Silence.3702 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Really hard to tell with classes like Mirage DeadEye and even spelllbreaker,they litearlly ruin the pvp completely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodie.1045 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 As long as these cheese builds exist, people are going to abuse them and climb to the top. Then once those builds get nerfed, people will see that those players who got to platinum 3 or even legendary with those broken builds are not skilled players at all. Then again, I highly doubt anyone could go above gold 3 or even gold 2 with Deadeye. With condition mirage and spellbreaker you can climb higher. Spellbreaker is an easier version of core warrior because they can faceroll and not worry about anything with any encounter which is why you don't see any core warriors in ranked pvp and condition mirage is broken beyond belief, makes me wonder why it didn't get nerfed since the beginning of season 13 aside from the vigor which wasn't enough in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashkew.6584 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 assuming those statements are correct for the sake of argument, guess what? The "cheese builds" meet other "cheese builds" and guess who wins those fights? Probably the guy who is more skilled with it. thus to answer the topic, yes there is skill involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenrai Senshi.2017 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Skill will always be involved, regardless of whether some classes are overpowered or not. Personally speaking, if I ever lose to another player in any form of PvP type content, I try to refrain from blaming it on the class or spec they are playing, because I believe it undermines the effort that player might have put in. I also don't blame players for Anet's balance, or lack thereof, nor do I blame them for using what is effective just because it is effective (obviously if you intend to climb ranks, chances are you're going to be looking at the meta, this happens in every competitive mode in any game). Of course, it goes without saying that some classes/specs require less skill to use than others, but that would be the case even if the game had perfect balance. Some classes simply have a higher skill cap by design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordrosicky.5813 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 The skill comes from playing the best build and knowing what rotation to spam against what other builds. That is basically it. There is very little mechanical skill, it is more a knowledge of the game that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannelore.8153 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 The problem with the definition of skill is its relative. Most people consider beating another player in a fair fight to be a show of skill, but in reality there are many areas where skill is needed in an online game; theorycrafting about overpowered builds and then putting them into execution and decimating opponents without any real hope for them to have a victory is also a skill, and one that is very common in all PvP games, be it MMO, RTS, FPS, etc. Ultimately skill is about being good at something, and some people are really good at being jerks. They are using the tools given to them by the game, optimising their use of those tools, and using that against other players to win. The fault lies with ArenaNet for making their game balance exploitable on this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannir.4132 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > The skill comes from playing the best build and knowing what rotation to spam against what other builds. That is basically it. There is very little mechanical skill, it is more a knowledge of the game that matters. So the guy that wins a mirror 1v1 several times in a match isn't mechanically more skilled than the other guy? Ofc that doesn't say anything about rotation skills etc. but the point stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordrosicky.5813 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Yannir.4132" said: > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > The skill comes from playing the best build and knowing what rotation to spam against what other builds. That is basically it. There is very little mechanical skill, it is more a knowledge of the game that matters. > > So the guy that wins a mirror 1v1 several times in a match isn't mechanically more skilled than the other guy? > Ofc that doesn't say anything about rotation skills etc. but the point stands. Possibly but not for sure. The game takes more or less zero mechanical skill beyond clicking buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les.4872 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > @"Yannir.4132" said: > > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > The skill comes from playing the best build and knowing what rotation to spam against what other builds. That is basically it. There is very little mechanical skill, it is more a knowledge of the game that matters. > > > > So the guy that wins a mirror 1v1 several times in a match isn't mechanically more skilled than the other guy? > > Ofc that doesn't say anything about rotation skills etc. but the point stands. > > Possibly but not for sure. The game takes more or less zero mechanical skill beyond clicking buttons. Oh yea cause pressing all button = ez win. There are small niche stuff like weapon stow feint/animation cancel, untargeted leap/movement abilities for escaping/kiting and enemy boon awareness that sets a good player apart from the regular folks