xan.8936 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? The latest free patch was excellent. The upcoming living story episodes will be free and I'm assuming right into season 5 as well. The gem store has good stuff but it doesn't seem to add a lot of new things each week. I spend real money on items and gold because I don't have the time but I see a lot of others just exchanging gold for gems/items. My son plays fortnight and they seem to be always milking him for money for season passes and skins coming every night. I am just so happy with arena nets business model I just hope they can keep it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaCoty.5721 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"xan.8936" said: > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? I mean.... they don't? Compared to other MMO titles, our content is very little and given sparingly. Other MMOs in the span of 3 months get a major raid, a new class, hefty open world updates. GW2 on the flip side gives a 1 hour play patch every 3-4 months, and even when they made 200% more money due to the sale of Mount Licenses, we still get extremely slowed content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Spiro.9745 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > @"xan.8936" said: > > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? > > I mean.... they don't? > > Compared to other MMO titles, our content is very little and given sparingly. Other MMOs in the span of 3 months get a major raid, a new class, hefty open world updates. GW2 on the flip side gives a 1 hour play patch every 3-4 months, and even when they made 200% more money due to the sale of Mount Licenses, we still get extremely slowed content. > Which other MMOs are we talking here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"Kal Spiro.9745" said: > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > @"xan.8936" said: > > > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? > > > > I mean.... they don't? > > > > Compared to other MMO titles, our content is very little and given sparingly. Other MMOs in the span of 3 months get a major raid, a new class, hefty open world updates. GW2 on the flip side gives a 1 hour play patch every 3-4 months, and even when they made 200% more money due to the sale of Mount Licenses, we still get extremely slowed content. > > > > Which other MMOs are we talking here? Probably WoW whch generates a non-engaging campaign with lots and lots od dungeons and raids to artificially increase play hours and can endlessly pump out new classes and races because it ultimately doesn’t matter. That, and the fact they ask you to pay for the expansion again, and again, every two months, and for the next two months, giving them a revenue that makes you think.. For their budget and staff, anet procures a lot of content. Yes, most content is casual/easy-mode meaning its an hour or two of story content for us vets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaCoty.5721 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"Kal Spiro.9745" said: > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > @"xan.8936" said: > > > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? > > > > I mean.... they don't? > > > > Compared to other MMO titles, our content is very little and given sparingly. Other MMOs in the span of 3 months get a major raid, a new class, hefty open world updates. GW2 on the flip side gives a 1 hour play patch every 3-4 months, and even when they made 200% more money due to the sale of Mount Licenses, we still get extremely slowed content. > > > > Which other MMOs are we talking here? ESO - Playerhousing, new trials, new dungeons, new zones, revamped LFG system (twice) etc.. WoW - in the span of 3 months, 2 new raids, 9 bosses, new races / classes, 6 new sub-races, 10 dungeons + 2 more coming. BDO - New classes, world zones, world bosses, expansions that are indicative of their genre. I appreciate Guild Wars 2, it's a game with truly unique systems and story, but, the content delivery even after a major influx of money is still slow and not valued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > @"Kal Spiro.9745" said: > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > @"xan.8936" said: > > > > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? > > > > > > I mean.... they don't? > > > > > > Compared to other MMO titles, our content is very little and given sparingly. Other MMOs in the span of 3 months get a major raid, a new class, hefty open world updates. GW2 on the flip side gives a 1 hour play patch every 3-4 months, and even when they made 200% more money due to the sale of Mount Licenses, we still get extremely slowed content. > > > > > > > Which other MMOs are we talking here? > > ESO - Playerhousing, new trials, new dungeons, new zones, revamped LFG system (twice) etc.. > WoW - in the span of 3 months, 2 new raids, 9 bosses, new races / classes, 6 new sub-races, 10 dungeons + 2 more coming. > BDO - New classes, world zones, world bosses, expansions that are indicative of their genre. > > I appreciate Guild Wars 2, it's a game with truly unique systems and story, but, the content delivery even after a major influx of money is still slow and not valued. You make it sound like everything on your list is added every 3 months. That's certainly not true for ESO - they've had 1 new class added in 4 years (the warden) and are currently working on a system where the game gets 4 new releases a year - one with just 2 dungeon paths, one with an open-world map and quests, one expansion which is an open world map (single) plus some features like a new skill line or PvP mode, and one QoL update/feature pack per year. (Also I'm torn between asking you to tell the ESO forum that ZOS attempting to fix the LFG tool twice counts as new content so I can see the reaction and strongly advising against it for your sake.) If you're mainly interested in instanced group content that might seem like slightly more, especially since 1/4 of updates bring nothing else. But I wouldn't say they get more stuff added overall. For me it seems about equal, but GW2 releases more of the kind of content I actually play. Also if new bosses count separately then you need to include the ones introduced with GW2's living world releases as well. For example Jahai Bluffs has the death-branded shatterer and the rift stalker, Kourna had the Gendara meta-event and the various champions, Sandswept Isles has the djinn...and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Spiro.9745 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > @"Kal Spiro.9745" said: > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > @"xan.8936" said: > > > > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? > > > > > > I mean.... they don't? > > > > > > Compared to other MMO titles, our content is very little and given sparingly. Other MMOs in the span of 3 months get a major raid, a new class, hefty open world updates. GW2 on the flip side gives a 1 hour play patch every 3-4 months, and even when they made 200% more money due to the sale of Mount Licenses, we still get extremely slowed content. > > > > > > > Which other MMOs are we talking here? > > ESO - Playerhousing, new trials, new dungeons, new zones, revamped LFG system (twice) etc.. > WoW - in the span of 3 months, 2 new raids, 9 bosses, new races / classes, 6 new sub-races, 10 dungeons + 2 more coming. > BDO - New classes, world zones, world bosses, expansions that are indicative of their genre. > > I appreciate Guild Wars 2, it's a game with truly unique systems and story, but, the content delivery even after a major influx of money is still slow and not valued. WoW is just paid content. It's all paid content. You want the new things you buy the expansion. Also, WoW is still subscription based, so pay money and also pay money, consistently. They had better be providing content for that cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate.8146 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 **Short probable answer:** Their devs are underpaid and overworked :( **Slightly longer answer:** > @"xan.8936" said: > I spend real money on items and gold because I don't have the time but I see a lot of others just exchanging gold for gems/items And that's pretty much how they stay afloat. It doesn't matter what your perception or guess of others is, the fact that ANet is still operating can only be explained by having the capital to continue developing. So the correct assertion here is that a lot of others spend real money and only some exchange in-game currency for gems. Now, when Mike O'Brien comes into this forum to announce a carefully crafted speech he prepared the night before