Hope reaper doesn't get nerfed

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> [https://ibb.co/jTPrCK](https://ibb.co/jTPrCK "https://ibb.co/jTPrCK")

> Just few seconds ago while roaming on my revenant and found reaper, dropped him to 25% with my main burst, I used staff3 to block immediately after to kite.

> He entered shroud and this happened in 1-2 seconds before I could actually react and doing anything, I didn't even have the time to press glint heal.

>

> Yeah he downed me in 1-2 seconds by spamming shroud skills. Yeah this profession takes definetely skill.

 

Just want to point something out.

* You took half the hits from [soul Spiral](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soul_Spiral) which with quickness takes ~1s

* You got hit by all 10 hits of [Deaths Charge](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Charge) this ability is classed as a leap and **is not affected by quickness at all**. The only way to get hit by all of them is if they are stood inside your hitbox meaning you were standing ***completely still** for ~1.3s.

* Two full auto attack chains takes just over 3s.

 

Look if you are going to try and make a point don't exaggerate or lie. Nobody will even consider your argument.

This screenshot along with this post is more of a reflection of you and your personal skill level than anything else.

 

> @"LinhZeri.6412" said:

> Im just curious why the skills themselves not changed with increased speed and put all of the viability in 1 single grandmaster skill to make the other two completely irreleavent.. its quite odd balancing if you ask me. Blighters boon needs help terribly bad.

 

The previous iteration of the trait rendered half of its effect useless if you could get quickness from anywhere else. There are a lot of way to get the boon. If they changed the skills themselves then every single build would benefit instead of having to make the trait investment and suffer the opportunity cost.

 

Blighters boon also isn't irrelevant. Like at all. In a power reaper build its an incredibly powerful sustain trait, if not the best one.

 

 

[Umut.5471]

For PvE it doesn't need nerf, Necro will always need buffs till it gets on the same DPS level with Mirage, Weaver or Holosmith.

For PvP it's more complicated than simple DPS benchmarks.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> [https://ibb.co/jTPrCK](https://ibb.co/jTPrCK "https://ibb.co/jTPrCK")

> Just few seconds ago while roaming on my revenant and found reaper, dropped him to 25% with my main burst, I used staff3 to block immediately after to kite.

> He entered shroud and this happened in 1-2 seconds before I could actually react and doing anything, I didn't even have the time to press glint heal.

>

> Yeah he downed me in 1-2 seconds by spamming shroud skills. Yeah this profession takes definetely skill.

 

What I deduce from your screen:

You where at around 80% hp on a glass canon build. Since soul spiral ate 6k hp and lesser spinal shiver proc at 50% and only do this much damage on glass players.

As a glass canon, after lesser spinal shiver you'd have between 2k and 3k health left which were eaten by the last hit of soul spiral. This is the moment you were down.

The reaper then just used mindlessly his skills on you until your death and you didn't even tried to retaliate by using your down state skills.

 

Conclusion: the only relevant numbers on your screen are the soul spiral and lesser spinal shiver number. Death charge and auto attack numbers are just here to give people the feeling that reaper attack is fast but in fact isn't since he could have stomped you 2 time instead of using all those skills on you.

 

You just took a 80% - 0% in a few seconds in a fight that was already going for a while and in which the reaper most likely had the time to both build might and inflict vuln on you (spite traitline). You either choose to eat the burst or you were already out of dodge and wasted your dodge/block/invuln abilities on something else. If I analyse what you wrote, it even seem that the reaper baited your block (as well as dodges) and timed it's burst just right, which mean that you were simply outplayed.

 

Edit: The only necromancer's thing that you may blame here is the trait _chill of death_ which is a core trait that basically exist since launch.

[Axl.8924]

Which is exactly what I said. People have done tons of raids with intentionally-bad comps, off-meta comps, and so on. Optimization is not necessary to complete the content. If you balance around PvE number-crunching, you end up with horrible gameplay and imbalanced competitive modes. It's this way in every game.

 

You can get away more or less, but having faster dmg still has faster chance of eliminating a phase.Its also very bad for the game to have huge numbers difference in pve, and extremely unbalanced.Having really small difference between top and bottom is healthier for the game, so unless everyone's dps is nerfed to where reaper is currently, it will be a mess.

 

You also do know around 28k around what it was before was what a support class does right? yet reaper isn't a support class, its a dps class.

 

You were literally just accusing me of not even playing reaper and calling people baddies. That's why I retaliated; you're actually being the toxic person here and don't have the experience or knowledge, or proof of the two to back up what you're saying. I don't care if you're not even good. There's just zero reason to blatantly insult other people, especially if they're not even being belligerent or can't be disproven.

 

Most of them were being disproven by not only me, but others on the forum.I don't want to be hostile, bu i don't want reaper to be gutted.Reaper was gutted for scourge when it came out, and now people want it to be the same dps as a support in a power creep era where everyone does around 34k has better support better sustain better heal and better cc.Does that make sense? I have some experience in pvp because i pvped in 2016-217.In fact:i started for pvp in this game because became excited.

