No downed WvW... Permanently

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Downed state cannot be removed without also removing these gimmicky quick kill builds.

 

This isn't a shooting game with 1-3 skills per character. The maps aren't designed to take cover. There is no bodyblocks and people can teleport around like crazy.

There's many skills and people should have a chance to use them before they go down.

 

There would have to be a turning time for player characters (like how mounts have a turning time, but way faster for players), fixing immobilize so using skills doesn't make players turn around to face the target, drastically changing stealth with mechanics that make it partially visible like a decay time that keeps full invisibility limited to 2s, bodyblocking, completely reworking maps and projectile weapons to work with cover, drastically changing teleports to give them limitations and counters...

 

And since bodyblocking can't be added for technical reasons, and it's one of the things that would needed to be added to make the kind of game in which fast kills under 2s can be allowed, people will have to choose between those builds and downed state, since downed state is currently the only working counter for them.

[BlueMelody.6398]

If you're going to make a serious poll about this, at least try to word it with some semblance of neutrality.

[EvilSardine.9635]

The downed state only helps the larger groups that already have an advantage. Why is it in WvW? If I'm doing a 1v3 and I down one of them, he just gets rezzed by the other two and gets up with decent health and now I lose.

 

Remove the downed state. You should not punish the smaller groups.

[Usagi.4835]

> @"EvilSardine.9635" said:

> The downed state only helps the larger groups that already have an advantage. Why is it in WvW? If I'm doing a 1v3 and I down one of them, he just gets rezzed by the other two and gets up with decent health and now I lose.

>

> Remove the downed state. You should not punish the smaller groups.

 

No, it doesn't. It's not as simple as that. Removing downed state would also imbalance the mode in favour of some classes/builds over others. Soulbeasts with decent reaction times would probably instakill Deadeyes, Mirages and Eles. And it'd be the other way round too. I don't know what class you play but if you lack cleave and can't stealth/stab-stomp, you're not going to secure that kill. The problem _isn't_ downed state as most downed state abilities are useless anyway, barring some like _Vapor Form_ and _Lick Wounds_. The problem is partially because of rez traits and rez utilities, which are themselves slightly skewed, and I'd wager that the problem isn't so much downed state as it is these skills or perhaps the people one runs with generally.

 

Take, for instance, large-scale fights. Most groups will have bunker chronos who run _Illusion of Life_ and perhaps scourges who traited Transfusion, though I think most people don't trait into Blood Magic anymore. Both are quite a bit better than the other options available to you. With Transfusion, Death Shroud 4 will instantly teleport characters to you while you're channelling and is 1200 range. _Illusion of Life_ has a greater range, significantly shorter cast-time and lower cooldown than other similar utility skills:

 

* _Illusion of Life_ has a 1¼ second cast-time (shorter still since they're likely to have quickness), 1200 range, 240 radius and the lowest cooldown time of any of the rez utilities at 75 seconds untraited (or 60 seconds, if traited for Master of Manipulations, which most chronos will be)

* _Glyph of Renewal_ has the longest cast-time at 3¼ seconds, 900 range, 180 radius (except for _Renewal of Earth_ which has a 360 radius) and a cooldown of 90 seconds untraited, 72 seconds when traited for Inscription

* _Signet of Undeath_ has a 3 second cast-time, 900 range and 180 radius; there's no flat cooldown reduction for traiting for Signets of Suffering but a conditional 4% reduction every second you're in shroud

 

Either they normalise the skills across the board or lower their impact. Realistically, nobody runs _Glyph of Renewal_ because the cast-time is too long. Same for _Signet of Undeath_ which is outclassed by Transfusion. The main offender is really _Illusion of Life_ which is a get-out-of-jail-free card and I think the cast time should be increased to at least 2 seconds. For small-scale, yes, it's annoying but oftentimes it's a case of who pays attention to their surroundings and minimap and reacts more quickly to either rez their teammates or cleave the downed/s.

[Mewcifer.5198]

These poll options are terrible.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"coro.3176" said:

> No.