regarding the closure of ANet, that is when you can safely assert the freeloaders outweigh the supporters :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganathar.4956 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > @"Kal Spiro.9745" said: > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > @"xan.8936" said: > > > > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? > > > > > > I mean.... they don't? > > > > > > Compared to other MMO titles, our content is very little and given sparingly. Other MMOs in the span of 3 months get a major raid, a new class, hefty open world updates. GW2 on the flip side gives a 1 hour play patch every 3-4 months, and even when they made 200% more money due to the sale of Mount Licenses, we still get extremely slowed content. > > > > > > > Which other MMOs are we talking here? > > ESO - Playerhousing, new trials, new dungeons, new zones, revamped LFG system (twice) etc.. > WoW - in the span of 3 months, 2 new raids, 9 bosses, new races / classes, 6 new sub-races, 10 dungeons + 2 more coming. > BDO - New classes, world zones, world bosses, expansions that are indicative of their genre. > > I appreciate Guild Wars 2, it's a game with truly unique systems and story, but, the content delivery even after a major influx of money is still slow and not valued. ESO was already addressed by someone else, so I'll focus on WoW and BDO. WoW just released its expansion 1.5 months ago, so it's obviously going to have more new content than the competition. You can't just compare an expansion launch to content patches. In addition, their sub-races are just re-skins that could have easily been more customization options for existing races. Are different horns for tauren or tattoos and light eyes for draenei such a big deal? WoW definitely releases quite a few more dungeon and raid bosses than GW2, but these games focus on different sorts of content. GW2 releases way more open world content in its patches. BDO makes way too many classes. It's so bad that Pearl Abyss makes ArenaNet look like balancing geniuses, which says a lot because ArenaNet is really not all that amazing at balancing. Too many classes is a bad thing, especially when they are only made to milk the player base for those cash shop items over and over again. Their frequently released new classes do not only affect balance though. I am pretty sure that they affect the rate of other content release too. The major content releases of BDO actually happen at an abysmal rate. Kamasylvia part 2 was released 10 months ago in NA, and we still have no idea when Drieghan is coming out. They do release other stuff in between of the major releases, but it's usually inconsequential stuff. Content that doesn't matter like savage rift, or stuff that makes the game worse like the node war changes and the militia system. Their major releases usually have a decent amount of quests, some nodes and some grind spots that only very geared players can grind. That's their typical content. They barely have any group content to speak of really. GW2 itself actually has one of the most solid release cadences in the MMO industry at the moment. The main thing that is lacking is the introduction of grindy long-term goals in every content patch, so that they are more replayable. ArenaNet might just be a little bit too generous with their lack of time gates. They have daily hearts and daily achievements for the new maps, but the new currencies are acquirable in many other ways as well. Whatever the case, the content is there, but maybe ArenaNet has to pace the rewards a bit better. One good thing that they did with the latest episode though is that they made Requiem armor require lots of mistonium. That could keep many players busy, though the very hardcore ones will know how to get it rather quickly. However, they kinda messed up with the sigil of nullification requirements. If the armor is so pricey, the casuals will give up and then they won't have to play the map for all of that mistonium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilman.1532 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"xan.8936" said: > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? The latest free patch was excellent. The upcoming living story episodes will be free and I'm assuming right into season 5 as well. The gem store has good stuff but it doesn't seem to add a lot of new things each week. > > I spend real money on items and gold because I don't have the time but I see a lot of others just exchanging gold for gems/items. My son plays fortnight and they seem to be always milking him for money for season passes and skins coming every night. I am just so happy with arena nets business model I just hope they can keep it Umm no. Just no. Negative with no hint of rightness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 We are certainly spoiled for content vs most MMO's in pve. They've obv finally found a structure that works for them, although consistency I would say is their biggest issue so far. Still a massive difference in quality at times between episodes. Its clear they are pretty passionate and work very hard to turn things around so regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 People buy gems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 The people who do buy gems, don't just buy a few. It's the mix of the box sales and gems that do it. Gem sales are surely up after they got to the mount skins and such. Let's be honest, a set of gathering tools (unbreakable basic ones) is 2400 gems. That's like 10 bucks each. You buy two of these sets and you could've bought an entirely new game. I mean if you want more inventory or bank space, it's gonna cost you, etc. So yeah they make a lot of money that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentMoore.9453 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I'd say they succeed by taking their time. I'm a role player who also works full time and I'm able to rotate my activities and divide my free time in such a way that I'm not bothered by the pacing of the game's available content. Plus, I like it when I only have to buy a game once; subscriptions were never my style. **The Negative**: - _Slow_: Compared to other MMOs, content and class addition are on the slow side - _Borked_: Releases/promotions are often flawed in their execution versus their advertisement (remember the unmet hype wars of HoT? Kung Fu Tea?) - _Inconsistency:_ A lot has changed since launch from lore to race physiology to the pronunciation of 'golem' and even the replacement of voice actors - _Questionable Writing_: A lot of characters themselves have inconsistent traits, story elements are often too 'convenient', and deaths in plots very seldom have any build-up, meaning, or lasting impact on players **The Positive**: - _Housekeeping_: The teams often comb through the game and bug reports looking for ways to repair and improve old content where other MMOs often leave their core game to rot - _Responsive Staff_: Anet staff has a very visible footprint both in the game and over social media; additionally, I have found their customer support to be very prompt and thorough, even apologetic when they have erred. - _Quality of Life_: We didn't used to have an armor wardrobe or free dying and armor repair, shared inventory slots, stackable items (in some cases), or the currency wallet -- All of these additions came from listening to players and deciding to make their lives easier, often without a monetary gain to be had. - _Play to Win, Not Pay to Win_: The systems in place to prevent someone from hopping into the store, buying end-level gear, and calling it a day are some of the most impressive I've seen in any MMO; the game rewards those who participate, and the community is full of good people who take joy in helping others with that participation - _Sometimes the Story's Alright_: Pretty much what it says on the tin - I particularly like when loose ends, like Caladbolg, are tied up in a way that is artful and thoughtfully written At the end of the day, Guild Wars 2 is just a comfortable game to hang out in. The maps are beautiful, I can hoard stacks of potatoes and marsh frogs for 5 years at a time, and if I'm in the mood I can pick up a bundle of [ruined grapes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ruined_Grapes "ruined grapes") and try to complete an entire map using it as my only weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaCoty.5721 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > @"Kal Spiro.9745" said: > > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > > @"xan.8936" said: > > > > > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? > > > > > > > > I mean.... they