who think everything is spam. There is a lot of mechanical skill to be learnt if you want to be good at pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Is this a troll thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Skill is hard to define in the abstract. Mechanical skill, positional skill, build design, rotational skill and so forth are easier to define and discuss. A player may have designed a high impact low mechanical skill required build. It still might require good positioning and rotations to be effective. So them playing it isn’t unskilled. Rather, they might pick something that plays to their strengths as players and covers up their deficiencies. It isn’t that they are bad players necessarily because designing a build around a particular “trick” is skill. If I play a one shot build I better be good enough at the rest to stay alive and be effective. The skill isn’t on my damage but on my survival. Just because one aspect is easy doesn’t mean the whole build is. Also at the end of the day most people don’t play games with an intentional handicap. Expecting them to do so is not reasonable. Your build is harder but that doesn’t entitle you to win any more than not wearing armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st elmos fire.2987 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Bad players cant see whats so special about the best players mechanics because they dont understand it. This game reguires a ton of skill to be at the top. The skill cap is stupid high. No one is even close at the cap at the moment. Its sad that we will probably never see again what it looks like to play at the highest possible tier because there is no more insentive to be as good as the pros were during the biggeest money tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zawn.9647 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 If you're not a mesmer or a deadeye, then yes... this game requires skill. Otherwise just stealth and run if things go wrong and re-engage later on to try again :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"st elmos fire.2987" said: > Bad players cant see whats so special about the best players mechanics because they dont understand it. This game reguires a ton of skill to be at the top. The skill cap is stupid high. No one is even close at the cap at the moment. Its sad that we will probably never see again what it looks like to play at the highest possible tier because there is no more insentive to be as good as the pros were during the biggeest money tournaments. this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Spamming will only get you so far. There are certain matchups that don't require much skill (for example, beating an ele on a necro), but if you want to win in an even or unfavorable matchup then you have to outplay your opponent. In PVP matches, focusing the right targets and knowing when to res, stomp, dps, kite and rotate is important. Understanding your own strengths and weaknesses and where you'll be most useful also takes skill. It can seem like this game takes no skill when you see people playing poorly or have matches where one team is heavily beating the other, but believe it or not, it's not always about spamming skills off cooldown lol. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Hoodie.1045" said: > As long as these cheese builds exist, people are going to abuse them and climb to the top. This. Every class on this game has a build or builds that require skill, but most classes also have crutch traits or skills that can be used to cover build weaknesses, and so everyone runs cheese. Why run traits considered weak and cover the deficiencies with skill and forethought, when you can stack your build to automatically handle any split second decisions you need to make that might cost you the fight, and then pass that off as skill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dDuff.3860 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Hoodie.1045" said: > As long as these cheese builds exist, people are going to abuse them and climb to the top. Then once those builds get nerfed, people will see that those players who got to platinum 3 or even legendary with those broken builds are not skilled players at all. Then again, I highly doubt anyone could go above gold 3 or even gold 2 with Deadeye. > > With condition mirage and spellbreaker you can climb higher. Spellbreaker is an easier version of core warrior because they can faceroll and not worry about anything with any encounter which is why you don't see any core warriors in ranked pvp and condition mirage is broken beyond belief, makes me wonder why it didn't get nerfed since the beginning of season 13 aside from the vigor which wasn't enough in my opinion. Climbing legendary with deadeye ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > Is this a troll thread? Unintended troll thread but definitely a troll thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incisorr.9502 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 game requires skill to a point then it requires you to queue as a duo while having at least one of you two play a broken class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordrosicky.5813 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Les.4872" said: > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > @"Yannir.4132" said: > > > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > > The skill comes from playing the best build and knowing what rotation to spam against what other builds. That is basically it. There is very little mechanical skill, it is more a knowledge of the game that matters. > > > > > > So the guy that wins a mirror 1v1 several times in a match isn't