Can WvW server be made not pay to win.

[XenesisII.1540]

> So tell me OP. Precisely which games don't give you an advantage for buying the expansion? I mean most games raise the level cap which gives you an advantage in PvP, no? P2W has never applied to expansions before, only microtransactions, where you have to keep spending money. I mean if you meet a guy on a PvP server in WOW and he's 10 levels higher than you, won't he kill you?

 

Wow has level brackets for battleground pvp, or max level for arena, and they also have the new open world pvp mode which has level scaling.

A person without an expansion won't be playing into the new expansion levels, with those that do.

They also revamp classes from top to bottom which everyone has access to, not just add separate specs that only expansion people have access to.

Unlike gw2 which allows everyone free/core/hot/pof to join wvw and spvp in one massive pool of players, which in turn allows the new specs which are usually overtuned, to be dominating, which in turn makes anyone without the latest expansion to call it p2w.

[Blocki.4931]

Idk, people who can't even play any new content that comes out really aren't the demographic I'd worry about

[MUDse.7623]

> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> The meaning of what p2w is has been lost with the new age of gamers. This game is indeed, p2w as it is currently. Regardless of if a player can win with a core class or not. When stacked side by side with a elite specialization if there is a marginal difference in power/effectiveness then that is the definition of p2w.

>

> Anet knows this, which is why class balance is in its current state where PoF classes are powercreeped. Same with HoT classes when they first rolled out.

>

> Current model as is. New expansion (Powercreep classes) -> Odd balance decisions to act as if there doing something with the feedback -> New expansion comes(Nerf previous expansion classes, powercreep the new ones).

>

> Hell look at scourge on beta weekend when servers were running it in mass. Biggest example of p2w.

 

to balance core with elite spec, core would also need exclusive elements in their builds. a traitline, weapon and utility set. but then you also would need to _force_ core to pick that specific traitline. that would be a huge rework todo as it would require many adjustments to core and elite specs - therefore i think it is unrealistic.

but people would still buy the expensions even if they are just as strong as core overall, because it would be more options. more options means you can better adjust for a specific situation.

[Junkpile.7439]

For example they could let vanilla ele be good at something, but no. Weaver have to do most dmg every weapon, have better skills, better defense and so on.

[Henry.5713]

Would understand if people complained about a "Premium System". Something along the lines of forcing you to spend a continuous amount of money equal to a subscription or more likely double or tripple that amount (something I have seen in truely F2P games) but these complaints about having to buy a cheap expansion? An expansion that comes with so many additions? Come on...

[Aleen.8561]

> 1.) You need cleaner code.

> 2.) You need better programmers.

 

That's what players in any game say when they dislike something :lol:

On a serious note, this is a b2p game, what have you expected? In most cases such games have expansions that come out once in a while, and you need to buy them for extra content. By the way, if you're a casual player, that doesn't get bored with the regular content, so you don't want to buy expansions, you don't have to be the meta in WvW ;) Leave it to hardcore players that strive for the glory.

[Sovereign.1093]

money, if not available, means you need to figure a way to generate irl cash so your cash will always > than your total expense. =)

 

if you have some extra, save and a portion of that invest. and the rest, maybe spend a bit on your games.

 

buy if you truly believe that gw2 should be free, because anet also needs to feed themselves, it may not be realisitic.

 

income over expense or i/e > 1.01 atleast. then discipline yourself to increase by .01 or 1% at a time. i bet you can do 20% savings after all your expenses.

 

if you dont have income, then probably it is time to find work. hehe. cant enjoy games if u dont got salary

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Skeletor.9360" said:

> No...this is rewarding bad behavior

 

That's what most of gw2 players are here for LOL.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > The meaning of what p2w is has been lost with the new age of gamers. This game is indeed, p2w as it is currently. Regardless of if a player can win with a core class or not. When stacked side by side with a elite specialization if there is a marginal difference in power/effectiveness then that is the definition of p2w.

> >

> > Anet knows this, which is why class balance is in its current state where PoF classes are powercreeped. Same with HoT classes when they first rolled out.

> >

> > Current model as is. New expansion (Powercreep classes) -> Odd balance decisions to act as if there doing something with the feedback -> New expansion comes(Nerf previous expansion classes, powercreep the new ones).

