Lab squads often wasteful

[Biff.5312]

Hey just thought I'd mention here something I've been noticing lately. Squads touring the lab are often moving too fast, with too few members, so that although everyone's tagging all the mobs, a good 20-40% of the mobs are not actually dying, and just recover when the squad passes. That's lost loot. When you're running a squad, maybe make sure the back end are cleaning up, and don't go so fast that people are running past things without tagging them. Just a tip, as I've been in several groups lately and noticed this happening. As an experiment, I went into a near-empty lab and soloed for 20 minutes, and got MORE ToTs than I did in comparable time-spans in squads. No point hitting things if you don't kill them.

[hugo.4705]

Agree but also very often squads are small too so impossible to kill bosses apart the horror. The best to do is killing every mobs on your path + opening mob waves doors, ignoring bosses + farming a lot the center.

[Boysenberry.1869]

I just hate the commanders that ignore the doors that spawn dozens of monsters. They roam aimlessly for 10 minutes while that door is up and by the time they get there some solo player already got to it. Same for the next wave door, and the next...

 

For a player like me that only does lab in short bursts, those specific doors are gold mines that I guess the 10-hour grind-fest commanders don't care about. The Veteran and Boss doors can be skipped. Their rewards are meh.

[CedarDog.9723]

> @"Biff.5312" said:

> Hey just thought I'd mention here something I've been noticing lately. Squads touring the lab are often moving too fast, with too few members, so that although everyone's tagging all the mobs, a good 20-40% of the mobs are not actually dying, and just recover when the squad passes. That's lost loot. When you're running a squad, maybe make sure the back end are cleaning up, and don't go so fast that people are running past things without tagging them. Just a tip, as I've been in several groups lately and noticed this happening. As an experiment, I went into a near-empty lab and soloed for 20 minutes, and got MORE ToTs than I did in comparable time-spans in squads. No point hitting things if you don't kill them.

 

Really? My experience this year and in previous years is that a lot of the squads (that I leave quickly) are large and have a number of turds who do as much AoE and maximum DPS as possible so that barely anyone has the opportunity to tag the mobs. I know I could do the same thing, but I'd rather not be a turd.

 

 

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"hugo.4705" said:

> Agree but also very often squads are small too so impossible to kill bosses apart the horror. The best to do is killing every mobs on your path + opening mob waves doors, ignoring bosses + farming a lot the center.

 

you don't need a big group for any of the bosses but group composition will matter more

[Biff.5312]

 

> Really? My experience this year and in previous years is that a lot of the squads (that I leave quickly) are large and have a number of turds who do as much AoE and maximum DPS as possible so that barely anyone has the opportunity to tag the mobs. I know I could do the same thing, but I'd rather not be a kitten.

>

>

I've seen that too, but where the groups are smaller the error seems to go the opposite way. Not saying this is a major problem, just something to keep an eye on. In all cases, the group should ideally be physically close to one-another so people aren't left behind and it's more obvious when mobs are left unkilled. But yes, definitely people who try to burst the mobs down at the front of the squad should be reprimanded.

 

[Biff.5312]

 

> you don't need a big group for any of the bosses but group composition will matter more

 

It's not so much that you need a big group as that the time spent vs the drops you get aren't worth it. I was with a group that insisted on doing Lich and it took almost 15 minutes to kill it. In that time we could have done a circuit of the rest of the maze. For people trying to maximize loot, it's not a good choice. Of course, if it's for fun - go for it.

[Danikat.8537]

I've noticed both problems - people at the front killing things too quickly and small squads missing a lot of enemies. The second one is more common on maps I'm on, but maybe because I tend to look for small, casual groups. I'm one of the people who will trail along behind and 'clean up' so it doesn't bother me but maybe I should start prompting other people when we're missing a lot of enemies, especially when there's no doors to get to.

 

While we're on the subject though my pet peeve recently has been commanders who don't follow their own rules - ones who put 'no mounts' in the description then hop on their raptor to rush to the next door, or say they're doing all the doors and then skip the bosses. I honestly don't care what your rules are, write whatever you like in the description but please stick to your own rules.

[Weindrasi.3805]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> I've noticed both problems - people at the front killing things too quickly and small squads missing a lot of enemies. The second one is more common on maps I'm on, but maybe because I tend to look for small, casual groups. I'm one of the people who will trail along behind and 'clean up' so it doesn't bother me but maybe I should start prompting other people when we're missing a lot of enemies, especially when there's no doors to get to.

>

> While we're on the subject though my pet peeve recently has been commanders who don't follow their own rules - ones who put 'no mounts' in the description then hop on their raptor to rush to the next door, or say they're doing all the doors and then skip the bosses. I honestly don't care what your rules are, write whatever you like in the description but please stick to your own rules.

