Episode 4: thread for spoilers and comments.

[Genesis.8572]

> @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> But it would not be out of nowhere or contrived due to the repeated, continued references to them, their abilities and their magic and especially if there is an episode or two dedicated to finding them. It's a Chekhov's Gun in action, not a Deus Ex Machina.

>

> It does not fit into the definition in the way you're thinking at all.

I don't think that "Chekhov's Gun" means what you think it means. It's about creating a tighter story by reducing extraneous elements that serve no narrative purpose. It's a general principle for writing that if you make the effort to introduce even an innocuous element in your story that you should use it later. I don't think that the gods in Guild Wars are that innocuous given just how heavily they dominated the story and lore. Furthermore, Chekhov's own focus was short stories and not episodic fantasy video game epics. And one of the pitfalls of people attempting to analyze complex narratives in-progress is that everyone finds "guns" lying around the narrative that they are convinced will shoot later.

 

One of the best uses, IMHO, is also in a classic movie where the trope gets inverted. The protagonist mentions how they bought a gun to commit suicide. It resurfaces as a prop in several scenes around his apartment too. Then at a New Year party at work with their boss, the female character realizes that the protagonist, and not her work boss, is the man who truly loves her. So she goes back to his apartment, and at the door she hears a gun shot. Frightful that he attempted suicide with the gun established previously, she bangs on the door only to discover that the protagonist had simply opened up a bottle of champagne. That is how you use Chekhov's Gun.

[derd.6413]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > and how would we prevent this from happening again? aurene isn't an ED, she's a second generation ED so first generation branded would probably take more claim if we do the same as last time

> Aurene is a dragon, and a natural dragon at that(compared to a raised dragon like the Claw of Jormag), and is literally Kralkatorrik's own blood, which is why she is a useful weapon in the first place. It would flow to her more then anyone except possible Glint if Glint was still alive.

 

then the factor is "we need a direct descendant of an ED" which to me is just kinda boring

 

also it's entirely possible that dragon champs like claw of jormag (and maybe the pale tree) are "raised" the same way as glint was (i doubt kralk lays eggs)

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> then the factor is "we need a direct descendant of an ED" which to me is just kinda boring

>

> also it's entirely possible that dragon champs like claw of jormag (and maybe the pale tree) are "raised" the same way as glint was (i doubt kralk lays eggs)

I don't think they NEED to be a direct descendant of an ED, only that being one helps. I'm sure one COULD make the Pale Tree a replacement for Mordremoth, it just isn't a natural of an occurrence as it would be for Aurene.

 

[Imba.9451]

> @"lakdav.3694" said:

 

> The mursaat refuge where they weathered the last Dragonrise in the Mists

 

Thats mah boi ;D

 

But Anet has to be carefull not to abuse this sitation for cheap solutions. It opens great possibilities for both great and poor writing.

I just hope they don't add time travel. Time travel ruins everything.

[ThatOddOne.4387]

> @"Genesis.8572" said:

> > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > But it would not be out of nowhere or contrived due to the repeated, continued references to them, their abilities and their magic and especially if there is an episode or two dedicated to finding them. It's a Chekhov's Gun in action, not a Deus Ex Machina.

> >

> > It does not fit into the definition in the way you're thinking at all.

> I don't think that "Chekhov's Gun" means what you think it means. It's about creating a tighter story by reducing extraneous elements that serve no narrative purpose. It's a general principle for writing that if you make the effort to introduce even an innocuous element in your story that you should use it later. I don't think that the gods in Guild Wars are that innocuous given just how heavily they dominated the story and lore. Furthermore, Chekhov's own focus was short stories and not episodic fantasy video game epics. And one of the pitfalls of people attempting to analyze complex narratives in-progress is that everyone finds "guns" lying around the narrative that they are convinced will shoot later.

>

> One of the best uses, IMHO, is also in a classic movie where the trope gets inverted. The protagonist mentions how they bought a gun to commit suicide. It resurfaces as a prop in several scenes around his apartment too. Then at a New Year party at work with their boss, the female character realizes that the protagonist, and not her work boss, is the man who truly loves her. So she goes back to his apartment, and at the door she hears a gun shot. Frightful that he attempted suicide with the gun established previously, she bangs on the door only to discover that the protagonist had simply opened up a bottle of champagne. That is how you use Chekhov's Gun.

