dDuff.3860 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"Noha.3749" said: > DE Thief = 0 AoE and teamfight, but incredible single target burst. > Did you mean rifle? cuz DE has nice cleave and AoE an any other thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"Noha.3749" said: > "its not fair when a player can down me in a couple of seconds with his incredible single target dmg. Im only capable of downing 5 players fighting on the node if i myself get a good jump-start" > > DE Simply trade any AOE potential for great single target dmg. > They are played as assassins and thrive as it. Necro on the otherhand are gods in "teamfights". > > If you ever played League of legends, just compare it to laning when the enemy got a jungler like "Shaco or Nocturne" and similar champs. > They are good for racking up kills and looking fancy and all, but they are kinda bad in larger fights . You generally dont run solo or push out too much alone vs them. > All you have to do is play safe and do what YOU do best. Slaughter everyone with your kitten AOE dmg and cc, and have mates followup on that glassy ganker when he tries something. > > DE Thief = 0 AoE and teamfight, but incredible single target burst. > Necro = Incredible AoE and teamfight, but easily kited and ganked if alone. > > Rifle is played with S/P which is insane cleave. Probably on the same level as reaper, Holo and core guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > "its not fair when a player can down me in a couple of seconds with his incredible single target dmg. Im only capable of downing 5 players fighting on the node if i myself get a good jump-start" > > > > DE Simply trade any AOE potential for great single target dmg. > > They are played as assassins and thrive as it. Necro on the otherhand are gods in "teamfights". > > > > If you ever played League of legends, just compare it to laning when the enemy got a jungler like "Shaco or Nocturne" and similar champs. > > They are good for racking up kills and looking fancy and all, but they are kinda bad in larger fights . You generally dont run solo or push out too much alone vs them. > > All you have to do is play safe and do what YOU do best. Slaughter everyone with your kitten AOE dmg and cc, and have mates followup on that glassy ganker when he tries something. > > > > DE Thief = 0 AoE and teamfight, but incredible single target burst. > > Necro = Incredible AoE and teamfight, but easily kited and ganked if alone. > > > > > > Rifle is played with S/P which is insane cleave. Probably on the same level as reaper, Holo and core guard. Huh? Pistol whip is only melee range - 130 2 targets. I wouldn't call that insane Or anywhere near to holo/reaper. Good for spamming on a downed person alone I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > "its not fair when a player can down me in a couple of seconds with his incredible single target dmg. Im only capable of downing 5 players fighting on the node if i myself get a good jump-start" > > > > DE Simply trade any AOE potential for great single target dmg. > > They are played as assassins and thrive as it. Necro on the otherhand are gods in "teamfights". > > > > If you ever played League of legends, just compare it to laning when the enemy got a jungler like "Shaco or Nocturne" and similar champs. > > They are good for racking up kills and looking fancy and all, but they are kinda bad in larger fights . You generally dont run solo or push out too much alone vs them. > > All you have to do is play safe and do what YOU do best. Slaughter everyone with your kitten AOE dmg and cc, and have mates followup on that glassy ganker when he tries something. > > > > DE Thief = 0 AoE and teamfight, but incredible single target burst. > > Necro = Incredible AoE and teamfight, but easily kited and ganked if alone. > > > > > > Rifle is played with S/P which is insane cleave. Probably on the same level as reaper, Holo and core guard. oh true will have to try... due to these recent DE threads I started to use one but I got rifle and d/p for the backstab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noha.3749 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 s/p is good but its very situational. You might get some bursts in here and there, but no, the cleave is not close to reaper or holo. cant speak for guardian since i havent played it in years.. Dagger mainhand is way better for pure damage. S/d for prolonged fights. S/P for awkward in-out stationary burst (not counting blink from 2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dDuff.3860 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > Huh? Pistol whip is only melee range - 130 2 targets. I wouldn't call that insane Or anywhere near to holo/reaper. Good for spamming on a downed person alone I guess. 