Broken Deadeye

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > Guardian GS pull.

> > DH spear pull.

> > Dragon's Maw.

> > All Aura effects (burning, stun, condis).

> > Retaliation.

> > All line of warding style skills (ring of warding, fear wall, static, etc).

> >

> > All of these were here before Mark. Which you can evade the side effects of anyway (mug, condis, boonsteal, etc). The elite's mechanic of malice buildup, however, is the only thing you can't avoid. Why is this an issue?

>

> Not sure what your argument is on the tethers. The pull bypasses dodge, but that makes sense. Not counting moving out of range, there is also abundant counterplay: stability, invulnerability, dodge the hit that tethers in the first place.

>

> The wards are nearly inconsequential. The only class they pose a threat to is thief due to a lack of stability options and the only two wards worth giving a kitten about are static field and ring of warding (you can shadowstep/steal/port through ALL line wards with absolutely no effect on you). Even with the ring-shaped ward skills, you can still teleport across the ward, you just suffer the CC from it very briefly.

>

> The mark on the other hand is completely unavoidable unless you're out of range. May as well make malice-buildup something baseline to deadeye since you can't deprive them of it. If this change was made, I don't think I'd necessarily complain, but it still stands that DE contributes heavily to the arms race through shadow meld.

 

i am a little confused.

 

the part of the mark that is unavoidable is that the deadeye comits to build up his malice towards one single target. that the deadeye has to comit to a single target is a profession limitation, the visual indicator of this commitment is an additonal bonus for the target so it is aware of it.

 

if you want to make malice buildup baseline against any target you hit, that would be a major buff and you would remove this weakness of the deadeye. yet i think it is also balanced around this commitment to 1 single target in spvp and WvW.

 

also if you teleport out of a static field you get stunned, if you teleport out of ring you get a short knockdown like after a knockback.

[Ferus.3165]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> I kill many deadeyes every day

 

that's because most deadeyes are trash bandwagon players. If that would be an argument no class in this game would ever be op.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> Remove stealth and thieves would just figure something else out and would likely be more aggravating for everyone else. Removing stealth would probably just hurt other classes more as consequence. Dodge for stealth is stupid but original deadeye and current deadeye for the most part are fine. They're not going to remove stealth or deadeye because some bad players who don't know how to dodge cry on the forum.

 

How do you dodge something you can't see?? I love that response. Just dodge the stealthed thief. Okay. If I knew where and when he was gonna attack, I'd do that.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > Remove stealth and thieves would just figure something else out and would likely be more aggravating for everyone else. Removing stealth would probably just hurt other classes more as consequence. Dodge for stealth is stupid but original deadeye and current deadeye for the most part are fine. They're not going to remove stealth or deadeye because some bad players who don't know how to dodge cry on the forum.

>

> How do you dodge something you can't see?? I love that response. Just dodge the stealthed thief. Okay. If I knew where and when he was gonna attack, I'd do that.

 

You should be able to dodge dj though unless they combo with knock down, you can even see the projectile from a short bow or pistol. Melee stealth attacks on the other hand are a different matter.

[DemonSeed.3528]

Yeah, I usually dodge around 60% of the duration of the sound unless they have quickness on, in which case I only get hit if I am caught off guard/lag/badly timed. The smarter de's will usually get higher hit rates if they use spotter's shot or binding shadow followed by a dj. Need good timing though to queue the shots. It's the backstab that's going to get you most of the time, unless the de is impatient and spams wildly. I think almost 99% of de's I come across never even attempt backstab though, they are all about spamming 2/3 and dj. It's kind of hilarious going head to head with a de and it's just a fight of who comes out of stealth and loads the dj first. I'm at the point now that most of the time I won't get hit by them unless I was truly unprepared and fighting someone else. I don't look for the laser anymore, I just listen to that sound and react immediately. I think most of them are quite predictable, it's the fact that it plays on peoples minds so much that breaks them down. Mark someone and watch them go wild hehe.

[JakeG.9620]

Me and two guildies were catapulting a tower, when one of them suddenly downed without even an enemy in sight. Got stomped like that too. I was like "huh, that's weird." but then without warning I got downed as well. That's when the deadeye came out of stealth :p They need a fix.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"JakeG.9620" said:

> Me and two guildies were catapulting a tower, when one of them suddenly downed without even an enemy in sight. Got stomped like that too. I was like "huh, that's weird." but then without warning I got downed as well. That's when the deadeye came out of stealth :p They need a fix.

 

I don't believe this at all "with out warning" ??? You both must of been 11k 0 armour.

[foxof.8752]

Need a quick response and fix? someone should try solo a raid boss again with the DE.