 

That's one way to use it, but more broadly the term references that everything introduced in a story needs to have a purpose. So far, despite a few hiccups, that is what Path of Fire is doing, even returning to Balthazar in the latest one.

 

It's also a story telling guide to prevent the writer from adding too many details that seem more important than they are, and I would struggle to believe ArenaNet is going to make the Gods and all the information about where they are and their magic details that are not important.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

> @"Imba.9451" said:

> > @"lakdav.3694" said:

>

> > The mursaat refuge where they weathered the last Dragonrise in the Mists

>

> Thats mah boi ;D

>

> But Anet has to be carefull not to abuse this sitation for cheap solutions. It opens great possibilities for both great and poor writing.

> I just hope they don't add time travel. Time travel ruins everything.

 

We only see instances of time echoes and not real time travel, so we don't as of yet know if that's even possible.

[derd.6413]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > then the factor is "we need a direct descendant of an ED" which to me is just kinda boring

> >

> > also it's entirely possible that dragon champs like claw of jormag (and maybe the pale tree) are "raised" the same way as glint was (i doubt kralk lays eggs)

> I don't think they NEED to be a direct descendant of an ED, only that being one helps. I'm sure one COULD make the Pale Tree a replacement for Mordremoth, it just isn't a natural of an occurrence as it would be for Aurene.

>

 

that causes a few issues: firstly, that'd mean aurene won't absorb all magic of kralk just most of it.

 

secondly that'd mean we can't fix the zhaitan and mord mess. (ppl seem to forget that alot of their magic is in the wild and it's slowly destroying tyria mostly through leylinemagic manifesting hostile entities and driving things mad)

 

also that'd mean we didn't need to kill balt, we just needed to tell him that if he finds glint's offspring (or whatever candidate) they could prevent kralk's death magic explosion and we could have fought the EDs with him.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> We only see instances of time echoes and not real time travel, so we don't as of yet know if that's even possible.

As part of the Requiem Armor collection we give a set of armor to an NPC that lived hundreds of years ago, and then later meet their decedents talking about said armor, and when we find said armor in the present as "Mist entanglement items" the person who crafted the armor point blank states it has her mark on it, but she doesn't understand how because its obviously centuries old.

 

So we didn't interact with just an echo, we literally altered the past by giving a set of armor made in the present to someone who lived in the past, and we find that armor again in the present having aged those hundreds of years.

 

> @"derd.6413" said:

> that causes a few issues: firstly, that'd mean aurene won't absorb all magic of kralk just most of it.

>

> secondly that'd mean we can't fix the zhaitan and mord mess. (ppl seem to forget that alot of their magic is in the wild and it's slowly destroying tyria mostly through leylinemagic manifesting hostile entities and driving things mad)

>

> also that'd mean we didn't need to kill balt, we just needed to tell him that if he finds glint's offspring (or whatever candidate) they could prevent kralk's death magic explosion and we could have fought the EDs with him.

Everything you said is just wrong.

A. No it doesn't, why would you even think that?

B. We totally could fix the Zhatan and Mordrmeoth messes, we just need a way to scan for their specific aspects of magic and siphon those from the wild into whoever is going to repalce them.

C. We totally needed to kill Balthazar because he wanted to energy for himself so he could kill the other gods. He didn't care about fighting the Elder dragons by the time PoF rolls around, and Aurene wasn't ready to take in that much magic anyways.

You seem very confused about much of the game's plot.

[ThatOddOne.4387]

And what beings have been capable of siphoning specific types of magic into vessels that are not themselves before?

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> And what beings have been capable of siphoning specific types of magic into vessels that are not themselves before?

Everyone from Asura to gods.

[Genesis.8572]

> @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> That's one way to use it, but more broadly the term references that everything introduced in a story needs to have a purpose.

Which would make your use of Chekhov's Gun even more egregious in the context of Guild Wars 2.

[ThatOddOne.4387]

> @"Genesis.8572" said:

> > That's one way to use it, but more broadly the term references that everything introduced in a story needs to have a purpose.

