap isn't working the way it is written. I know the reason at the time that they added it was because thieves/mesmers had so much stealth that people in WvW couldn't do effective clearing of objectives. They complained and ANeT added the trap - I remember it. We were quite happy with it. But they added DE to the mix, which had tons of problems and limitations that they had to fix to make it desirable, but may have overlooked a mechanic they made the traps for. It's as simple as that.

 

shadow meld was the same since the release of deadeye. no other class can remove revealed.

 

the devs did not overlook this skill. it's an elite skill with an obvious intention.

 

also shadow meld seems best suited in competitive environments as it really has no place in PVE

 

this is evidence enough that deadeyes were meant to overcome revealed.

 

it's very clear. i don't understand why you are arguing it anymore.

 

the traps provide a reveal. shadowmeld stealths and **removes revealed**.

 

one more time:

 

the traps put revealed on stealthed foes, but shadowmeld removes revealed.

 

no other class can remove revealed.

 

super duper intended effect and outcome.

 

guess it's time to ask for a new game mechanic, or to delete deadeye from the game.

[Heibi.4251]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > well, they obviously didnt intend that effect for deadeye because they introduced shadow meld.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > They overlooked it, as usual.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > What was ANET's intention? Here's the release:

> > > > > > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/#new-features-5

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You wanna try again?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nope. Says exactly what I have been saying.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Traps have been added as a new purchasable consumable utility item. Two unique variants are available.

> > > > > > > > When placed, traps last for one hour.

> > > > > > > > Players may only have one of a given trap type deployed at a time.

> > > > > > > > Traps will disappear when a player leaves the map.

> > > > > > > > Traps are sold by the vendor for 15 badges and 525 karma; they will stack to 250 and are account-bound.

> > > > > > > > It takes a 4-second channel to place at feet.

> > > > > > > > Placing a trap uses very short-range ground targeting to assist in orientation.

> > > > > > > > Placed traps have a 600×90 rectangular trigger area; only enemies can trigger them.

> > > > > > > > Once triggered, traps affect up to 20 enemies within a range of 1200.

> > > > > > > > Traps cost 10 supply to place.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Stealth Disruptor Trap

> > > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > > Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth.**

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And where in that does it state ANET's intention for creating the traps? Because you've been pretty adamant about knowing the meaning behind their implementation, yet when faced with *proof* that you *don't* know, you continue to pretend that you're right. You haven't provided any backup to your claims - which would be a link to where an ANET employee states the purpose of the traps. I really hope you are trolling at this point...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You don't need to try to save face here, nobody really cares that much.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have no idea what you are talking about. The proof YOU yourself provided for me was pretty clear and proved my point. "Introducing Traps in World vs. World: Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields and traps that remove supply from enemy players, but in the months ahead we’ll introduce even more ways to spread mayhem in the Mists!"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And the notes ANeT provided are pretty clear as to what it is supposed to do. So, verbatim, it "Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth." And nothing could over come that until they messed up with the DE's re-stealth. So thanks for looking that up and gloating once you proved my point for me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Would be nice if a Dev would actually come on and say they broke the mechanic on purpose, because right now it makes the DE look more broken than it already is.

> > > > >

> > > > > so those traps do exactly that, remove stealth and apply reveal wich has the effect to prevent stealth.

> > > > > shadowmeld on the other hand removes this revealed and applies stealth. why is that an oversight? i think its pretty obvious intended behaviour.

> > > > > using the trap in a 1 vs 1 is not obvious behaviour considering the range, area and arming time aswell as it being undodgeable. but sure you may use it for that as long as i can remove it or kill you trying to set it up.

> > > >

> > > > Like I said, it would be nice to get confirmation from a Dev that this was intentional, thereby making stealth traps(created specifically for anti-stealth in 2013) useless, or confirm that they overlooked the DE ability to re-stealth and are trying to find a way to fix it. If you read the intro to the traps they say "Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields..." . The fiendish part tells us that this is meant to be detrimental to characters who use lots of stealth. **The note tells us the duration - 30 seconds - which is an eternity for a thief/mesmer in an enclosed place. Therefore, I'm leaning towards a broken mechanic that they forgot about and are trying to figure a way of how to fix it**. It wasn't supposed to be a nice trap to begin with.