 

So when you badmouth other people for playing a ranger despite giving feedback on the necro, that's okay?

 

It is when that said ranger is really bad and doesn't know how to avoid damage by kiting.He's a ranger he's got more mobility than i and more ranged cc.Rangers are one of the classes that hard counters reapers, yet he probably facetanked the reaper and lost.

 

Scourge is only problematic because it can spam AoE corruption and use weapon/utiltiy skills while also affecting the fight during Sand Shroud,, which tends to also be more AoE corruption and sustain.

 

Like i said not only the aoe spam which yes the radius was too great in pvp, and was holding points too well, but also having defensive and offensive in all one button is way too strong.I think it needed to be separated.Thing is:Anet has a bad habbit of giving too much boon corrupt and not giving us other things to be good at, and then its super overpowered in pvp and we end up being nerfed for it, and god knows it was a bad idea to give us that amount of boon corrupt in a super heavy boon meta.But thats just my opinion.

 

There are always stupid suggestions, but it's pretty obvious reaper does too much burst damage right now, mostly due to the changes to RO. And the VP changes were again just unnecessary. PvE coefficient tweaks would have made a lot more sense. Now there's no purpose to running the Valkyrie Amulet in sPvP (to overcome its nerfed sustain) because VP+DD doesn't even give 100% crit when maxed out, and starts the reaper at a way lower base power measure than before. Or any combination of high-vitality gear configurations for WvW, for that matter.

 

So what really changed here? The PvP consistency was gutted for an unhealthy, un-fun build with reduced build diversity and fewer playable contexts, for a whopping 300 ferocity for raid environments.

 

That's a pretty big tradeoff...

 

Pvp is pretty unfun now.You got instant burst builds ridiculous amount of cc spam and ridiculous mobility with infinite boon spams.I heard that pvp isn't the main focus of gw2 in a video, and it seems like it to me.People are asking for all sorts of things, like more maps, and guild vs guild maps like gw1, and more variety of maps.Those who pvp it would be super unfun if reaper got nerfed so hard and gutted, that it no longer posessed any threat to any class, take away its quickness for instance and dmg, and you end up with a slow moving monster thats no longer threatening.The quickness usually for me ends too quickly to be of use outside of shroud, but its quite nice to have quickness pulse in shroud.

 

So TL;DR nerf scourge's corruption to be normalized with every other necro spec, and then nerf the powercreep damage from the rest of the game which tons of people are already asking for (like reverting EW?). I don't see how this is "impossible" at all.

 

And again, the auto-kick part is a community problem and general raid elistist mentality. As of before PoF's launch, the raiding population is the smallest population in the game - even less so than PvP/WvW. To hold the entire spec hostage in the other modes because of what largely constitutes a player-made problem, caused because of ANet's bad encounter design, is pretty disingenuous to the scope of the issue, and still doesn't justify calling people "baddies," especially if you're not even playing under the same contexts, which have way different rules.

 

Reaper already dealt a ton of burst damage, anyways, and the 300 ferocity isn't changing much in that respect, considering Soul Spiral was already really easy to get to hit for like 20k, which is basically a huge-radious AoE backstab while still having 50%+ damage reduction. That's where the "reaper is easy" comments are coming from. It simply is right now.

 

The 300 ferocity i heard is quite a bit of crit rate.I'm getting crits for like 12-17k if enemies have invuln.Greatsword obviously hits the hardest.

 

There are always stupid suggestions, but it's pretty obvious reaper does too much burst damage right now, mostly due to the changes to RO. And the VP changes were again just unnecessary. PvE coefficient tweaks would have made a lot more sense. Now there's no purpose to running the Valkyrie Amulet in sPvP (to overcome its nerfed sustain) because VP+DD doesn't even give 100% crit when maxed out, and starts the reaper at a way lower base power measure than before. Or any combination of high-vitality gear configurations for WvW, for that matter.

 

So what really changed here? The PvP consistency was gutted for an unhealthy, un-fun build with reduced build diversity and fewer playable contexts, for a whopping 300 ferocity for raid environments.

 

Build issues has been a problem a while, i remember someone complaining about build diversity in the game class wide, and they are right.

Lots of nerfs happened, and some was because of the QQing.

 

What pve coeffiients are you talking about? reaper needed its damage tweaked to reach levels of every other class, becasue it was far below average and was on level with a full support class or lower, at around 27-28k dps.

 

So TL;DR nerf scourge's corruption to be normalized with every other necro spec, and then nerf the powercreep damage from the rest of the game which tons of people are already asking for (like reverting EW?). I don't see how this is "impossible" at all.

 

And again, the auto-kick part is a community problem and general raid elistist mentality. As of before PoF's launch, the raiding population is the smallest population in the game - even less so than PvP/WvW. To hold the entire spec hostage in the other modes because of what largely constitutes a player-made problem, caused because of ANet's bad encounter design, is pretty disingenuous to the scope of the issue, and still doesn't justify calling people "baddies," especially if you're not even playing under the same contexts, which have way different rules.

