Episode 4: A Star to Guide Us

[Genesis.8572]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> -Given that the statue is located in a literal secret archive where they horde, and withhold, vast amounts of knowledge from the general public, that interpretation doesn't really make sense given that they are doing the exact same thing Abbadon did. One does not generally put up statues of warnings in areas where you are doing the very thing one is warning against. It's more a general warning of "This stuff is down here because its dangerous"

This isn't the sort of occultist cabal you are imagining. It's the library archives of a university-like organization. Nearly all libraries have hidden archives inaccessible from the public, even public libraries. You are falsely conflating safely storing information with "secrets." And even if they do keep some secrets, that should not be taken as worship of Abaddon.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @"Genesis.8572" said:

> This isn't the sort of occultist cabal you are imagining. It's the library archives of a university-like organization. Nearly all libraries have hidden archives inaccessible from the public, even public libraries. You are falsely conflating safely storing information with "secrets." And even if they do keep some secrets, that should not be taken as worship of Abaddon.

I never said the worshiped Abbadon, don't try to straw man me.

 

Also, there is a difference between having a hidden archive, and keeping, and doing experiments on, highly dangerous objects like pieces of Elder Dragons, a stones throw away from one of the largest population centers in Tyira, and keeping it a secret from the people there. Though, Guild Wars 2 has never been particularly good about putting them in a positive light at any point in the game.

 

[Genesis.8572]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> I never said the worshiped Abbadon, don't try to straw man me.

Sure, "Not worship per se" but also you claim "some sort of reverence for Abbadon" in the same breath. You are definitely walking the line here, so I stand confidently by my remarks.

 

> Also, there is a difference between having a hidden archive, and keeping, and doing experiments on, highly dangerous objects like pieces of Elder Dragons, a stones throw away from one of the largest population centers in Tyira, and keeping it a secret from the people there.

1) "Distances in lore are much greater than they appear to be in-game."

 

2) They are basically research scientists and historians concerned with defeating dragons. You are venturing into crackpot territory with your conspiracy like notions of the Priory keeping secrets from people. They do meddle in dangerous lore, but that is the nature of the world. The asura and charr do this constantly without a hitch.

 

> Though, Guild Wars 2 has never been particularly good about putting them in a positive light at any point in the game.

Huh? The Durmand Priory is put in a highly positive light in this game.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @"Genesis.8572" said:

> Huh? The Durmand Priory is put in a highly positive light in this game.

By literally no metric. Go back and replay the part of the personal story where you are asked to join an order, the Priory is always portrayed as crackpot lunatics with no sense of moral or ethical judgement. The human order arc is the most hilarious of them all though

-There's a bunch of kids trapped in a swamp with risen all over the place what should we DO!

--Vigil: Lets take some soldiers in there and save them!

--Priory: Lets use this competently unsafe and untested magical device in a high critical situation where children are involved!

-We need to get information about what happened to the captain of this ship, what should we do!

--Order of Whispers: Lets go ask them.

--Priory: LETS SUMMON AND TRY TO BIND A SPIRIT OF THE UNDERWORLD!

-The Queen is about to be attacked by a horde of undead, what should we do!

--Vigil: We could form a defensive line and fight them

--Order of Whispers: We could lay a trap and take them out!

--Priory: LETS USE THAT SAME DEVICE FROM BEFORE! EXCEPT THIS TIME WITH THE QUEEN AROUND!(which is made worse if you didn't pick them the first time meaning the device is just as unsafe and untested as it was then, and now they are suggesting to use it around the queen)

 

It gets even worse in the Orders storyline where the Vigil helps the peace summit between humans and Char from being sabotaged, helping the alliance in a major way by allowing Human and Charr relations to get better. While the Order of Whispers help Demmi Beetlestone defect, and thus, gain a pulse on the White Mantle, and the source of bandit activity in Kryta. Again, very helpful to reduce problems in the region. On the other hand, the Priory finds and locks away the Sanguinary Blade, contributing nothing to anyone, and robs the Alliance any possibility of finding a weakness in the dragons in the process.

 

Then in Orr, near the end of the Personal Story, the Vigil's Plan helps defeat a large part of the Risen Army by dropping in tanks to plow through them, while the Order of Shadows equally hurts the Risen army by capturing their ships. The Priory on the other hand sends you to look for a missing group of scouts, and its only be sheer dumb luck that they had happened to find a Searing Cauldron, and its equally possible that they could have found nothing at all.

 

Its pretty clear someone at Anet hates the Priory, or just doesn't understand how to write a faction that is supposed to be "smart", because everything the Priory does, or attempts to do, in this game is either pants on head stupid, or just plain nonsense. They are never shown in a positive light in this game at all, and that anything they do works is shown to be out of sheer plot armor, and not because it was actually thought through. Even during the living world they cause more problems then the other orders/factions because they can't even keep a basic system of passcodes in check, causing the player to have to hunt for the only person who knows the codes into the secret part of the secret archive, and pulled the monumentally obviously bad idea of bringing a massive chuck of an Elder Dragon's body right into the heart of one of the Orders.