> Which would make your use of Chekhov's Gun even more egregious in the context of Guild Wars 2.

 

> @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> It's also a story telling guide to prevent the writer from adding too many details that seem more important than they are, and I would struggle to believe ArenaNet is going to make the Gods and all the information about where they are and their magic details that are not important.

 

Simply put there's more to it than your definition as well.

 

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > And what beings have been capable of siphoning specific types of magic into vessels that are not themselves before?

> Everyone from Asura to gods.

 

Exactly.

 

And specifically for Dragon Magic it's limited to Chak and the Gods.

[Fenom.9457]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > More likely E5 being the shoreline and having some water, about as far south as DoK map, some docks, some boat invasion events, more of Anet trying to improve water content. Then E6 being sunward marches and some desolation, and S5 will continue in Elona against kralkatorrik. I could easily see a whole extra season on it. Or, we could move on. Personally I think there are great options either way

> It's unlikely Anet would do anything to try to improve water content this season given that none of our enemies are water based. It's also equally unlikely that season 5 will take place in Elona since there would be basically no room left for another season's worth of maps in Elona once S4 is done. Also, they wouldn't change seasons unless they are changing narrative direction, and this whole seasons has been leading up to us killing Kralktorik, so its a good bet Kralkatorrik is going to die this seasons. This means season 5 has a high chance of being like season 3 was, where we hop around central Tyria, dealing with various smaller problems so that we can

> A. See how central Tyria has been doing since we left for Elona

> B. Make sure central Tyria is in a stable state before we leave for the Depths to fight Primordus, or the Far Shiverpeaks to fight Jormag, or Cantha/somewhere else to fight Bubbles.

>

> > @"Arden.7480" said:

> > After that we found out that Kralk can open the rifts wherever he wants, I doubt it's that obvious the 6th map will be in this crystal palace.

> >

> > I would rather have a fight, not on Tyria, but in the Mists or somewhere else.

> Like I've said twice already, the 6th map is not necessarily the map we fight him on, just where we go to reach the place to fight him. Linsey Murdock said she has a rule about placing the Living World story maps on the current in-game parchment, so there is unlikely to ever be a whole dedicated map in the Mists of w/e. Meaning the 6th map has to be somewhere on the map, and it makes sense for it to be there since the only other place is a part of the Desolation that has nothing in it.

 

 

While I do agree S5 is more likely to move on, there’s more than enough space for another season in Elona, map and plot wise. Between Istan, Kourna, Vabbi, Dajkah, Sulfurous Wastelands, Elon River, and Crystal Desert there’s more room than could be mapped out even.

 

And as for water content, we do have corsairs, and undoubtedly awakened have some boats. But even though that map would have plenty of water, the land would have much more content to it

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> And specifically for Dragon Magic it's limited to Chak and the Gods.

Or the unknown weapon Vlast mentioned, which he specifically states lets mortals perform the work of dragons.

 

[derd.6413]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > We only see instances of time echoes and not real time travel, so we don't as of yet know if that's even possible.

> As part of the Requiem Armor collection we give a set of armor to an NPC that lived hundreds of years ago, and then later meet their decedents talking about said armor, and when we find said armor in the present as "Mist entanglement items" the person who crafted the armor point blank states it has her mark on it, but she doesn't understand how because its obviously centuries old.

>

> So we didn't interact with just an echo, we literally altered the past by giving a set of armor made in the present to someone who lived in the past, and we find that armor again in the present having aged those hundreds of years.

>

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > that causes a few issues: firstly, that'd mean aurene won't absorb all magic of kralk just most of it.

> >

> > secondly that'd mean we can't fix the zhaitan and mord mess. (ppl seem to forget that alot of their magic is in the wild and it's slowly destroying tyria mostly through leylinemagic manifesting hostile entities and driving things mad)

> >

> > also that'd mean we didn't need to kill balt, we just needed to tell him that if he finds glint's offspring (or whatever candidate) they could prevent kralk's death magic explosion and we could have fought the EDs with him.

> Everything you said is just wrong.

> A. No it doesn't, why would you even think that?