>

> Scrapper's ENTIRE kitten CLASS MECHANIC is reviving and stomping. That is already useless in PvE, and situational in PvP/WvW. If down state was removed, it would have to be reworked.

 

I like my unicorn finisher too

[daydreamer.3092]

without downstate it would be a more casual and less fun game. Today we cant only build for burst and retreat when 1vx. Instead you have to use traits, skills and player skill to control the combat. Without downstate there would be less build diversity and more boredom.

[Jables.4659]

Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I found WvW far more enjoyable during the no downstate event. Sure, a lot of people were running glass cannon insta-gib builds, but that's also a fairly common thing without the event. The main appeal of no downstate is that it makes 1vX and outnumbered fighting a lot more manageable, and I suspect this is the exact reason that so many people oppose it. GW2 is by and large a casual MMORPG, and most people haven't dedicated thousands of hours into a single class. For those people, no downstate means that they're going to be spending a lot more time running back to their groups. Since so many traits/skills are tied to the mechanic of downstate, its unlikely that Anet would ever consider it beyond a limited event. I think a more reasonable request of Anet would be (as mentioned already) tweaking the downstate mechanic in WvW so that its less punishing to those of us who get our jolly's by taking on larger groups.

[Ardid.7203]

Downstate is part of the game, as it is the Scrapper.

Love it of hate it, the point is you don't fix things just by mutilating them. Just taking downstate away will not fix WvW. There has to be a better option.

[Kirnale.5914]

Terrible idea.

 

1.) Population cut down in WvW. We are short on people as it is, we don't need another reason to lose player base in WvW.

2.) One shots in all forms. Be it zerg, or roaming. As long as they exist, it will make this an unpleasant experience. I remember getting one shot by a single player while I was in the middle of my zerg lol. Worst is, they can easily get away doing so. This promotes going even more tanky setup and some classes, like the ele, will be kicked out completely.

3.) Hardcore commander focus. Never seen that many before. Another unfun experience, and no downstate promotes it well. Usually coms can be safed with merciful, but that skill becomes useless.

4.) Lot's of skills become useless, and require Anet's overhaul. This takes time from more important things such as alliance.

 

Skill is one thing (argueable), but it's just unfun and promote toxic gameplay. If you want to prove your skills that much, just duel some top tier players. Pretty sure some of them are willing to, no need to cut down zerglings that have no interest in dueling anyways. As for zerging skills, it doesn't make a difference, as the worst zerg always loses against the better one. And a good guild can still take on a zerg with much higher numbers but worse skill.

 

It is potentially a thing, but not in the current state.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

downed state is an integral part of the game. you want nerfs? fine nerf it.

no downed state should only be a once a week thing. maybe on the weekends.

[Silverkung.9127]

No daownstate good for fun!

 

But remover forever? NO...big of N O!!

all everything will go oneshot build and troll forever.

All another status gear is useless because everything forcus spec on kill or get kill.

We need another idea for WvW week.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Dude if there were no more downstate I would just play retaliation meditation guard in Valkyrie/Knight and do Blitzkrieg 1vs20 easy.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> Dude if there were no more downstate I would just play retaliation meditation guard in Valkyrie/Knight and do Blitzkrieg 1vs20 easy.

 

Aha, I made that build for the first time this past weekend, you ain't joking that kitty is easy as cat to play. Though Guardian has always really had the most easy-to-learn hand-holding builds x3

[Kylden Ar.3724]

Downstate needs to stay.

 

What needs to happen in WvW though is that when you die, you can't respawn on that map, you have to go to a different one (for at least, like, 5 minutes). Home BL would be the exception (home spawn always available).

 

Break up the EBG focus and force people to the other maps more, and also force map rotation and end the stupid constantly running back to keep hitting the same keep for 2 hours till it's run out of supply or give a care.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

this poll is biased as heck, apparently in OP's little world the only reason one would want the core game mechanics to not be removed permanently out of single game mode is "me likey to be ressed continuously by me bloba of 60"......

 

yeah sure.