3 targets up to 10k in 1 ability which is also evade. Speaking of cleave it is comparable to one from holo, and different to reaper's one. You're comparing spammable ability to a damage rotation of holosmith and reaper which isn't a way to really compare things. I'm stating that as S/P main: PW cleave is enough to prevent 2 rezzers res 1 body (if both without res traits) — keep in mind that you stun with #3. And you can sustain that cleave for more than 7 seconds if you're full cd+ini. (which is more than enough to down ressers or make them play defensive, so preventing res) But yeah, beside PBAoE, deadeye has no way to control zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dDuff.3860 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"Noha.3749" said: > @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 > > s/p is good but its very situational. You might get some bursts in here and there, but no, the cleave is not close to reaper or holo. cant speak for guardian since i havent played it in years.. > Dagger mainhand is way better for pure damage. S/d for prolonged fights. S/P for awkward in-out stationary burst (not counting blink from 2) D/p is more situational, it actually require thief to actually have a team contesting nodes. While sword mainhand provides strong opportunity and actual impact on map. It lets you choose what game you play, while with dagger you're have to be roamer. And no, dagger mainhand isn't way better for pure damage in pvp. It may be it for AA chain under quickness. But spamming PW with quickness gives best cleave DPS from all sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noha.3749 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"dDuff.3860" said: > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 > > > > s/p is good but its very situational. You might get some bursts in here and there, but no, the cleave is not close to reaper or holo. cant speak for guardian since i havent played it in years.. > > Dagger mainhand is way better for pure damage. S/d for prolonged fights. S/P for awkward in-out stationary burst (not counting blink from 2) > > And no, dagger mainhand isn't way better for pure damage in pvp. It may be it for AA chain under quickness. But spamming PW with quickness gives best cleave DPS from all sets. I must disagree, good thing we all think differently! Pistolwhip costs to much imo and roots you during the animation. The damage cone is also relatively small, like mesmers Sword (is it 2 or 3?). Its a niché weaponset which works decent as a followup to CCd enemies in larger fights, but id rather just land a reliable backstab, apply blinds and have great engage/disengage. I main engineer and thief second and must say that the holosmiths "rotation" is faster, wider and hits 5 targets so it clearly outdamages a s/p thief in "teamfights" if we are counting the AoE alone. A S/P thief will jump in with 2, pop some CDs and spam a few pistolwhips(rly not smart to spam though) and jump back out. Now you are starving for innitiative and cant followup on anything for several seconds because thief sword AA is meh. Guess thats my experience and view on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dDuff.3860 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"Noha.3749" said: > > @"dDuff.3860" said: > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 > > > > > > s/p is good but its very situational. You might get some bursts in here and there, but no, the cleave is not close to reaper or holo. cant speak for guardian since i havent played it in years.. > > > Dagger mainhand is way better for pure damage. S/d for prolonged fights. S/P for awkward in-out stationary burst (not counting blink from 2) > > > > And no, dagger mainhand isn't way better for pure damage in pvp. It may be it for AA chain under quickness. But spamming PW with quickness gives best cleave DPS from all sets. > > I must disagree, good thing we all think differently! > Pistolwhip costs to much imo and roots you during the animation. The damage cone is also relatively small, like mesmers Sword (is it 2 or 3?). > Its a niché weaponset which works decent as a followup to CCd enemies in larger fights, but id rather just land a reliable backstab, apply blinds and have great engage/disengage. > > I main engineer and thief second and must say that the holosmiths "rotation" is faster, wider and hits 5 targets so it clearly outdamages a s/p thief in "teamfights" if we are counting the AoE alone. > A S/P thief will jump in with 2, pop some CDs and spam a few pistolwhips(rly not smart to spam though) and jump back out. Now you are starving for innitiative and cant followup on anything for several seconds because thief sword AA is meh. > > Guess thats my experience and view on the matter. Two points: Deadeye can't land reliable backstab. Mercy on deadeye builds is a must have. Which opens a lot space for reengagement. So: A S/p thief will jump you in mark-2-3 burst, react to your reaction (with another pistolwhip of shadow return), land you immob, dodge+weaponswap into DJ. At this point 3 second burst will give you about 20-25k damage which you can't avoid if you didn't dodge mark+#2 from sword (or negate damage from quickness PW with endure pain, elixir S, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noha.3749 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 @dDuff.3860 I just think its toprated right now