apharma.3741 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > * A target teleport. > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > * Somes condiclear. > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlsenSan.2987 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I've had good fights against mesmers in my core thief or d/d thief. Not taking much DMG, since I was good at evading their shatter and with some few cleanse on traits, healing skill and utility as much as good mobility and stealth. I don't really care which class is "OP" I wanna defeat them. The time I spend crying is the time I could have fun playing and learning how to defeat "OP" classes. I'd say thief is the best pvp class, but people in here would say I don't know what I'm talking about. I've win pvp matches in 1vs2 situations against a mesmer and DE. But probably they didn't know what they were doing, right? Or the fact my 2 favorite classes in the game are mirage mesmer and thief, gave me an advantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"OlsenSan.2987" said: > I've had good fights against mesmers in my core thief or d/d thief. Not taking much DMG, since I was good at evading their shatter and with some few cleanse on traits, healing skill and utility as much as good mobility and stealth. I don't really care which class is "OP" I wanna defeat them. The time I spend crying is the time I could have fun playing and learning how to defeat "OP" classes. > I'd say thief is the best pvp class, but people in here would say I don't know what I'm talking about. I've win pvp matches in 1vs2 situations against a mesmer and DE. But probably they didn't know what they were doing, right? Or the fact my 2 favorite classes in the game are mirage mesmer and thief, gave me an advantage? > They prolly didn't. But that doesn't change the reality of the situation, and that is: Less QQ more Pew Pew! If half the ppl I fought tonight were spending as much time trying to win as they did trolling me, they might actually be winning, I'm looking at you Nameless Deadeye! :wink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horan.7013 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"brappish.8715" said: > Is Mirage/Mesmer OP or maybe people are just confused about how to fight them? I hear a lot of "it takes no skill" "its way to powerful" etc. Wondering if maybe those people just can't comprehend how to fight them, what to look for when fighting, what weaknesses there are or maybe they just are too powerful? Just curious It is OP. I admit, I have max level Mirage and I love it. It is god-tier in PvE for sure. Don't take my word for it. Make a Mirage and jump into action. Best part is, it is mesmer. Meaning you can always roll support Chrono which is the alpha and the omega of the end content PvE. DPS Mirage (both condi & power), DPS Chrono, and support Chrono. Mesmer got'em all!! Supreme class for sure!!! Anet's golden child. And don't worry about Mirage being OP and might suffer from nerf hammer. What I've noticed is that GW2 community is somehow very tolerable to mesmer being OP in all game modes (I think because of the majority of the GW2 player base focus on PvE, that they don't want mesmer to suffer, which could affect support chrono, hence potentially make raid more difficult). Anet might do some Mirage specific nerf but can't be that bad. Meme aside, mesmer class in general somehow feels like Dev's favorite class. They will nerf thief instead. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Horan.7013" said: > > @"brappish.8715" said: > > Is Mirage/Mesmer OP or maybe people are just confused about how to fight them? I hear a lot of "it takes no skill" "its way to powerful" etc. Wondering if maybe those people just can't comprehend how to fight them, what to look for when fighting, what weaknesses there are or maybe they just are too powerful? Just curious > > It is OP. I admit, I have max level Mirage and I love it. It is god-tier in PvE for sure. Don't take my word for it. Make a Mirage and jump into action. Best part is, it is mesmer. Meaning you can always roll support Chrono which is the alpha and the omega of the end content PvE. > DPS Mirage (both condi & power), DPS Chrono, and support Chrono. Mesmer got'em all!! Supreme class for sure!!! Anet's golden child. > > And don't worry about Mirage being OP and might suffer from nerf hammer. What I've noticed is that GW2 community is somehow very tolerable to mesmer being OP in all game modes (I think because of the majority of the GW2 player base focus on PvE, that they don't want mesmer to suffer, which could affect support chrono, hence potentially make raid more difficult). > > Anet might do some Mirage specific nerf but can't be that bad. Meme aside, mesmer class in general somehow feels like Dev's favorite class. > > They will nerf thief instead. :) > Posting in separate threads about the same thing, doesn't make you right :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryorion.9532 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > * A target teleport. > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. Ok, let's try it another way... What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. > > Ok, let's try it another way... > What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. > The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... You don’t know what the term OP means. Having access to a wide variety of builds and how a class is played isn’t OP. But you keep making that claim. You’re sounding like the usual uneducated player who thinks Mesmers have access to both Mirage and Chrono traits and utilities at once. So let us know where you’re confused