[NuhDah.9812]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"JakeG.9620" said:

> > Me and two guildies were catapulting a tower, when one of them suddenly downed without even an enemy in sight. Got stomped like that too. I was like "huh, that's weird." but then without warning I got downed as well. That's when the deadeye came out of stealth :p They need a fix.

>

> I don't believe this at all "with out warning" ??? You both must of been 11k 0 armour.

 

Actually I've encountered one of those 100% stealth uptime DE's yesterday, he was hitting around 16k-17k with both dj and malicious bs on me as a thief with 15k-16k hp, doing this without malice build up. Enough jut down anything glassy and vannish back into stealth in no time. He was low rank so probably someone experienced (fast, aware, probably switching utility skill and traits on the fly to keep the 100% stealth uptime and also be deadly at a moment's notice) with too much free time who switched to a free account to troll around. I just tried to sniff him out so I just came back several times knowing I could die in an instant in an attempt to figure him out. Couldn't do anithing, he was also probably using quickness with dj so even that was almost imposible to dodge if it came out from stealth. Also I saw him using smoke screen, and I'm pretty sure he was using assassins signet before he engaged.

 

If you can use DE in this manner is kind of cancer, like the late ghost condi thief in a way, with the advantage that this one if not affected by revealed and it's probably a bit harder to pull of.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"JakeG.9620" said:

> > > Me and two guildies were catapulting a tower, when one of them suddenly downed without even an enemy in sight. Got stomped like that too. I was like "huh, that's weird." but then without warning I got downed as well. That's when the deadeye came out of stealth :p They need a fix.

> >

> > I don't believe this at all "with out warning" ??? You both must of been 11k 0 armour.

>

> Actually I've encountered one of those 100% stealth uptime DE's yesterday, he was hitting around 16k-17k with both dj and malicious bs on me as a thief with 15k-16k hp, doing this without malice build up. Enough jut down anything glassy and vannish back into stealth in no time. He was low rank so probably someone experienced (fast, aware, probably switching utility skill and traits on the fly to keep the 100% stealth uptime and also be deadly at a moment's notice) with too much free time who switched to a free account to troll around. I just tried to sniff him out so I just came back several times knowing I could die in an instant in an attempt to figure him out. Couldn't do anithing, he was also probably using quickness with dj so even that was almost imposible to dodge if it came out from stealth. Also I saw him using smoke screen, and I'm pretty sure he was using assassins signet before he engaged.

>

> If you can use DE in this manner is kind of cancer, like the late ghost condi thief in a way, with the advantage that this one if not affected by revealed and it's probably a bit harder to pull of.

 

you were that thief from GRIM in lake tower ? i know he had your account name not sure about the numbers

edit: nevermind seems i have recorded it and i actually checked on your name in that recording so it was you.

guess then i was that deadeye on alt account(alt account is not for trolling but to be able to play in multiple matchups).

yes i did switch a trait after the first fight when you came back as BQoBK is just better in such a scenario than M7.

i did not change any utilities and didnt use smoke screen. i used snipers cover when stealthing out of combat and once black powder.

as to what you could have tried there: half the fights i killed you during a binding shadows knockdown+immob, to get out of it and prevent any followup damage i would advise if you comeback to run roll for initative as it will break stun , remove immob and you will evade the DJ. it has just slightly longer cooldown than binding shadows. the other half of the time i killed you with a backstab. now that is more tricky - obvioulsy you could just keep moving but then you just lower the chance i hit you and if i dont hit you i wont drop out of stealth so you cant fight back. there are 2 runes that can help you here aswell. one would be a rather common choice the rune of durability. that is a bit of an rng roll as it has 25 % chance to apply protection before the hit. so you have a 25% chance to get safed from a low malice bs. aside from rng i would also noticing this switch back to m7 and build malice from no teleport spots with rifle and just backstab you then with your protection. so it might help for one fight but not for multiple ones against the same. yesterday i also ran into one power mirage in that match who swapped to superior rune of rebirth after a fight. this rune grants a barrier if you would take lethal damage. i dunno why but i did play with m7 against him and was quite suprised that he was still alive and running after a 28k backstab. so with that you basically have every 90 seconds an option to use yourself as bait to get me out and then kill me with your counter attack, but its risky and you probably only have one chance. after 1. time it also wont be a suprise anymore so i guess then id expect it and would fight more safe so not sure if it would further help you then. obviously the best would have been to sent the others out of the tower, and gank me when i fight the lord. very important for ganking: make sure i dont see you comming. many try to 'gank' me at lord and i see them walking by and then they stealth at 900 units or so.

 

anyway if you want the recording of it so you maybe can use it for our next encounters, i can upload it for you and sent you a link as private message or ingame wouldnt want to post that public as that would cause the wrong complains by people not seeing what is happening :3

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > Guardian GS pull.

> > > DH spear pull.

> > > Dragon's Maw.