[Sansar.1302]

It is a good mecanic in pve and SPvP but it must be removed in WvW

[anduriell.6280]

Another weekend against blob servers another weekend where this mechanic carry blobs so hard your group can't do anything.... Not defend, not fight not anything. Just quit.

[Baldrick.8967]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> > >

> > > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

> >

> > Polls are trash.

>

> Depends on how they're structured this one seems pretty simple to me.

 

The poll is clearly biased towards no down state.

 

There is no vote option of 'leave it as it is, it's fine', rather the leave it option spouts on about being ressed by a zone blob.

 

Removing down state would be fine if you remove one shot builds, completely rework or remove stealth, restrict max damage from skills and reduce condi bombs and rework boons and boon strips. As that's not going to happen, removing downed state will just encourage yet more cheese builds and do nothing for the game mode except make even more gank squads.

[Israel.7056]

> @"Baldrick.8967" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> > > >

> > > > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

> > >

> > > Polls are trash.

> >

> > Depends on how they're structured this one seems pretty simple to me.

>

> The poll is clearly biased towards no down state.

>

> There is no vote option of 'leave it as it is, it's fine', rather the leave it option spouts on about being ressed by a zone blob.

>

> Removing down state would be fine if you remove one shot builds, completely rework or remove stealth, restrict max damage from skills and reduce condi bombs and rework boons and boon strips. As that's not going to happen, removing downed state will just encourage yet more cheese builds and do nothing for the game mode except make even more gank squads.

 

All the people claiming to be consistently dying to so called "one shot" builds are bad players imo they're going to get rolled no matter what until they l2p.

 

I spent probably 6 hrs a day fighting non stop during no downed state week with 150+ ping on eu servers and I got 100-0d maybe 6 or 7 times total on a rev and it was always my fault.

 

Most of the people left playing this game are so bad that they can't deal with simple mmo things like burst or stealth and no downed state just filters them out faster because they can't get carried by resses when they fail a dodge or don't los properly or waste defensives etc.

 

If you're worried about not being able to compete without downed state that is a reflection on your own skill level not a problem with the game itself.

[zinkz.7045]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> > @"Baldrick.8967" said:

> > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> > > > >

> > > > > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

> > > >

> > > > Polls are trash.

> > >

> > > Depends on how they're structured this one seems pretty simple to me.

> >

> > The poll is clearly biased towards no down state.

> >

> > There is no vote option of 'leave it as it is, it's fine', rather the leave it option spouts on about being ressed by a zone blob.

> >

> > Removing down state would be fine if you remove one shot builds, completely rework or remove stealth, restrict max damage from skills and reduce condi bombs and rework boons and boon strips. As that's not going to happen, removing downed state will just encourage yet more cheese builds and do nothing for the game mode except make even more gank squads.

>

> All the people claiming to be consistently dying to so called "one shot" builds are bad players imo they're going to get rolled no matter what until they l2p.

>

> I spent probably 6 hrs a day fighting non stop during no downed state week with 150+ ping on eu servers and I got 100-0d maybe 6 or 7 times total on a rev and it was always my fault.

>

> Most of the people left playing this game are so bad that they can't deal with simple mmo things like burst or stealth and no downed state just filters them out faster because they can't get carried by resses when they fail a dodge or don't los properly or waste defensives etc.

>

> If you're worried about not being able to compete without downed state that is a reflection on your own skill level not a problem with the game itself.

 

Actually downstate is just like anything else, good players handle it better than bad ones, if you aren't up to handling it so want the game made even more simple, then well...

 

Which was one of the things that differentiated the handful of properly good teams in PvP (TCG, Orange Logo, etc) and the rest, let alone the garbage that are most self proclaimed "good" WvW players and guilds.

[Israel.7056]

> @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Baldrick.8967" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

> > > > >

> > > > > Polls are trash.

> > > >

> > > > Depends on how they're structured this one seems pretty simple to me.

> > >

> > > The poll is clearly biased towards no down state.

> > >

> > > There is no vote option of 'leave it as it is, it's fine', rather the leave it option spouts on about being ressed by a zone blob.