> >

> > Hell look at scourge on beta weekend when servers were running it in mass. Biggest example of p2w.

>

> But does it actually matter?

>

> No.

>

> For one thing, there is years between expansions. Compared to other games such as the Battlefield series, thats literally the eqvivalent of releasing a new game. No one is squeezing your wallet or turning you upside down to get every last dollar every month just to get you the latest stuff. You maybe call it p2w, I just call it an expansion. PoF is now GW2 the game, not GW2 vanilla version.

>

> Secondly, the f2p aspects of GW2 (ie GW2 vanilla) is basicly *shareware*. Its a **demo**. GW2 is *not* a f2p game, it was never intented like that. Its meant to get you interested, to get you hooked. To show you what GW2 **the game** (HoT+PoF) is for free so that you can tell your friends "hey look at this awesome game!" and not have them go *"but I have to pay to test I dont wanna commit to a new MMO bwaaabwaaaabwaaa"*. But with this, you can take them to WvW and show them the game.

>

> Thirdly, if you keep insisting its p2w then sure, lets say its p2w then. That only means GW2 is the top 1 game with the best implementation of p2w ever for the customer. I'm sure we'll do ok.

 

Kind of weird to say it doesn't matter when people reject those who dont run specific builds/setups. Or when you look at things like core engineer and see how boosted the elite specs are interms of potential with the current state of the game. In the end it actually does matter. Maybe it doesnt matter in PvE if you dont care for running the content, but in PvP and WvW, it makes all the difference.

 

Gw2, top game... ehhh, wouldnt think so. But the mmo market is pretty crap as it is, I would have to say warframe is actually the best implementation of p2w.

[Blocki.4931]

> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > The meaning of what p2w is has been lost with the new age of gamers. This game is indeed, p2w as it is currently. Regardless of if a player can win with a core class or not. When stacked side by side with a elite specialization if there is a marginal difference in power/effectiveness then that is the definition of p2w.

> > >

> > > Anet knows this, which is why class balance is in its current state where PoF classes are powercreeped. Same with HoT classes when they first rolled out.

> > >

> > > Current model as is. New expansion (Powercreep classes) -> Odd balance decisions to act as if there doing something with the feedback -> New expansion comes(Nerf previous expansion classes, powercreep the new ones).

> > >

> > > Hell look at scourge on beta weekend when servers were running it in mass. Biggest example of p2w.

> >

> > But does it actually matter?

> >

> > No.

> >

> > For one thing, there is years between expansions. Compared to other games such as the Battlefield series, thats literally the eqvivalent of releasing a new game. No one is squeezing your wallet or turning you upside down to get every last dollar every month just to get you the latest stuff. You maybe call it p2w, I just call it an expansion. PoF is now GW2 the game, not GW2 vanilla version.

> >

> > Secondly, the f2p aspects of GW2 (ie GW2 vanilla) is basicly *shareware*. Its a **demo**. GW2 is *not* a f2p game, it was never intented like that. Its meant to get you interested, to get you hooked. To show you what GW2 **the game** (HoT+PoF) is for free so that you can tell your friends "hey look at this awesome game!" and not have them go *"but I have to pay to test I dont wanna commit to a new MMO bwaaabwaaaabwaaa"*. But with this, you can take them to WvW and show them the game.

> >

> > Thirdly, if you keep insisting its p2w then sure, lets say its p2w then. That only means GW2 is the top 1 game with the best implementation of p2w ever for the customer. I'm sure we'll do ok.

>

> Kind of weird to say it doesn't matter when people reject those who dont run specific builds/setups. Or when you look at things like core engineer and see how boosted the elite specs are interms of potential with the current state of the game. In the end it actually does matter. Maybe it doesnt matter in PvE if you dont care for running the content, but in PvP and WvW, it makes all the difference.

>

> Gw2, top game... ehhh, wouldnt think so. But the mmo market is pretty crap as it is, I would have to say warframe is actually the best implementation of p2w.