> > > All Aura effects (burning, stun, condis).

> > > Retaliation.

> > > All line of warding style skills (ring of warding, fear wall, static, etc).

> > >

> > > All of these were here before Mark. Which you can evade the side effects of anyway (mug, condis, boonsteal, etc). The elite's mechanic of malice buildup, however, is the only thing you can't avoid. Why is this an issue?

> >

> > Not sure what your argument is on the tethers. The pull bypasses dodge, but that makes sense. Not counting moving out of range, there is also abundant counterplay: stability, invulnerability, dodge the hit that tethers in the first place.

> >

> > The wards are nearly inconsequential. The only class they pose a threat to is thief due to a lack of stability options and the only two wards worth giving a kitten about are static field and ring of warding (you can shadowstep/steal/port through ALL line wards with absolutely no effect on you). Even with the ring-shaped ward skills, you can still teleport across the ward, you just suffer the CC from it very briefly.

> >

> > The mark on the other hand is completely unavoidable unless you're out of range. May as well make malice-buildup something baseline to deadeye since you can't deprive them of it. If this change was made, I don't think I'd necessarily complain, but it still stands that DE contributes heavily to the arms race through shadow meld.

>

> i am a little confused.

>

> the part of the mark that is unavoidable is that the deadeye comits to build up his malice towards one single target. that the deadeye has to comit to a single target is a profession limitation, the visual indicator of this commitment is an additonal bonus for the target so it is aware of it.

>

> if you want to make malice buildup baseline against any target you hit, that would be a major buff and you would remove this weakness of the deadeye. yet i think it is also balanced around this commitment to 1 single target in spvp and WvW.

>

> also if you teleport out of a static field you get stunned, if you teleport out of ring you get a short knockdown like after a knockback.

 

I won't deny what you said is the stronger argument in terms of logic, however this game frequently flies in the face of logic in many ways. If they're going to defy logic, keeping the game balanced is one of the best reasons to do so. The mark essentially gives DE a massive damage boost and other various bonuses. In a 1v1 or if you're the squishy player in a group (and know you will be targeted by a DE), you cannot deny the DE that damage boost. Logic aside, I think that's a balance issue.

 

You can argue that the DE is completely useless and incapable of doing damage without that mark, but if the two extremes are hit like a wet noodle vs. one shot your target, then maybe it needs some additional reworking/balancing. Extremes are bad for competitive game modes.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > Guardian GS pull.

> > > > DH spear pull.

> > > > Dragon's Maw.

> > > > All Aura effects (burning, stun, condis).

> > > > Retaliation.

> > > > All line of warding style skills (ring of warding, fear wall, static, etc).

> > > >

> > > > All of these were here before Mark. Which you can evade the side effects of anyway (mug, condis, boonsteal, etc). The elite's mechanic of malice buildup, however, is the only thing you can't avoid. Why is this an issue?

> > >

> > > Not sure what your argument is on the tethers. The pull bypasses dodge, but that makes sense. Not counting moving out of range, there is also abundant counterplay: stability, invulnerability, dodge the hit that tethers in the first place.

> > >

> > > The wards are nearly inconsequential. The only class they pose a threat to is thief due to a lack of stability options and the only two wards worth giving a kitten about are static field and ring of warding (you can shadowstep/steal/port through ALL line wards with absolutely no effect on you). Even with the ring-shaped ward skills, you can still teleport across the ward, you just suffer the CC from it very briefly.

> > >

> > > The mark on the other hand is completely unavoidable unless you're out of range. May as well make malice-buildup something baseline to deadeye since you can't deprive them of it. If this change was made, I don't think I'd necessarily complain, but it still stands that DE contributes heavily to the arms race through shadow meld.

> >

> > i am a little confused.

> >

> > the part of the mark that is unavoidable is that the deadeye comits to build up his malice towards one single target. that the deadeye has to comit to a single target is a profession limitation, the visual indicator of this commitment is an additonal bonus for the target so it is aware of it.

> >

> > if you want to make malice buildup baseline against any target you hit, that would be a major buff and you would remove this weakness of the deadeye. yet i think it is also balanced around this commitment to 1 single target in spvp and WvW.

> >

> > also if you teleport out of a static field you get stunned, if you teleport out of ring you get a short knockdown like after a knockback.

>

> I won't deny what you said is the stronger argument in terms of logic, however this game frequently flies in the face of logic in many ways. If they're going to defy logic, keeping the game balanced is one of the best reasons to do so. The mark essentially gives DE a massive damage boost and other various bonuses. In a 1v1 or if you're the squishy player in a group (and know you will be targeted by a DE), you cannot deny the DE that damage boost. Logic aside, I think that's a balance issue.

