FaboBabo.3581 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"FaboBabo.3581" said: > > Yesterday we went into a tower, since it had open walls, and we found a spellbreaker. > > He was solo and allready started The legend. > > > > Seeing us, a 5 man Group , he runned away. Me as Mirage + my Holo friend chased and brought him to downstate. > > My holo left as i cleaved a little bit and put some condis on him so he could bleed out. > > This was like 3000-6000 units away from Turret. > > > > So as i wanted to go back to my other mates, the warrior suddenly stood up. > > It was too early for his selfrevive skill, so what the actual kitton was happening here? > > > > > > My mates killed the Legend 3000-6000 units away, which made warrior rally. > > > > > > > > I didnt knew about this. > > He could escape. > > > > Downstate , but no rally is fine i guess. > > So you're blaiming a rally for your mistake of not stomping? If this isnt a place where you are supposed to say l2p I dont know what is... > WvW isnt PvP where you tactically leave downed to increase respawn time. In WvW you stomp asap or kitten happens. Welcome to WvW. I have no problem that this was indeed a learn to play issue in the current situation. I simply didnt knew that u could rally from kills X miles away. I can easily adapt to that in the current state, but i want to point out that this specific interaction should not happen at all. Has nothing to do with "welcome to WvW". In a normal fight situation I'm expecting rallys of course, but in that specific one... no way i would have ever thaught that this works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artaz.3819 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Current downstate BUT revert Quickness boon to affect stomp cast time (for WvW). The reasoning is simple - boon removal was nowhere near as prevalent as it is now. Start with a tweak and then re-evaluate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scerevisiae.1972 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 No downed state (worst game feature ever developed/implemented in the history of MMOs), and buff HP across the board by 30% to compensate. I bet a lot/most of people voting for no downed state are afraid of insta-ganking but I think it's pretty obvious you couldn't just remove downed state without some kind of across the board HP or defense buff, keeping damage the same. Ironically it is the existence of downed state that allows insta-gank mechanics to exist. Remove downed state and insta-ganks would also necessarily be rebalanced. I still shake my head and wonder at who ever thought that it would be fun/interesting/rewarding to be locked into this weird kind of mini-game with 4 crappy & mostly useless skills for half your effective HP. What was wrong with regular MMO rez mechanics that downed state fixes? nothing. The stupidly disruptive and unfun downed state mechanic I think is one of the major reasons why competitive PVP failed so hard in this game. Pretty much everyone hated it and left for better games and now only those who can tolerate it are still around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Standardized hp to be the same for all classes in down state and have less rally / rez chases. Its ok to have down state but its no fun when low hp classes effectually have no downstate at all because of the low hp but other classes have unbelievably strong down state because of there high base hp. Right now the current system is some classes have down state others do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilSardine.9635 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 I've love for the downed state to be removed. Why would you want to give the already larger group who has an advantage even more of an advantage? I don't know why it's even in WvW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juno.1840 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I don't like downstate (and voted as such). However there are certain cheese mechanics that should go if downstate is removed. That includes gimmicks where a single person can slowly pick off one player in a larger team with little repercussion. High damage attacks from stealth, unblockable damage chains, etc. along with long periods of invulnerability have to go. Otherwise removing downstate promotes more toxic play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos.4263 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I have no problem with either downstate or rally. But remove revive from defeated and make everyone walk back when defeated. At least you could use map position and attrition to your advantage even when outnumbered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iozeph.5617 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 If removing downed state remove it completely. No revive after defeat. Immediate transfer to your side's Citadel or Border Waypoint. And to take it several further. Remove Emergency Waypoints, secondary waypoints such as Valley, Lowlands, Overlook, Stonemist, Garrison, Hills, and Bay Wapoints (and whatever they are in the desert borderlands because it's a rubbish borderland and I don't care to remember whatever they're called.) On top of that remove all run speed increases, run speed boons, and super speed boons from all traits, profession abilities, sigils, and runes. Yeah- so you want an end to blob on blob? Make it harder for them to find and meet each other in the open field. Then strategy comes back into this game mode(assuming they aren't cheating via a third party VOIP program to coordinate battles). Small bands of roamers are going to be able to sneak around and have the time to attack objectives before porting, speed running blobs are able to respond. Then defence and coverage will matter more. Instead of the arsegrabbing hot mess we have now- with all the hallmarks of a bad Emain Macha flashback. Seriously, is this 2018 or 2003? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 > @"Iozeph.5617" said: > Seriously, is this 2018 or 2003? 