 

I think he meant that it is so good at p2w that we dont even notice

[iKeostuKen.2738]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > The meaning of what p2w is has been lost with the new age of gamers. This game is indeed, p2w as it is currently. Regardless of if a player can win with a core class or not. When stacked side by side with a elite specialization if there is a marginal difference in power/effectiveness then that is the definition of p2w.

> >

> > Anet knows this, which is why class balance is in its current state where PoF classes are powercreeped. Same with HoT classes when they first rolled out.

> >

> > Current model as is. New expansion (Powercreep classes) -> Odd balance decisions to act as if there doing something with the feedback -> New expansion comes(Nerf previous expansion classes, powercreep the new ones).

> >

> > Hell look at scourge on beta weekend when servers were running it in mass. Biggest example of p2w.

>

> to balance core with elite spec, core would also need exclusive elements in their builds. a traitline, weapon and utility set. but then you also would need to _force_ core to pick that specific traitline. that would be a huge rework todo as it would require many adjustments to core and elite specs - therefore i think it is unrealistic.

> but people would still buy the expensions even if they are just as strong as core overall, because it would be more options. more options means you can better adjust for a specific situation.

 

Nah it would come with the design philosophy, you gain one but lose another. Whether its in functionality, a traitline thats exceptional to suvivability or damage or what have you. But you have classes that only gain without losing on anything, majority gaining far to much. A core dps spec shouldn't be getting another dps spec for their elite while gaining sustain. Same with a core spec thats good at sustain getting one that boost its sustain even more if it doesnt take a hit to its damage. It doesnt require core specs to be touched at all unless they are way under performing or have strange designs from years of neglect. Instead they should just rework how elite specs are implemented and designed.

 

For example, Spellbreaker. Get rid of all the damage increase, gravitate their traitlines into specifically working with boons and conditions. Cleansing, gaining boons, etc. With Berserker it focuses more on Damage and dealing it to many in the form or condis or damage. while not having defensive options.

 

More options yeah, thats what they should be, just options. Not complete upgrades in every aspect of the game.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > > The meaning of what p2w is has been lost with the new age of gamers. This game is indeed, p2w as it is currently. Regardless of if a player can win with a core class or not. When stacked side by side with a elite specialization if there is a marginal difference in power/effectiveness then that is the definition of p2w.

> > > >

> > > > Anet knows this, which is why class balance is in its current state where PoF classes are powercreeped. Same with HoT classes when they first rolled out.

> > > >

> > > > Current model as is. New expansion (Powercreep classes) -> Odd balance decisions to act as if there doing something with the feedback -> New expansion comes(Nerf previous expansion classes, powercreep the new ones).

> > > >

> > > > Hell look at scourge on beta weekend when servers were running it in mass. Biggest example of p2w.

> > >

> > > But does it actually matter?

> > >

> > > No.

> > >

> > > For one thing, there is years between expansions. Compared to other games such as the Battlefield series, thats literally the eqvivalent of releasing a new game. No one is squeezing your wallet or turning you upside down to get every last dollar every month just to get you the latest stuff. You maybe call it p2w, I just call it an expansion. PoF is now GW2 the game, not GW2 vanilla version.

> > >

> > > Secondly, the f2p aspects of GW2 (ie GW2 vanilla) is basicly *shareware*. Its a **demo**. GW2 is *not* a f2p game, it was never intented like that. Its meant to get you interested, to get you hooked. To show you what GW2 **the game** (HoT+PoF) is for free so that you can tell your friends "hey look at this awesome game!" and not have them go *"but I have to pay to test I dont wanna commit to a new MMO bwaaabwaaaabwaaa"*. But with this, you can take them to WvW and show them the game.

> > >

> > > Thirdly, if you keep insisting its p2w then sure, lets say its p2w then. That only means GW2 is the top 1 game with the best implementation of p2w ever for the customer. I'm sure we'll do ok.

> >

> > Kind of weird to say it doesn't matter when people reject those who dont run specific builds/setups. Or when you look at things like core engineer and see how boosted the elite specs are interms of potential with the current state of the game. In the end it actually does matter. Maybe it doesnt matter in PvE if you dont care for running the content, but in PvP and WvW, it makes all the difference.

> >

> > Gw2, top game... ehhh, wouldnt think so. But the mmo market is pretty crap as it is, I would have to say warframe is actually the best implementation of p2w.