[derd.6413]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"Genesis.8572" said:

> > Huh? The Durmand Priory is put in a highly positive light in this game.

> By literally no metric. Go back and replay the part of the personal story where you are asked to join an order, the Priory is always portrayed as crackpot lunatics with no sense of moral or ethical judgement. The human order arc is the most hilarious of them all though

> -There's a bunch of kids trapped in a swamp with risen all over the place what should we DO!

> --Vigil: Lets take some soldiers in there and save them!

> --Priory: Lets use this competently unsafe and untested magical device in a high critical situation where children are involved!

> -We need to get information about what happened to the captain of this ship, what should we do!

> --Order of Whispers: Lets go ask them.

> --Priory: LETS SUMMON AND TRY TO BIND A SPIRIT OF THE UNDERWORLD!

> -The Queen is about to be attacked by a horde of undead, what should we do!

> --Vigil: We could form a defensive line and fight them

> --Order of Whispers: We could lay a trap and take them out!

> --Priory: LETS USE THAT SAME DEVICE FROM BEFORE! EXCEPT THIS TIME WITH THE QUEEN AROUND!(which is made worse if you didn't pick them the first time meaning the device is just as unsafe and untested as it was then, and now they are suggesting to use it around the queen)

>

> It gets even worse in the Orders storyline where the Vigil helps the peace summit between humans and Char from being sabotaged, helping the alliance in a major way by allowing Human and Charr relations to get better. While the Order of Whispers help Demmi Beetlestone defect, and thus, gain a pulse on the White Mantle, and the source of bandit activity in Kryta. Again, very helpful to reduce problems in the region. On the other hand, the Priory finds and locks away the Sanguinary Blade, contributing nothing to anyone, and robs the Alliance any possibility of finding a weakness in the dragons in the process.

>

> Then in Orr, near the end of the Personal Story, the Vigil's Plan helps defeat a large part of the Risen Army by dropping in tanks to plow through them, while the Order of Shadows equally hurts the Risen army by capturing their ships. The Priory on the other hand sends you to look for a missing group of scouts, and its only be sheer dumb luck that they had happened to find a Searing Cauldron, and its equally possible that they could have found nothing at all.

>

> Its pretty clear someone at Anet hates the Priory, or just doesn't understand how to write a faction that is supposed to be "smart", because everything the Priory does, or attempts to do, in this game is either pants on head stupid, or just plain nonsense. They are never shown in a positive light in this game at all, and that anything they do works is shown to be out of sheer plot armor, and not because it was actually thought through. Even during the living world they cause more problems then the other orders/factions because they can't even keep a basic system of passcodes in check, causing the player to have to hunt for the only person who knows the codes into the secret part of the secret archive, and pulled the monumentally obviously bad idea of bringing a massive chuck of an Elder Dragon's body right into the heart of one of the Orders.

 

the vigil are violent and rash whos actions don't have catastrofic effects because plot armor.

 

order of whispers are a shadow organization specialized in the manipulation of information and assasinates anybody they dislike.

 

if you're gonna nitpick like that then all the orders are awfull, not just the priory

[draxynnic.3719]

Yyyyeah, I don't think the Priory's activities are any worse than the others there.

 

Considering the human storyline... the other options were also risky, honestly. Sending in a military force as the Vigil suggested, for instance, risks said military force being noticed by the Risen (in turn bringing the attention of the Risen on the children), being overrun, and turned into Risen, making the situation worse. This, in fact, almost happens if you take this choice. Using the Mortis Verge turns it into a stealth mission, where only a couple of people (beyond the children who are already in danger) are threatened.

 

In the second instance... the Whispers approach carries a risk as well. It carries the risk that none of Alastia's crew actually have the information that you're looking for, and you've wasted important time looking. Summoning Alastia probably means more risk to the PC, but it does mean talking to the one person that you knew did know what was going on.

 

With respect to the Order storyline that followed:

 

The Vigil and OoW arcs might, on the face of it, seem more relevant to Tyria's security, but that's where we're getting into the different focuses of the orders. The OoW, and to a lesser extent the Vigil, do work by involving themselves in Tyrian politics. The Priory, on the whole, does not. It performs research and archaeology. So it's natural for the Priory novice's first expedition to be an archaeological one.

 

It's actually coincidence (or plot contrivance) that it developed into a story relevant to Tyria's security at all. The Priory is a scholarly organisation. Some of its activities are purely going to be for knowledge's sake. In practice, it did end up being important (unless you want an army of icebrood to attack Lion's Arch) and the Sanguinary Blade being in the Durmand Priory is probably the best place for anything useful to be discovered about it. Maybe someday it'll be the key to defeating Primordus.