because players arent used to fighting it. Once the community adapts to the meta they will see its flaws. Most of the damage is from the rifle anyway, if you are talking about the metabuild it clearly states that S/P is mostly for cleaving downed enemies and defending against melee aggressors. So to keep things short; Rifle is really in a great spot right now for what its supposed to do. S/P compliments its less mobile playstyle with some AoE Cleave and defense with the channeled evade. The weaponset used as a second to rifle will probably come and go depenting on what famous streamers/sPvP players is using for the moment. I think they are stepping away from dagger mainhand for the sole reason that thiefs have for the most part been using dagger mainhand since release and just want something new. Its strong, but i believe it will just last a while before thief mains go back to same old d/p build, even as deadeyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Anet has to implement a fix to this stuff. It's like when a person is killed by DJ the game alt tabs and opens the PvP forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zawn.9647 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > ~Balanced as kitten~ > do you want to post this video now everytime you see a thread about a deadeye, for people to explain you again and again that you failed in getting yourself into such a situation to begin with? i love how people blindly defend the imbalanced classes... its not his fault when a player pops out of stealth and knocks you down + kills you in less then 2 seconds - no game should require superb reaction speed to survive. let alone if the other class doest need to take a "high risk high reward" because the deadeye can just stealth and go away afterwards - i dont care if Legendary Players can dodge a 1s burst window... if 95% of the player base cant, its broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dDuff.3860 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"Zawn.9647" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > ~Balanced as kitten~ > > do you want to post this video now everytime you see a thread about a deadeye, for people to explain you again and again that you failed in getting yourself into such a situation to begin with? > > i love how people blindly defend the imbalanced classes... its not his fault when a player pops out of stealth and knocks you down + kills you in less then 2 seconds - no game should require superb reaction speed to survive. let alone if the other class doest need to take a "high risk high reward" because the deadeye can just stealth and go away afterwards - i dont care if Legendary Players can dodge a 1s burst window... if 95% of the player base cant, its broken Caugh, caugh... Prime Light Beam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > a one malice backstab will hit more and is alot harder to avoid than a one malice deaths judgement. can you tell me why you complain about the deaths judgement, not about the malicious backstab instead ? if you get hit for 13-15k by a one malice deaths judgement that would probably be a 17-20k one malice backstab (didnt do math now just rough experience from playing alot with both). Harder to avoid? 1. It is blockable. 2. It requires melee range in a game that shits aoe. 3. Deadeye has one less gap closer than regular thief due to the mark. 4. How do you stack malice as a dagger thief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorum.9506 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > ~Balanced as kitten~ > > > do you want to post this video now everytime you see a thread about a deadeye, for people to explain you again and again that you failed in getting yourself into such a situation to begin with? > > > > <1s kill from stealth and range on 2.5k armor and 21k hp is not even remotely balanced =D > > i see you made a terrible tactical decision and got rewarded with a decap, how is that balanced? > in conquest the main underlying decision you have to make is at wich node you are, with how many people and wich builds - this is what the mode is about and what wins the mode. if you fail at this base tactical level how many options should you be granted to even this fail out? can the deadeye then aswell have more options to kill you in 1 vs 2 when you are actually with your babysitter as you should? like more boonrips and unblockables? because going for you while your babysitter is with you is basically the same tactical fail you just did up there. Thank you for your input forum hero. You see, sometimes I get saddled with people like you in my matches during placements week. For all I know, you could've been one of the two core guards I had on my team. They (you?) both pushed far at the start where the deadeye killed them. I had not yet seen the deadeye and didn't know the enemy had one, we had just wiped mid. On respawn my options were to feed mid, or take home. I picked home. I then discovered the enemy had a deadeye when he nuked me from stealth in <1s with 0 chance for counterplay. No point breaking the knockdown