at and we will educate you on how Mesmers really play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryorion.9532 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"phokus.8934" said: > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > > > > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. > > > > Ok, let's try it another way... > > What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. > > The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... > You don’t know what the term OP means. > > Having access to a wide variety of builds and how a class is played isn’t OP. But you keep making that claim. > > You’re sounding like the usual uneducated player who thinks Mesmers have access to both Mirage and Chrono traits and utilities at once. So let us know where you’re confused at and we will educate you on how Mesmers really play. > There is no point in reasoning with someone like you. Because no matter how hard I would try, it would be pointless. Seriously, learn to read maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. > > Ok, let's try it another way... > What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. > The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... What is mesmer missing? Are we talking a hypothetical unicorn build that can never exist or real builds that can exist? Mesmer can't have it all in one build unlike FB which has almost everything in 1 build. Let me refer you to an excellent post: > @"viquing.8254" said: > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > * Access to 7 different conditions. > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > * A target teleport. > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > * Somes condiclear. > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryorion.9532 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > > > > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. > > > > Ok, let's try it another way... > > What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. > > The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... > > What is mesmer missing? Are we talking a hypothetical unicorn build that can never exist or real builds that can exist? Mesmer can't have it all in one build unlike FB which has almost everything in 1 build. > > Let me refer you to an excellent post: > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > * A target teleport. > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > * Somes condiclear. > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > For the 10th time, I was talking about class in general. That means everything the class has access to. All you do, is comapre one meta build of firebrand in PvP which is obviously overpowered, but act like mesmer isn't op at all. Mesmer/chrono/mirage have always access to self/mass stealth, self ports, portal, distortion, reflects, heavy cc, boon management, blinds, ... Firebrand is op as elite spec. Mesmer is op as whole class. If you read what I wrote before, you would probably know that I was talking about the class in general. What did I even think coming on mesmer forum, trying to argue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brappish.8715 Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. > > Ok, let's try it another way... > What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. > The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... Ive played mes for six years and I've never needed it nerfed or buffed. I just overcame any situation by losing 1000 times and learning. The only time I ever felt maybe mes was too powerful was when PU phantasm build was a thing. Was so unstoppable. Mes now just seems like a mind fuck (confusing) for people to fight. thats all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brappish.8715 Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > > > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > > > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > > > > > > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. > > > > > > Ok, let's try it another way... > > > What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. > > > The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... > > > > What is mesmer missing? Are we talking a hypothetical unicorn build that can never exist or real builds that can exist? Mesmer can't have it all in one build unlike FB which has almost everything in 1 build. > > > > Let me refer you to an excellent post: > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > * A target teleport. > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > For the 10th time, I was talking about class in general. That means everything the class has access to. All you do, is comapre one meta build of firebrand in PvP which is obviously overpowered, but act like mesmer isn't op at all. Mesmer/chrono/mirage have always access to self/mass stealth, self ports, portal, distortion, reflects, heavy cc, boon management, blinds, ... > Firebrand is op as elite spec. Mesmer is op as whole class. If you read what I wrote before, you would probably know that I was talking about the class in general. > What did I even think coming on mesmer forum, trying to argue... K go play mesmer ranked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > > > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > > > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > > > > > > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. > > > > > > Ok, let's try it another way... > > > What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. > > > The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... > > > > What is mesmer missing? Are we talking a hypothetical