>

> You can argue that the DE is completely useless and incapable of doing damage without that mark, but if the two extremes are hit like a wet noodle vs. one shot your target, then maybe it needs some additional reworking/balancing. Extremes are bad for competitive game modes.

 

i know when i am running solo i will get targeted by that 5 man really skilled roaming guild, no way to avoid that they can mark me for their group and all jump me.

i think you have to see the unavoidable part of the mark more like that. like just being targeted. you cant just avoid it unless you stay out of that fight.

the other things happening are malice based wich you partly counterplay but are also just you know a resource thing of the deadeye, you also dont ask for a way to avoid a necro from going into shroud or a way to avoid the opposing holo from overheating, its just thier interaction with their resource. you cant fully controll your opponent like a puppet.

[Celsith.2753]

> @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > I kill many deadeyes every day

>

> that's because most deadeyes are trash bandwagon players. If that would be an argument no class in this game would ever be op.

 

The game is 'balanced' around the skill of the average player. A good player on any class is going to be more difficult but in that instance, he was simply better than his opponent. OFC I sometimes get downed by a DE, like any class :/

 

[NuhDah.9812]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > @"JakeG.9620" said:

> > > > Me and two guildies were catapulting a tower, when one of them suddenly downed without even an enemy in sight. Got stomped like that too. I was like "huh, that's weird." but then without warning I got downed as well. That's when the deadeye came out of stealth :p They need a fix.

> > >

> > > I don't believe this at all "with out warning" ??? You both must of been 11k 0 armour.

> >

> > Actually I've encountered one of those 100% stealth uptime DE's yesterday, he was hitting around 16k-17k with both dj and malicious bs on me as a thief with 15k-16k hp, doing this without malice build up. Enough jut down anything glassy and vannish back into stealth in no time. He was low rank so probably someone experienced (fast, aware, probably switching utility skill and traits on the fly to keep the 100% stealth uptime and also be deadly at a moment's notice) with too much free time who switched to a free account to troll around. I just tried to sniff him out so I just came back several times knowing I could die in an instant in an attempt to figure him out. Couldn't do anithing, he was also probably using quickness with dj so even that was almost imposible to dodge if it came out from stealth. Also I saw him using smoke screen, and I'm pretty sure he was using assassins signet before he engaged.

> >

> > If you can use DE in this manner is kind of cancer, like the late ghost condi thief in a way, with the advantage that this one if not affected by revealed and it's probably a bit harder to pull of.

>

> you were that thief from GRIM in lake tower ? i know he had your account name not sure about the numbers

> edit: nevermind seems i have recorded it and i actually checked on your name in that recording so it was you.

> guess then i was that deadeye on alt account(alt account is not for trolling but to be able to play in multiple matchups).

> yes i did switch a trait after the first fight when you came back as BQoBK is just better in such a scenario than M7.

> i did not change any utilities and didnt use smoke screen. i used snipers cover when stealthing out of combat and once black powder.

> as to what you could have tried there: half the fights i killed you during a binding shadows knockdown+immob, to get out of it and prevent any followup damage i would advise if you comeback to run roll for initative as it will break stun , remove immob and you will evade the DJ. it has just slightly longer cooldown than binding shadows. the other half of the time i killed you with a backstab. now that is more tricky - obvioulsy you could just keep moving but then you just lower the chance i hit you and if i dont hit you i wont drop out of stealth so you cant fight back. there are 2 runes that can help you here aswell. one would be a rather common choice the rune of durability. that is a bit of an rng roll as it has 25 % chance to apply protection before the hit. so you have a 25% chance to get safed from a low malice bs. aside from rng i would also noticing this switch back to m7 and build malice from no teleport spots with rifle and just backstab you then with your protection. so it might help for one fight but not for multiple ones against the same. yesterday i also ran into one power mirage in that match who swapped to superior rune of rebirth after a fight. this rune grants a barrier if you would take lethal damage. i dunno why but i did play with m7 against him and was quite suprised that he was still alive and running after a 28k backstab. so with that you basically have every 90 seconds an option to use yourself as bait to get me out and then kill me with your counter attack, but its risky and you probably only have one chance. after 1. time it also wont be a suprise anymore so i guess then id expect it and would fight more safe so not sure if it would further help you then. obviously the best would have been to sent the others out of the tower, and gank me when i fight the lord. very important for ganking: make sure i dont see you comming. many try to 'gank' me at lord and i see them walking by and then they stealth at 900 units or so.