> > > bolded part is your interpretation of the trap, again if they wanted to give you a tool to hunt mesmers/thieves inside your structure they could have done much better. everytime the debate comes up, people debated the intent behind the trap. because it was mainly used to hunt mesmers and thieves yet the design was never good for that purpose. so it is indeed questionable why anet kept the trap ingame in the current state. but i can assure you with the current reveal effect and anet desperately trying to get thieves to play deadeye with useless buffs to SA like in this patch, it is very unlikely they would make shadow meld inefficient against the trap. it would be much more likely they remove the trap. but that would cause alot of QQ. so the best option is to do nothing.

> > >

> >

> > True, they should make a decision one way or another. Or make an official statement regarding it. Because currently the trap isn't working the way it is written. I know the reason at the time that they added it was because thieves/mesmers had so much stealth that people in WvW couldn't do effective clearing of objectives. They complained and ANeT added the trap - I remember it. We were quite happy with it. But they added DE to the mix, which had tons of problems and limitations that they had to fix to make it desirable, but may have overlooked a mechanic they made the traps for. It's as simple as that.

>

> shadow meld was the same since the release of deadeye. no other class can remove revealed.

>

> the devs did not overlook this skill. it's an elite skill with an obvious intention.

>

> also shadow meld seems best suited in competitive environments as it really has no place in PVE

>

> this is evidence enough that deadeyes were meant to overcome revealed.

>

> it's very clear. i don't understand why you are arguing it anymore.

>

> the traps provide a reveal. shadowmeld stealths and **removes revealed**.

>

> one more time:

>

> the traps put revealed on stealthed foes, but shadowmeld removes revealed.

>

> no other class can remove revealed.

>

> super duper intended effect and outcome.

>

> guess it's time to ask for a new game mechanic, or to delete deadeye from the game.

 

I'm not arguing, I'm stating that ANeT has a broken mechanic that they created and have not made any statements about. For you to assume that just because DE has shadow meld that overcomes reveal is the same as what you are accusing me of doing. And no other class needs to have "remove revealed" and never did. The trap was intended to make stealthed targets be exposed for 30 seconds, that much is plain and true. When ANeT introduced the DE they may have forgotten the Stealth Trap's effect. Wouldn't be the first time they forgot about a mechanic they created. Players with reveal abilities only have a short effect of 6 or so seconds, far short of what the trap is meant for. I'm simply asking for ANeT to come forward and state whether they forgot about this mechanic or that they created another perma-stealth class on purpose. If the DE is truly meant to overcome the mechanic then they may as well delete the Stealth Disruptor Trap. If not they need to fix the DE yet again and put it in line with the other stealthy classes.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We don't really know what Anet intended though. When it was introduced I assumed it was to help find mesmers hiding keeps. Now I find it a valuable tool to stop zergs using a mes to portal themselves into SMC cloaking waters to stealth bomb. I don't recall Anet ever saying what situations they had in mind when it was introduced.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I was there when they introduced it. It was intended to stop stealth from being permanent in keeps and structures. They said so.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > well, they obviously didnt intend that effect for deadeye because they introduced shadow meld.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > They overlooked it, as usual.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > What was ANET's intention? Here's the release:

> > > > > > > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/#new-features-5

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You wanna try again?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nope. Says exactly what I have been saying.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Traps have been added as a new purchasable consumable utility item. Two unique variants are available.

> > > > > > > > > When placed, traps last for one hour.

> > > > > > > > > Players may only have one of a given trap type deployed at a time.

> > > > > > > > > Traps will disappear when a player leaves the map.

> > > > > > > > > Traps are sold by the vendor for 15 badges and 525 karma; they will stack to 250 and are account-bound.

> > > > > > > > > It takes a 4-second channel to place at feet.

> > > > > > > > > Placing a trap uses very short-range ground targeting to assist in orientation.

> > > > > > > > > Placed traps have a 600×90 rectangular trigger area; only enemies can trigger them.

> > > > > > > > > Once triggered, traps affect up to 20 enemies within a range of 1200.

> > > > > > > > > Traps cost 10 supply to place.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Stealth Disruptor Trap

> > > > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > > > Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth.**

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And where in that does it state ANET's intention for creating the traps? Because you've been pretty adamant about knowing the meaning behind their implementation, yet when faced with *proof* that you *don't* know, you continue to pretend that you're right. You haven't provided any backup to your claims - which would be a link to where an ANET employee states the purpose of the traps. I really hope you are trolling at this point...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You don't need to try to save face here, nobody really cares that much.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have no idea what you are talking about. The proof YOU yourself provided for me was pretty clear and proved my point. "Introducing Traps in World vs. World: Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields and traps that remove supply from enemy players, but in the months ahead we’ll introduce even more ways to spread mayhem in the Mists!"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And the notes ANeT provided are pretty clear as to what it is supposed to do. So, verbatim, it "Removes stealth from enemies and reveals them for 30 seconds, preventing stealth." And nothing could over come that until they messed up with the DE's re-stealth. So thanks for looking that up and gloating once you proved my point for me.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Would be nice if a Dev would actually come on and say they broke the mechanic on purpose, because right now it makes the DE look more broken than it already is.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > so those traps do exactly that, remove stealth and apply reveal wich has the effect to prevent stealth.