mechanically more skilled than the other guy? > > > Ofc that doesn't say anything about rotation skills etc. but the point stands. > > > > Possibly but not for sure. The game takes more or less zero mechanical skill beyond clicking buttons. > > Oh yea cause pressing all button = ez win. There are small niche stuff like weapon stow feint/animation cancel, untargeted leap/movement abilities for escaping/kiting and enemy boon awareness that sets a good player apart from the regular folks who think everything is spam. There is a lot of mechanical skill to be learnt if you want to be good at pvp. lol no there isn't. I got rank 1 in solo queue with MMR leaderboards without trying or being good. The game takes no skill. If you think it does you are wrong sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YAOYE.4380 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > @"Les.4872" said: > > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > > @"Yannir.4132" said: > > > > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > > > The skill comes from playing the best build and knowing what rotation to spam against what other builds. That is basically it. There is very little mechanical skill, it is more a knowledge of the game that matters. > > > > > > > > So the guy that wins a mirror 1v1 several times in a match isn't mechanically more skilled than the other guy? > > > > Ofc that doesn't say anything about rotation skills etc. but the point stands. > > > > > > Possibly but not for sure. The game takes more or less zero mechanical skill beyond clicking buttons. > > > > Oh yea cause pressing all button = ez win. There are small niche stuff like weapon stow feint/animation cancel, untargeted leap/movement abilities for escaping/kiting and enemy boon awareness that sets a good player apart from the regular folks who think everything is spam. There is a lot of mechanical skill to be learnt if you want to be good at pvp. > > lol no there isn't. I got rank 1 in solo queue with MMR leaderboards without trying or being good. The game takes no skill. If you think it does you are wrong sorry. I have never seen your username anywhere near the leaderboards NA or EU, and the funniest part is that you claim to be able to do it “easily and without being good” Also the whole game requires no skill Is also funny, put group of gold ranked player against a group of plat ranked player on the same corresponding build, plat ranked group will win the games every single time. Same with one v one duels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abazigal.3679 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Ashkew.6584" said: > assuming those statements are correct for the sake of argument, guess what? The "cheese builds" meet other "cheese builds" and guess who wins those fights? Probably the guy who is more skilled with it. thus to answer the topic, yes there is skill involved. I'd more likely say the team who loses is the one who is the less familiar in dealing with cheese builds. From my experience in " average rating ", it's more likely about the losing team incompetence than the winning team skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les.4872 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > @"Les.4872" said: > > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > > @"Yannir.4132" said: > > > > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > > > The skill comes from playing the best build and knowing what rotation to spam against what other builds. That is basically it. There is very little mechanical skill, it is more a knowledge of the game that matters. > > > > > > > > So the guy that wins a mirror 1v1 several times in a match isn't mechanically more skilled than the other guy? > > > > Ofc that doesn't say anything about rotation skills etc. but the point stands. > > > > > > Possibly but not for sure. The game takes more or less zero mechanical skill beyond clicking buttons. > > > > Oh yea cause pressing all button = ez win. There are small niche stuff like weapon stow feint/animation cancel, untargeted leap/movement abilities for escaping/kiting and enemy boon awareness that sets a good player apart from the regular folks who think everything is spam. There is a lot of mechanical skill to be learnt if you want to be good at pvp. > > lol no there isn't. I got rank 1 in solo queue with MMR leaderboards without trying or being good. The game takes no skill. If you think it does you are wrong sorry. Nice meme. 7/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi.6027 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Yes there is skill. To many players just don’t know what to dodge or how to dodge. Like almost any PvP game you want to make better value trades, stop blowing all your powerful skills into enemy blocks, and don’t waste dodges. Learn to read, and get some game sense. People go on about mirages dogging forever when they don’t even have the most evades lol. People don’t count the seconds a thief is in stealth and insta die lol. List goes on. It’s not that they take no skill, it’s you who needs the skill to play around it, and they have to do the same for your build. Yes there are some pretty hard counter matchups, but those still require a certain level of aptitude that many (especially those who frequently complain) still seem to lack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I said to a friend once that the PVP requires a bit of skill to be successful.... after he farmed everyone in his first game I said he did pretty well for his first match and his response was "its not that hard to press a few buttons"... cant argue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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