2018 obviously, the year when everything has to be politically correct or people get triggered and when downed state suddenly went from being a core functionality that made GW2 combat popular to apparently being the thing that is killing WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oOStaticOo.9467 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Iozeph.5617" said: > > Seriously, is this 2018 or 2003? > 2018 obviously, the year when everything has to be politically correct or people get triggered and when downed state suddenly went from being a core functionality that made GW2 combat popular to apparently being the thing that is killing WvW. > And yet the poll shows more people still want Downstate in the game. Maybe now we can stop bringing up these threads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > And yet the poll shows more people still want Downstate in the game. Maybe now we can stop bringing up these threads? Pretty narrow margin after just one week of playing the game without it. Give us a few more no downed state week events and see if more people change their minds. I think they might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rng.1024 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 No downstate if killed by someone with the outnumbered buff (given the UI symbol gets visible for everyone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Would love to see it heavily nerfed and wouldnt mind the complete removal of it but i doubt thats ever gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iozeph.5617 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > @"Iozeph.5617" said: > > > Seriously, is this 2018 or 2003? > > 2018 obviously, the year when everything has to be politically correct or people get triggered and when downed state suddenly went from being a core functionality that made GW2 combat popular to apparently being the thing that is killing WvW. > > > > And yet the poll shows more people still want Downstate in the game. Maybe now we can stop bringing up these threads? I don't mind if downed state stays. my previous post just says you remove that then remove every advantage blobs have in maintaining a five hundred pound gorilla defence because downed state is an insignificant part of it. More, I'm just wondering- if and when it's taken away- what will they bellyache and whinge about and say is the next thing to blame for wvw being broken -apart from the problems with objective geometry, along with the population and profession balance that have been there from the beginning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero.3871 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > @"Iozeph.5617" said: > > > Seriously, is this 2018 or 2003? > > 2018 obviously, the year when everything has to be politically correct or people get triggered and when downed state suddenly went from being a core functionality that made GW2 combat popular to apparently being the thing that is killing WvW. > > > > And yet the poll shows more people still want Downstate in the game. Maybe now we can stop bringing up these threads? this poll just Shows what every poll before already did: nearly half of the community want at Minimum a heavy nerf to downstate and the other half want it like it is. finally it wouldnt be a good reaction of anet to ignore just 1 of These sides. anet at least HAVE TO discuss this Topic intern and than with the community to find a way that everyone can enjoy the game. **at least there are good Points for both sides**. - downstate as counter against one shot and as newbie helper. - no-downstate for more Fairness in Group fights since wvw has almost never balanced populations. but lets be honest. when was the last big development for wvw (Server linkings?)? there are no Seasons anymore and since pve good every 3 month a new Content and pvp get changes with every Season it is finally time to also improve wvw. this is atm the most by anet abandoned gamemode in gw2. balancing is also mostly About pve and pvp. wvw Needs some love. more than just 1 Event week every 2-3 month... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scerevisiae.1972 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said: > > And yet the poll shows more people still want Downstate in the game. Maybe now we can stop bringing up these threads? > > Pretty narrow margin after just one week of playing the game without it. Give us a few more no downed state week events and see if more people change their minds. I think they might. Yep and that's not even counting the people that hated it so much they left. I remember there were down state hate threads for months after launch. It also doesn't count the people who can't see that down state removal would necessarily come with a rebalance of HP to reduce the ability to insta-kill. It is the existence of down state that makes instakills possible in this game. Even the fact that the game is 6 years old and yet the poll is evenly split after 6 years tells me that down state is still clearly very unpopular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDchiaScrub.3241 Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"Jski.6180" said: > Standardized hp to be the same for all classes in down state and have less rally / rez chases. Its ok to have down state but its no fun when low hp classes effectually have no downstate at all because of the low hp but other classes have unbelievably strong down state because of there high base hp. > > Right now the current system is some classes have down state others do not. Whoa. Something that is discuss-able. **There is an imbalance in effectiveness of downstate across classes including HP, and abilities.** Some have higher potential for disruption than others. Guardian down state 2 can hit 5 while, say, a necromancers downstate 2 can only fear 1. Even the downstate teleports/mist form/invisibility can possibly disrupt the stomps of multiple attackers (or attacks in the case of mist form). Effectiveness will vary from situation (roaming) to situation (blobs). _Also to those trying to use the metrics of this poll for anything, again, I would cautious against this._ The target audience (forum uses) skews results even if we ignore the poor formation of the poll questions themselves. I have suggested another poll variant for those that still wish to act upon it (none have so far). > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said: > True. It probably should have been: > > 1. Current Down State > 2. No Downstate > 3. Have Downstate, but with edits > 4. No Downstate, but with edits > 5. IDC I want to see results > > Unfortunately my only goal was only to remove condescending language so there would be less bickering regarding said language. This would then inspire a little more discussion of mechanics. Obviously I rushed it out in order to fulfill a bargain made else where. At this point I am too lazy to redo it, so feel free to use the above format. > > D: D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Standardized hp to be the same for all classes in down state and have less rally / rez chases. Its ok to have down state but its no fun when low hp classes effectually have no downstate at all because of the low hp but other classes have unbelievably strong down state because of there high base hp. > > > > Right now the current system is some classes have down state others do not. > > Whoa. Something that is discuss-able. **There is an imbalance in effectiveness of downstate across classes including HP, and abilities.