don't? > > > > > > > > Compared to other MMO titles, our content is very little and given sparingly. Other MMOs in the span of 3 months get a major raid, a new class, hefty open world updates. GW2 on the flip side gives a 1 hour play patch every 3-4 months, and even when they made 200% more money due to the sale of Mount Licenses, we still get extremely slowed content. > > > > > > > > > > Which other MMOs are we talking here? > > > > ESO - Playerhousing, new trials, new dungeons, new zones, revamped LFG system (twice) etc.. > > WoW - in the span of 3 months, 2 new raids, 9 bosses, new races / classes, 6 new sub-races, 10 dungeons + 2 more coming. > > BDO - New classes, world zones, world bosses, expansions that are indicative of their genre. > > > > I appreciate Guild Wars 2, it's a game with truly unique systems and story, but, the content delivery even after a major influx of money is still slow and not valued. > > ESO was already addressed by someone else, so I'll focus on WoW and BDO. > > WoW just released its expansion 1.5 months ago, so it's obviously going to have more new content than the competition. You can't just compare an expansion launch to content patches. In addition, their sub-races are just re-skins that could have easily been more customization options for existing races. Are different horns for tauren or tattoos and light eyes for draenei such a big deal? WoW definitely releases quite a few more dungeon and raid bosses than GW2, but these games focus on different sorts of content. GW2 releases way more open world content in its patches. > > BDO makes way too many classes. It's so bad that Pearl Abyss makes ArenaNet look like balancing geniuses, which says a lot because ArenaNet is really not all that amazing at balancing. Too many classes is a bad thing, especially when they are only made to milk the player base for those cash shop items over and over again. Their frequently released new classes do not only affect balance though. I am pretty sure that they affect the rate of other content release too. The major content releases of BDO actually happen at an abysmal rate. Kamasylvia part 2 was released 10 months ago in NA, and we still have no idea when Drieghan is coming out. They do release other stuff in between of the major releases, but it's usually inconsequential stuff. Content that doesn't matter like savage rift, or stuff that makes the game worse like the node war changes and the militia system. Their major releases usually have a decent amount of quests, some nodes and some grind spots that only very geared players can grind. That's their typical content. They barely have any group content to speak of really. > > GW2 itself actually has one of the most solid release cadences in the MMO industry at the moment. The main thing that is lacking is the introduction of grindy long-term goals in every content patch, so that they are more replayable. ArenaNet might just be a little bit too generous with their lack of time gates. They have daily hearts and daily achievements for the new maps, but the new currencies are acquirable in many other ways as well. Whatever the case, the content is there, but maybe ArenaNet has to pace the rewards a bit better. One good thing that they did with the latest episode though is that they made Requiem armor require lots of mistonium. That could keep many players busy, though the very hardcore ones will know how to get it rather quickly. However, they kinda messed up with the sigil of nullification requirements. If the armor is so pricey, the casuals will give up and then they won't have to play the map for all of that mistonium. You are misinterpreting what I am saying. WoW has patch updates within timezones as GW2 does; the most notable right now is patch 8.1 This patch alone will introduce 2 raids, with dual-faction integration (two different encounters for both factions), 2 new dungeons, plus open world content. This is no an unfamiliar practice with WoW - they add to their open world, probably moreso than GW2. Legion: Broken Isles, Argus (contained 3 maps). If ArenaNet decided to revamp the lfg / dungeon system, this game would also have a nice carrot-on-stick that is different from FOTM and raids. I.e. you queue for a dungeon, you get X gold for the first run, then X silver for repeated runs + dungeon loot (maybe chance for rare stuff inside the LFG). But there are systems that are flat-out ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Spiro.9745 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > @"Kal Spiro.9745" said: > > > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > > > @"xan.8936" said: > > > > > > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? > > > > > > > > > > I mean.... they don't? > > > > > > > > > > Compared to other MMO titles, our content is very little and given sparingly. Other MMOs in the span of 3 months get a major raid, a new class, hefty open world updates. GW2 on the flip side gives a 1 hour play patch every 3-4 months, and even when they made 200% more money due to the sale of Mount Licenses, we still get extremely slowed content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which other MMOs are we talking here? > > > > > > ESO - Playerhousing, new trials, new dungeons, new zones, revamped LFG system (twice) etc.. > > > WoW - in the span of 3 months, 2 new raids, 9 bosses, new races / classes, 6 new sub-races, 10 dungeons + 2 more coming. > > > BDO - New classes, world zones, world bosses, expansions that are indicative of their genre. > > > > > > I appreciate Guild Wars 2, it's a game with truly unique systems and story, but, the content delivery even after a major influx of money is still slow and not valued. > > > > ESO was already addressed by someone else, so I'll focus on WoW and BDO. > > > > WoW just released its expansion 1.5 months ago, so it's obviously going to have more new content than the competition. You can't just compare an expansion launch to content patches. In addition, their sub-races are just re-skins that could have easily been more customization options for existing races. Are different horns for tauren or tattoos and light eyes for draenei such a big deal? WoW definitely releases quite a few more dungeon and raid bosses than GW2, but these games focus on different sorts of content. GW2 releases way more open world content in its patches. > > > > BDO makes way too many classes. It's so bad that Pearl Abyss makes ArenaNet look like balancing geniuses, which says a lot because ArenaNet is really not all that amazing at balancing. Too many classes is a bad thing, especially when they are only made to milk the player base for those cash shop items over and over again. Their frequently released new classes do not only affect balance though. I am pretty sure that they affect the rate of other content release too. The major content releases of BDO actually happen at an abysmal rate. Kamasylvia part 2 was released 10 months ago in NA, and we still have no idea when Drieghan is coming out. They do release other stuff in between of the major releases, but it's usually inconsequential stuff. Content that doesn't matter like savage rift, or stuff that makes the game worse like the node war changes and the militia system. Their major releases usually have a decent amount of quests, some nodes and some grind spots that only very geared players can grind. That's their typical content. They barely have any group content to speak of really. > > > > GW2 itself actually has one of the most solid release cadences in the MMO industry at the moment. The main thing that is lacking is the introduction of grindy long-term goals in every content patch, so that they are more replayable. ArenaNet might just be a little bit too generous with their lack of time gates. They have daily hearts and daily achievements for the new maps, but the new currencies are acquirable in many other ways as well. Whatever the case, the content is there, but maybe ArenaNet has to pace the rewards a bit better. One good thing that they did with the latest episode though is that they made Requiem armor require lots of mistonium. That could keep many players busy, though the very hardcore ones will know how to get it rather quickly. However, they kinda messed up with the sigil of nullification requirements. If the armor is so pricey, the casuals will give up and then they won't have to play the map for all of that mistonium. > > You are misinterpreting what I am saying. > > WoW has patch updates within timezones as GW2 does; the most notable right now is patch 8.1 > > This patch alone will introduce 2 raids, with dual-faction integration (two different encounters for both factions), 2 new dungeons, plus open world content. This