> B. We totally could fix the Zhatan and Mordrmeoth messes, we just need a way to scan for their specific aspects of magic and siphon those from the wild into whoever is going to repalce them.

> C. We totally needed to kill Balthazar because he wanted to energy for himself so he could kill the other gods. He didn't care about fighting the Elder dragons by the time PoF rolls around, and Aurene wasn't ready to take in that much magic anyways.

> You seem very confused about much of the game's plot.

 

A. read my other comments again.

 

B. and why wouldn't we need to do this for the others besides aurene dragon therefore convinience

 

C. we only learned that after we set out to stop him and i'm certain that's a sacrifice alot of ppl are willing to make

 

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > And specifically for Dragon Magic it's limited to Chak and the Gods.

> Or the unknown weapon Vlast mentioned, which he specifically states lets mortals perform the work of dragons.

>

 

i'm fairly certain that was just the spear

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> i'm fairly certain that was just the spear

If it is, then it apparently had a bunch of functions that no one knew about.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Memories_of_Vlast

Vlast: To hold the weapon is to hold the fate of Tyria in your hands—the power to change the shape of the world.

Vlast: Potent enough to fell the Elder Dragons. Its might should not be taken lightly.

Vlast: It was created so mortals could do the work of dragons, of our line.

Vlast: To combat cataclysmic power and prevent the destruction of all life.

Vlast: He seeks it for the wrong purpose. We're not ready.

 

> @"derd.6413" said:

> C. we only learned that after we set out to stop him and i'm certain that's a sacrifice alot of ppl are willing to make

If Balthazar had succeeded in his plan then all of Tyria would have been destroyed, and no one would have been left alive.

[derd.6413]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > i'm fairly certain that was just the spear

> If it is, then it apparently had a bunch of functions that no one knew about.

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Memories_of_Vlast

> Vlast: To hold the weapon is to hold the fate of Tyria in your hands—the power to change the shape of the world.

> Vlast: Potent enough to fell the Elder Dragons. Its might should not be taken lightly.

> Vlast: It was created so mortals could do the work of dragons, of our line.

> Vlast: To combat cataclysmic power and prevent the destruction of all life.

> Vlast: He seeks it for the wrong purpose. We're not ready.

 

i'm pretty sure all of this referes to it being able to kill kralk

 

also he said that it laid in the shadow of the prophet which i'm certain of is referring to the place glint died

>

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > C. we only learned that after we set out to stop him and i'm certain that's a sacrifice alot of ppl are willing to make

> If Balthazar had succeeded in his plan then all of Tyria would have been destroyed, and no one would have been left alive.

 

not if we go by your theory tho.

if there are no other requirements for aurene to replace kralk besides proximity to his death then balt killing kralk wouldn't destroy tyra since we could just bring aurene with him to prevent it.

having balt absorb magic alongside her it would actually be safer then just having aurene do it. (to take some of the load of aurene)

 

and like i said we didn't know about the whole war between gods would destroy tyria melarky until we went to kormir (and we went there to get them to help killing balt)

 

 

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> not if we go by your theory tho.

Not by any measure. Where are you pulling this from?

> if there are no other requirements for aurene to replace kralk besides proximity to his death

There are plenty of things, and I have stated several of them. By the Nine! what are you even talking about?

 

[derd.6413]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > not if we go by your theory tho.

> Not by any measure. Where are you pulling this from?

> > if there are no other requirements for aurene to replace kralk besides proximity to his death

> There are plenty of things, and I have stated several of them. By the Nine! what are you even talking about?

>

 

what are arguing about then?

 

also what nine?

[perilisk.1874]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > C. we only learned that after we set out to stop him and i'm certain that's a sacrifice alot of ppl are willing to make

> If Balthazar had succeeded in his plan then all of Tyria would have been destroyed, and no one would have been left alive.

 

But, then Kraalkatorik would not be threatening all worlds connected to the Mists, rather than just one world. So, we still managed to make the wrong decision. I'm pretty sure next time the Commander is faced with a big bad, they should just figure out how they would normally handle the situation, and then do the opposite.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @"perilisk.1874" said:

> But, then Kraalkatorik would not be threatening all worlds connected to the Mists, rather than just one world. So, we still managed to make the wrong decision. I'm pretty sure next time the Commander is faced with a big bad, they should just figure out how they would normally handle the situation, and then do the opposite.