>

> I think he meant that it is so good at p2w that we dont even notice

 

Many p2w game communities share that mentality. Should see the community on s4 league, thats a different brand of denial altogether.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > The meaning of what p2w is has been lost with the new age of gamers. This game is indeed, p2w as it is currently. Regardless of if a player can win with a core class or not. When stacked side by side with a elite specialization if there is a marginal difference in power/effectiveness then that is the definition of p2w.

> > >

> > > Anet knows this, which is why class balance is in its current state where PoF classes are powercreeped. Same with HoT classes when they first rolled out.

> > >

> > > Current model as is. New expansion (Powercreep classes) -> Odd balance decisions to act as if there doing something with the feedback -> New expansion comes(Nerf previous expansion classes, powercreep the new ones).

> > >

> > > Hell look at scourge on beta weekend when servers were running it in mass. Biggest example of p2w.

> >

> > to balance core with elite spec, core would also need exclusive elements in their builds. a traitline, weapon and utility set. but then you also would need to _force_ core to pick that specific traitline. that would be a huge rework todo as it would require many adjustments to core and elite specs - therefore i think it is unrealistic.

> > but people would still buy the expensions even if they are just as strong as core overall, because it would be more options. more options means you can better adjust for a specific situation.

>

> Nah it would come with the design philosophy, you gain one but lose another. Whether its in functionality, a traitline thats exceptional to suvivability or damage or what have you. But you have classes that only gain without losing on anything, majority gaining far to much. A core dps spec shouldn't be getting another dps spec for their elite while gaining sustain. Same with a core spec thats good at sustain getting one that boost its sustain even more if it doesnt take a hit to its damage. It doesnt require core specs to be touched at all unless they are way under performing or have strange designs from years of neglect. Instead they should just rework how elite specs are implemented and designed.

>

> For example, Spellbreaker. Get rid of all the damage increase, gravitate their traitlines into specifically working with boons and conditions. Cleansing, gaining boons, etc. With Berserker it focuses more on Damage and dealing it to many in the form or condis or damage. while not having defensive options.

>

> More options yeah, thats what they should be, just options. Not complete upgrades in every aspect of the game.

 

i am not sure what exactly you want changed about the elite specs, your spellbreaker example really confused me. if you change it to a traitline that is all about boons and condis, then it will replace more or less defense and you will see more strength, discipline, spellbreaker with a ton of boons and condi cleanse? that doesnt mean that spellbreaker than would be weaker or in your eyes more in line with core. it would just be a little different.

if there is nothing exclusive to core, then core can hardly excell in any single aspect.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > > The meaning of what p2w is has been lost with the new age of gamers. This game is indeed, p2w as it is currently. Regardless of if a player can win with a core class or not. When stacked side by side with a elite specialization if there is a marginal difference in power/effectiveness then that is the definition of p2w.

> > > >

> > > > Anet knows this, which is why class balance is in its current state where PoF classes are powercreeped. Same with HoT classes when they first rolled out.

> > > >

> > > > Current model as is. New expansion (Powercreep classes) -> Odd balance decisions to act as if there doing something with the feedback -> New expansion comes(Nerf previous expansion classes, powercreep the new ones).

> > > >

> > > > Hell look at scourge on beta weekend when servers were running it in mass. Biggest example of p2w.

> > >

> > > to balance core with elite spec, core would also need exclusive elements in their builds. a traitline, weapon and utility set. but then you also would need to _force_ core to pick that specific traitline. that would be a huge rework todo as it would require many adjustments to core and elite specs - therefore i think it is unrealistic.

> > > but people would still buy the expensions even if they are just as strong as core overall, because it would be more options. more options means you can better adjust for a specific situation.

> >

> > Nah it would come with the design philosophy, you gain one but lose another. Whether its in functionality, a traitline thats exceptional to suvivability or damage or what have you. But you have classes that only gain without losing on anything, majority gaining far to much. A core dps spec shouldn't be getting another dps spec for their elite while gaining sustain. Same with a core spec thats good at sustain getting one that boost its sustain even more if it doesnt take a hit to its damage. It doesnt require core specs to be touched at all unless they are way under performing or have strange designs from years of neglect. Instead they should just rework how elite specs are implemented and designed.