>

> anyway if you want the recording of it so you maybe can use it for our next encounters, i can upload it for you and sent you a link as private message or ingame wouldnt want to post that public as that would cause the wrong complains by people not seeing what is happening :3

 

Yeap, that was me indeed. Nice to meet someone I see active on the forums in the field. Though I can't say i saw you too well, you know, 'cause of the stealth stacking, lol. Thanks for the follow up, corrections and advice. I guess Roll for Initiative would be a good choice, and I know this late DrD meta build is a bit obsolete the way the game plays now, but let's just say I wanted to experiment with the build I usually play so I didn't expect anything from those "trial and errors", just checking out vulnerabilities on both sides, using my own capabilities. I'm using a potato 3 buttons mouse so I really need a better one to have a quick bind for about face (which unfortunately I don't have right now) to be able to make the most of abilities of the sort.

 

When I usually roam around in the field I find DEs, but most of them don't 100% stealth uptime or don't know/have the skill to pull it off, and against to kind of build I play staying out of stealth on a deadeye more than the safe 1 shot it's sort of a death penalty. I think I can count with one hand the encounters against DEs that didn't give me a chance to fight back and usually remove them. Oh, and I think there were few times when I got caught in a duo of DEs who were covering each others arse, but that's sort of it. I know what you're saying about attacking you when you were fighting the lord, I did take one out like that one time stealthing outside the keep's inner wall porting with shadowstep through the door and insta steal+bs = instant down on their side. That one didn't have any chance of seeing me come and I just wandered in there randomly so it just happened. As for my encounter with you I had no Idea you were going to go for the lord, as I said, I thought you were trolling around there. And you weren't attacking carelessly only when you knew you had the kill. There was an ally most of the time I was at the tower, but you weren't attacking them, that's why I thought you were just going for something that you can 1 shot and not for the lord. A missinterpretation on my part, I guess.

 

Finally, I'd love to get a peek at the fights from your side of things, if it won't be able to use it to shine for our next encounters (though I really like stuff that makes me learn something new, I'm sort of a slow learner, casual, my reflexes are far from being in my prime, got into "competitive" gaming when I was to old already to make myself a "pro", bad pc peripherals, blah blah and all the other possible excuses) at least I feel like it would be a way more amusing and engaging watch from your side of things. It's always entertaining to see something funny like how I got my arse kicked by someone another thief I respect from the forums and I'd love to see your recording.

 

Cheers!

[Turk.5460]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > I kill many deadeyes every day

> >

> > that's because most deadeyes are trash bandwagon players. If that would be an argument no class in this game would ever be op.

>

> The game is 'balanced' around the skill of the average player. A good player on any class is going to be more difficult but in that instance, he was simply better than his opponent. OFC I sometimes get downed by a DE, like any class :/

>

 

Ehhhhhh, pretty much every Thief balancing up until the DE re-work has been balancing around the skill ceiling. Can't say the same for things like Necro, Warrior, Engi, Ranger, where they usually balance more near the skill floor...

[kash.9213]

> @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > @"JakeG.9620" said:

> > > > > Me and two guildies were catapulting a tower, when one of them suddenly downed without even an enemy in sight. Got stomped like that too. I was like "huh, that's weird." but then without warning I got downed as well. That's when the deadeye came out of stealth :p They need a fix.

> > > >

> > > > I don't believe this at all "with out warning" ??? You both must of been 11k 0 armour.

> > >

> > > Actually I've encountered one of those 100% stealth uptime DE's yesterday, he was hitting around 16k-17k with both dj and malicious bs on me as a thief with 15k-16k hp, doing this without malice build up. Enough jut down anything glassy and vannish back into stealth in no time. He was low rank so probably someone experienced (fast, aware, probably switching utility skill and traits on the fly to keep the 100% stealth uptime and also be deadly at a moment's notice) with too much free time who switched to a free account to troll around. I just tried to sniff him out so I just came back several times knowing I could die in an instant in an attempt to figure him out. Couldn't do anithing, he was also probably using quickness with dj so even that was almost imposible to dodge if it came out from stealth. Also I saw him using smoke screen, and I'm pretty sure he was using assassins signet before he engaged.

> > >

> > > If you can use DE in this manner is kind of cancer, like the late ghost condi thief in a way, with the advantage that this one if not affected by revealed and it's probably a bit harder to pull of.

> >

> > you were that thief from GRIM in lake tower ? i know he had your account name not sure about the numbers

> > edit: nevermind seems i have recorded it and i actually checked on your name in that recording so it was you.

> > guess then i was that deadeye on alt account(alt account is not for trolling but to be able to play in multiple matchups).

> > yes i did switch a trait after the first fight when you came back as BQoBK is just better in such a scenario than M7.

> > i did not change any utilities and didnt use smoke screen. i used snipers cover when stealthing out of combat and once black powder.