because he immobilized me too. Does that rotation make a little more sense forum warrior? Does that appease your tactical brilliance, Clicker of the Mouse? > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > ~Balanced as kitten~ > > > > do you want to post this video now everytime you see a thread about a deadeye, for people to explain you again and again that you failed in getting yourself into such a situation to begin with? > > > > > > <1s kill from stealth and range on 2.5k armor and 21k hp is not even remotely balanced =D > > > > i see you made a terrible tactical decision and got rewarded with a decap, how is that balanced? > > in conquest the main underlying decision you have to make is at wich node you are, with how many people and wich builds - this is what the mode is about and what wins the mode. if you fail at this base tactical level how many options should you be granted to even this fail out? can the deadeye then aswell have more options to kill you in 1 vs 2 when you are actually with your babysitter as you should? like more boonrips and unblockables? because going for you while your babysitter is with you is basically the same tactical fail you just did up there. > > I honestly wouldnt bother.. Silver ranked players could see his mistakes and lack of counter play so just take it as a bronzie complaint You literally play a d/d tempest in ranked lmao. Talk to me when you get your title ...oh wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > ~Balanced as kitten~ > > > > do you want to post this video now everytime you see a thread about a deadeye, for people to explain you again and again that you failed in getting yourself into such a situation to begin with? > > > > > > <1s kill from stealth and range on 2.5k armor and 21k hp is not even remotely balanced =D > > > > i see you made a terrible tactical decision and got rewarded with a decap, how is that balanced? > > in conquest the main underlying decision you have to make is at wich node you are, with how many people and wich builds - this is what the mode is about and what wins the mode. if you fail at this base tactical level how many options should you be granted to even this fail out? can the deadeye then aswell have more options to kill you in 1 vs 2 when you are actually with your babysitter as you should? like more boonrips and unblockables? because going for you while your babysitter is with you is basically the same tactical fail you just did up there. > > Thank you for your input forum hero. You see, sometimes I get saddled with people like you in my matches during placements week. For all I know, you could've been one of the two core guards I had on my team. They (you?) both pushed far at the start where the deadeye killed them. I had not yet seen the deadeye and didn't know the enemy had one, we had just wiped mid. > > On respawn my options were to feed mid, or take home. I picked home. I then discovered the enemy had a deadeye when he nuked me from stealth in <1s with 0 chance for counterplay. No point breaking the knockdown because he immobilized me too. > > Does that rotation make a little more sense forum warrior? Does that appease your tactical brilliance, Clicker of the Mouse? > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > > ~Balanced as kitten~ > > > > > do you want to post this video now everytime you see a thread about a deadeye, for people to explain you again and again that you failed in getting yourself into such a situation to begin with? > > > > > > > > <1s kill from stealth and range on 2.5k armor and 21k hp is not even remotely balanced =D > > > > > > i see you made a terrible tactical decision and got rewarded with a decap, how is that balanced? > > > in conquest the main underlying decision you have to make is at wich node you are, with how many people and wich builds - this is what the mode is about and what wins the mode. if you fail at this base tactical level how many options should you be granted to even this fail out? can the deadeye then aswell have more options to kill you in 1 vs 2 when you are actually with your babysitter as you should? like more boonrips and unblockables? because going for you while your babysitter is with you is basically the same tactical fail you just did up there. > > > > I honestly wouldnt bother.. Silver ranked players could see his mistakes and lack of counter play so just take it as a bronzie complaint > > You literally play a d/d tempest in ranked lmao. Talk to me when you get your title > > ...oh wait I have no care for rank... and I wont endulge you with my titles either. This is your issue, not mine. You acting tough and talkin smack just makes this even funnier especially since my inferior D/D tempest can apparently handle this better than your superior skills... people offered you help already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"Razor.6392" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > a one malice backstab will hit more and is alot harder to avoid than a one malice deaths judgement. can you tell me why you complain about the deaths judgement, not about the malicious backstab instead ? if you get hit for 13-15k by a one malice deaths judgement that would probably be a 17-20k one malice backstab (didnt do math now just rough experience from playing alot with both). > > Harder to avoid? > > 1. It is blockable. > 2. It requires melee range in a game that kitten aoe. > 3. Deadeye has one less gap closer than regular thief due to the mark. > 4. How do you stack malice as a dagger thief? 