 

Reaper already dealt a ton of burst damage, anyways, and the 300 ferocity isn't changing much in that respect, considering Soul Spiral was already really easy to get to hit for like 20k, which is basically a huge-radious AoE backstab while still having 50%+ damage reduction. That's where the "reaper is easy" comments are coming from. It simply is right now.

 

They could just easily not touch pve and change how it works for pvp, because i seriously don't want reaper to under perform again.

 

So TL;DR nerf scourge's corruption to be normalized with every other necro spec, and then nerf the powercreep damage from the rest of the game which tons of people are already asking for (like reverting EW?). I don't see how this is "impossible" at all.

 

 

Nerf boon spam? if boons get nerfed, then boon corrupt becomes far less powerful.Far too much boonspam on elites like revenant mesmer druid and firebrand.

 

 

But condition reaper was a problem, and condi builds were problems historically due to the gear combinations and high condi burst damage introduced later on. You could land almost 14k damage bleed ticks (and conditions ignore armor, by the way) in one combo on reaper, with what amounted to around 65k EHP. It's just that with all the damage buffs to power, power reaper is one-shotting people with the same combos (albeit being much squishier), just in a different form of damage, and now, in less time.

 

Condi scourge was a lot worse before with boon corrupt, and condi aoe bombs.reapers at least are in melee range, except their shouts which have a radius.

 

In summary: Don't be a total jerk to people giving their feedback, especially if you're not in a position to talk down to them. It makes you look worse, us as a whole look worse, and removes the validity from anything you're trying to point at.

 

People should come in prepared and understand what they are talking about before asking for nerfs, because blindly asking for nerfs is something that could completely destroy a class.One should ask before asking for nerf:how can i improve versus said class? how do i counter said class?

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > [https://ibb.co/jTPrCK](https://ibb.co/jTPrCK "https://ibb.co/jTPrCK")

> > Just few seconds ago while roaming on my revenant and found reaper, **dropped him to 25% with my main burst**, I used staff3 to block immediately after to kite.

> > He entered shroud **and this happened in 1-2 seconds** before I could actually react and doing anything, I didn't even have the time to press glint heal.

> >

> > **Yeah he downed me in 1-2 seconds by spamming shroud skills**. Yeah this profession takes definetely skill.

> This picture proves you are a bad player (and a liar). The death's charge alone in your face (the numbers clearly state he did it in melee range, which btw. is a waste of ressources) takes about a second not even to mention the 5 soul spiral hits and two whole autoattack rotations.

>

> All you would have to do, was using riposting shadows after he popped shroud to kite him.

>

> Well you couldn't, because all you know about revenant is the oneshot weaponswap into legendswap combo, that ends you up in glint stance. So you clearly misplayed. It's not the reaper's fault, that you play onetrick pony tactics he can punish after you failed.

>

> That 5,8k lesser spinal shivers hit shows you were full glass (berserker or marauder). If you duell a power build while not running some toughness gear you have to use your blocks, dodges and evades properly, which you clearly did not even though you have plenty of them on revenant.

>

> Get good!

>

> You want a simple counter tactic to that quickness reaper build?

> Just spam riposting shadows -> hammer auto -> hammer 2 -> hammer auto -> riposting shadows -> hammer 2 etc.

 

Little trash kid, I dont run hammer rev.

 

I used shiro teleport into him, sword3 into sword4, this guy was already 25% health, he entered shroud, i switched to glint used staff3 for block and staff5 to evade, 1 second later that damage of screenshot happened and i got melted in nearly 2 seconds being crippled and chilled, and bam I was downed.

 

My damage part is above that screen and it's not visible and the fight was probably long 6-7 seconds considering the time i saw him from range than used phase traversal into sword3 and 4.

 

It's just a brainless spammy spec abused by noobs.

 

Tell someone else to get good, pve hero.

[Axl.8924]

Can i close this topic? and how? because i think its being derailed and getting far too much violent commentaries.I made this with the intention of talking about the class balance issues, but its getting out of hand.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> I used shiro teleport into him, sword3 into sword4, this guy was already 25% health, he entered shroud, i switched to glint used staff3 for block and staff5 to evade, 1 second later that damage of screenshot happened and i got melted in nearly 2 seconds being crippled and chilled, and bam I was downed.

>

> My damage part is above that screen and it's not visible and the fight was probably long 6-7 seconds considering the time i saw him from range than used phase traversal into sword3 and 4.

>

> It's just a brainless spammy spec abused by noobs.

>

> Tell someone else to get good, pve hero.

 

It's not because you don't run hammer that you don't have the possibility to run it. Your main error is that you chose to stay close and go for the kill when he entered in shroud instead of backing away with riposting shadow. As you were using staff, you could also have chose to use staff#2 to reduce reaper's damage and prepare to interrupt the next huge attack of the reaper.

 

Now, you've been defeated not by the reaper but by a single trait: _chill of death_.