> > as to what you could have tried there: half the fights i killed you during a binding shadows knockdown+immob, to get out of it and prevent any followup damage i would advise if you comeback to run roll for initative as it will break stun , remove immob and you will evade the DJ. it has just slightly longer cooldown than binding shadows. the other half of the time i killed you with a backstab. now that is more tricky - obvioulsy you could just keep moving but then you just lower the chance i hit you and if i dont hit you i wont drop out of stealth so you cant fight back. there are 2 runes that can help you here aswell. one would be a rather common choice the rune of durability. that is a bit of an rng roll as it has 25 % chance to apply protection before the hit. so you have a 25% chance to get safed from a low malice bs. aside from rng i would also noticing this switch back to m7 and build malice from no teleport spots with rifle and just backstab you then with your protection. so it might help for one fight but not for multiple ones against the same. yesterday i also ran into one power mirage in that match who swapped to superior rune of rebirth after a fight. this rune grants a barrier if you would take lethal damage. i dunno why but i did play with m7 against him and was quite suprised that he was still alive and running after a 28k backstab. so with that you basically have every 90 seconds an option to use yourself as bait to get me out and then kill me with your counter attack, but its risky and you probably only have one chance. after 1. time it also wont be a suprise anymore so i guess then id expect it and would fight more safe so not sure if it would further help you then. obviously the best would have been to sent the others out of the tower, and gank me when i fight the lord. very important for ganking: make sure i dont see you comming. many try to 'gank' me at lord and i see them walking by and then they stealth at 900 units or so.

> >

> > anyway if you want the recording of it so you maybe can use it for our next encounters, i can upload it for you and sent you a link as private message or ingame wouldnt want to post that public as that would cause the wrong complains by people not seeing what is happening :3

>

> Yeap, that was me indeed. Nice to meet someone I see active on the forums in the field. Though I can't say i saw you too well, you know, 'cause of the stealth stacking, lol. Thanks for the follow up, corrections and advice. I guess Roll for Initiative would be a good choice, and I know this late DrD meta build is a bit obsolete the way the game plays now, but let's just say I wanted to experiment with the build I usually play so I didn't expect anything from those "trial and errors", just checking out vulnerabilities on both sides, using my own capabilities. **I'm using a potato 3 buttons mouse so I really need a better one to have a quick bind for about face (which unfortunately I don't have right now) to be able to make the most of abilities of the sort.**

>

> When I usually roam around in the field I find DEs, but most of them don't 100% stealth uptime or don't know/have the skill to pull it off, and against to kind of build I play staying out of stealth on a deadeye more than the safe 1 shot it's sort of a death penalty. I think I can count with one hand the encounters against DEs that didn't give me a chance to fight back and usually remove them. Oh, and I think there were few times when I got caught in a duo of DEs who were covering each others kitten, but that's sort of it. I know what you're saying about attacking you when you were fighting the lord, I did take one out like that one time stealthing outside the keep's inner wall porting with shadowstep through the door and insta steal+bs = instant down on their side. That one didn't have any chance of seeing me come and I just wandered in there randomly so it just happened. As for my encounter with you I had no Idea you were going to go for the lord, as I said, I thought you were trolling around there. And you weren't attacking carelessly only when you knew you had the kill. There was an ally most of the time I was at the tower, but you weren't attacking them, that's why I thought you were just going for something that you can 1 shot and not for the lord. A missinterpretation on my part, I guess.

>

> Finally, I'd love to get a peek at the fights from your side of things, if it won't be able to use it to shine for our next encounters (though I really like stuff that makes me learn something new, I'm sort of a slow learner, casual, my reflexes are far from being in my prime, got into "competitive" gaming when I was to old already to make myself a "pro", bad pc peripherals, blah blah and all the other possible excuses) at least I feel like it would be a way more amusing and engaging watch from your side of things. It's always entertaining to see something funny like how I got my kitten kicked by someone another thief I respect from the forums and I'd love to see your recording.

>

> Cheers!

 

You don't want too much going on with your mouse, two extra side buttons is just about right, maybe four. See what you can remap around your keyboard hand and use everything, I like having my oh-shit skill on Left Ctrl so I only have to lean my lower palm on it and everything else I'll use in combat is in the area so I don't have to lift my hand off. I've also found about-face to take too much time, getting used to quick camera pan and flicking Deaths Retreat un-targeted has been a lot more reliable and it's also easier and faster to jump over walls and stuff that way

[NuhDah.9812]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > > @"JakeG.9620" said:

> > > > > > Me and two guildies were catapulting a tower, when one of them suddenly downed without even an enemy in sight. Got stomped like that too. I was like "huh, that's weird." but then without warning I got downed as well. That's when the deadeye came out of stealth :p They need a fix.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't believe this at all "with out warning" ??? You both must of been 11k 0 armour.