1.blockable helps you only if the skill had an actual tell to the skill. or do you have 100% block uptime? wich is the main reason the backstab is stronger, the skill itself has 0 tell, nothing you can react to. you may predict it sure, but DJ you can just react to avoid. 2.melee range means its harder for the thief to apply not for you to avoid 3.also just a matter on the thief part 4.OP is about starting right with a DJ and then another and another etc. starting you have same malice on each. stacking malice with rifle can be countered with reflects wich are very abundand. > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > ~Balanced as kitten~ > > > > do you want to post this video now everytime you see a thread about a deadeye, for people to explain you again and again that you failed in getting yourself into such a situation to begin with? > > > > > > <1s kill from stealth and range on 2.5k armor and 21k hp is not even remotely balanced =D > > > > i see you made a terrible tactical decision and got rewarded with a decap, how is that balanced? > > in conquest the main underlying decision you have to make is at wich node you are, with how many people and wich builds - this is what the mode is about and what wins the mode. if you fail at this base tactical level how many options should you be granted to even this fail out? can the deadeye then aswell have more options to kill you in 1 vs 2 when you are actually with your babysitter as you should? like more boonrips and unblockables? because going for you while your babysitter is with you is basically the same tactical fail you just did up there. > > Thank you for your input forum hero. You see, sometimes I get saddled with people like you in my matches during placements week. For all I know, you could've been one of the two core guards I had on my team. They (you?) both pushed far at the start where the deadeye killed them. I had not yet seen the deadeye and didn't know the enemy had one, we had just wiped mid. > > On respawn my options were to feed mid, or take home. I picked home. I then discovered the enemy had a deadeye when he nuked me from stealth in <1s with 0 chance for counterplay. No point breaking the knockdown because he immobilized me too. > > Does that rotation make a little more sense forum warrior? Does that appease your tactical brilliance, Clicker of the Mouse? > no it doesnt. do you rub your mouse? and if there is something in that what the DE did is broken, its not DJ. its that stealth hides binding shadows, because thats the first thing that did hit you to break his stealth so you didnt see any animation till that knockdown+immob. for the deadeye itself there is a slow red stream of smoke going to the target seeing that you could avoid all of that with 1 dodge on reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorum.9506 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > a one malice backstab will hit more and is alot harder to avoid than a one malice deaths judgement. can you tell me why you complain about the deaths judgement, not about the malicious backstab instead ? if you get hit for 13-15k by a one malice deaths judgement that would probably be a 17-20k one malice backstab (didnt do math now just rough experience from playing alot with both). > > > > Harder to avoid? > > > > 1. It is blockable. > > 2. It requires melee range in a game that kitten aoe. > > 3. Deadeye has one less gap closer than regular thief due to the mark. > > 4. How do you stack malice as a dagger thief? > > blockable helps you only if the skill had an actual tell to the skill. or do you have 100% block uptime? wich is the main reason the backstab is stronger, the skill itself has 0 tell, nothing you can react to. you may predict it sure, but DJ you can just react to avoid. > melee range means its harder for the thief to apply not for you to avoid > also just a matter on the thief part > OP is about starting right with a DJ and then another and another etc. starting you have same malice on each. stacking malice with rifle can be countered with reflects wich are ver abundand. > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > > ~Balanced as kitten~ > > > > > do you want to post this video now everytime you see a thread about a deadeye, for people to explain you again and again that you failed in getting yourself into such a situation to begin with? > > > > > > > > <1s kill from stealth and range on 2.5k armor and 21k hp is not even remotely balanced =D > > > > > > i see you made a terrible tactical decision and got rewarded with a decap, how is that balanced? > > > in conquest the main underlying decision you have to make is at wich node