unicorn build that can never exist or real builds that can exist? Mesmer can't have it all in one build unlike FB which has almost everything in 1 build. > > > > Let me refer you to an excellent post: > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > * A target teleport. > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > For the 10th time, I was talking about class in general. That means everything the class has access to. All you do, is comapre one meta build of firebrand in PvP which is obviously overpowered, but act like mesmer isn't op at all. Mesmer/chrono/mirage have always access to self/mass stealth, self ports, portal, distortion, reflects, heavy cc, boon management, blinds, ... > Firebrand is op as elite spec. Mesmer is op as whole class. If you read what I wrote before, you would probably know that I was talking about the class in general. > What did I even think coming on mesmer forum, trying to argue... It is very pertinent what you can have in a single build. If you can have nearly everything in the game **in one build** then it is clearly overpowered. If your class can do everything or have access to almost everything but has to pick and choose what they bring to situations then it's more balanced. It's what we call opportunity/cost and is a balancing point of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > > > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > > > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > > > > > > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. > > > > > > Ok, let's try it another way... > > > What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. > > > The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... > > > > What is mesmer missing? Are we talking a hypothetical unicorn build that can never exist or real builds that can exist? Mesmer can't have it all in one build unlike FB which has almost everything in 1 build. > > > > Let me refer you to an excellent post: > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > * A target teleport. > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > For the 10th time, I was talking about class in general. That means everything the class has access to. All you do, is comapre one meta build of firebrand in PvP which is obviously overpowered, but act like mesmer isn't op at all. Mesmer/chrono/mirage have always access to self/mass stealth, self ports, portal, distortion, reflects, heavy cc, boon management, blinds, ... > Firebrand is op as elite spec. Mesmer is op as whole class. If you read what I wrote before, you would probably know that I was talking about the class in general. > What did I even think coming on mesmer forum, trying to argue... I will respond to you, with your own comment if you don't mind. > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > There is no point in reasoning with someone like you. Because no matter how hard I would try, it would be pointless. > Seriously, learn to read maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 The new trend to call Mesmer OP because it has several builds is pretty funny considering one of the major complaints about the game since launch is the lack of build variety. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > > > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > > > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > > > > > > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. > > > > > > Ok, let's try it another way... > > > What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. > > > The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... > > You don’t know what the term OP means. > > > > Having access to a wide variety of builds and how a class is played isn’t OP. But you keep making that claim. > > > > You’re sounding like the usual uneducated player who thinks Mesmers have access to both Mirage and Chrono traits and utilities at once. So let us know where you’re confused at and we will educate you on how Mesmers really play. > > > > There is no point in reasoning with someone like you. Because no matter how hard I would try, it would be pointless. > Seriously, learn to read maybe? I've read this topic and you tried but you failed miserably because it's all baseless. Stop posting with ridiculous claims and use actual facts then maybe we can have a good conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 > @"FaboBabo.3581" said: > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > Whats the point of asking if Mesmer is OP in the Mesmer Forum? Ask it in the PvP Forum if you want usefull answers. > > What's the point of asking something in a forum with 90% of Players less skillfull then platinum? (this scenario is not meant aggressively , is just the flat truth) > Balancing should never be designed arround the bad players. Because asking a Mesmer if Mesmer is Op is like asking a Vegan if being Vegan is bad. You dont get a usefull answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryorion.9532 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 > @"phokus.8934" said: > I've read this topic and you tried but you failed miserably because it's all baseless. > > Stop posting with ridiculous claims and use actual facts then maybe we can have a good conversation. So you are basically saying mesmer is not op? What did I fail? I was just expressing my opinion on mesmer class. If you knew what the class is capable of, compared to other classes, you would know those facts. But then, you would be most likely blaming class identity for that. Whatever, everyone has different experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > I've read this topic and you tried but you failed miserably because