> > > >

> > > > Actually I've encountered one of those 100% stealth uptime DE's yesterday, he was hitting around 16k-17k with both dj and malicious bs on me as a thief with 15k-16k hp, doing this without malice build up. Enough jut down anything glassy and vannish back into stealth in no time. He was low rank so probably someone experienced (fast, aware, probably switching utility skill and traits on the fly to keep the 100% stealth uptime and also be deadly at a moment's notice) with too much free time who switched to a free account to troll around. I just tried to sniff him out so I just came back several times knowing I could die in an instant in an attempt to figure him out. Couldn't do anithing, he was also probably using quickness with dj so even that was almost imposible to dodge if it came out from stealth. Also I saw him using smoke screen, and I'm pretty sure he was using assassins signet before he engaged.

> > > >

> > > > If you can use DE in this manner is kind of cancer, like the late ghost condi thief in a way, with the advantage that this one if not affected by revealed and it's probably a bit harder to pull of.

> > >

> > > you were that thief from GRIM in lake tower ? i know he had your account name not sure about the numbers

> > > edit: nevermind seems i have recorded it and i actually checked on your name in that recording so it was you.

> > > guess then i was that deadeye on alt account(alt account is not for trolling but to be able to play in multiple matchups).

> > > yes i did switch a trait after the first fight when you came back as BQoBK is just better in such a scenario than M7.

> > > i did not change any utilities and didnt use smoke screen. i used snipers cover when stealthing out of combat and once black powder.

> > > as to what you could have tried there: half the fights i killed you during a binding shadows knockdown+immob, to get out of it and prevent any followup damage i would advise if you comeback to run roll for initative as it will break stun , remove immob and you will evade the DJ. it has just slightly longer cooldown than binding shadows. the other half of the time i killed you with a backstab. now that is more tricky - obvioulsy you could just keep moving but then you just lower the chance i hit you and if i dont hit you i wont drop out of stealth so you cant fight back. there are 2 runes that can help you here aswell. one would be a rather common choice the rune of durability. that is a bit of an rng roll as it has 25 % chance to apply protection before the hit. so you have a 25% chance to get safed from a low malice bs. aside from rng i would also noticing this switch back to m7 and build malice from no teleport spots with rifle and just backstab you then with your protection. so it might help for one fight but not for multiple ones against the same. yesterday i also ran into one power mirage in that match who swapped to superior rune of rebirth after a fight. this rune grants a barrier if you would take lethal damage. i dunno why but i did play with m7 against him and was quite suprised that he was still alive and running after a 28k backstab. so with that you basically have every 90 seconds an option to use yourself as bait to get me out and then kill me with your counter attack, but its risky and you probably only have one chance. after 1. time it also wont be a suprise anymore so i guess then id expect it and would fight more safe so not sure if it would further help you then. obviously the best would have been to sent the others out of the tower, and gank me when i fight the lord. very important for ganking: make sure i dont see you comming. many try to 'gank' me at lord and i see them walking by and then they stealth at 900 units or so.

> > >

> > > anyway if you want the recording of it so you maybe can use it for our next encounters, i can upload it for you and sent you a link as private message or ingame wouldnt want to post that public as that would cause the wrong complains by people not seeing what is happening :3

> >

> > Yeap, that was me indeed. Nice to meet someone I see active on the forums in the field. Though I can't say i saw you too well, you know, 'cause of the stealth stacking, lol. Thanks for the follow up, corrections and advice. I guess Roll for Initiative would be a good choice, and I know this late DrD meta build is a bit obsolete the way the game plays now, but let's just say I wanted to experiment with the build I usually play so I didn't expect anything from those "trial and errors", just checking out vulnerabilities on both sides, using my own capabilities. **I'm using a potato 3 buttons mouse so I really need a better one to have a quick bind for about face (which unfortunately I don't have right now) to be able to make the most of abilities of the sort.**

> >

> > When I usually roam around in the field I find DEs, but most of them don't 100% stealth uptime or don't know/have the skill to pull it off, and against to kind of build I play staying out of stealth on a deadeye more than the safe 1 shot it's sort of a death penalty. I think I can count with one hand the encounters against DEs that didn't give me a chance to fight back and usually remove them. Oh, and I think there were few times when I got caught in a duo of DEs who were covering each others kitten, but that's sort of it. I know what you're saying about attacking you when you were fighting the lord, I did take one out like that one time stealthing outside the keep's inner wall porting with shadowstep through the door and insta steal+bs = instant down on their side. That one didn't have any chance of seeing me come and I just wandered in there randomly so it just happened. As for my encounter with you I had no Idea you were going to go for the lord, as I said, I thought you were trolling around there. And you weren't attacking carelessly only when you knew you had the kill. There was an ally most of the time I was at the tower, but you weren't attacking them, that's why I thought you were just going for something that you can 1 shot and not for the lord. A missinterpretation on my part, I guess.