you are, with how many people and wich builds - this is what the mode is about and what wins the mode. if you fail at this base tactical level how many options should you be granted to even this fail out? can the deadeye then aswell have more options to kill you in 1 vs 2 when you are actually with your babysitter as you should? like more boonrips and unblockables? because going for you while your babysitter is with you is basically the same tactical fail you just did up there. > > > > Thank you for your input forum hero. You see, sometimes I get saddled with people like you in my matches during placements week. For all I know, you could've been one of the two core guards I had on my team. They (you?) both pushed far at the start where the deadeye killed them. I had not yet seen the deadeye and didn't know the enemy had one, we had just wiped mid. > > > > On respawn my options were to feed mid, or take home. I picked home. I then discovered the enemy had a deadeye when he nuked me from stealth in <1s with 0 chance for counterplay. No point breaking the knockdown because he immobilized me too. > > > > Does that rotation make a little more sense forum warrior? Does that appease your tactical brilliance, Clicker of the Mouse? > > > > no it doesnt. > > do you rub your mouse? > I prefer to smoosh my face on it personally I can see glass toons getting nuked by other glass toons, but <1s on a bruiser from range and stealth is absolutely bullshit. You can say what you want man, but feeding mid is a shit play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dDuff.3860 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > a one malice backstab will hit more and is alot harder to avoid than a one malice deaths judgement. can you tell me why you complain about the deaths judgement, not about the malicious backstab instead ? if you get hit for 13-15k by a one malice deaths judgement that would probably be a 17-20k one malice backstab (didnt do math now just rough experience from playing alot with both). > > > > > > Harder to avoid? > > > > > > 1. It is blockable. > > > 2. It requires melee range in a game that kitten aoe. > > > 3. Deadeye has one less gap closer than regular thief due to the mark. > > > 4. How do you stack malice as a dagger thief? > > > > blockable helps you only if the skill had an actual tell to the skill. or do you have 100% block uptime? wich is the main reason the backstab is stronger, the skill itself has 0 tell, nothing you can react to. you may predict it sure, but DJ you can just react to avoid. > > melee range means its harder for the thief to apply not for you to avoid > > also just a matter on the thief part > > OP is about starting right with a DJ and then another and another etc. starting you have same malice on each. stacking malice with rifle can be countered with reflects wich are ver abundand. > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > > > ~Balanced as kitten~ > > > > > > do you want to post this video now everytime you see a thread about a deadeye, for people to explain you again and again that you failed in getting yourself into such a situation to begin with? > > > > > > > > > > <1s kill from stealth and range on 2.5k armor and 21k hp is not even remotely balanced =D > > > > > > > > i see you made a terrible tactical decision and got rewarded with a decap, how is that balanced? > > > > in conquest the main underlying decision you have to make is at wich node you are, with how many people and wich builds - this is what the mode is about and what wins the mode. if you fail at this base tactical level how many options should you be granted to even this fail out? can the deadeye then aswell have more options to kill you in 1 vs 2 when you are actually with your babysitter as you should? like more boonrips and unblockables? because going for you while your babysitter is with you is basically the same tactical fail you just did up there. > > > > > > Thank you for your input forum hero. You see, sometimes I get saddled with people like you in my matches during placements week. For all I know, you could've been one of the two core guards I had on my team. They (you?) both pushed far at the start where the deadeye killed them. I had not yet seen the deadeye and didn't know the enemy had one, we had just wiped mid. > > > > > > On respawn my options were to feed mid, or take home. I picked home. I then discovered the enemy had a deadeye when he nuked me from stealth in <1s with 0 chance for counterplay. No point breaking the knockdown because he immobilized me too. > > > > > > Does that rotation make a little more sense forum warrior? Does that appease your tactical brilliance, Clicker of the Mouse? > > > > > > > no it doesnt. > > > > do you rub your mouse? > > > > I prefer to smoosh my face on it personally > > I can see glass toons getting nuked by other glass toons, but <1s on a bruiser from range and stealth is absolutely kitten. You can say what you want man, but feeding mid is a kitten play You can't burst in less than 1 sec. Mark cast time 1/2 (you get SFX when you marked), then DJ with SFX