Master Ketsu.4569 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Deadeye is more or less an example of how something doesn't need to be OP to be bad for the game. Is it unbeatable? No. In fact it often sucks against organized teams. But in WvW it's absolute cancer to play against. Perma stealth on a long ranged assassin is just something that doesn't need to exist. It shouldn't be nerfed, but it should be reworked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan.9421 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > Deadeye is more or less an example of how something doesn't need to be OP to be bad for the game. > > Is it unbeatable? No. In fact it often sucks against organized teams. > > But in WvW it's absolute cancer to play against. Perma stealth on a long ranged assassin is just something that doesn't need to exist. > > It shouldn't be nerfed, but it should be reworked. It was reworked. Anet changed the way malice builds because people complained daily about deadeye because deadeye did exactly what it was designed to do. And, instead of learning to play the class and learning how to counter it people just took to the forums and cried for nerfs, just like they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiah.3091 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 **_"Learn to counter the deadeye_** These words are being repeated in this thread every 2nd post. But for kitten sake, can someone explain **WHAT THAT MEANS?** In a fair and square 1v1, where I know what I play against, where I have cooldowns up, the right build with reflects, where there are no other people - I beat any DE. Well, the fight is going to be annoying, stressfull and not fun, but I'll bet them eventually. I play mostly power mirage, but I don't think the class matters really. Anyone can beat the DE 1v1. So, if **THAT** is what you mean, when saying "l2p" - please, go kitten yourself. However what DE shines at: is simply +1 the fight. And at this role I don't think it can be effectively countered **in a soloq.** 20k damage in 1 second from 1500. Stealth and reposition in case of danger. Stealthly move between points, so you can't really prepare. You basically have to always be afeaid of being 1shotted by a DE, **while fighting someone else** Peesonally, I don't think it's a fun gameply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Tiah.3091" said: > **_"Learn to counter the deadeye_** > These words are being repeated in this thread every 2nd post. > > But for kitten sake, can someone explain **WHAT THAT MEANS?** > > **In a fair and square 1v1, where I know what I play against, where I have cooldowns up, the right build with reflects, where there are no other people - I beat any DE.** Well, the fight is going to be annoying, stressfull and not fun, but I'll bet them eventually. > > I play mostly power mirage, but I don't think the class matters really. **Anyone can beat the DE 1v1**. > So, if **THAT** is what you mean, when saying "l2p" - please, go kitten yourself. > > However what DE shines at: is simply +1 the fight. > And at this role I don't think it can be effectively countered **in a soloq.** > 20k damage in 1 second from 1500. Stealth and reposition in case of danger. Stealthly move between points, so you can't really prepare. > >_You basically have to always be afeaid of being 1shotted by a DE_, **while fighting someone else** > > Peesonally, I don't think it's a fun gameply. > wat are you trying to say? "no fair DE helped someone kill me...wahhhh!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicast.1459 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 21k on 1 shot yesterday on my Guardian. My shield was blocking nothing. I got consistently raped in 2 sec max.(like the video above) Finding Los in 2sec is not always feasible... As soon as I got the mark I pulled my f3 to reflect...was dead before...this of course from full life bar. I need to l2p...and anet needs to slaughter this profession.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Kicast.1459" said: > 21k on 1 shot yesterday on my Guardian. > My shield was blocking nothing. > I got consistently kitten in 2 sec max.(like the video above) > Finding Los in 2sec is not always feasible... > As soon as I got the mark I pulled my f3 to reflect...was dead before...this of course from full life bar. > I need to l2p...and anet needs to slaughter this profession.? im sure you have no problem splashing into a group on core and 1 shotting 4-5 folks though..all good and well, nothing to see here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiah.3091 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > wat are you trying to say? > > "no fair DE helped someone kill me...wahhhh!" Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Because if there is any other +1 coming to an even fight, you can at least disengage. In case of DE you can't see it coming, and when you notice him - it's when he marks your ass, and at this point it's already too late (because stealth, duh). And then you're dead in 1-2 seconds. Also, any other +1 you can intercept between points and kill. While DE you either can't see at all, or you attack him and he just stealth, and run in opposite direction. **You can't effectively hunt and shut down DE in soloq, while he can easily hunt and shut you down solo.** Well, same effectively applies to all thieves with decent amount of stealth, obviously. But only DE can 1shot you on top of that. Which is annoying as fuck. ------- Now. Please, oh pretty please, tell me how DE lacks damage and how 19-20k DJs and 10k spammable 3RB (with mara, not bers amulet) are **my fault,** because I play something less tanky, than Spellbreaker, Holo or Boonbeast. --- P.S. @""Crab Fear.1624" Seriously though, those very few people, who protect DE as vigorously, as you do, are fucking pathetic. Same btw, applies to literally ANY broken class, and/or build: like Mirage, Holo, Boonbeast, Spellbreaker, etc. This game needs ~~jesus~~ nerfs. Like ALOT of HUGE nerfs across the whole class base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Tiah.3091" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > wat are you trying to say? > > > > "no fair DE helped someone kill me...wahhhh!" > > Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. > > Because if there is any other +1 coming to an even fight, you can at least disengage. > > In case of DE you can't see it coming, and when you notice him - it's when he marks your kitten, and at this point it's already too late (because stealth, duh). > And then you're dead in 1-2 seconds. > > Also, any other +1 you can intercept between points and kill. > While DE you either can't see at all, or you attack him and he just stealth, and run in opposite direction. > > **You can't effectively hunt and shut down DE in soloq, while he can easily hunt and shut you down solo.** > > Well, same effectively applies to all thieves with decent amount of stealth, obviously. > But only DE can 1shot you on top of that. > Which is annoying as kitten. > > ------- > Now. Please, oh pretty please, tell me how DE lacks damage and how 19-20k DJs and 10k spammable 3RB (with mara, not bers amulet) are **my fault,** because I play something less tanky, than Spellbreaker, Holo or Boonbeast. > > --- > P.S. > @""Crab Fear.1624" > Seriously though, those very few people, who protect DE as vigorously, as you do, are kitten pathetic. > > Same btw, applies to literally ANY broken class, and/or build: like Mirage, Holo, Boonbeast, Spellbreaker, etc. > > This game needs ~~jesus~~ nerfs. Like ALOT of HUGE nerfs across the whole class base. oh? then dont be silent about those classes cause i just put a thread up about them haha i play core thief and sometimes daredevil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"Kicast.1459" said: > > 21k on 1 shot yesterday on my Guardian. > > My shield was blocking nothing. > > I got consistently kitten in 2 sec max.(like the video above) > > Finding Los in 2sec is not always feasible... > > As soon as I got the mark I pulled my f3 to reflect...was dead before...this of course from full life bar. > > I need to l2p...and anet needs to slaughter this profession.? > > im sure you have no problem splashing into a group on core and 1 shotting 4-5 folks though..all good and well, nothing to see here But that's balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Tiah.3091" said: > Because if there is any other +1 coming to an even fight, you can at least disengage. What prevents you from disengaging in this particular situation? > In case of DE you can't see it coming, and when you notice him - it's when he marks your kitten, and at this point it's already too late (because stealth, duh). > And then you're dead in 1-2 seconds. Well, too bad you had to spend all your defensive cooldowns in a 1v1 and ended up vulnerable to reinforcements. > Also, any other +1 you can intercept between points and kill. > While DE you either can't see at all, or you attack him and he just stealth, and run in opposite direction. Are you trying to say the deadeye who spends all endurance, blinding powder, shadow refuge and whatnot just to make it from one node to another is somehow more dangerous than the one with skills and dodge rolls ready? Because it's either "cannot be intercepted between points" or "can stealth whenever pressured". > **You can't effectively hunt and shut down DE in soloq, while he can easily hunt and shut you down solo.