> >

> > For example, Spellbreaker. Get rid of all the damage increase, gravitate their traitlines into specifically working with boons and conditions. Cleansing, gaining boons, etc. With Berserker it focuses more on Damage and dealing it to many in the form or condis or damage. while not having defensive options.

> >

> > More options yeah, thats what they should be, just options. Not complete upgrades in every aspect of the game.

>

> i am not sure what exactly you want changed about the elite specs, your spellbreaker example really confused me. if you change it to a traitline that is all about boons and condis, then it will replace more or less defense and you will see more strength, discipline, spellbreaker with a ton of boons and condi cleanse? that doesnt mean that spellbreaker than would be weaker or in your eyes more in line with core. it would just be a little different.

> if there is nothing exclusive to core, then core can hardly excell in any single aspect.

 

With my example it would mean no damage modifiers. It should function on a specific role, control. The elite spec should be designed on controlling boons instead of gaining damage and burst potential from them since warriors already have a spec focused on damage which is berserker. Sadly SB excels in every category ingame aside from condition application. It has damage, sustain, control, its completely overtuned, basically a upgrade to core warrior, not much seen as a option. Do away with overtuned elite spec design would help kill the blatant p2w aspect.

 

Basically what im saying is to design around having trade offs on deciding to pick up a elite spec:

You want sustain, you lose damage.

You want damage, you lose sustain.

High single target effectiveness, lower aoe effectiveness.

 

Its p2w because elite specs are clear upgrades to their core counterparts, they dont have a tradeoff, instead the elite specs are gaining instead of losing anything.

[Sovereign.1093]

example?

 

my team runs pof. and we do feel that if we run sustain; we lose damage. if we run damage; we are squeezy.

 

as per single target, there are really skills that does that vs ae.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > The meaning of what p2w is has been lost with the new age of gamers. This game is indeed, p2w as it is currently. Regardless of if a player can win with a core class or not. When stacked side by side with a elite specialization if there is a marginal difference in power/effectiveness then that is the definition of p2w.

> > >

> > > Anet knows this, which is why class balance is in its current state where PoF classes are powercreeped. Same with HoT classes when they first rolled out.

> > >

> > > Current model as is. New expansion (Powercreep classes) -> Odd balance decisions to act as if there doing something with the feedback -> New expansion comes(Nerf previous expansion classes, powercreep the new ones).

> > >

> > > Hell look at scourge on beta weekend when servers were running it in mass. Biggest example of p2w.

> >

> > But does it actually matter?

> >

> > No.

> >

> > For one thing, there is years between expansions. Compared to other games such as the Battlefield series, thats literally the eqvivalent of releasing a new game. No one is squeezing your wallet or turning you upside down to get every last dollar every month just to get you the latest stuff. You maybe call it p2w, I just call it an expansion. PoF is now GW2 the game, not GW2 vanilla version.

> >

> > Secondly, the f2p aspects of GW2 (ie GW2 vanilla) is basicly *shareware*. Its a **demo**. GW2 is *not* a f2p game, it was never intented like that. Its meant to get you interested, to get you hooked. To show you what GW2 **the game** (HoT+PoF) is for free so that you can tell your friends "hey look at this awesome game!" and not have them go *"but I have to pay to test I dont wanna commit to a new MMO bwaaabwaaaabwaaa"*. But with this, you can take them to WvW and show them the game.

> >

> > Thirdly, if you keep insisting its p2w then sure, lets say its p2w then. That only means GW2 is the top 1 game with the best implementation of p2w ever for the customer. I'm sure we'll do ok.

>

> Kind of weird to say it doesn't matter when people reject those who dont run specific builds/setups. Or when you look at things like core engineer and see how boosted the elite specs are interms of potential with the current state of the game. In the end it actually does matter. Maybe it doesnt matter in PvE if you dont care for running the content, but in PvP and WvW, it makes all the difference.

>

> Gw2, top game... ehhh, wouldnt think so. But the mmo market is pretty crap as it is, I would have to say warframe is actually the best implementation of p2w.