is no an unfamiliar practice with WoW - they add to their open world, probably moreso than GW2. Legion: Broken Isles, Argus (contained 3 maps). > > If ArenaNet decided to revamp the lfg / dungeon system, this game would also have a nice carrot-on-stick that is different from FOTM and raids. I.e. you queue for a dungeon, you get X gold for the first run, then X silver for repeated runs + dungeon loot (maybe chance for rare stuff inside the LFG). But there are systems that are flat-out ignored. They also cost significantly more than GW2, because those "free" updates are still funded by Subs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 To be honest, GW2 is just another MMORPG and nothing special. It just profits heavily from its B2P-business model and by having no or arguably just a few P2W-elements. Ever since the release of PoF, the actual gameplay-quality suffered a lot. PoF is basically dead content and the LW-episodes since then basically just live a few weeks and die very fast afterwards. The only map that's still alive is Istan and that only because it's an overrewarding farm-spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einsof.1457 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > @"xan.8936" said: > > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? > > I mean.... they don't? > > Compared to other MMO titles, our content is very little and given sparingly. Other MMOs in the span of 3 months get a major raid, a new class, hefty open world updates. GW2 on the flip side gives a 1 hour play patch every 3-4 months, and even when they made 200% more money due to the sale of Mount Licenses, we still get extremely slowed content. > I dunno what mnos you've been playing but I've played about 15 in the past 19 years and about 10 of those did endgame and nothing compares to gw2 quality either sub or no sub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Basically the short answer is they make a lot of money from the gem store - both direct sales and possibly people buying gems to convert to gold. They've made a game where cosmetics are important to a lot of people, with a store which sells lots of cosmetic and convenience items. IMO it's generally a good system because it means we're very rarely pressured to spend money or missing out on anything important if we don't, but there's lots of things for people to buy if they want them. > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > BDO makes way too many classes. It's so bad that Pearl Abyss makes ArenaNet look like balancing geniuses, which says a lot because ArenaNet is really not all that amazing at balancing. Too many classes is a bad thing, especially when they are only made to milk the player base for those cash shop items over and over again. Their frequently released new classes do not only affect balance though. I am pretty sure that they affect the rate of other content release too. The major content releases of BDO actually happen at an abysmal rate. Kamasylvia part 2 was released 10 months ago in NA, and we still have no idea when Drieghan is coming out. They do release other stuff in between of the major releases, but it's usually inconsequential stuff. Content that doesn't matter like savage rift, or stuff that makes the game worse like the node war changes and the militia system. Their major releases usually have a decent amount of quests, some nodes and some grind spots that only very geared players can grind. That's their typical content. They barely have any group content to speak of really. I think I understand the point you're making, but the problem with saying things like "they do release other stuff but it's usually inconsequential" is that people like me who have never played BDO can't work out what that really means. I've seen people dismiss entire GW2 updates as having "no real content" because it's not the kind of thing they enjoy playing, even saying they barely release anything because that person only enjoys PvP or instanced group content so they dismiss everything else as irrelevant. Which is fine if you know what's actually being released and can interpret the comments. But in this case I've got no idea what Kamasylvia or savage rift or the militia system is or what makes one a major update, one inconsequential and the last an update which made the game worse. Is that a factual statement, or does it just mean that you found the first update more fun than the other two? IMO it would be helpful to compare it to stuff in GW2 or give a little bit more detail so we can work out why you consider something a big update or a minor one. For example if you said savage rift is like GW2's Current Events, or it's a quality of life update which changes how some existing features work then it would be much clearer why it's inconsequential. > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > You are misinterpreting what I am saying. > > WoW has patch updates within timezones as GW2 does; the most notable right now is patch 8.1 > > This patch alone will introduce 2 raids, with dual-faction integration (two different encounters for both factions), 2 new dungeons, plus open world content. This is no an unfamiliar practice with WoW - they add to their open world, probably moreso than GW2. Legion: Broken Isles, Argus (contained 3 maps). > > If ArenaNet decided to revamp the lfg / dungeon system, this game would also have a nice carrot-on-stick that is different from FOTM and raids. I.e. you queue for a dungeon, you get X gold for the first run, then X silver for repeated runs + dungeon loot (maybe chance for rare stuff inside the LFG). But there are systems that are flat-out ignored. But the original question was how does Anet provide what they do _for very little cost_. Comparing that to a game which charges a monthly subscription fee and releases paid expansions on top of that is largely meaningless - it's not the same business model so it doesn't help answer the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Aren’t most of the WoW raid bosses re-skins of previous raid in a new setting with the odd mix and match of older mechanics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganathar.4956 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > @"Kal Spiro.9745" said: > > > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > > > @"xan.8936" said: > > > > > > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? > > > > > > > > > > I mean.... they don't? > > > > > > > > > > Compared to other MMO titles, our content is very little and given sparingly. Other MMOs in the span of 3 months get a major raid, a new class, hefty open world updates. GW2 on the flip side gives a 1 hour play patch every 3-4 months, and even when they made 200% more money due to the sale of Mount Licenses, we still get extremely slowed content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which other MMOs are we talking here? > > > > > > ESO - Playerhousing, new trials, new dungeons, new zones, revamped LFG system (twice) etc.. > > > WoW - in the span of 3 months, 2 new raids, 9 bosses, new races / classes, 6 new sub-races, 10 dungeons + 2 more coming. > > > BDO - New classes, world zones, world bosses, expansions that are indicative of their genre. > > > > > > I appreciate Guild Wars 2, it's a game with truly unique systems and story, but, the content delivery even after a major influx of money is still slow and not valued. > > > > ESO was already addressed by someone else, so I'll focus on WoW and BDO. > > > > WoW just released its expansion 1.5 months ago, so it's obviously going to have more new content than the competition. You can't just compare an expansion launch to content patches. In addition, their sub-races are just re-skins that could have easily been more customization options for existing races. Are different horns for tauren or tattoos and light eyes for draenei such a big deal? WoW definitely releases quite a few more dungeon and raid bosses than GW2, but these games focus on different sorts of content. GW2 releases way more open world content in its patches. > > > > BDO makes way too many classes. It's so bad that Pearl Abyss makes ArenaNet look like balancing geniuses, which says a lot because ArenaNet is really not all that amazing at balancing. Too many classes is a bad thing, especially when they are only made to milk the player base for those cash shop items over and over again. Their frequently released new classes do not only affect balance though. I am pretty sure that they affect the rate of other content release too. The major content releases of BDO actually happen at an abysmal rate. Kamasylvia part 2 was released 10 months ago in NA, and we still have no idea when Drieghan is coming out. They do release