Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Fix elixir U bug, or update the tooltip - the lazy's fix. Remove quickness from elixir U. Nerf vigor duration. Wondering how much time it will get till this thread gets deleted just as the previous holos threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > Remove quickness from elixir U. Wait, what? It's always added quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > Remove quickness from elixir U. > > Wait, what? It's always added quickness. I am pretty sure you know they added quickness to the toolbelt skill. And I am pretty sure he's complaining about the amount of quickness due to elixir U in total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > Remove quickness from elixir U. > > > > Wait, what? It's always added quickness. > > I am pretty sure you know they added quickness to the toolbelt skill. And I am pretty sure he's complaining about the amount of quickness due to elixir U in total. Then he should be specific about the toolbelt skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbelch.9028 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I can’t handle this post lol. Uninformed holo opinions led by the guy (OP) who not long ago posted a thread wondering why he couldn’t kill an engineer who was using AED. (Calling it exploitive LOL) I could see a few shaves to Holo, but it’s nowhere near as OP as condi mirage was for a while, warrior was for a while, along with other trololo classes. You beat Holos by dodging their hyper visible CC skills. One takes several seconds to cast (PLB), the other has a major wind up (Wave) and the last is obvious if you practice against it (Rifle). This is a pretty big L2P issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 whoops somehow duplicate posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 It's literally just the 2013 SD build except now rifle turret has turned into a protracted invuln and the build gets a tack-on weapon swap loaded with "fire and forget" buttons which passively make up for the fact that 2013 SD didn't necessarily have the consistent ability to OHKO any given player aside from maybe thieves. Basically, you get a build that's straight up 5 years old, give it 5 extra buttons which are all nothing more than hyper-overtuned, generic damage dealers and OF COURSE YOU GET A BRAINDEAD SPAM BUILD that's way too effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo.2163 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > I can’t handle this post lol. Uninformed holo opinions led by the guy (OP) who not long ago posted a thread wondering why he couldn’t kill an engineer who was using AED. (Calling it exploitive LOL) > > I could see a few shaves to Holo, but it’s nowhere near as OP as condi mirage was for a while, warrior was for a while, along with other trololo classes. You beat Holos by dodging their hyper visible CC skills. One takes several seconds to cast (PLB), the other has a major wind up (Wave) and the last is obvious if you practice against it (Rifle). > > This is a pretty big L2P issue. thumbs up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noha.3749 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > I can’t handle this post lol. Uninformed holo opinions led by the guy (OP) who not long ago posted a thread wondering why he couldn’t kill an engineer who was using AED. (Calling it exploitive LOL) > > I could see a few shaves to Holo, but it’s nowhere near as OP as condi mirage was for a while, warrior was for a while, along with other trololo classes. You beat Holos by dodging their hyper visible CC skills. One takes several seconds to cast (PLB), the other has a major wind up (Wave) and the last is obvious if you practice against it (Rifle). > > This is a pretty big L2P issue. this ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyreborn.1938 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > Remove quickness from elixir U. > > > > Wait, what? It's always added quickness. > > I am pretty sure you know they added quickness to the toolbelt skill. And I am pretty sure he's complaining about the amount of quickness due to elixir U in total. Quickness from elixir, quickness from toolbelt ,quickness from kinetic battery . Everyone who pretend holo have slow telegraphed attacks intentionally ignore fact of close to permanent quickness uptime to be true . Normalize quickness duration to 3s on trait/toss, 5s on elixir use . But I expect answer on my comment something like : we want our permaquickness gitgut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > Remove quickness from elixir U. > > > > > > Wait, what? It's always added quickness. > > > > I am pretty sure you know they added quickness to the toolbelt skill. And I am pretty sure he's complaining about the amount of quickness due to elixir U in total. > > Quickness from elixir, quickness from toolbelt ,quickness from kinetic battery . Everyone who pretend holo have slow telegraphed attacks intentionally ignore fact of close to permanent quickness uptime to be true . Normalize quickness duration to 3s on trait/toss, 5s on elixir use . But I expect answer on my comment something like : we want our permaquickness gitgut Oh, I agree. I do think holo should get (some) nerfs. But on the other hand, so do several other oppressive meta builds, so...yaah. Nerf them all for more build diversity. :smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > Remove quickness from elixir U. > > > > > > Wait, what? It's always added quickness. > > > > I am pretty sure you know they added quickness to the toolbelt skill. And I am pretty sure he's complaining about the amount of quickness due to elixir U in total. > > Quickness from elixir, quickness from toolbelt ,quickness from kinetic battery . Everyone who pretend holo have slow telegraphed attacks intentionally ignore fact of close to permanent quickness uptime to be true . Normalize quickness duration to 3s on trait/toss, 5s on elixir use . But I expect answer on my comment something like : we want our permaquickness gitgut I actually don't think most engineer mains liked the change to the toolbelt skill for Elixir U. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodie.1045 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > Remove quickness from elixir U. > > > > > > > > Wait, what? It's always added quickness. > > > > > > I am pretty sure you know they added quickness to the toolbelt skill. And I am pretty sure he's complaining about the amount of quickness due to elixir U in total. > > > > Quickness from elixir, quickness from toolbelt ,quickness from kinetic battery . Everyone who pretend holo have slow telegraphed attacks intentionally ignore fact of close to permanent quickness uptime to be true . Normalize quickness duration to 3s on trait/toss, 5s on elixir use . But I expect answer on my comment something like : we want our permaquickness gitgut > > I actually don't think most engineer mains liked the change to the toolbelt skill for Elixir U. Then again, nobody liked the RNG aspect on Toss Elixir U either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 > @"Hoodie.1045" said: > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > Remove quickness from elixir U. > > > > > > > > > > Wait, what? It's always added quickness. > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure you know they added quickness to the toolbelt skill. And I am pretty sure he's complaining about the amount of quickness due to elixir U