Were you defeated by someone that spammed it's skills? No more than you were spamming yours since you could have made better choices.

Is the reaper's shroud attack speed the issue here? No, you were defeated by a channeled skill that you could have avoided or interrupt easily.

Is the individual damage of each hits from skills an issue? You were taking between 1k and 2k per hit, which is hardly threatening or OP in the current game.

 

The only real question is whether or not _chill of death_ was ever intended to reach such numbers of damage when they implemented it.

 

On you side, you seem proud to say that using sword#3 into sword#4 you managed to reduce the reaper's health by 75%, so all in all you dealt (if he was a glass canon) 14k damage in around 2 second while being undamageable for 1 and 1/2 seconds. Which mean that had you encountered yourself you would have killed you in 2 seconds thanks to the surprise attack. Being killed by a revenant that used 2 skills without you having the "time to react", would you have complain the same way that revenant is a brainless spammy spec abused by noobs?

[Nimon.7840]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > [https://ibb.co/jTPrCK](https://ibb.co/jTPrCK "https://ibb.co/jTPrCK")

> > > Just few seconds ago while roaming on my revenant and found reaper, **dropped him to 25% with my main burst**, I used staff3 to block immediately after to kite.

> > > He entered shroud **and this happened in 1-2 seconds** before I could actually react and doing anything, I didn't even have the time to press glint heal.

> > >

> > > **Yeah he downed me in 1-2 seconds by spamming shroud skills**. Yeah this profession takes definetely skill.

> > This picture proves you are a bad player (and a liar). The death's charge alone in your face (the numbers clearly state he did it in melee range, which btw. is a waste of ressources) takes about a second not even to mention the 5 soul spiral hits and two whole autoattack rotations.

> >

> > All you would have to do, was using riposting shadows after he popped shroud to kite him.

> >

> > Well you couldn't, because all you know about revenant is the oneshot weaponswap into legendswap combo, that ends you up in glint stance. So you clearly misplayed. It's not the reaper's fault, that you play onetrick pony tactics he can punish after you failed.

> >

> > That 5,8k lesser spinal shivers hit shows you were full glass (berserker or marauder). If you duell a power build while not running some toughness gear you have to use your blocks, dodges and evades properly, which you clearly did not even though you have plenty of them on revenant.

> >

> > Get good!

> >

> > You want a simple counter tactic to that quickness reaper build?

> > Just spam riposting shadows -> hammer auto -> hammer 2 -> hammer auto -> riposting shadows -> hammer 2 etc.

>

> Little trash kid, I dont run hammer rev.

>

> I used shiro teleport into him, sword3 into sword4, this guy was already 25% health, he entered shroud, i switched to glint used staff3 for block and staff5 to evade, 1 second later that damage of screenshot happened and i got melted in nearly 2 seconds being crippled and chilled, and bam I was downed.

>

> My damage part is above that screen and it's not visible and the fight was probably long 6-7 seconds considering the time i saw him from range than used phase traversal into sword3 and 4.

>

> It's just a brainless spammy spec abused by noobs.

>

> Tell someone else to get good, pve hero.

 

U don't have a hammer on rev? LoL

 

Might be one of the few times I really have to agree with @"KrHome.1920" .

 

If you don't have a full set of weapons on you, you are a bad roamer. Get back to PvP where you cannot switch out skills and weapons, depending on what opponent you are going to fight (buff food says a lot about builds).

 

If you are on flint and have the heal ready and you couldn't press it, you are too slow for PvP. Get back to pve then where mobs are more predictable.

 

If you spend everything in offense you shouldn't complain, when you get killed because you don't have any defense left.

 

And clearly you never played reaper yourself. Else you would know exactly, how to counter reaper.

-> kite him -> fight him in open field where he cannot use terrain as defense -> cc him

 

Seems like you did nothing that counters reaper so you really shouldn't complain and learn how the game works.

[Sinful.2165]

Reaper is in a great spot at the moment. Finally. I have zero doubt ANET will kneejerk nerf the spec into oblivion because nubcakes are so used to face tanking reaper and QQ when they die using the same bad gameplay.

 

This really couldn’t be more of a L2P issue for people getting rolled by reapers. Reaper is still HIGHLY susceptible to being CCd and burst down. They have next to nothing in the form of disengage or chase.

 

Compared to warriors with insane sustain and dmg, holo with ridiculous chain CC and dmg, mirage with literally everything, soulbeast stealth surprise insta-down, deadeye near perma stealth teleporting shenanigans etc etc.. it’s hard to call reaper anything but ‘competitive’ now.

[KrHome.1920]

It's alway that same type of player that thinks his build must be able to kill everything or the balance is bad. These guys must have lived under a rock for the last 6 years. GW2 is about counters and has always been. There is no build that can kill everything. GW has always been rock-paper-scissors.

 

If your class has at least one option to counter that one specific build, you have problems to win against, the balance is fine. And revenant has options to counter quickness reaper.

 

"I don't want to use hammer because... reasons" to justify nerfs to other classes is the dumbest and unhealthiest thing someone can state in a balancing thread.