other stuff in between of the major releases, but it's usually inconsequential stuff. Content that doesn't matter like savage rift, or stuff that makes the game worse like the node war changes and the militia system. Their major releases usually have a decent amount of quests, some nodes and some grind spots that only very geared players can grind. That's their typical content. They barely have any group content to speak of really. > > > > GW2 itself actually has one of the most solid release cadences in the MMO industry at the moment. The main thing that is lacking is the introduction of grindy long-term goals in every content patch, so that they are more replayable. ArenaNet might just be a little bit too generous with their lack of time gates. They have daily hearts and daily achievements for the new maps, but the new currencies are acquirable in many other ways as well. Whatever the case, the content is there, but maybe ArenaNet has to pace the rewards a bit better. One good thing that they did with the latest episode though is that they made Requiem armor require lots of mistonium. That could keep many players busy, though the very hardcore ones will know how to get it rather quickly. However, they kinda messed up with the sigil of nullification requirements. If the armor is so pricey, the casuals will give up and then they won't have to play the map for all of that mistonium. > > You are misinterpreting what I am saying. > > WoW has patch updates within timezones as GW2 does; the most notable right now is patch 8.1 > > This patch alone will introduce 2 raids, with dual-faction integration (two different encounters for both factions), 2 new dungeons, plus open world content. This is no an unfamiliar practice with WoW - they add to their open world, probably moreso than GW2. Legion: Broken Isles, Argus (contained 3 maps). > > If ArenaNet decided to revamp the lfg / dungeon system, this game would also have a nice carrot-on-stick that is different from FOTM and raids. I.e. you queue for a dungeon, you get X gold for the first run, then X silver for repeated runs + dungeon loot (maybe chance for rare stuff inside the LFG). But there are systems that are flat-out ignored. WoW always starts its expansion packs with a good amount of content and with a big content patch ready to go 1.5-2 months afterwards. However, once that surge of content is released, their releases slow down significantly. In Legion, patch 7.2 came out 3 months after 7.1, while 7.3 came out 6 months after 7.2. The gap between 7.3 and the release of the latest expansion was almost an entire year. Guild wars 2 releases its major patches roughly every 3 months, with Anet's current team structure ensuring that there is no big content drought between LW and expansions. Basically the difference here is that Blizzard likes doing a few huge and epic releases, while Anet likes to release smaller chunks of content more frequently. Also, as I said Blizzard focuses way more on instanced content so they do release way more dungeons and raids. However, even though they do release open world stuff, it often pales in comparison to the open world content that Anet produces. Anet produces maps more frequently, as well as meta events. Legion had new zones in Argus and the broken shore, but they were still fewer than what LW3 had. Anet are actually doing even better now though, because they have structured their LW teams properly, which means no HoT content drought again. So with PoF patches, we will be getting even more maps than what we got in HoT. I also feel like I should mention that the open world content that Blizzard does add is not that impressive. World quests are pretty boring and uninspired and often have generic rewards. Their leveling is pretty good, but that's only a thing at the start of expansions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganathar.4956 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Danikat.8537" said: > Basically the short answer is they make a lot of money from the gem store - both direct sales and possibly people buying gems to convert to gold. They've made a game where cosmetics are important to a lot of people, with a store which sells lots of cosmetic and convenience items. IMO it's generally a good system because it means we're very rarely pressured to spend money or missing out on anything important if we don't, but there's lots of things for people to buy if they want them. > > > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > BDO makes way too many classes. It's so bad that Pearl Abyss makes ArenaNet look like balancing geniuses, which says a lot because ArenaNet is really not all that amazing at balancing. Too many classes is a bad thing, especially when they are only made to milk the player base for those cash shop items over and over again. Their frequently released new classes do not only affect balance though. I am pretty sure that they affect the rate of other content release too. The major content releases of BDO actually happen at an abysmal rate. Kamasylvia part 2 was released 10 months ago in NA, and we still have no idea when Drieghan is coming out. They do release other stuff in between of the major releases, but it's usually inconsequential stuff. Content that doesn't matter like savage rift, or stuff that makes the game worse like the node war changes and the militia system. Their major releases usually have a decent amount of quests, some nodes and some grind spots that only very geared players can grind. That's their typical content. They barely have any group content to speak of really. > > I think I understand the point you're making, but the problem with saying things like "they do release other stuff but it's usually inconsequential" is that people like me who have never played BDO can't work out what that really means. I've seen people dismiss entire GW2 updates as having "no real content" because it's not the kind of thing they enjoy playing, even saying they barely release anything because that person only enjoys PvP or instanced group content so they dismiss everything else as irrelevant. Which is fine if you know what's actually being released and can interpret the comments. > > But in this case I've got no idea what Kamasylvia or savage rift or the militia system is or what makes one a major update, one inconsequential and the last an update which made the game worse. Is that a factual statement, or does it just mean that you found the first update more fun than the other two? > > IMO it would be helpful to compare it to stuff in GW2 or give a little bit more detail so we can work out why you consider something a big update or a minor one. For example if you said savage rift is like GW2's Current Events, or it's a quality of life update which changes how some existing features work then it would be much clearer why it's inconsequential. I was avoiding getting too much into it because I feared that it would end up being too much of a wall of text, but I'll try to explain as briefly as I can. Savage rift is basically the only instanced group content that was ever released in BDO. Instead of it being a nice challenge where you group up and use your class skills to overcome it, Peal Abyss decided to make it different. You fight a bunch of waves of monsters, with bosses spawning at certain points. The way that you fight them is by building defensive structures and using a rifle weapon that is given to you. Literally the only thing you can do with it is shoot. You can't use your class skills with it equipped. I have no idea what they were thinking while making this mode. The rewards are typical BDO things, like silver, enhancement materials and possibly accessories or old boss gear that has been farmed to death. The militia system is an addition to node wars, which is the main PvP mode of BDO. Basically guilds fight each other for nodes in node wars and sieges for control of certain areas in the game. The militia system allows the recruitment of people from guilds that are not participating as militia. The problem is that Pearl Abyss have been constantly making the node war experience worse with most of their updates to it. Militia at launch was very ripe for abuse. For example, one way that you could abuse it is go to a node war server and sign up as militia. Then instead of helping you could just go and do one of the afk activities withing a city and then reap your rewards without contributing. There is more that can be said about node wars, but I don't find it easy to expalin to someone that has not played BDO extensively before. Kamasylvia was a new region that was added to NA and EU on autumn of 2017. It is the homeland of the elves, and it was added in two parts. The addition of