 

Yeah so going to the Warframe page... looking at platinum purchases... Oh only $199 and you get 15% better reload speed and 1.2m punch through (wait is that supposed to be penetration?) for a shotgun, a +30m loot radar and +18m enemy radar and something that give you +15% sprint speed and +45% armor.

 

How in the holy kitten is this *any* different from a GW2 expansion... wait in fact the two expansions for GW2 combined is just $50. That's a quarter of a cost of the "best" Warframe premium package - what does the one for $50 which gives you a whooping 1000 platinum actually get you ingame in Warframe, compared to two full GW2 expansions? Just wondering. I dont play Warframe. But I'm guessing those 1000 platinum gets you about as much as 1000 gems. Wait let me take a quick look. 2-3 of the Warframes out of 30ish I can see. That's all. **For the price of two full GW2 expansions**.

 

So yeah. Surely, the "best".

 

The meaning of p2w has been lost indeed.

[archmagus.7249]

Guild wars 2 has always been about how you play more than what you play. Someone with non-meta gear on a core profession could still beat someone with a meta build with meta gear. It largely depends on skill.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > > The meaning of what p2w is has been lost with the new age of gamers. This game is indeed, p2w as it is currently. Regardless of if a player can win with a core class or not. When stacked side by side with a elite specialization if there is a marginal difference in power/effectiveness then that is the definition of p2w.

> > > >

> > > > Anet knows this, which is why class balance is in its current state where PoF classes are powercreeped. Same with HoT classes when they first rolled out.

> > > >

> > > > Current model as is. New expansion (Powercreep classes) -> Odd balance decisions to act as if there doing something with the feedback -> New expansion comes(Nerf previous expansion classes, powercreep the new ones).

> > > >

> > > > Hell look at scourge on beta weekend when servers were running it in mass. Biggest example of p2w.

> > >

> > > But does it actually matter?

> > >

> > > No.

> > >

> > > For one thing, there is years between expansions. Compared to other games such as the Battlefield series, thats literally the eqvivalent of releasing a new game. No one is squeezing your wallet or turning you upside down to get every last dollar every month just to get you the latest stuff. You maybe call it p2w, I just call it an expansion. PoF is now GW2 the game, not GW2 vanilla version.

> > >

> > > Secondly, the f2p aspects of GW2 (ie GW2 vanilla) is basicly *shareware*. Its a **demo**. GW2 is *not* a f2p game, it was never intented like that. Its meant to get you interested, to get you hooked. To show you what GW2 **the game** (HoT+PoF) is for free so that you can tell your friends "hey look at this awesome game!" and not have them go *"but I have to pay to test I dont wanna commit to a new MMO bwaaabwaaaabwaaa"*. But with this, you can take them to WvW and show them the game.

> > >

> > > Thirdly, if you keep insisting its p2w then sure, lets say its p2w then. That only means GW2 is the top 1 game with the best implementation of p2w ever for the customer. I'm sure we'll do ok.

> >

> > Kind of weird to say it doesn't matter when people reject those who dont run specific builds/setups. Or when you look at things like core engineer and see how boosted the elite specs are interms of potential with the current state of the game. In the end it actually does matter. Maybe it doesnt matter in PvE if you dont care for running the content, but in PvP and WvW, it makes all the difference.

> >

> > Gw2, top game... ehhh, wouldnt think so. But the mmo market is pretty crap as it is, I would have to say warframe is actually the best implementation of p2w.

>

> Yeah so going to the Warframe page... looking at platinum purchases... Oh only $199 and you get 15% better reload speed and 1.2m punch through (wait is that supposed to be penetration?) for a shotgun, a +30m loot radar and +18m enemy radar and something that give you +15% sprint speed and +45% armor.

>

> How in the holy kitten is this *any* different from a GW2 expansion... wait in fact the two expansions for GW2 combined is just $50. That's a quarter of a cost of the "best" Warframe premium package - what does the one for $50 which gives you a whooping 1000 platinum actually get you ingame in Warframe, compared to two full GW2 expansions? Just wondering. I dont play Warframe. But I'm guessing those 1000 platinum gets you about as much as 1000 gems. Wait let me take a quick look. 2-3 of the Warframes out of 30ish I can see. That's all. **For the price of two full GW2 expansions**.