> > > > > > shadowmeld on the other hand removes this revealed and applies stealth. why is that an oversight? i think its pretty obvious intended behaviour.

> > > > > > using the trap in a 1 vs 1 is not obvious behaviour considering the range, area and arming time aswell as it being undodgeable. but sure you may use it for that as long as i can remove it or kill you trying to set it up.

> > > > >

> > > > > Like I said, it would be nice to get confirmation from a Dev that this was intentional, thereby making stealth traps(created specifically for anti-stealth in 2013) useless, or confirm that they overlooked the DE ability to re-stealth and are trying to find a way to fix it. If you read the intro to the traps they say "Traps are fiendish items that can be purchased from the new Traps and Tricks Outfitters on each WvW map. We’re starting with anti-stealth fields..." . The fiendish part tells us that this is meant to be detrimental to characters who use lots of stealth. **The note tells us the duration - 30 seconds - which is an eternity for a thief/mesmer in an enclosed place. Therefore, I'm leaning towards a broken mechanic that they forgot about and are trying to figure a way of how to fix it**. It wasn't supposed to be a nice trap to begin with.

> > > > bolded part is your interpretation of the trap, again if they wanted to give you a tool to hunt mesmers/thieves inside your structure they could have done much better. everytime the debate comes up, people debated the intent behind the trap. because it was mainly used to hunt mesmers and thieves yet the design was never good for that purpose. so it is indeed questionable why anet kept the trap ingame in the current state. but i can assure you with the current reveal effect and anet desperately trying to get thieves to play deadeye with useless buffs to SA like in this patch, it is very unlikely they would make shadow meld inefficient against the trap. it would be much more likely they remove the trap. but that would cause alot of QQ. so the best option is to do nothing.

> > > >

> > >

> > > True, they should make a decision one way or another. Or make an official statement regarding it. Because currently the trap isn't working the way it is written. I know the reason at the time that they added it was because thieves/mesmers had so much stealth that people in WvW couldn't do effective clearing of objectives. They complained and ANeT added the trap - I remember it. We were quite happy with it. But they added DE to the mix, which had tons of problems and limitations that they had to fix to make it desirable, but may have overlooked a mechanic they made the traps for. It's as simple as that.

> >

> > shadow meld was the same since the release of deadeye. no other class can remove revealed.

> >

> > the devs did not overlook this skill. it's an elite skill with an obvious intention.

> >

> > also shadow meld seems best suited in competitive environments as it really has no place in PVE

> >

> > this is evidence enough that deadeyes were meant to overcome revealed.

> >

> > it's very clear. i don't understand why you are arguing it anymore.

> >

> > the traps provide a reveal. shadowmeld stealths and **removes revealed**.

> >

> > one more time:

> >

> > the traps put revealed on stealthed foes, but shadowmeld removes revealed.

> >

> > no other class can remove revealed.

> >

> > super duper intended effect and outcome.

> >

> > guess it's time to ask for a new game mechanic, or to delete deadeye from the game.

>

> I'm not arguing, I'm stating that ANeT has a broken mechanic that they created and have not made any statements about. For you to assume that just because DE has shadow meld that overcomes reveal is the same as what you are accusing me of doing. And no other class needs to have "remove revealed" and never did. The trap was intended to make stealthed targets be exposed for 30 seconds, that much is plain and true. When ANeT introduced the DE they may have forgotten the Stealth Trap's effect. Wouldn't be the first time they forgot about a mechanic they created. Players with reveal abilities only have a short effect of 6 or so seconds, far short of what the trap is meant for. I'm simply asking for ANeT to come forward and state whether they forgot about this mechanic or that they created another perma-stealth class on purpose. If the DE is truly meant to overcome the mechanic then they may as well delete the Stealth Disruptor Trap. If not they need to fix the DE yet again and put it in line with the other stealthy classes.

 

Here are the old patch notes.