 

The Orrian arc is more complicated, since despite the choices coming from the order representatives, the arcs are not unique to a particular order. The idea to lure in Risen ships using the lighthouses came from a Priory scholar, and all three are concerned for the missing squad. Furthermore, it's known beforehand that they were looking for some artifact, so it isn't completely serendipity that it proved to be a useful component of the aerial assault.

 

In regard to the 'beware the dangers of secrets kept' line...

 

The Priory's attitude is essentially that no knowledge should be allowed to be lost altogether, because forgetting about something entirely can allow it to bite you in the backside without warning later. Abaddon and the Elder Dragons are both examples of this. They don't release everything to the public - since that can also be dangerous - but they want to make sure that if their knowledge is needed, it can be made available to those who need it. As opposed to Abaddon, the initial rise of the Elder Dragons, and so on, which were complete surprises due to the knowledge being suppressed.

 

Abaddon is the object lesson for this. The inscription is specifically in the vicinity of Abaddon's statue and the map of the All (itself linked to the dragons) while not being in a position where it would work as a generic "unauthorised people should keep out" warning: the implication is that it's intended as a warning of the threat that ignorance can pose.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

 

> Abaddon is the object lesson for this. The inscription is specifically in the vicinity of Abaddon's statue and the map of the All (itself linked to the dragons) while not being in a position where it would work as a generic "unauthorised people should keep out" warning: the implication is that it's intended as a warning of the threat that ignorance can pose.

 

I also read it as being a cautionary tale that they want to remind themselves of. The Priory aren't idiots; they _know_ they're treading a dangerous line here, delving into knowledge that'd be dangerous in the wrong hands, and in the process positioning themselves as the arbiters of what constitutes 'wrong hands'. Abaddon is a sobering reminder of where that path might lead, and one that it's natural for them to want to keep at the forefront of their minds.

[Fenar.4025]

> @"Fleebag.1384" said:

> > @"Fleebag.1384" said:

> > Aurene ate and assimilated Jokos memories, and we will now be guided by those memories (through Aurene?) - Aftger all, It did seem Joko had a lot of in-depth knowledge of ED, their workings and our miserable attempts to contain it that we never got the chance to learn due to Aurene's unexpected feasting.....

>

> Actually, thinking some more on this:

> - Joko was the star of his own show - at least in his own view

> - and we already had one of his memories played up for us in the "hidden" Joko statue

>

> So maybe not through Aurene after all - , but through additional recorded Joko memories we need to chase down?

 

When you do the Astralarium heart you can take readings from telescopes. One of those stars is named the scourge and is located in the constellation "Joko's Staff". Joko is often called the Scourge of Vabbi. Also, the team working on this episode is the same that did Istan.

[ugrakarma.9416]

in the end of Chapter we gonna discover that star to guide us, was in truly Palawa Joko everytime.

[Genesis.8572]

I would also add that while we assumed that Demni Beetlestone had critical information that could help with Caudecus and the White Mantle, we actually learn in "Head of the Snake" that she knew negligibly little. She had barely scratched the surface when she fled. We learn this from transpondences between Caudecus and White Mantle agents in the Order of Whispers. So although this storyline feels helpful from the perspective of the PC, we later learn it actually yields very little fruit.

 

The Vigil storyline is odd in that it is basically just enacting almost the same dynamic events and story steps of the open world Fields of Ruin. Escort diplomat to treaty location. Either wipe out charr Renegades or defend the camp from attack. It's helpful but it's nothing new apart from slapping the face of Almorra's cub on the Renegade faction. And given the lack of Vigil presence in the open world version of Fields of Ruin, it felt somewhat out-of-place.

 

The Durmand Priory are downright benign from the perspective of the six nations. They are not a paramilitary crusading force nor are they political snoops and meddlers. If you were a human noble, you were presumably tutored by either a Priory scholar or a priest of Kormir since these would be the more knowledgable sort. The Priory are researchers, archaeologists, explorers, scientists, and historians. They want their knowledge to be useful for stopping the Elder Dragons, but their purpose extends beyond that. They seek to expand and preserve knowledge. Their hall in Divinity's Reach is a public library, and they led archaeological excavations in Rin (Black Citadel) and Lion's Arch. The Priory even invented the New Krytan alphabet and increasing its use as a shared basis for mutual understanding across races. So it is not as if they are not contributing to the public good.

 

Yes, they store dangerous artifacts like the Sanguinary Blade, but one of the points of their storyline was about the dangers of meddling in draconic artifacts without first understanding them properly. The alternative is that these artifacts are misused by the wrong hands or destroyed prematurely. Look at the defenses of the Pact. Do you not think that the Priory did not contribute to magical or scientific advances that we see in the Pact's military operations?

[Mea.5491]

This episode was brutal (emotionally)... I'll just sit here and cry for a while...

[Mickey Frogeater.1470]

What happened?

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"Mickey Frogeater.1470" said:

> What happened?

 

i created a topic for those can provide spoilers, and impressions from those played it.

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/55344/episode-4-thread-for-spoilers-and-comments/p1?new=1