> > >

> > > Removing down state would be fine if you remove one shot builds, completely rework or remove stealth, restrict max damage from skills and reduce condi bombs and rework boons and boon strips. As that's not going to happen, removing downed state will just encourage yet more cheese builds and do nothing for the game mode except make even more gank squads.

> >

> > All the people claiming to be consistently dying to so called "one shot" builds are bad players imo they're going to get rolled no matter what until they l2p.

> >

> > I spent probably 6 hrs a day fighting non stop during no downed state week with 150+ ping on eu servers and I got 100-0d maybe 6 or 7 times total on a rev and it was always my fault.

> >

> > Most of the people left playing this game are so bad that they can't deal with simple mmo things like burst or stealth and no downed state just filters them out faster because they can't get carried by resses when they fail a dodge or don't los properly or waste defensives etc.

> >

> > If you're worried about not being able to compete without downed state that is a reflection on your own skill level not a problem with the game itself.

>

> Actually downstate is just like anything else, good players handle it better than bad ones, if you aren't up to handling it so want the game made even more simple, then well...

>

> Which was one of the things that differentiated the handful of properly good teams in PvP (TCG, Orange Logo, etc) and the rest, let alone the garbage that are most self proclaimed "good" WvW players and guilds.

 

I have been getting carried by downed state just like everyone else all this time but i know from playing without it now that I don't need it and that downed state just slows the game down and gives second chances to players who fail in every other way at the game. Its a crutch and it needs to go. All the crutches need to go.

 

Everyone who wants to keep downed state knows they've been getting carried by it all this time and they're scared they won't be able to compete without it it's just that simple hence the endless whinging in these threads about stealth or spike damage or whatever else whenever this subject is brought up. They figure they would lose more often to builds they can't fight effectively even with downed state. It's the exact same objections every single time and they're always l2p objections.

 

 

[Heartpains.7312]

Isreal, this have nothing to do with being carried or not, and my complains will be about it will promote certain classes/builds I said this before and I will say it again.

1. Mesmers

2. Thieves

3. Engies

4. Rangers.

5. Warriors possible.

there might be other builds/classes, but I am just saying lets not promote such thing "the kill and runaway"

 

Oh and if you do that, you will end up with not having anyone to fight except those same classes and builds, I am sure you will get bored of that...

I don't know about other people but this is my opinion.

 

I will give you of example of something I did when I had someone else who is good and willing to change classes "specially since we are outnumbered". 2 condi mesmers "that's us" fighting spellbreaker and some other classes, we manage to kill the others but not spellbreaker due to the perma resistance back then with some builds, I just go out of combat and change traits so I can use the trait that makes shatters removes boons, and this is just one thing... there are a lot of these situations.

 

Also played 2 deadeyes before the changes to the deadeye, I don't want to tell you what happens when there are people who are willing to change classes and are not lacking/learning the class xD

 

 

I have fought group that had 5 holos or 6, you bring small group of their numbers that are random and see what happens ... even if you have a bit more if not certain classes or builds its just gg =)

 

Maybe if the classes changed in the future it would be okay to remove the down state.

[anduriell.6280]

> @"Heartpains.7312" said:

> Isreal, this have nothing to do with being carried or not, and my complains will be about it will promote certain classes/builds I said this before and I will say it again.

> 1. Mesmers

> 2. Thieves

> 3. Engies

> 4. Rangers.

> 5. Warriors possible.

> there might be other builds/classes, but I am just saying lets not promote such thing "the kill and runaway"

>

> Oh and if you do that, you will end up with not having anyone to fight except those same classes and builds, I am sure you will get bored of that...

> I don't know about other people but this is my opinion.

>

> I will give you of example of something I did when I had someone else who is good and willing to change classes "specially since we are outnumbered". 2 condi mesmers "that's us" fighting spellbreaker and some other classes, we manage to kill the others but not spellbreaker due to the perma resistance back then with some builds, I just go out of combat and change traits so I can use the trait that makes shatters removes boons, and this is just one thing... there are a lot of these situations.