 

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-May-14-2013

 

it says it reveals the foe for 30 seconds after trigger the trap. what it doesnt say is that it must stay on the full 30 seconds no matter what.

 

now, what can a deadeye do with their elite skill shadowmeld? answer: remove revealed.

 

case closed.

 

I'm not doing the same thing as you. I am laying out the facts. There is not an alternative truth here.

 

 

 

 

Bring deadeye in line how?

 

You want shadow meld to not have reveal removal?

You want a new mechanic that prevents stealth?

 

 

[RedShark.9548]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > @"Gorani.7205" said:

> > > > > > At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

> > > > >

> > > > > Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

> > > >

> > > > you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

> > > >

> > > > also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...

> > > > its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.

> > > > good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

> > > >

> > > > who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.

> > > > its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.

> > > > thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

> > >

> > > except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.

> > > sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.

> > > this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.

> > > when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.

> > > thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.

> > > so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

> >

> > those builds didnt run sa even before lots of those reveals were implemented in the game, because sa is not needed since thief already has more than enough tools to get out of sticky situations, reveals just rly entered with pof, even in hot they were only a few and sa wasnt played aswell

> >

> > saying that anti stealth traps are op because they disable a complete traitline is just kitten rly

> > they are only somewhat reliable in closed spaces, like keeps for example and that rightly so since a single thief shouldnt be able to troll like 5 player in their own base with just permastealthing all day long and jumping around with his mobility. in open field they are basically useless since the thief either doesnt even set a foot into it or just jumps away for the duration of thirty seconds and then coming back because those traps are limited due to supply cost. thief player defending something like that stealthplay are just saltbags complaing that there is a form of counterplay to push them out of the enemies keep. period

> >

> ok seems there is some miss understanding here. i dont complain about the current form, because i can deal with it. i complain about people demanding that i shouldnt be able to remove it anymore. sure it is poorly implemented but for both sides. if i cant remove it, it is too strong of a counter and if i do remove it, it is useless. there is no place when dealing with this traps that offers a fun fight for anyone.

> oh and there is counterplay to push enemy thieves out of your keep, i never had an issue ganking a thief at lord. strange tho today the first time an other deadeye tried to do it to me. he tried for all the fight with fire keep lord and died right after.

> but trying to force them out of stealth is not needed and highly inefficient. cause as long as they remain in stealth they cant do anything. give them a reason to leave stealth and gank them saves a lot of time and nerves. you would need someone tho that can gank and many of those 'skilled' roamers would never do that. so its likely only bad players will try the correct strategy and they will fail if the deadeye at lord is not as bad.

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > @"Heibi.4251" said:

> > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > @"Gorani.7205" said:

> > > > > > At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

> > > > >

> > > > > Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

> > > >

> > > > You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

> > > >

> > > > So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

> > >

> > > No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts - *which is more often than not picked with DE*. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable *other profession's traitlines* for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

> > >

> > > Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

> > >

> > > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

> > >

> > > LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?

> > > Shoo.

> >

> > im saying that traps arent as big of an issue as you try to make them out. and yes defense for warrior is way more mandatory than thiefs sa traitline. give me one pvp/wvw based warrior meta build without defense i will give you 2 or more thief metabuilds that dont use sa lol.

> >

> you dont understand. its not about not having other options. when i step into a trap my build wont suddenly change to something without SA. so yes removing defense line on a trap would have the same effect on a warrior running that line. the warrior is more likely running that line , than a thief running SA indeed. but still would be the same effect for the one stepping into it and having a traitline disabled.

>

> your suggestion is : dont play with what i dont like, then you dont need to complain about the counter. that is pretty stupid.

 

its not about how easy to gank they are when not in stealth or that they cant do stuff while in stealth. its the fact that as long as there is a thief in my keep he will remain a threat. potentially pulling several ppl into the keep to secure it as a single guy who just stays in stealth, he doesnt even have to be actively do something serious as long as he pulls some numbers to waste their time in their own keep while his server is attacking somewhere else. no one else can do this, even mesmer dont have the stealth uptime to rly pull that off. you send a few ppl after him and in a minute he will be dead when they see him.

no one else is able to do that, and if your precious little sa traitline is working so heavily with stealth its seriously not a big of a deal imo, because you activaly chose to rely that heavily on an already super strong mechanic that is good even without sa.

 

id happily trade defense on warrior if there was a traitline equal to that one, but there dont rly is much of a choice. you as thief have the choice. and i hope you agree atleast that the attunement comparison was total bs