in total. > > > > > > Quickness from elixir, quickness from toolbelt ,quickness from kinetic battery . Everyone who pretend holo have slow telegraphed attacks intentionally ignore fact of close to permanent quickness uptime to be true . Normalize quickness duration to 3s on trait/toss, 5s on elixir use . But I expect answer on my comment something like : we want our permaquickness gitgut > > > > I actually don't think most engineer mains liked the change to the toolbelt skill for Elixir U. > > Then again, nobody liked the RNG aspect on Toss Elixir U either. I kinda did? Both the wall and the smoke screen had their uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus.3192 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I wish i could have the old Elixir U toss skill back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aswedishtiger.7320 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Gonna have to agree with most of the points here I tried holosmith just derping around not even taking it seriously and I was absolutely destroying people Stomping (AND reviving) under the tiny Elixir is a joke The CC and burst out of this class is just disgusting and don't get me started on that charged beam ulti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario.8964 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Holo is easy and it's op. Nobody should be defending this build (yes it's not "as bad as condi mirage was" or "other builds are op too!" but that doesn't make this build magically not op) the problem is there's not one change that's going to fix it. It's not one thing that's super overperforming (except maybe quickness uptime but as long as chrono and reaper can get perma quickness I'll let engi have theirs) but instead it's a combination of a lot of things just being a little bit too strong and all those overlaps make a monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyreborn.1938 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 > @"Ario.8964" said: What if I say chrono bunker is dead?And reaper isnt that OP/annoying as holosmith is. And they dont have perma quickness as you claim , its only 3s pulse while in shroud .No reason to leave holo quickness uptime as it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poledra Val.1490 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I would like to add here that no invun in the game (pvp wise) should not have the ability to stomp or rez. This includes distort and mistform of course. The fact that holo has one passive and one active invun makes it just ever so slightly on the rediculous side. I also find it mildly amusing how Photon Wall has a massively lower cooldown then DH's F3 Shield skill (which does the same thing), plus that is a holos utility skill on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoSpyro.1780 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 > @"Hoodie.1045" said: > Then again, nobody liked the RNG aspect on Toss Elixir U either. Say what you will about getting absorbs when you want a deflect, but projectile denial is still projectile denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario.8964 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > @"Ario.8964" said: > What if I say chrono bunker is dead?And reaper isnt that OP/annoying as holosmith is. And they dont have perma quickness as you claim , its only 3s pulse while in shroud .No reason to leave holo quickness uptime as it is Okay, then tell me this: why do you think quickness is the problem? How would reducing only quickness uptime fix holosmith? I will say with plenty of confidence that I can name a bunch of things that ought to be fixed but you seem pretty confident quickness is the problem so I would like to know why it is the only problem you see with holo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
googel.3278 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 I thought this PvP section is just solely bashing on mirages. More nerf holosmith topics inc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyreborn.1938 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 > @"Ario.8964" said: > > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > What if I say chrono bunker is dead?And reaper isnt that OP/annoying as holosmith is. And they dont have perma quickness as you claim , its only 3s pulse while in shroud .No reason to leave holo quickness uptime as it is > > Okay, then tell me this: why do you think quickness is the problem? How would reducing only quickness uptime fix holosmith? I will say with plenty of confidence that I can name a bunch of things that ought to be fixed but you seem pretty confident quickness is the problem so I would like to know why it is the only problem you see with holo. I see this as only one part of a problem . If anythin Id refer to @coro.3176 post . But hilarious that you say permaquickness is fine because reaper have pulsing quickness in shroud :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arioch.4810 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Good Holosmith players use quickness to land their CC kit, or at least to improve significantly chances of landing it. Tinkering with quickness uptime could change some matchups for holo, but it would probably be felt only at middle tier(s) of PvP - good players would simply align their quickness windows with key fights. You don't need quickness while enemy team is respawning :) Changing holosmith's play by shaving some CC or some dmg could be more viable approach. Bringing big burst to teamfights OR cc chain that can turn the tide for your team if you catch 2+ players in it. Before changing anything I would buff core Engi. By a lot - i can't remember when i saw one in PvP. If you start tinkering with elite spec, profession must have viable other choices for players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyreborn.1938 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 > @"Arioch.4810" said: > Good Holosmith players use quickness to land their CC kit, or at least to improve significantly chances of landing it. > Tinkering with quickness uptime could change some matchups for holo, but it would probably be felt only at middle tier(s) of PvP - good players would simply align their quickness windows with key fights. You don't need quickness while enemy team is respawning :) > > Changing holosmith's play by shaving some CC or some dmg could be more viable approach. Bringing big burst to teamfights OR cc chain that can turn the tide for your team if you catch 2+ players in it. > Before changing anything I would buff core Engi. By a lot - i can't remember when i saw one in PvP. If you start tinkering with elite spec, profession must have viable other choices for players. > So you say permanent quickness(or close to permanent) is a point of balacing holo? What they were doing without this quickness elixir before? Being unviable? Aside quickness of course damage/CC need to be toned down imo Why they have to buff core engi? You cant buff 'core' without boosting in power holosmith builds . You say you never seen core engis? So I havent seen core revenants ,core mesmers , necromancer since forever . They are unplayble(tho core necro isnt entirely bad after constant buffs to core shroud) Since elite specs were introduced butchering core spec to bring down elite spec power thats a common thing ,deal with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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