>

> So yeah. Surely, the "best".

>

> The meaning of p2w has been lost indeed.

 

Ummm... have you really ever played the game?

1) No one really buys platinum unless they get a ingame code that reduces platinum purchases by 50% or more (75% being the highest). Which you have a chance everyday to receive.

2) The trading market in the game allows you to purchase Prime parts to build a evolved version of your warframe. (Can be anywhere from 7 platinum->600 depending on how rare or if its still obtainable through other methods) Doesnt include the option of getting donated or trading prime parts for anything else.

3) Prime frames while purchasable, can be obtained for free and/or through trading.

4) Riven and prime mods are the better mods people would tend to run. What you are looking at is easy to obtain mods by simply doing a few missions in the game. And thats being extremly generous, this are mods you pick up and forget about in a instant because they are so common.

 

 

With warframe, its not required you purchase anything as you can actually earn it all within the game. You can even farm and trade for platinum ingame, similar to Gw2 gemstore but it focuses more on community transactions to do this instead of being a legal goldselling option.

 

If anything at first look, all of what you see is basically a rip off lol. But when you get into the game you will see the true value of what you can obtain with 1000 platinum. Best part is, its optional and only necessary if you are impatient and want to play things instantly. Thats why I say it has the best p2w system.

 

With Gw2 you HAVE to actually pay for that boost.

[Chaba.5410]

> @"Aleen.8561" said:

> On a serious note, this is a b2p game, what have you expected? In most cases such games have expansions that come out once in a while, and you need to buy them for extra content. By the way, if you're a casual player, that doesn't get bored with the regular content, so you don't want to buy expansions, you don't have to be the meta in WvW ;) Leave it to hardcore players that strive for the glory.

 

Good post to bump. **This is a buy to play game.** If you want to continue playing old content, that is your choice. You are not impacted in your ability to play through all the old content if you do not get an expansion - hence not p2w. WvW contains new content (where you end up fighting against expansion specs) and it is unreasonable to expect the ability to play through new content without buying it. The fact that you get access to fight against the new specs in WvW without the expansion means you're being given partial access to new content for free.

[SkyShroud.2865]

Bandwagoning and stacking are also pay to win, you can't escape p2w in any games.

[Israel.7056]

My answer to op is: not entirely. As long as there are paid expansions there will always be some degree of pay to win insofar as the xpac builds are usually more powerful than whatever was already in the game. Compared to most mmos though the cost is very small to stay competitive.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

This would imply that if you bought an expansion that you are guaranteed to win.. but sadly this is not the case. There are some core professions out there that can still easily mop the floor with both HoT and PoF expansion classes. Core rangers for example can still tear apart reapers/scourges, heralds/renegades, dragon hunters/firebrands with ease. Even core mesmers could likely wipe the floor with nearly any class.

 

Where exactly does a Rev fit into this theory on Pay to win? They were introduced in HoT, so in theory, even the basic rev build is likely to win against all other core classes?

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> This would imply that if you bought an expansion that you are guaranteed to win.. but sadly this is not the case. There are some core professions out there that can still easily mop the floor with both HoT and PoF expansion classes. Core rangers for example can still tear apart reapers/scourges, heralds/renegades, dragon hunters/firebrands with ease. Even core mesmers could likely wipe the floor with nearly any class.

>

> Where exactly does a Rev fit into this theory on Pay to win? They were introduced in HoT, so in theory, even the basic rev build is likely to win against all other core classes?

 

I am sure he is not referring to skill but rather by design. Likewise, if is 1v1, mirage will beat your core mesmer by design.

 

When people discuss about p2w, is always by design, nothing to do with individual standards.

[RangerThings.9810]

I am the Ranger you /w about this. That “fight” was just me running, juking, and somehow surviving that 5v1. It was luck.

 

I’m not sure which one you were, but I thought you were the core thief. Many well played, zerked-to-the-gills core thief have embarrassed me in the past. Druid is strong but most our builds either can’t kill anything, or have simple counter tactics.

[LaGranse.8652]

Not sure why people use the core warrior-spellbreaker comparison here. Sure spellbreaker deals a bit better with outnumbered fights cause of full counter procs however in a 1v1 a core warrior is much much scarier.