new regions to the world is usually the major content that BDO gets, because it is an almost completely open world game. If you take both parts of Kamasylvia together, it added Grana, which is a capital city, as well as one town. It added a pretty large amount of nodes, which are basically outposts and locations that you can invest in for several possible benefits. The easiest to understand benefit is that you can send workers to the nodes to gather resources. Unfortunately, the new resources that were introduced with Kamasylvia did not have many crafting recipes associated with them, and they cannot be used in trade. I am sure they they will be more useful eventually, but even now after so many months, they are still not incredibly useful. The new region also has quests, which includes 2 main quest lines and side-quests. There is some story there but nothing special. The main content of this release though was the grind spots and the scrolls bosses. Grind spots are areas infested with mobs that you have to grind for hours for experience and drops. Since BDO has no hard level cap and only has a soft cap, experience can always be valuable to some extent. Most of these grind spots are for very geared players, with only two of them being designed to be easier. Many of the high gear grind spots were designed for groups, but most are usually soloed by very geared players because it's way more efficient. Only Gyfins are usually grouped for, because they are the hardest and because they have group loot which is an exception to the norm, where you usually get penalized in loot and exp for grouping up. The new scroll bosses are part of a system where you can get scrolls that summon bosses daily. These bosses can be done solo or in a group with no loot penalty. The scrolls are usually gathered and done once per week. They aren't very challenging really, but it's something to do for a couple of hours every week I guess. Finally, there is new gear that can be looted from the boss scrolls and from the mobs that you grind. It's a few new accessories and two new pieces of boss gear. As you can see Kamasylvia did add quite a bit new content. This is an indisputable fact. That is why it's a major patch. The militia system and Savage Rift are all examples of minor additions that are not even comparable to LW patches. Militia is probably comparable to some QoL stuff that GW2 releases all the time, while Savage rift would be comparable to a new PvP map ot a fractal at best. But even then I think that I would be too generous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > > @"Kal Spiro.9745" said: > > > > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > > > > @"xan.8936" said: > > > > > > > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean.... they don't? > > > > > > > > > > > > Compared to other MMO titles, our content is very little and given sparingly. Other MMOs in the span of 3 months get a major raid, a new class, hefty open world updates. GW2 on the flip side gives a 1 hour play patch every 3-4 months, and even when they made 200% more money due to the sale of Mount Licenses, we still get extremely slowed content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which other MMOs are we talking here? > > > > > > > > ESO - Playerhousing, new trials, new dungeons, new zones, revamped LFG system (twice) etc.. > > > > WoW - in the span of 3 months, 2 new raids, 9 bosses, new races / classes, 6 new sub-races, 10 dungeons + 2 more coming. > > > > BDO - New classes, world zones, world bosses, expansions that are indicative of their genre. > > > > > > > > I appreciate Guild Wars 2, it's a game with truly unique systems and story, but, the content delivery even after a major influx of money is still slow and not valued. > > > > > > ESO was already addressed by someone else, so I'll focus on WoW and BDO. > > > > > > WoW just released its expansion 1.5 months ago, so it's obviously going to have more new content than the competition. You can't just compare an expansion launch to content patches. In addition, their sub-races are just re-skins that could have easily been more customization options for existing races. Are different horns for tauren or tattoos and light eyes for draenei such a big deal? WoW definitely releases quite a few more dungeon and raid bosses than GW2, but these games focus on different sorts of content. GW2 releases way more open world content in its patches. > > > > > > BDO makes way too many classes. It's so bad that Pearl Abyss makes ArenaNet look like balancing geniuses, which says a lot because ArenaNet is really not all that amazing at balancing. Too many classes is a bad thing, especially when they are only made to milk the player base for those cash shop items over and over again. Their frequently released new classes do not only affect balance though. I am pretty sure that they affect the rate of other content release too. The major content releases of BDO actually happen at an abysmal rate. Kamasylvia part 2 was released 10 months ago in NA, and we still have no idea when Drieghan is coming out. They do release other stuff in between of the major releases, but it's usually inconsequential stuff. Content that doesn't matter like savage rift, or stuff that makes the game worse like the node war changes and the militia system. Their major releases usually have a decent amount of quests, some nodes and some grind spots that only very geared players can grind. That's their typical content. They barely have any group content to speak of really. > > > > > > GW2 itself actually has one of the most solid release cadences in the MMO industry at the moment. The main thing that is lacking is the introduction of grindy long-term goals in every content patch, so that they are more replayable. ArenaNet might just be a little bit too generous with their lack of time gates. They have daily hearts and daily achievements for the new maps, but the new currencies are acquirable in many other ways as well. Whatever the case, the content is there, but maybe ArenaNet has to pace the rewards a bit better. One good thing that they did with the latest episode though is that they made Requiem armor require lots of mistonium. That could keep many players busy, though the very hardcore ones will know how to get it rather quickly. However, they kinda messed up with the sigil of nullification requirements. If the armor is so pricey, the casuals will give up and then they won't have to play the map for all of that mistonium. > > > > You are misinterpreting what I am saying. > > > > WoW has patch updates within timezones as GW2 does; the most notable right now is patch 8.1 > > > > This patch alone will introduce 2 raids, with dual-faction integration (two different encounters for both factions), 2 new dungeons, plus open world content. This is no an unfamiliar practice with WoW - they add to their open world, probably moreso than GW2. Legion: Broken Isles, Argus (contained 3 maps). > > > > If ArenaNet decided to revamp the lfg / dungeon system, this game would also have a nice carrot-on-stick that is different from FOTM and raids. I.e. you queue for a dungeon, you get X gold for the first run, then X silver for repeated runs + dungeon loot (maybe chance for rare stuff inside the LFG). But there are systems that are flat-out ignored. > > WoW always starts its expansion packs with a good amount of content and with a big content patch ready to go 1.5-2 months afterwards. However, once that surge of content is released, their releases slow down significantly. In Legion, patch 7.2 came out 3 months after 7.1, while 7.3 came out 6 months after 7.2. The gap between 7.3 and the release of the latest expansion was almost an entire year. Guild wars 2 releases its major patches roughly every 3 months, with Anet's current team structure ensuring that there is no big content drought between LW and expansions. Basically the difference here is that Blizzard likes doing a few huge and epic releases, while Anet likes to release smaller chunks of content more frequently. > > Also, as I said Blizzard focuses way more on instanced content so they do release way more dungeons and raids. However, even though they do release open world stuff, it often pales in comparison to the open world content that Anet produces. Anet produces maps more frequently, as well as meta events. Legion had new zones in Argus and the broken shore, but they were still fewer than what LW3 had. Anet are actually doing even better now though, because they have structured their LW teams properly, which means no HoT content drought again. So with PoF patches, we will be getting even more maps than what we got in HoT. I also feel like I should mention that the open world content