 

And the insults of that guy just show he has mot matured enough yet to play a competitive videogame where you might run into uncomfortable situations and have to adapt.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> It's alway that same type of player that thinks his build must be able to kill everything or the balance is bad. These guys must have lived under a rock for the last 6 years. GW2 is about counters and has always been. There is no build that can kill everything. GW has always been rock-paper-scissors.

>

> If your class has at least one option to counter that one specific build, you have problems to win against, the balance is fine. And revenant has options to counter quickness reaper.

>

> "I don't want to use hammer because... reasons" to justify nerfs to other classes is the dumbest and unhealthiest thing someone can state in a balancing thread.

>

> And the insults of that guy just show he has mot matured enough yet to play a competitive videogame where you might run into uncomfortable situations and have to adapt.

 

He's absolutely in the wrong regarding his mentality, and his post does also reek of ignorance, but there's a big difference between "my build must have advantageous matchups into everything" and "I can overcome the weaker matchups by playing better." To say reaper isn't really binary right now isn't the truth and you know it.

 

Ultimately that's why I stopped playing D/D thief - and why a lot of other thieves have dropped GW2 as a whole depending on the meta; matchups went from "I can win anything if I play well enough" about a year after launch to "I can win most things, though some builds are almost impossible to beat unless they misplay," to "I mathematically can't actually kill a good portion of the existing builds, nor does this weapon set have the tools to defend/disengage to let me pick and choose my fights."

 

Which is why I swapped to reaper to begin with; it was quintessentially a class where I could win against anything if I played well enough, while still packing action unlike a lot of the more passive/immune builds out there.

 

The line is often blurred because many refuse to admit that they may have played a given fight poorly.

But while there is some degree of advantage/disadvantage as far as matchups go, the notions of the magnitude of this strength/weakness is generally pretty overstated. It's why I was killing Daredevils no problem even before all the buffs to reaper, despite daredevil being the "counter."

[KrHome.1920]

Reaper is totally binary and I hate it. I wanted a mobility spec for PoF because Reaper has always been more or less binary (less in the good old 7s SoS times).

 

The thing is we are not talking about PoF release mirage here that had no counters at all. Or a class that has only one counter while countering everything else (which would also be bad in terms of balancing). Of course there should be a balance (who would have thought that) in counters and being able to counter. That's trivial.

 

ANet never tried to make classes capable of doing everything and we have to deal with it. So Reaper ended up being a melee spec with poor range options and so it has to destroy stuff that comes close because the moment that stuff decides to leave melee range the reaper is fucked immediately.

 

**Daredevils:** I kill most of them, but that's just because of the high skill ceiling the spec has and most players will never be able to use the spec to its maximum potential. A daredevil on sindrener level facerolls every reaper even if it is the best reaper in the game. In EU you run into such daredevils two or three times in a month in wvw and it's super frustrating because you can't do anything.

 

And now a bronze revenant player (that has plenty of options to counter) tries to fight a reaper on a sword/staff glass build and is not able to manage to cast infuse light (1/4s casttime!!!!) while he gets shroud bombed, shows up in this subforum and calls for nerfs and that reaper is a noob spec. It's just laughable.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > Reaper isn't braindead.Easy? not really because they are super glassy and have to be carried and run away to not be focused.They don't have much in terms of escape or mobility, and can be killed fairly easy.Good at stomping people who don't know how to play against them, but there is still a lot of switching between modes.

> > >

> >

> > Without taking a side here; saying reaper's not easy is some massive self-cheating you've got going in there. The damage needs some toning down either way. I have no issue with utility buffs.

>

> LoL

> Dmg needs to be toned down

> LoL

>

> Still every other class has more survivability and more dmg than reaper but reaper needs to be nerfed?

> Doesn't make sense at all. Only if you are racist

>

>

 

Bringing race into debate. What a mature, well-thought response.

 

Many high-ranked streamers I've asked thought necro's dmg should be toned down a bit. Once again, I have no issues for compensating with some utility buffs.

 

"Learn to kite" is just an excuse every necro uses because they got picked off by a random deadeye.

 

 

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Ltp issues evident, inability to adapt. Irrelevant comments /close thread. Head back over to your side of the fence and discuss the real deal with these high ranked streamers once they've sobered up.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> Bringing race into debate. What a mature, well-thought response.

>

 

I do agree with that.

 

> Many high-ranked streamers I've asked thought necro's dmg should be toned down a bit. Once again, I have no issues for compensating with some utility buffs.

>

 

The thought of those "high-ranked streamers" were either poorly expressed to you or they just lacked a full understanding of the necromancer. Anyway, the issue of the necromancer from their point of view shouldn't be necromancer's damage like you say but the way necromancer's different bursts work. If they truly resume that to "necro's damage", you can doubt their fiability as "reference".

 

> "Learn to kite" is just an excuse every necro uses because they got picked off by a random deadeye.