it's all baseless. > > > > Stop posting with ridiculous claims and use actual facts then maybe we can have a good conversation. > > So you are basically saying mesmer is not op? What did I fail? I was just expressing my opinion on mesmer class. If you knew what the class is capable of, compared to other classes, you would know those facts. But then, you would be most likely blaming class identity for that. > Whatever, everyone has different experiences. I think you're not understanding what OP is. You're saying that Mesmer is OP because they are meta in raids, do exceptionally well in wvw, and are usually brought for portal in pvp. For raids, sure, boonshare Chrono exceeds and no one should even question that. The topic is around Mirage being OP in pvp and maybe to an extent wvw. But when you're saying that Mesmer in general is OP, that doesn't make any sense. Just because the Mesmer class has viable options in all game modes does not mean it's OP. There have been a few responses here saying that Mirage isn't as OP as people make it out to be. Personally I just think people don't care to learn to fight against a Mirage and just give up or perform the same cadence and not trying to actively counter a Mirage. I've been playing primarily Rev recently and conditions eat Revs alive if you don't dodge shatters and it plays very differently against say, a Scourge/Reaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDove.2391 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 > @"Noha.3749" said: > Condi/hybrid mirage is the only thing that could be "considered" op. > But more so in WvW than sPvP. > Scepter/torch + Sword/pistol is really really annoying to fight 1v1 - 1v2, but deals less damage than its Axe counterpart. > Some staff condis have also shown up that are quite surviveable.. but well.. Overall they are just alot of work to wither down compared to more straight forward professions. > > Imo Scepter instead of axe is stronger due to 4cd block which applies a savage torment on the enemy, and in a hybrid build scepter 3 deals crazy power AND condidamage. Am learning. Cannot find what "Hybrid" entails. Different from a Power Build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brappish.8715 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 Picked up dead eye last night for the first time ever. Within 30 minutes I was desecrating people left right and center at mid and in the team fights and 1v1s. Also, 3 other people including my self (while playing on my mirage burst build) chased around 1 spell breaker for about 5 min in a spvp match hitting constant 0s, blocks, evades and he still managed to down and kill one of us. Your arguement of mirage being OP is slowly becoming invalid. but ya, sure, mirage is op. *hops on a dead eye, downs 4 people in 6 seconds* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reh.5986 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I think it's fine...at least in wvw. Condi mirage as a possible exception. Wvw is full of glass immortals atm and power mes/mirage has to work pretty hard against anyone that knows how to play their class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 > @"Reh.5986" said: > I think it's fine...at least in wvw. Condi mirage as a possible exception. > > Wvw is full of glass immortals atm and power mes/mirage has to work pretty hard against anyone that knows how to play their class. Yeah playing power mirage requires a lot more effort vs current meta builds even more so if you're running a build like JazzXman's or my adapted version below http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhEQNAR8fnELDlphVoB2oBMMjFVDz/AuAjgkBgCwOpsDcc2GA-jFCFAB8fEAW4iAclSwCV/BgHAgc7PkmuBkU+RKAqUGB-w Heaven help you if you play sword weaver too, most players can disengage or kite you and there's not a lot you can do if you're out in the open for WvW. More balanced in PvP though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 A lot of people are making the mistake of tab cycle through. Do your self a favour and delete that key bind. The real mesmer will have a red triangle pointing down at them, above their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > > > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > > > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > > > > > > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. > > > > > > Ok, let's try it another way... > > > What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. > > > The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... > > > > What is mesmer missing? Are we talking a hypothetical unicorn build that can never exist or real builds that can exist? Mesmer can't have it all in one build unlike FB which has almost everything in 1 build. > > > > Let me refer you to an excellent post: > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > * A target teleport. > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > For the 10th time, I was talking about class in general. That means everything the class has access to. All you do, is comapre one meta build of firebrand in PvP which is obviously overpowered, but act like mesmer isn't op at all. Mesmer/chrono/mirage have always access to self/mass stealth, self ports, portal, distortion, reflects, heavy cc, boon management, blinds, ... > Firebrand is op as elite spec. Mesmer is op as whole class. If you read what I wrote before, you would probably know that I was talking about the class in general. > What did I even think coming on mesmer forum, trying to argue... The amount of BS in that post could fertalize a harvest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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