with ~0.33sec cast with quickness and aftercasts (this won't give you 16k DJs, because of 1 malice), then you procceed to spam 2-3 which also takes at least 1-2 seconds (even with quickness) to deal considerable damage. Anyone with at least half brain can react to it with dodge or defensive plays. If you have no defensive capabilities or dodges. Well, thats it, you've been caught, like you would vs rev/burst mes/killshot war, lul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dDuff.3860 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > a one malice backstab will hit more and is alot harder to avoid than a one malice deaths judgement. can you tell me why you complain about the deaths judgement, not about the malicious backstab instead ? if you get hit for 13-15k by a one malice deaths judgement that would probably be a 17-20k one malice backstab (didnt do math now just rough experience from playing alot with both). > > > > > > Harder to avoid? > > > > > > 1. It is blockable. > > > 2. It requires melee range in a game that kitten aoe. > > > 3. Deadeye has one less gap closer than regular thief due to the mark. > > > 4. How do you stack malice as a dagger thief? > > > > blockable helps you only if the skill had an actual tell to the skill. or do you have 100% block uptime? wich is the main reason the backstab is stronger, the skill itself has 0 tell, nothing you can react to. you may predict it sure, but DJ you can just react to avoid. > > melee range means its harder for the thief to apply not for you to avoid > > also just a matter on the thief part > > OP is about starting right with a DJ and then another and another etc. starting you have same malice on each. stacking malice with rifle can be countered with reflects wich are ver abundand. > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > > > > > ~Balanced as kitten~ > > > > > > do you want to post this video now everytime you see a thread about a deadeye, for people to explain you again and again that you failed in getting yourself into such a situation to begin with? > > > > > > > > > > <1s kill from stealth and range on 2.5k armor and 21k hp is not even remotely balanced =D > > > > > > > > i see you made a terrible tactical decision and got rewarded with a decap, how is that balanced? > > > > in conquest the main underlying decision you have to make is at wich node you are, with how many people and wich builds - this is what the mode is about and what wins the mode. if you fail at this base tactical level how many options should you be granted to even this fail out? can the deadeye then aswell have more options to kill you in 1 vs 2 when you are actually with your babysitter as you should? like more boonrips and unblockables? because going for you while your babysitter is with you is basically the same tactical fail you just did up there. > > > > > > Thank you for your input forum hero. You see, sometimes I get saddled with people like you in my matches during placements week. For all I know, you could've been one of the two core guards I had on my team. They (you?) both pushed far at the start where the deadeye killed them. I had not yet seen the deadeye and didn't know the enemy had one, we had just wiped mid. > > > > > > On respawn my options were to feed mid, or take home. I picked home. I then discovered the enemy had a deadeye when he nuked me from stealth in <1s with 0 chance for counterplay. No point breaking the knockdown because he immobilized me too. > > > > > > Does that rotation make a little more sense forum warrior? Does that appease your tactical brilliance, Clicker of the Mouse? > > > > > > > no it doesnt. > > > > do you rub your mouse? > > > > I prefer to smoosh my face on it personally > > I can see glass toons getting nuked by other glass toons, but <1s on a bruiser from range and stealth is absolutely kitten. You can say what you want man, but feeding mid is a kitten play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"dDuff.3860" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > @"Leafstorm.1349" said: > > > who can kill DE? engi, ranger, most wars, (at the least DE wont kill these), and a good mirage or a good rev (im not good but i can do it) > > > > This is BS. Only mirage is an issue for deadeye. are you talking about wvw? I forgot another DE is also problem for DE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > > ~Balanced as kitten~ You keep posting this video as proof that DE is busted, but seem to consistently forget that a reaper standing alone on a point with no life force and no spectral armor slotted is a free meal for any thief running a fairly cohesive build, much more so a deadeye. Making a bad play is not a free ticket to blame the opposing side for being overpowered. Thief was not and probably never will be necro's fight. If you want to talk numbers rather than a shot of a reaper being punished for an error in situational awareness, we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iKeostuKen.2738 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Problem with the video is not really that they were