No, instead we would have had an all powerful god of war sending his endless armies across the mists because he has a massive hard on for battle. It would be the same situation, just a different enemy.

 

[perilisk.1874]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"perilisk.1874" said:

> > But, then Kraalkatorik would not be threatening all worlds connected to the Mists, rather than just one world. So, we still managed to make the wrong decision. I'm pretty sure next time the Commander is faced with a big bad, they should just figure out how they would normally handle the situation, and then do the opposite.

> No, instead we would have had an all powerful god of war sending his endless armies across the mists because he has a massive hard on for battle. It would be the same situation, just a different enemy.

>

 

Fair point.

[Walhalla.5473]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"perilisk.1874" said:

> > But, then Kraalkatorik would not be threatening all worlds connected to the Mists, rather than just one world. So, we still managed to make the wrong decision. I'm pretty sure next time the Commander is faced with a big bad, they should just figure out how they would normally handle the situation, and then do the opposite.

> No, instead we would have had an all powerful god of war sending his endless armies across the mists because he has a massive hard on for battle. It would be the same situation, just a different enemy.

>

 

At least with Balthazar it would be a very long war. With Kralkatorrik on the other hand everything is gonna be erased when he finishes. So on that situation I would go with Balth, there would be still an existence left with him.

 

On the topic of replacing Kralkatorrik. We still don't know how to kill him without destroying Tyria. Aurene could ingest his magic but what then? Magic alone isn't what threatens Tyria. Its the killing of the ones who are somehow bound to the All. She isn't bound to the All like the Elder Dragons are and we don't know how to accomplish this. And we still have the vacant places for Zhaitan and Mordremoth left which need to be filled as well, since their death destabilized Tyria.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> At least with Balthazar it would be a very long war. With Kralkatorrik on the other hand everything is gonna be erased when he finishes. So on that situation I would go with Balth, there would be still an existence left with him.

>

> On the topic of replacing Kralkatorrik. We still don't know how to kill him without destroying Tyria. Aurene could ingest his magic but what then? Magic alone isn't what threatens Tyria. Its the killing of the ones who are somehow bound to the All. She isn't bound to the All like the Elder Dragons are and we don't know how to accomplish this. And we still have the vacant places for Zhaitan and Mordremoth left which need to be filled as well, since their death destabilized Tyria.

Not necessarily. Balthazar faces much the same problem the Charr do. A society based on war has only one ultimate end goal, the complete eradication of everything including itself, as the need for ever bigger and stronger enemies to fight drives one to destroy everything, and then eventually turn on itself as it becomes te only thing left that is a worthy fight. Balthazar's crusade would have ultimately resulted in the end of everything.

 

 

As for Aurene. I have spoken about this before, but what makes a god a god is not some physical trait, but rather, a specific kind of magical power they posses. Balthazar stopped being a god when his power was taken from him, but he still existed because godlyhood is not something that is a physical aspect of his own body/being. This is the same for Abbadon and Kormir, who went from not being gods, into being gods, by taking in the specific god magic of the gods who came before them. The same is also likely true of the Elder Dragons and their connection to the All. This stems from a very specific kind of power found only in the Elder Dragons, and is likely transferable as god magic is, and this connection would be transferred to Aurene when she takes in Kralkatorrik's Elder Dragon power. We see something similar with the gods in that when they are using actual god magic it makes them blindingly bright, and when they lose god magic they stop being that way. The brightness isn't a physical aspect of them personally, its an aspect of their specific magic. Much like the connection to the All is likely not a physical aspect of the Elder Dragons themselves, but rather an aspect of the specific magic they possess.

 

Don't forget, while the Elder Dragons consume magic, it doesn't mean all of the magic they consume turns into Elder Dragon magic. The Elder Dagons have eaten all the magic in the world many times over in past cycles, and yet not all magic in the world is just brand/mordrem/etc. magic. Its just magic, and when they die much of what they release into the world is JUST normal magic, and not Elder Dragon specific magic. This is why we don't see these ley infused creatures using the powers of the dead Elder Dragons(unless they were a dragon minion already), they just have crazy amped powers. All the Dragon Magic got transferred to the other elder Dragons, which is why Jormag, Primordus, and Kralkatottik did gain these aspects.