>

>

 

No, learn to CC is what's been said to players complaining about necromancers since release and learn to kit and CC is what's been said to players complaining about reaper since HoT release. The point is that the instant mobility of a reaper is vastly inferior to most other profession and waiting for reaper shroud to wear off isn't really difficult nor is it really long. Really, deadeye have nothing to do in the "learn to kit" thingy, don't give DE to much importance in a saying that's been here way before DE was introduced in the game.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Reaper is totally binary and I hate it. I wanted a mobility spec for PoF because Reaper has always been more or less binary (less in the good old 7s SoS times).

>

> The thing is we are not talking about PoF release mirage here that had no counters at all. Or a class that has only one counter while countering everything else (which would also be bad in terms of balancing). Of course there should be a balance (who would have thought that) in counters and being able to counter. That's trivial.

>

> ANet never tried to make classes capable of doing everything and we have to deal with it. So Reaper ended up being a melee spec with poor range options and so it has to destroy stuff that comes close because the moment that stuff decides to leave melee range the reaper is kitten immediately.

>

> **Daredevils:** I kill most of them, but that's just because of the high skill ceiling the spec has and most players will never be able to use the spec to its maximum potential. A daredevil on sindrener level facerolls every reaper even if it is the best reaper in the game. In EU you run into such daredevils two or three times in a month in wvw and it's super frustrating because you can't do anything.

>

> And now a bronze revenant player (that has plenty of options to counter) tries to fight a reaper on a sword/staff glass build and is not able to manage to cast infuse light (1/4s casttime!!!!) while he gets shroud bombed, shows up in this subforum and calls for nerfs and that reaper is a noob spec. It's just laughable.

 

Would be good to see you fighting the reaper on a revenant...a video maybe

[KrHome.1920]

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> Many high-ranked streamers I've asked thought necro's dmg should be toned down a bit.

Streaming does not stand for competence and the term "high ranked" describes me too and I can tell you the spec that should suffer the most from quickness reaper is blighter's boon reaper - like me - as this spec can't kite as good as other classes.

 

Do you see the irony?

 

I don't complain as i know the weakness of that build.

 

1v1 strategy is CC or kite then faceroll and team strategy when babysitted by a firebrand is just burst as no firebrand on earth can keep such a glass canon without blocks and evades that can't be healed in shroud alive. It's quite the opposite to what you should do when fighting a firebrand/scourge combo where I would burst the firebrand first in most situations.

 

> Once again, I have no issues for compensating with some utility buffs.

That won't happen, because of "spec-theme".

[Nimon.7840]

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > Reaper isn't braindead.Easy? not really because they are super glassy and have to be carried and run away to not be focused.They don't have much in terms of escape or mobility, and can be killed fairly easy.Good at stomping people who don't know how to play against them, but there is still a lot of switching between modes.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Without taking a side here; saying reaper's not easy is some massive self-cheating you've got going in there. The damage needs some toning down either way. I have no issue with utility buffs.

> >

> > LoL

> > Dmg needs to be toned down

> > LoL

> >

> > Still every other class has more survivability and more dmg than reaper but reaper needs to be nerfed?

> > Doesn't make sense at all. Only if you are racist

> >

> >

>

> Bringing race into debate. What a mature, well-thought response.

>

> Many high-ranked streamers I've asked thought necro's dmg should be toned down a bit. Once again, I have no issues for compensating with some utility buffs.

>

> "Learn to kite" is just an excuse every necro uses because they got picked off by a random deadeye.

>

>

 

And "nerf necro" is just a bad excuse for not wanting to learn how to counter reaper.

 

 

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > > Reaper isn't braindead.Easy? not really because they are super glassy and have to be carried and run away to not be focused.They don't have much in terms of escape or mobility, and can be killed fairly easy.Good at stomping people who don't know how to play against them, but there is still a lot of switching between modes.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Without taking a side here; saying reaper's not easy is some massive self-cheating you've got going in there. The damage needs some toning down either way. I have no issue with utility buffs.

> > >

> > > LoL

> > > Dmg needs to be toned down

> > > LoL

> > >

> > > Still every other class has more survivability and more dmg than reaper but reaper needs to be nerfed?

> > > Doesn't make sense at all. Only if you are racist

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Bringing race into debate. What a mature, well-thought response.

> >

> > Many high-ranked streamers I've asked thought necro's dmg should be toned down a bit. Once again, I have no issues for compensating with some utility buffs.

> >

> > "Learn to kite" is just an excuse every necro uses because they got picked off by a random deadeye.

> >

> >

>

> And "nerf necro" is just a bad excuse for not wanting to learn how to counter reaper.