> >

> > Finally, I'd love to get a peek at the fights from your side of things, if it won't be able to use it to shine for our next encounters (though I really like stuff that makes me learn something new, I'm sort of a slow learner, casual, my reflexes are far from being in my prime, got into "competitive" gaming when I was to old already to make myself a "pro", bad pc peripherals, blah blah and all the other possible excuses) at least I feel like it would be a way more amusing and engaging watch from your side of things. It's always entertaining to see something funny like how I got my kitten kicked by someone another thief I respect from the forums and I'd love to see your recording.

> >

> > Cheers!

>

> You don't want too much going on with your mouse, two extra side buttons is just about right, maybe four. See what you can remap around your keyboard hand and use everything, I like having my oh-kitten skill on Left Ctrl so I only have to lean my lower palm on it and everything else I'll use in combat is in the area so I don't have to lift my hand off. I've also found about-face to take too much time, getting used to quick camera pan and flicking Deaths Retreat un-targeted has been a lot more reliable and it's also easier and faster to jump over walls and stuff that way

 

Nope, i wouldn't go with more than 2 to 4 additional buttons on my mouse anyways, I know very well what I'm capable of and having too many buttons to get used to it's not my thing. unfortunately I haven't found a mouse that feels like the one I'm used to and using right now and the fact that it needs to have more buttons on a fairly small frame like the one I use makes it even more unlikely to find.

[Celsith.2753]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

>

> Ehhhhhh, pretty much every Thief balancing up until the DE re-work has been balancing around the skill ceiling. Can't say the same for things like Necro, Warrior, Engi, Ranger, where they usually balance more near the skill floor...

 

I agree I was just being diplomatic ;)

 

[Israel.7056]

Seems like they should just start with toning down DJ based on what I'm seeing in this thread and in videos.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> Seems like they should just start with toning down DJ based on what I'm seeing in this thread and in videos.

 

And Malicious Backstab, both could use a shave. But it's also not very hard to perma-stealth, kneel, binding shadows, TRB spam. And the reward is outta this world.

[phs.6089]

Fix that kitten DE already. I swear to gods it getting out of hands

[Turk.5460]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> Fix that kitten DE already. I swear to gods it getting out of hands

 

Fix DE *dodge to stealth, Malicious Backstab, and Death's Judgement*. Everything else on DE is fine. (aside from needing a -20% Cantrips cooldown trait)

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

 

> i know when i am running solo i will get targeted by that 5 man really skilled roaming guild, no way to avoid that they can mark me for their group and all jump me.

> i think you have to see the unavoidable part of the mark more like that. like just being targeted. you cant just avoid it unless you stay out of that fight.

> the other things happening are malice based wich you partly counterplay but are also just you know a resource thing of the deadeye, you also dont ask for a way to avoid a necro from going into shroud or a way to avoid the opposing holo from overheating, its just thier interaction with their resource. you cant fully controll your opponent like a puppet.

 

As DE you have very easy access to perma stealth. Avoiding very mobile roaming groups and large zergs alike is a nonproblem. You can also remove revealed twice so they have nothing they can do to counterplay if your objective is to simply escape.

 

DE mark is quite different from the examples you gave. The base class goes from dealing mediocre damage to dealing considerably more damage once in form and cannot stay in form for very long. DE however has 100% uptime of DE's mark since the cooldown is shorter than the mark duration. That's why I mentioned that the malice generation/mechanic may as well be baseline since they never don't have access to it as things stand now.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Ubi.4136" said:

> The only issue I think we have at the moment is a contradiction in the deadeye elite and stealth traps. The whole reason the traps were added was to prevent perma-stealth builds from doing exactly what deadeye's are doing. I get the point of the elite, and removing revealed, yet it runs contrary to the whole point of the reveal trap. It seems like more of an oversight on Anet's part, and it would be really nice if they would at least comment.

 

Well, this is pretty much devs creating an arms race on their own...

Stealth was too strong so they adde stealth traps and some skills that could reveal stealth. Now they add a skill that removes revealed and adds stealth, next they'll have to make a new kind of reveal that can't be removed, etc, etc...

GW2 balance team is just not very good.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

Zerks, signet of the assassin haste, leading shots, sigil of the infiltrator on the rifle, and M7, deadly arts with executioner.

 

10% more damage when enemy is below 50 from sigil.

 

20% more when enemy is below 50 from executioner.

 

Bonus famage for conditions.

 

15% more damage from leading blows for vurning initiative.

 

10% more damage from mark

 

I used a similar build to protect a camp with the assistance of thiefs traps to keep them off of me.

 

Its not really a broken build as the DE is going to be squishy as all hell. You need to find cover immediately and figure out where he is.

 

If they are like me and bunkered up on high ground just run if you dont have projectule hate. If you can get to him easily, force his attention to split by flanking. It will take him longer to swap targets after a kill.

 

Hit him once and he will burn like tissue paper soaked in kerosine.