unprepared, but how fast the damage was delivered in such a way that required not much build up. Kind of defeats the point of malice if they can open up with so much damage in the first place while also being able to CC their opponent without much thought. Could other classes counter it? Sure. If they have defensive invulns that auto themselves, which this game should move away from. Doesnt really change how poorly designed the class is for PvP in terms of balance. But guess thats the direction the community would rather keep pushing the game. Burst damage with little need for might or thought, let the build play for ya and abuse the powercreep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said: > Problem with the video is not really that they were unprepared, but how fast the damage was delivered in such a way that required not much build up. Kind of defeats the point of malice if they can open up with so much damage in the first place while also being able to CC their opponent without much thought. Could other classes counter it? Sure. If they have defensive invulns that auto themselves, which this game should move away from. > > Doesnt really change how poorly designed the class is for PvP in terms of balance. But guess thats the direction the community would rather keep pushing the game. Burst damage with little need for might or thought, let the build play for ya and abuse the powercreep. EDIT: I upped the quality to look closer and that reaper not only _has plague signet on their bar and refused to touch it until they were dead_ , but was aware that thief was a deadeye and admonished their team about it. look closely at how long it takes for reaper to decide it would be a good idea to break stun. And they have an overlay that -told them plainly that it was off cooldown, to boot.- I don't really have anything else to say. pressing plague signet immediately would have fixed your issue and opened the thief up to being oneshot, put weakness on them, and immobed them. if you had axe on swap that could have easily been a thief death. But nah lets blame the deadeye for being too strong while freecasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iKeostuKen.2738 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said: > > Problem with the video is not really that they were unprepared, but how fast the damage was delivered in such a way that required not much build up. Kind of defeats the point of malice if they can open up with so much damage in the first place while also being able to CC their opponent without much thought. Could other classes counter it? Sure. If they have defensive invulns that auto themselves, which this game should move away from. > > > > Doesnt really change how poorly designed the class is for PvP in terms of balance. But guess thats the direction the community would rather keep pushing the game. Burst damage with little need for might or thought, let the build play for ya and abuse the powercreep. > > He couldn't react because he was knocked down with binding shadow and did not have a stun break on his bar. He tried to put flesh wurm up on the point itself, which would not have helped him in that situation anyway. A stunbreak followed by a dodge would have mitigated most of that burst and opened the thief up to counterpressure, which by now should be something most low mob specs should be twitchy to do if they're expecting to live against surprise shatter mesmers. > . > This isn't a matter of not having enough time to respond, though again, I'm fine with talking adjustments to numbers if there's sufficient proof. But this situation is is similar to encountering a shatter mesmer, with the difference being shatter mesmers unload on you faster, and this reaper was not prepared for any surprise case. either way. He was sleepwalking and thought that DE was miles away. His kit was not ready for any setup that began with a hard cc. To me it seems to have happened instantly, from being marked to knocked down to receiving the 10k initial burst. Even with a stunbreak into a dodge they would have still taken that damage since just pressing V doesnt always make you invuln on the press, damage still flows through depending on how the server is registering the information. Lets not even mention that dodging is impossible when your immobilized =/ Only chance they would have had is if they were running soul reaping and popped f1, then that that would be deleted with the excessive low risk burst thats being pushed out. Then into the stealth reset and repeat. Its both not having enough time to respond and skills that are just doing to much interms of condition application that eliminates a lot of counterplay from something that doesn't have passive sustain traits, that this game needs to do away with. Power mesmer would have been a better encounter, just from not being heavily CCed with burst and more tells. But your right about the kit not being useful for the encounter. A few spectrals maybe could have bought more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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