>

>

 

Like forcing the opponent at range because too much dmg on melee?...It reminds me of old diamond skin when necros didn't want to adapt...now they want everybody else to adapt to them...with impossible expectations I'd add as not everybody can comfortably sit at 1200 range plus to keep pressure on necro

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

>

> Like forcing the opponent at range because too much dmg on melee?...It reminds me of old diamond skin when necros didn't want to adapt...now they want everybody else to adapt to them...with impossible expectations I'd add as not everybody can comfortably sit at 1200 range plus to keep pressure on necro

 

The point is more to stay away from the necromancer and make him waste is defensive CD. Why would you care about being able to put range pressure on necro? This is why it's a l2p issue, the tip is to stay away from the reaper when he is in shroud not for the whole fight. The only way the reaper will be able to recover some health when in shroud is by hiting what's around him, if you stay away, the reaper don't recover. So by just staying away when the reaper is in shroud, you counter both the necromancer sustain and it's damage. So, seriously, who care about range pressure when you can just stay away and recover when the foolish reaper waste his defensive CD for... Nothing.

 

Now, I don't think your example of _diamond skin_ was proper simply because the only way to break through _diamond skin_ would have been to deal more pressure while here the proper way to do hit isn't to even think about pressuring the reaper, just let him waste his ressources and cool down. It's like comparing apple and bananas.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> >

> > Like forcing the opponent at range because too much dmg on melee?...It reminds me of old diamond skin when necros didn't want to adapt...now they want everybody else to adapt to them...with impossible expectations I'd add as not everybody can comfortably sit at 1200 range plus to keep pressure on necro

>

> The point is more to stay away from the necromancer and make him waste is defensive CD. Why would you care about being able to put range pressure on necro? This is why it's a l2p issue, the tip is to stay away from the reaper when he is in shroud not for the whole fight. The only way the reaper will be able to recover some health when in shroud is by hiting what's around him, if you stay away, the reaper don't recover. So by just staying away when the reaper is in shroud, you counter both the necromancer sustain and it's damage. So, seriously, who care about range pressure when you can just stay away and recover when the foolish reaper waste his defensive CD for... Nothing.

>

> Now, I don't think your example of _diamond skin_ was proper simply because the only way to break through _diamond skin_ would have been to deal more pressure while here the proper way to do hit isn't to even think about pressuring the reaper, just let him waste his ressources and cool down. It's like comparing apple and bananas.

 

This is a 5vs5 capture point game and it has got nothing to do with your fantasy duel! Staying on the point and keeping away the enemy is all **the fucking idea** ....can you bloody explain me why the necro would use any skill if he's receiving no pressure from range or melee range??....This is the most absurd comment I ever read in my whole life...I don't believe what the hell I am reading , this whole comment deserve a point black thread everywhere on the internet

[Axl.8924]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:W

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > >

> > > Like forcing the opponent at range because too much dmg on melee?...It reminds me of old diamond skin when necros didn't want to adapt...now they want everybody else to adapt to them...with impossible expectations I'd add as not everybody can comfortably sit at 1200 range plus to keep pressure on necro

> >

> > The point is more to stay away from the necromancer and make him waste is defensive CD. Why would you care about being able to put range pressure on necro? This is why it's a l2p issue, the tip is to stay away from the reaper when he is in shroud not for the whole fight. The only way the reaper will be able to recover some health when in shroud is by hiting what's around him, if you stay away, the reaper don't recover. So by just staying away when the reaper is in shroud, you counter both the necromancer sustain and it's damage. So, seriously, who care about range pressure when you can just stay away and recover when the foolish reaper waste his defensive CD for... Nothing.

> >

> > Now, I don't think your example of _diamond skin_ was proper simply because the only way to break through _diamond skin_ would have been to deal more pressure while here the proper way to do hit isn't to even think about pressuring the reaper, just let him waste his ressources and cool down. It's like comparing apple and bananas.

>

> This is a 5vs5 capture point game and it has got nothing to do with your fantasy duel! Staying on the point and keeping away the enemy is all **the kitten idea** ....can you bloody explain me why the necro would use any skill if he's receiving no pressure from range or melee range??....This is the most absurd comment I ever read in my whole life...I don't believe what the hell I am reading , this whole comment deserve a point black thread everywhere on the internet

 

Thats kinda the point, because you won't be able to stay on point forever.Its called strategy.Some classes are good roamers and can force a battle for claiming a contested point.

 

Holos can stealth away and recuperate health and have amazing mobility from what i've seen.A holo who's a noder might cause issues, so you might need to strategize how to deal with them in order for getting that said contested point.

 

Don't afraid to go get help to reclaim a point.

 

Also:not every class is designed as a one man army.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > >

> > > Like forcing the opponent at range because too much dmg on melee?...It reminds me of old diamond skin when necros didn't want to adapt...now they want everybody else to adapt to them...with impossible expectations I'd add as not everybody can comfortably sit at 1200 range plus to keep pressure on necro

> >

> > The point is more to stay away from the necromancer and make him waste is defensive CD. Why would you care about being able to put range pressure on necro? This is why it's a l2p issue, the tip is to stay away from the reaper when he is in shroud not for the whole fight. The only way the reaper will be able to recover some health when in shroud is by hiting what's around him, if you stay away, the reaper don't recover. So by just staying away when the reaper is in shroud, you counter both the necromancer sustain and it's damage. So, seriously, who care about range pressure when you can just stay away and recover when the foolish reaper waste his defensive CD for... Nothing.