** Some have higher potential for disruption than others. Guardian down state 2 can hit 5 while, say, a necromancers downstate 2 can only fear 1. Even the downstate teleports/mist form/invisibility can possibly disrupt the stomps of multiple attackers (or attacks in the case of mist form). Effectiveness will vary from situation (roaming) to situation (blobs). > > _Also to those trying to use the metrics of this poll for anything, again, I would cautious against this._ The target audience (forum uses) skews results even if we ignore the poor formation of the poll questions themselves. I have suggested another poll variant for those that still wish to act upon it (none have so far). > > > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said: > > True. It probably should have been: > > > > 1. Current Down State > > 2. No Downstate > > 3. Have Downstate, but with edits > > 4. No Downstate, but with edits > > 5. IDC I want to see results > > > > Unfortunately my only goal was only to remove condescending language so there would be less bickering regarding said language. This would then inspire a little more discussion of mechanics. Obviously I rushed it out in order to fulfill a bargain made else where. At this point I am too lazy to redo it, so feel free to use the above format. > > > > D: > > D: > What i am talking about is right now ele in wvw getting down has such low hp you dont have time to even use vapor form off. In a way ele has no down state in a big bomb but necro often are more tankly in down state then alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"scerevisiae.1972" said: > Even the fact that the game is 6 years old and yet the poll is evenly split after 6 years tells me that down state is still clearly very unpopular. There is a hundred votes in it. That's like me joining WvW at 04:00 and claiming that WvW is clearly very dead because no one is playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"scerevisiae.1972" said: > > Even the fact that the game is 6 years old and yet the poll is evenly split after 6 years tells me that down state is still clearly very unpopular. > There is a hundred votes in it. > > That's like me joining WvW at 04:00 and claiming that WvW is clearly very dead because no one is playing. Well either the poll is representative of this forums general sentiment or it isn't. I was initially responding to someone who clearly thought it was. I'm perfectly open to the possibility that it's not but that also means that it's possible that no downed state is more popular than this poll would suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straegen.2938 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 The current Downstate/Rally mechanic created a system where experienced players shun new players. I don't want a newb anywhere near my fight as they are a liability. Commanders don't want them in zergs either. The Downstate mechanic actively promotes freezing out certain builds, certain players, etc. On top of this, the concept supports numbers over skill. On the No Downstate week, most skilled players were rejoicing because suddenly being good was way more important than being with numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 > @"Straegen.2938" said: > On top of this, the concept supports numbers over skill. On the No Downstate week, most skilled players were rejoicing because suddenly being good was way more important than being with numbers. "Being good" works great in games like CoD or CS:GO and similar, not so much in an MMORPG where "being good" is often as simple as bringing your build against a build that cant fight your build. Which, again, is exactly why downed state is there. Skill is a factor, numbers is a factor, builds are a factor and yes, downed state is a factor too... But compared to the absolute dominance of the three previous, its a minor factor. Maybe 10%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straegen.2938 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Straegen.2938" said: > > On top of this, the concept supports numbers over skill. On the No Downstate week, most skilled players were rejoicing because suddenly being good was way more important than being with numbers. > "Being good" works great in games like CoD or CS:GO and similar, not so much in an MMORPG where "being good" is often as simple as bringing your build against a build that cant fight your build. > > Which, again, is exactly why downed state is there. Skill is a factor, numbers is a factor, builds are a factor and yes, downed state is a factor too... But compared to the absolute dominance of the three previous, its a minor factor. Maybe 10%. A good player will stomp a mediocre or worse player even in a mismatched build. I duel almost daily and constantly beat solid players in builds that are a rock to my scissors. I can say this with certainty... during the no downstate week. Average roaming players of 3+ are hamburger to a really good player. Every other time, being able to get a stomp off with the AoE pressure and knockbacks in the game coupled with fast rez, stealth rez, etc is an exercise in getting killed fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manucab.4573 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I'd personally like to make downs have less HP. Or removing downstate but adding an easy to see icon showing when someone died, something similar to the mark popping when you down an enemy. I really enjoyed the no-downstate weekend however it felt weird to kill enemy groups since you don't even know if they stealthed or died or whatever, they just dissapear haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scerevisiae.1972 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"scerevisiae.1972" said: > > Even the fact that the game is 6 years old and yet the poll is evenly split after 6 years tells me that down state is still clearly very unpopular. > There is a hundred votes in it. > > That's like me joining WvW at 04:00 and claiming that WvW is clearly very dead because no one is playing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_(statistics) You actually only need around 100 samples of even quite large populations in order to get quite close to the actual result... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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