** Yeah, that's the theme of the deadeye. > Now. Please, oh pretty please, tell me how DE lacks damage and how 19-20k DJs and 10k spammable 3RB (with mara, not bers amulet) are **my fault,** because I play something less tanky, than Spellbreaker, Holo or Boonbeast. When you choose not to play a tanky build, you must come prepared to face the dangers of running a glass cannon build. You want to both do high damage and survive well? Get better at the game. (Joining the deadeye army is an option, you're gonna learn how to counter them, too.) > P.S. > @""Crab Fear.1624" > Seriously though, those very few people, who protect DE as vigorously, as you do, are kitten pathetic. Am not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiah.3091 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiah.3091 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Airdive.2613" said: > What prevents you from disengaging in this particular situation? > Umm... being dead? > Yeah, that's the theme of the deadeye. > Can A-Net, OH PLEASE, create an elite **specialization, whose theme is to** _"oneshot everything in 1200 radius AND inflict 5 stacks of burning and 3s of knockdown in 2400 radius"?_ I always dreamt of roleplaying a **nuclear bomb.** Im begging right naow, A-Net! > When you choose not to play a tanky build, you must come prepared to face the dangers of running a glass cannon build. You want to both do high damage and survive well? ~~Get better at the game.~~ > **PLAY HOLO** Corrected that for you, please don't thank me. Also, yes, I do remember, that you think, that oneshots are an OK thing to have in a competitive PvP in an MMO. Please, go on! > (Joining the deadeye army is an option, you're gonna learn how to counter them, too.) I did join DE army, yes. A couple of months ago and played it for 2 weeks straight. And that's explicitly the reason, why I'm writing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > @"Kicast.1459" said: > > > 21k on 1 shot yesterday on my Guardian. > > > My shield was blocking nothing. > > > I got consistently kitten in 2 sec max.(like the video above) > > > Finding Los in 2sec is not always feasible... > > > As soon as I got the mark I pulled my f3 to reflect...was dead before...this of course from full life bar. > > > I need to l2p...and anet needs to slaughter this profession.? > > > > im sure you have no problem splashing into a group on core and 1 shotting 4-5 folks though..all good and well, nothing to see here > > But that's balanced. A 4 second wind up time burst, on no one above 15k HP threshold with no means of disengage. No access to stealth and pretty low consistent damage. Yes, I'd say core guard is balanced. On top of that, you need to stand within 240 range of "4-5" other people in order to one shot a team. Stop being ridiculous, it doesn't make you look smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > @"Kicast.1459" said: > > > > 21k on 1 shot yesterday on my Guardian. > > > > My shield was blocking nothing. > > > > I got consistently kitten in 2 sec max.(like the video above) > > > > Finding Los in 2sec is not always feasible... > > > > As soon as I got the mark I pulled my f3 to reflect...was dead before...this of course from full life bar. > > > > I need to l2p...and anet needs to slaughter this profession.? > > > > > > im sure you have no problem splashing into a group on core and 1 shotting 4-5 folks though..all good and well, nothing to see here > > > > But that's balanced. > > A 4 second wind up time burst, on no one above 15k HP threshold with no means of disengage. No access to stealth and pretty low consistent damage. Yes, I'd say core guard is balanced. > On top of that, you need to stand within 240 range of "4-5" other people in order to one shot a team. > > Stop being ridiculous, it doesn't make you look smart. Keep ya welts on, I was joking :-/ I don't even main de. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Tiah.3091" said: > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > What prevents you from disengaging in this particular situation? > > > Umm... being dead? How is it different from getting killed by some other dedicated +1? > > When you choose not to play a tanky build, you must come prepared to face the dangers of running a glass cannon build. You want to both do high damage and survive well? ~~Get better at the game.