 

The biggest problem people have is trying to conflate all magic as just being magic, when the game has made it pretty clear there are very distinct types of magic, and I don't mean like how a Mesmer's magic is different then that of an Elementalist. The Elder Dragon's magic is much like the Gods magic in that it is fundamentally distinct and different in its very being compared to the mortal magics, and thus posses unique traits such as blinding brightness, or a connection to the all, due to its primal, higher-order, nature.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"brenda.9723" said:

> > 7: Sorry, but I am not a fan of Zafirah. Her boss fight was really annoying me. And she has kind-of the same secretive vibe as caithe, but then less believeable and fun. Secondly, I did not really understand why the pc is following the future of aurenes vision, bc she does not want aurene to die, right? Sparing Zafirah bc she was part of a possible future in which aurene died, seemed illogical to me. Bc you dont want that future to happen, right? Right? :/

>

> because aurene also died in the visions without her, so she is a potential ally in the fight against kralk and shooing her away wouldn't change anything.

>

> > :heartbreak: He was such a fun, cute and nice character. It made me always so happy to see him. He was one of my favorite characters. Blish was such an adorable little robot and I really liked him . Please bring him back. It would make me so happy to see him again. Please let us put him back together, or save him from the mists :'( .

>

> no, that'd just be insulting

Insulting or not, there is the possibility to save Blish already established.

 

Firstly, in Path of Fire we saw via Big Snaff that golems don't take Kralkatorrik's corruption very well. In the novel, Big Snaff got hit directly by Kralkatorrik's corruptive breath multiple times, yet Snaff inside of it was safe, and in PoF, we see that Big Snaff only had some purple coating on it. Blish's body can survive the corruption. So long as his body isn't crushed, it'll survive. But if it is destroyed, the tracker will cease to function as well from my understanding. So in other words, as long as the tracker works, Blish's body is recoverable.

 

On the whole "shutting down permanently" thing, this is immediately related to what happened to Blish in Ep3, where he was stuck in that senses-less purgatory state when his body was shut down. This means that while Blish cannot reactivate himself, someone else can. Even if the power directing prevents reactivation, a knowledgeable individual can de-route that power reroute and power Blish back up.

 

Whether he gets saved in the end or not, I really hope that Gorrik (or Taimi) realize this all, and goes on a crusade to save Blish.

 

> @"derd.6413" said:

> can we keep the gods out of the story for a while and do something actually interesting rather then pandering to GW1 nostalgia

It's rather insulting to call anything that references the foundation of the franchise as "pandering to nostalgia" because it isn't.

 

And tbh, the gods are far more interesting than the Elder Dragons have been. Even if they did pathetic work with Balthaddon and Dhuum in GW2.

 

If you've not played GW1, then you're set with a biased example, since GW2's not been as great as GW1 was with establishing their personalities. But at least they *have* personalities, unlike the Elder Dragons.

 

> @"derd.6413" said:

> no it isn't. better option is to look into that whole replacing thing the game banging on about and the established weakness of kralk and then using that intel to defeat kralk with hard work and proper strategy. it's alot better then "the human gods deus ex machina kralk to death"

We already know how to replace Kralkatorrik (apparently), and it's been established through the visions that just having the weakness of Kralkatorrik (aka Aurene) is insufficient. And it would be absolutely insulting after the visions that show *every possible combination of established and known allies* (which, to reiterate, includes the "weakness of Kralkatorrik" and "that whole replacing thing") will result in failure, that we succeed just because we had hard work.

 

The visions show that we need something **new**. Whether that be gods or not.

 

Furthermore, the gods becoming part of the plot is not a Dues Ex Machina. It all depends on presentation. If the gods suddenly showed up while we didn't even consider them in the plot, then yes they'd be a dues ex machina. If, however, we spent an episode searching for them and going through the Mists to do so, then no, it wouldn't be a dues ex machina.