> >

> > Now, I don't think your example of _diamond skin_ was proper simply because the only way to break through _diamond skin_ would have been to deal more pressure while here the proper way to do hit isn't to even think about pressuring the reaper, just let him waste his ressources and cool down. It's like comparing apple and bananas.

>

> This is a 5vs5 capture point game and it has got nothing to do with your fantasy duel! Staying on the point and keeping away the enemy is all **the kitten idea** ....can you bloody explain me why the necro would use any skill if he's receiving no pressure from range or melee range??....This is the most absurd comment I ever read in my whole life...I don't believe what the hell I am reading , this whole comment deserve a point black thread everywhere on the internet

 

And this is not a fantasy duel... Seriously, this is just basic strategy, something that unfortunately (for you) you need in all kind of PvP encounters. You may think that contesting the point need to be done constantly but it's not, at worst you'll keep the point neutral which is fine since you've got colleague with you in 5v5.

 

I can also see that you have absolutely not read what I wrote or just skip the important parts, so in short:

When the reaper is out of shroud feel free to dance with him: you can damage the reaper and most of it's hard hitting skill have long wind up which make them easy to interrupt or to dodge.

When the reaper is in shroud, just avoid him: this will ensure that you do not waste your life and your CD and prevent him from healing himself.

When the reaper leave the shroud he will be at it's weakest, just rip for anyone to kill him. You cap the point very shortly after that.

You absolutely don't **need** any kind of range pressure to achieve such a result, you can play whatever build you want with whatever profession you want and achieve this result. All you need is to be cool headed and make the proper decision.

 

You can say that it's absurd, but who's the most absurd? The one that try to fight in vain someone that is shielding himself and take advantage of the foolishness of it's foes or the one that just step aside and coldly wait for the reaper to drop out of shroud so that he can achieve him? What kind of die hard waste the life of his character on a point in PvP when steping back a few second can allow him to increase his chance to win a fight? I mean, this is basic behavior in PvP (and I don't mean just GW2's PvP), it shouldn't be something new for anyone.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> Like forcing the opponent at range because too much dmg on melee?...It reminds me of old diamond skin when necros didn't want to adapt...now they want everybody else to adapt to them...with impossible expectations I'd add as not everybody can comfortably sit at 1200 range plus to keep pressure on necro

You don't have to sit at 1200 range. That's a hyperbole.

 

Running in circles at 320 range (= out of RS4 range, which is 300) as long as he is in shoud, is more than enough, then re-engage. And of course you should have a 600 leap (which lots of classes have even in core spec) to keep your distance when he uses RS2. That's all, reaper sucessfully countered!

 

Did you read what riposting shadows does?

- 600 range leap,

- that breaks stun,

- that is an evade,

- that removes chill, cripple, immob (= every cc reaper has).

 

That's a freaking hardcounter to the whole reaper mechanic in one single skill!

 

Btw. I did not complain about diamond skin. Please don't use straw man arguments!

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > >

> > > Like forcing the opponent at range because too much dmg on melee?...It reminds me of old diamond skin when necros didn't want to adapt...now they want everybody else to adapt to them...with impossible expectations I'd add as not everybody can comfortably sit at 1200 range plus to keep pressure on necro

> >

> > The point is more to stay away from the necromancer and make him waste is defensive CD. Why would you care about being able to put range pressure on necro? This is why it's a l2p issue, the tip is to stay away from the reaper when he is in shroud not for the whole fight. The only way the reaper will be able to recover some health when in shroud is by hiting what's around him, if you stay away, the reaper don't recover. So by just staying away when the reaper is in shroud, you counter both the necromancer sustain and it's damage. So, seriously, who care about range pressure when you can just stay away and recover when the foolish reaper waste his defensive CD for... Nothing.

> >

> > Now, I don't think your example of _diamond skin_ was proper simply because the only way to break through _diamond skin_ would have been to deal more pressure while here the proper way to do hit isn't to even think about pressuring the reaper, just let him waste his ressources and cool down. It's like comparing apple and bananas.

>

> This is a 5vs5 capture point game and it has got nothing to do with your fantasy duel! Staying on the point and keeping away the enemy is all **the kitten idea** ....can you bloody explain me why the necro would use any skill if he's receiving no pressure from range or melee range??....This is the most absurd comment I ever read in my whole life...I don't believe what the hell I am reading , this whole comment deserve a point black thread everywhere on the internet

 

Im Notfall playing PvP. Just a wvw roamer.

 

But, you tell the necros that they don't want to adapt but you do the exact same thing. Seems like you are playing on an incredible low level of skill, else you would be happy to meet a reaper. That's at least how it is in wvw.

 

Play reaper there. If you don't meet a bad player, that is to stupid to counter necro or if you aren't a very good player, that knows how to always utilize the terrain to your advantage, you will die there.

 

From the few matches I played PvP that's the exact same issue there.

Bad players get destroyed by reaper, good players will just counter the reaper.