~~ > > **PLAY HOLO** > Corrected that for you, please don't thank me. > Also, yes, I do remember, that you think, that oneshots are an OK thing to have in a competitive PvP in an MMO. Please, go on! Play holo if it works for you, I don't mind it and I don't find it funny. > > (Joining the deadeye army is an option, you're gonna learn how to counter them, too.) > I did join DE army, yes. A couple of months ago and played it for 2 weeks straight. And that's explicitly the reason, why I'm writing that. Why did you stop playing deadeye, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiah.3091 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Airdive.2613" said: > Why did you stop playing deadeye, then? Probably because it's boring as fuck? Pretty much like any other one-shot spec. Like core guard, or (now nerfed) mantra mesmer. Because oneshots suck smelly balls and suppose zero **INTERACTIVITY** between two players. **I'll elaborate:** When you do something to an enemy player (e.g., burst, or CC), they supposed to have some form of **ACTIVE** counterplay to it. Cast a damage mitigating buff/ability to counter a burst damage, or a stunbreak for disables. But in case of a **oneshot** an enemy doesn't have time for that. He's dead and can't do shit about it. The only 2 counters to oneshot are passive one: **STATS** and **AWARENESS.** There's no **INTERACTION** between players, no action, no anything. Same by the way, applies in case of stealth, where you want to engage a thief or a mesmer, and they just avoid interaction with you, and you can't really do anything about that. As a pve mechanic - it's perfectly fine. But in pvp it's just simply BORING to play with and against. That's why I don't have stealth on any of my chars. ---- TLDR: **INTERACTION** between players is a key to fun and engaging gameplay. DE (and some other specs) provide none of that. And therefore ARE boring to play with and against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Tiah.3091" said: > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > Why did you stop playing deadeye, then? > Probably because it's boring as kitten? Pretty much like any other one-shot spec. Like core guard, or (now nerfed) mantra mesmer. Because oneshots suck smelly balls and suppose zero **INTERACTIVITY** between two players. > **I'll elaborate:** > When you do something to an enemy player (e.g., burst, or CC), they supposed to have some form of **ACTIVE** counterplay to it. Cast a damage mitigating buff/ability to counter a burst damage, or a stunbreak for disables. > But in case of a **oneshot** an enemy doesn't have time for that. He's dead and can't do kitten about it. > The only 2 counters to oneshot are passive one: **STATS** and **AWARENESS.** There's no **INTERACTION** between players, no action, no anything. > > Same by the way, applies in case of stealth, where you want to engage a thief or a mesmer, and they just avoid interaction with you, and you can't really do anything about that. > As a pve mechanic - it's perfectly fine. But in pvp it's just simply BORING to play with and against. > That's why I don't have stealth on any of my chars. > > ---- > TLDR: > **INTERACTION** between players is a key to fun and engaging gameplay. DE (and some other specs) provide none of that. And therefore ARE boring to play with and against them. You are right about interaction, though I still find fighting a deadeye engaging. Yes, the deadeye applies sort of a soft aggro to the marked player ("pay attention to deadeye and deadeye only, or else you die"), but after that it's your turn to show them what you're made of. It is interaction still, but the deadeye chooses who and when is going to interact with them, which is somewhat applicable to thieves in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syszery.1592 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Tiah.3091" said: > Can A-Net, OH PLEASE, create an elite **specialization, whose theme is to** _"oneshot everything in 1200 radius AND inflict 5 stacks of burning and 3s of knockdown in 2400 radius"?_ > I always dreamt of roleplaying a **nuclear bomb.** > Im begging right naow, A-Net! > Why the burning and knockdown if it already 1-shots? I mean when going into downstate all the conditions are removed anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dDuff.3860 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Ppl keeps dieing to berserker's amulet deadeyes and consider deadeye being a problem because of that. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiah.3091 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"dDuff.3860" said: > Ppl keeps dieing to berserker's amulet deadeyes and consider deadeye being a problem because of that. lol. Marauder amulet is literally **10% less damage overall**, than a Berserker amulet. Please, tell me how 18k vs 20k damage Death Judgement, or 9k vs 10k 3RB make so much of a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Tiah.3091" said: > > @"dDuff.3860" said: > > Ppl keeps dieing to berserker's amulet deadeyes and consider deadeye being a problem because of that. lol. > > Marauder amulet is literally **10% less damage overall**, than a Berserker amulet. Please, tell me how 18k vs 20k damage Death Judgement, or 9k vs 10k 3RB make so much of a difference? what is that 10% based off? i am pretty sure the difference is much greater considering the traited crit chances deadeye can have wich make precision rather weak as an offensive stat - especially for oneshots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Tiah.3091" said: > **_"Learn to counter the deadeye_** > These words are being repeated in this thread every 2nd post. > > But for kitten sake, can someone explain **WHAT THAT MEANS?** It means being able to anticipate where and when the enemy DE will attack. For example: enemy DE is known to play with lots of stealth, and his icon disappeared from mid. You're dueling on a sidenode? Expect incoming within 3-4 seconds, get into position to kite/LoS the projectiles. But of course you can also pretend thats impossible, and say things like: > @"Tiah.3091" said: > Seriously though, those very few people, who protect DE as vigorously, as you do, are kitten pathetic. >TLDR: >INTERACTION between players is a key to fun and engaging gameplay. DE (and some other specs) provide none of that. And therefore ARE boring to play with and against them. Just because you can't see the enemy, it's still there. Trying to open with a rifle means they need to have an angle on you. Use your own movements to force theirs... Positioning is a mindgame. If you need a nice picture of the enemy in the middle of your screen to interact with them, no wonder you're having problems against DE. About it being fun... We can't possibly help you with that, it's subjective. I enjoy rattling DE-s out of stealth, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celestia.9128 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"dDuff.3860" said: > Ppl keeps dieing to berserker's amulet deadeyes and consider deadeye being a problem because of that. lol. Remember that good ol' time when teefs got one-shotted in droves to zerker vanilla DH traps and went on forum to cry nerf? Damn it's going full circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicast.1459 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"Kicast.1459" said: > > 21k on 1 shot yesterday on my Guardian. > > My shield was blocking nothing. > > I got consistently kitten in 2 sec max.(like the video above) > > Finding Los in 2sec is not always feasible... > > As soon as I got the mark I pulled my f3 to reflect...was dead before...this of course from full life bar. > > I need to l2p...and anet needs to slaughter this profession.? > > im sure you have no problem splashing into a group on core and 1 shotting 4-5 folks though..all good and well, nothing to see here Did some thief have a secret build doing 24 k one shot with guards or is this just false assumptions of some player wanting their toy kept safe from the inevitable major nerf ? (thieves business as usual) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dDuff.3860 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Tiah.3091" said: > > @"dDuff.3860" said: > > Ppl keeps dieing to berserker's amulet deadeyes and consider deadeye being a problem because of that. lol. > > Marauder amulet is literally **10% less damage overall**, than a Berserker amulet. Please, tell me how 18k vs 20k damage Death Judgement, or 9k vs 10k 3RB make so much of a difference? The difference lies in the capability to one shot. With scholar maradeur you required to land your burst perfectly in order to attempt one-shot With berserker you need half of the combo or even another combo to perform attempt. And it is really like 10% more damage in a trade for 6k hp. Considering maradeur rifle can land it in one shot. There's like no sense to play around berserker. So the difference here is in ease of one-shotting capability. > @"Celestia.9128" said: > > @"dDuff.3860" said: > > Ppl keeps dieing to berserker's amulet deadeyes and consider deadeye being a problem because of that. lol. > > Remember that good ol' time when teefs got one-shotted in droves to zerker vanilla DH traps and went on forum to cry nerf? kitten it's going full circle. > Aren't you still dieing to 3 trap combo when caught on point without CDs? Back there, it was bugged with F2 shield and TS boosted damage. But game-powercreeped from then. You won't wonder anyone with this cheese anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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