 

> @"derd.6413" said:

> that's not entirely true. there is another factor involved or else we would have had zhaitan 2 and mordremoth 2 at this point.

 

Untrue, as this episode establishes. The idea seems to be that Aurene needs to absorb all of/the lion's share of Kralkatorrik's power; or a specific part of Kralkatorrik's power, and needs to be present when Kralk dies to do so (easily).

 

With Zhaitan and Mordremoth, there was no one present to take the power, so it got spread across the world and absorbed by at least three individuals (for Zhaitan: Mordremoth, Kralkatorrik, and Tequatl; for Mordremoth (and his share of Zhaitan): by Primordus, Jormag, and Kralkatorrik). Furthermore, Tequatl was actually slowly becoming a 'Zhaitan 2' until we canonically killed him. But even if left alive, he probably wouldn't have been able to do so fully since he couldn't get the primary part/majority of Zhaitan's power as it had already begun to spread to Kralkatorrik and perhaps Mordremoth/Primordus at the time.

 

> @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > @"Imba.9451" said:

> > > @"lakdav.3694" said:

> >

> > > The mursaat refuge where they weathered the last Dragonrise in the Mists

> >

> > Thats mah boi ;D

> >

> > But Anet has to be carefull not to abuse this sitation for cheap solutions. It opens great possibilities for both great and poor writing.

> > I just hope they don't add time travel. Time travel ruins everything.

>

> We only see instances of time echoes and not real time travel, so we don't as of yet know if that's even possible.

 

The Rift and the Mists connect all "times and places", so in theory time travel would be possible. How difficult it would be, however, isn't established.

 

> @"derd.6413" said:

> that causes a few issues: firstly, that'd mean aurene won't absorb all magic of kralk just most of it.

>

> secondly that'd mean we can't fix the zhaitan and mord mess. (ppl seem to forget that alot of their magic is in the wild and it's slowly destroying tyria mostly through leylinemagic manifesting hostile entities and driving things mad)

>

> also that'd mean we didn't need to kill balt, we just needed to tell him that if he finds glint's offspring (or whatever candidate) they could prevent kralk's death magic explosion and we could have fought the EDs with him.

 

Aurene doesn't need to at this point, since Kralkatorrik has power not his own. She just needs to absorb what connects Kralkatorrik to his specific sphere of The All.

 

And the situation for Zhaitan and Mordremoth is still fixable, as proven by Tequatl, but it'd take a lot more time and effort and, seemingly, would require draining Primordus, Jormag, and Kralkatorrik of the power they took.

 

And we wouldn't be able to ally with Balthazar anyways because he wanted the power for himself, and doing so would destabilize The All. It's more than just about magic, but *specific* magic, apparently. Unless Eir's urging left something out, which would entirely change the message that her message from Glint left about replacing Kralkatorrik.

 

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > i'm fairly certain that was just the spear

> > If it is, then it apparently had a bunch of functions that no one knew about.

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Memories_of_Vlast

> > Vlast: To hold the weapon is to hold the fate of Tyria in your hands—the power to change the shape of the world.

> > Vlast: Potent enough to fell the Elder Dragons. Its might should not be taken lightly.

> > Vlast: It was created so mortals could do the work of dragons, of our line.

> > Vlast: To combat cataclysmic power and prevent the destruction of all life.

> > Vlast: He seeks it for the wrong purpose. We're not ready.

>

> i'm pretty sure all of this referes to it being able to kill kralk

>

> also he said that it laid in the shadow of the prophet which i'm certain of is referring to the place glint died

 

Shadow of the Prophet is pretty ambiguous. Could mean where Glint died, sure, but it could also mean where her history was, the lands/people she had influenced, etc. From Zephyrites, to Exalted, to her lair, to Orr, it's all potential locations.

 

However, what Vlast says refers to a lot more than killing Kralkatorrik. Killing Kralkatorrik doesn't include the power to change the shape of the world, nor is it able to fell Elder Dragon**s** - plural - and it's pretty vague if what Vlast meant by "so mortals could do the work of dragons, of our line" was simply "kill Kralkatorrik", since the work of dragons is more about balancing magic than killing his grandfather.