that Blizzard does add is not that impressive. World quests are pretty boring and uninspired and often have generic rewards. Their leveling is pretty good, but that's only a thing at the start of expansions. No big content drought in GW2? I have to disagree. It feels like we have no real content ever since some months after the PoF-release have passed. PoF was quite low-quality content for a MMO since its replayability-value is basically zero. The LWS4-episodes don't help either. Sure, Istan is pretty much alive, but only because it's a braindead and overrewarding gold-grind. The other maps died rather quickly, just like Jahai will in one or two weeks. There simply are no gameplay-additions of value. At least in LWS3, you had trinkets you could farm for Alts, especially since that was the most efficient way to get Viper-stuff. The LWS4 maps don't offer that though. There's a reason why people reduce LW-maps to "additional AP". ArenaNet really ought to re-evaluate its LW-formula. In my regard, that formula is quite a failure. Oh, and let's not forget that they shipped unfinished content with Kourna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganathar.4956 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > > > @"Kal Spiro.9745" said: > > > > > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > > > > > @"xan.8936" said: > > > > > > > > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean.... they don't? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compared to other MMO titles, our content is very little and given sparingly. Other MMOs in the span of 3 months get a major raid, a new class, hefty open world updates. GW2 on the flip side gives a 1 hour play patch every 3-4 months, and even when they made 200% more money due to the sale of Mount Licenses, we still get extremely slowed content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which other MMOs are we talking here? > > > > > > > > > > ESO - Playerhousing, new trials, new dungeons, new zones, revamped LFG system (twice) etc.. > > > > > WoW - in the span of 3 months, 2 new raids, 9 bosses, new races / classes, 6 new sub-races, 10 dungeons + 2 more coming. > > > > > BDO - New classes, world zones, world bosses, expansions that are indicative of their genre. > > > > > > > > > > I appreciate Guild Wars 2, it's a game with truly unique systems and story, but, the content delivery even after a major influx of money is still slow and not valued. > > > > > > > > ESO was already addressed by someone else, so I'll focus on WoW and BDO. > > > > > > > > WoW just released its expansion 1.5 months ago, so it's obviously going to have more new content than the competition. You can't just compare an expansion launch to content patches. In addition, their sub-races are just re-skins that could have easily been more customization options for existing races. Are different horns for tauren or tattoos and light eyes for draenei such a big deal? WoW definitely releases quite a few more dungeon and raid bosses than GW2, but these games focus on different sorts of content. GW2 releases way more open world content in its patches. > > > > > > > > BDO makes way too many classes. It's so bad that Pearl Abyss makes ArenaNet look like balancing geniuses, which says a lot because ArenaNet is really not all that amazing at balancing. Too many classes is a bad thing, especially when they are only made to milk the player base for those cash shop items over and over again. Their frequently released new classes do not only affect balance though. I am pretty sure that they affect the rate of other content release too. The major content releases of BDO actually happen at an abysmal rate. Kamasylvia part 2 was released 10 months ago in NA, and we still have no idea when Drieghan is coming out. They do release other stuff in between of the major releases, but it's usually inconsequential stuff. Content that doesn't matter like savage rift, or stuff that makes the game worse like the node war changes and the militia system. Their major releases usually have a decent amount of quests, some nodes and some grind spots that only very geared players can grind. That's their typical content. They barely have any group content to speak of really. > > > > > > > > GW2 itself actually has one of the most solid release cadences in the MMO industry at the moment. The main thing that is lacking is the introduction of grindy long-term goals in every content patch, so that they are more replayable. ArenaNet might just be a little bit too generous with their lack of time gates. They have daily hearts and daily achievements for the new maps, but the new currencies are acquirable in many other ways as well. Whatever the case, the content is there, but maybe ArenaNet has to pace the rewards a bit better. One good thing that they did with the latest episode though is that they made Requiem armor require lots of mistonium. That could keep many players busy, though the very hardcore ones will know how to get it rather quickly. However, they kinda messed up with the sigil of nullification requirements. If the armor is so pricey, the casuals will give up and then they won't have to play the map for all of that mistonium. > > > > > > You are misinterpreting what I am saying. > > > > > > WoW has patch updates within timezones as GW2 does; the most notable right now is patch 8.1 > > > > > > This patch alone will introduce 2 raids, with dual-faction integration (two different encounters for both factions), 2 new dungeons, plus open world content. This is no an unfamiliar practice with WoW - they add to their open world, probably moreso than GW2. Legion: Broken Isles, Argus (contained 3 maps). > > > > > > If ArenaNet decided to revamp the lfg / dungeon system, this game would also have a nice carrot-on-stick that is different from FOTM and raids. I.e. you queue for a dungeon, you get X gold for the first run, then X silver for repeated runs + dungeon loot (maybe chance for rare stuff inside the LFG). But there are systems that are flat-out ignored. > > > > WoW always starts its expansion packs with a good amount of content and with a big content patch ready to go 1.5-2 months afterwards. However, once that surge of content is released, their releases slow down significantly. In Legion, patch 7.2 came out 3 months after 7.1, while 7.3 came out 6 months after 7.2. The gap between 7.3 and the release of the latest expansion was almost an entire year. Guild wars 2 releases its major patches roughly every 3 months, with Anet's current team structure ensuring that there is no big content drought between LW and expansions. Basically the difference here is that Blizzard likes doing a few huge and epic releases, while Anet likes to release smaller chunks of content more frequently. > > > > Also, as I said Blizzard focuses way more on instanced content so they do release way more dungeons and raids. However, even though they do release open world stuff, it often pales in comparison to the open world content that Anet produces. Anet produces maps more frequently, as well as meta events. Legion had new zones in Argus and the broken shore, but they were still fewer than what LW3 had. Anet are actually doing even better now though, because they have structured their LW teams properly, which means no HoT content drought again. So with PoF patches, we will be getting even more maps than what we got in HoT. I also feel like I should mention that the open world content that Blizzard does add is not that impressive. World quests are pretty boring and uninspired and often have generic rewards. Their leveling is pretty good, but that's only a thing at the start of expansions. > > No big content drought in GW2? I have to disagree. > > It feels like we have no real content ever since some months after the PoF-release have passed. PoF was quite low-quality content for a MMO since its replayability-value is basically zero. The LWS4-episodes don't help either. Sure, Istan is pretty much alive, but only because it's a braindead and overrewarding gold-grind. The other maps died rather quickly, just like Jahai will in one or two weeks. There simply are no gameplay-additions of value. At least in LWS3, you had trinkets you could farm for Alts, especially since that was the most efficient way to get Viper-stuff. The LWS4 maps don't offer that though. There's a reason why people reduce LW-maps to "additional AP". ArenaNet really ought to re-evaluate its LW-formula. In my regard, that formula is quite a failure. > > Oh, and let's not forget that they shipped unfinished content with Kourna. I addressed the replayability of the content in my first post in this thread. It's true that ArenaNet needs to work more on how the rewards are earned so that the content is more replayable. That is a reward problem though, not a content problem. That's why it might *feel* to some that there is not that much real content coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > > > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > > > > @"Kal Spiro.9745" said: > > > > > > > > @"DakotaCoty.5721" said: > > > > > > > > > @"xan.8936" said: > > > > > > > > > How does Anet deliver such value for very little cost? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean.... they don't? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compared to other MMO titles, our content is very little and given sparingly. Other MMOs in the span of 3 months get a major raid, a new class, hefty open world updates. GW2 on the flip side gives a 1 hour play patch every 3-4 months, and even when they made 200% more money due to the sale of Mount Licenses, we still get extremely slowed content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which other MMOs are we talking here? > > > > > > > > > > > > ESO - Playerhousing, new trials, new dungeons, new zones, revamped LFG system (twice) etc.. > > > > > > WoW - in the span of 3 months, 2 new raids, 9 bosses, new races / classes, 6 new sub-races, 10 dungeons + 2 more coming. > > > > > > BDO - New classes, world zones, world bosses, expansions that are indicative of their genre. > > > > > > > > > > > > I appreciate Guild Wars 2, it's a game with truly unique systems and story, but, the content delivery even after a major influx of money is still slow and not valued. > > > > > > > > > > ESO was already addressed by someone else, so I'll focus on WoW and BDO. > > > > > > > > > > WoW just released its expansion 1.5 months ago, so it's obviously going to have more new content than the competition. You can't just compare an expansion launch to content patches. In addition, their sub-races are just re-skins that could have easily been more customization options for existing races. Are different horns for tauren or tattoos and light eyes for draenei such a big deal? WoW definitely releases quite a few more dungeon and raid bosses than GW2, but these games focus on different sorts of content. GW2 releases way more open world content in its patches. > > > > > > > > > > BDO makes way too many classes. It's so bad that Pearl Abyss makes ArenaNet look like balancing geniuses, which says a lot because ArenaNet is really not all that amazing at balancing. Too many classes is a bad thing, especially when they are only made to milk the player base for those cash shop items over and over again. Their frequently released new classes do not only affect balance though. I am pretty sure that they affect the rate of other content release too. The major content releases of BDO actually happen at an abysmal rate. Kamasylvia part 2 was released 10 months ago in NA, and we still have no idea when Drieghan is coming out. They do release other stuff in between of the major releases, but it's usually inconsequential stuff. Content that doesn't matter like savage rift, or stuff that makes the game worse like the node war changes and the militia system. Their major releases usually have a decent amount of quests, some nodes and some grind spots that only very geared players can grind. That's their typical content. They barely have any group content to speak of really. > > > > > > > > > > GW2 itself actually has one of the most solid release cadences in the MMO industry at the moment. The main thing that is lacking is the introduction of grindy long-term goals in every content patch, so that they are more replayable. ArenaNet might just be a little bit too generous with their lack of time gates. They have daily hearts and daily achievements for the new maps, but the new currencies are acquirable in many other ways as well. Whatever the case, the content is there, but maybe ArenaNet has to pace the rewards a bit better. One good thing that they did with the latest episode though is that they made Requiem armor require lots of mistonium. That could keep many players busy, though the very hardcore ones will know how to get it rather quickly. However, they kinda messed up with the sigil of nullification requirements. If the armor is so pricey, the casuals will give up and then they won't have to play the map for all of that mistonium. > > > > > > > > You are misinterpreting what I am saying. > > > > > > > > WoW has patch updates within timezones as GW2 does; the most notable right now is patch 8.1 > > > > > > > > This patch alone will introduce 2 raids, with dual-faction integration (two different encounters for both factions), 2 new dungeons, plus open world content. This is no an unfamiliar practice with WoW - they add to their open world, probably moreso than GW2. Legion: Broken Isles, Argus (contained 3 maps). > > > > > > > > If ArenaNet decided to revamp the lfg / dungeon system, this game would also have a nice carrot-on-stick that is different from FOTM and raids. I.e. you queue for a dungeon, you get X gold for the first run, then X silver for repeated runs + dungeon loot (maybe chance for rare stuff inside the LFG). But there are systems that are flat-out ignored. > > > > > > WoW always starts its expansion packs with a good amount of content and with a big content patch ready to go 1.5-2 months afterwards. However, once that surge of content is released, their releases slow down significantly. In Legion, patch 7.2 came out 3 months after 7.1, while 7.3 came out 6 months after 7.2. The gap between 7.3 and the release of the latest expansion was almost an entire year. Guild wars 2 releases its major patches roughly every 3 months, with Anet's current team structure ensuring that there is no big content drought between LW and expansions. Basically the difference here is that Blizzard likes doing a few huge and epic releases, while Anet likes to release smaller chunks of content more frequently. > > > > > > Also, as I said Blizzard focuses way more on instanced content so they do release way more dungeons and raids. However, even though they do release open world stuff, it often pales in comparison to the open world content that Anet produces. Anet produces maps more frequently, as well as meta events. Legion had new zones in Argus and the broken shore, but they were still fewer than what LW3 had. Anet are actually doing even better now though, because they have structured their LW teams properly, which means no HoT content drought again. So with PoF patches, we will be getting even more maps than what we got in HoT. I also feel like I should mention that the open world content that Blizzard does add is not that impressive. World quests are pretty boring and uninspired and often have generic rewards. Their leveling is pretty good, but that's only a thing at the start of expansions. > > > > No big content drought in GW2? I have to disagree. > > > > It feels like we have no real content ever since some months after the PoF-release have passed. PoF was quite low-quality content for a MMO since its replayability-value is basically zero. The LWS4-episodes don't help either. Sure, Istan is pretty much alive, but only because it's a braindead and overrewarding gold-grind. The other maps died rather quickly, just like Jahai will in one or two weeks. There simply are no gameplay-additions of value. At least in LWS3, you had trinkets you could farm for Alts, especially since that was the most efficient way to get Viper-stuff. The LWS4 maps don't offer that though. There's a reason why people reduce LW-maps to "additional AP". ArenaNet really ought to re-evaluate its LW-formula. In my regard, that formula is quite a failure. > > > > Oh, and let's not forget that they shipped unfinished content with Kourna. > > I addressed the replayability of the content in my first post in this thread. It's true that ArenaNet needs to work more on how the rewards are earned so that the content is more replayable. That is a reward problem though, not a content problem. That's why it might *feel* to some that there is not that much real content coming in. It's not just a reward-problem. While I agree though that several events need to be more rewarding - especially stuff like PoF-meta-events or the new Shatterer -, it's also a gameplay and stuctural problem. PoF-meta-events simply don't feel like a "main event" and are mostly just zergfests anyway. HoT is vastly superior in that regard. There also aren't any valuable gameplay-additions. Quite contrary: At least to me, it seems like the game just got more annoying due to an increased melee-hate with PoF- and LWS4-content. Could be just me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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