>

> Also played 2 deadeyes before the changes to the deadeye, I don't want to tell you what happens when there are people who are willing to change classes and are not lacking/learning the class xD

>

>

> I have fought group that had 5 holos or 6, you bring small group of their numbers that are random and see what happens ... even if you have a bit more if not certain classes or builds its just gg =)

>

> Maybe if the classes changed in the future it would be okay to remove the down state.

 

So all your opinions are be based towards the classes with minor representation will have more? So what's the problem there? Right now WvW is plagued by firebrands, revenants and necros, EU maps are filled with an 80% of that and some spellbreaker and a chrono or two.

 

I don't see anything wrong there, better diversity is good. We even can begin to see some variety in the builds. Most of us (55%) see it that way.

 

Once it begins to find the real reasons are or "i can't be carried by the F to ress" or "My scourge will not be mandatory to play". Seriously thou...

 

 

[Israel.7056]

> @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > @"Baldrick.8967" said:

> > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > > > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > > > > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Polls are trash.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Depends on how they're structured this one seems pretty simple to me.

> > > > >

> > > > > The poll is clearly biased towards no down state.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is no vote option of 'leave it as it is, it's fine', rather the leave it option spouts on about being ressed by a zone blob.

> > > > >

> > > > > Removing down state would be fine if you remove one shot builds, completely rework or remove stealth, restrict max damage from skills and reduce condi bombs and rework boons and boon strips. As that's not going to happen, removing downed state will just encourage yet more cheese builds and do nothing for the game mode except make even more gank squads.

> > > >

> > > > All the people claiming to be consistently dying to so called "one shot" builds are bad players imo they're going to get rolled no matter what until they l2p.

> > > >

> > > > I spent probably 6 hrs a day fighting non stop during no downed state week with 150+ ping on eu servers and I got 100-0d maybe 6 or 7 times total on a rev and it was always my fault.

> > > >

> > > > Most of the people left playing this game are so bad that they can't deal with simple mmo things like burst or stealth and no downed state just filters them out faster because they can't get carried by resses when they fail a dodge or don't los properly or waste defensives etc.

> > > >

> > > > If you're worried about not being able to compete without downed state that is a reflection on your own skill level not a problem with the game itself.

> > >

> > > Actually downstate is just like anything else, good players handle it better than bad ones, if you aren't up to handling it so want the game made even more simple, then well...

> > >

> > > Which was one of the things that differentiated the handful of properly good teams in PvP (TCG, Orange Logo, etc) and the rest, let alone the garbage that are most self proclaimed "good" WvW players and guilds.

> >

> > I have been getting carried by downed state just like everyone else all this time but i know from playing without it now that I don't need it and that downed state just slows the game down and gives second chances to players who fail in every other way at the game. Its a crutch and it needs to go. All the crutches need to go.

> >

> > Everyone who wants to keep downed state knows they've been getting carried by it all this time and they're scared they won't be able to compete without it it's just that simple hence the endless whinging in these threads about stealth or spike damage or whatever else whenever this subject is brought up. They figure they would lose more often to builds they can't fight effectively even with downed state. It's the exact same objections every single time and they're always l2p objections.

> >

> >

>

> If you can't handle downstate that is a L2P issue, they don't need to dumb the game down just because you have issues.

>

> As for "crutches" please stop making me laugh, you are playing a game that literally aims for you, that has always been packed full of passives, where balance in WvW has always been laughably bad so cheese builds/comps carry hard and so on, if you genuinely cared about "crutches" you would not be playing this game, but you are, which speaks volumes.

>

>

 

Downed state is a crutch for me just like it is for everyone else i just know I can win without it now so I don't need it anymore. The game was much much harder for me during no downed state week but it was good because it made me a better player. Going back to downed state made me realize how much easier it makes the game and how much it dumbs down combat for me. If you got farmed during no downed state week that's on you dude just play more and you will get better.

 

Btw If there's a better rvr game out there let me know everything else ive tried has been terrible. eso was complete trash and bdo was a Korean grindfest. Maybe cu or cf will be better but until then this is the best rvr game I know of.