 

Perhaps it isn't the original commander. Sometimes I enter a lab run right as the commander is getting ready to tag down, and I tag up just to keep the squad going. I do try to stick to the rules advertised on the thread initially, since that's what the squad has had up to the point I arrive, but I can see a lot of people not doing the same.

[Weindrasi.3805]

> @"Boysenberry.1869" said:

> I just hate the commanders that ignore the doors that spawn dozens of monsters. They roam aimlessly for 10 minutes while that door is up and by the time they get there some solo player already got to it. Same for the next wave door, and the next...

>

> For a player like me that only does lab in short bursts, those specific doors are gold mines that I guess the 10-hour grind-fest commanders don't care about. The Veteran and Boss doors can be skipped. Their rewards are meh.

 

AGREED! I leave lab runs as soon as a commander does that, it's just UGH

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Boysenberry.1869" said:

> I just hate the commanders that ignore the doors that spawn dozens of monsters. They roam aimlessly for 10 minutes while that door is up and by the time they get there some solo player already got to it. Same for the next wave door, and the next...

>

> For a player like me that only does lab in short bursts, those specific doors are gold mines that I guess the 10-hour grind-fest commanders don't care about. The Veteran and Boss doors can be skipped. Their rewards are meh.

 

I've seen ones the skip mob doors but go for the ones that spawn a single vet ...

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Boysenberry.1869" said:

> > I just hate the commanders that ignore the doors that spawn dozens of monsters. They roam aimlessly for 10 minutes while that door is up and by the time they get there some solo player already got to it. Same for the next wave door, and the next...

> >

> > For a player like me that only does lab in short bursts, those specific doors are gold mines that I guess the 10-hour grind-fest commanders don't care about. The Veteran and Boss doors can be skipped. Their rewards are meh.

>

> I've seen ones the skip mob doors but go for the ones that spawn a single vet ...

 

I guess it goes to show that there's no guarantee random people on the internet have engaged in productive thought.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

The underlying issue is that not all groups work the same way, but most commanders don't adjust as the composition changes. The efficient commanders stay just ahead of the main group and don't let huge tails develop. They notice when the zerg is amorphous instead of focused, if they aren't doing enough damage to the transients... and they adjust the route accordingly.

 

Similarly most of us don't necessarily adjust what we're doing to meld well with particular commanders or squads.

 

On the whole, I've found the best solution for me is to change maps until I find one that suits my mood. I'd rather change maps 5 times than feel like I'm getting my teeth pulled by an unsuitable squad.

[googel.3278]

I love seeing commanders rage on why mob spawning doors disappear on map but door stayed open for 10 or more minutes, what the hell were they doing, making love with their hand(s)? Probably a solo player fed up of incompetent commanders.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> my pet peeve recently has been commanders who don't follow their own rules - ones who put 'no mounts' in the description then hop on their raptor to rush to the next door, or say they're doing all the doors and then skip the bosses.

I wondered about this, too.

Is it possible that the LFG is from a previous commander who left and the auto-promoted lieutenant has different ideas about how to proceed?

 

And to be fair, commanding can be stressful for some people. The labyrinth is sometimes the first (and only) place some people command, so they're still earning what works and what doesn't. (Then again, the best commander I've seen this month was new to it; the worst was experienced.)

 

 

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> And to be fair, commanding can be stressful for some people.

So many commanders, so few leaders...

 

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > And to be fair, commanding can be stressful for some people.

> So many commanders, so few leaders...

Very true. (Much like RL.)

[FrizzFreston.5290]

Considering its a game, I feel like being a bit wasteful is bound to happen.

[Danikat.8537]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > my pet peeve recently has been commanders who don't follow their own rules - ones who put 'no mounts' in the description then hop on their raptor to rush to the next door, or say they're doing all the doors and then skip the bosses.

> I wondered about this, too.

> Is it possible that the LFG is from a previous commander who left and the auto-promoted lieutenant has different ideas about how to proceed?

>

> And to be fair, commanding can be stressful for some people. The labyrinth is sometimes the first (and only) place some people command, so they're still earning what works and what doesn't. (Then again, the best commander I've seen this month was new to it; the worst was experienced.)

 

I'm sure at least some of it is down to groups switching commander, but even then the new commander should have been part of the group before and be aware of the rules.

 

I completely understand finding commanding stressful though. I finally got a tag back in the summer and even though I'm pretty sure I can run the Lab in my sleep I've not yet been willing to step up and command. I keep telling myself that's because I've always been able to find a group which fits me and has space, and someone else always takes over when the commander leaves, but I am relieved when that happens and I don't have to. And that's with fairly laid back groups who ~~aren't~~ should't be expecting a perfect run to maximise bags.

 

I won't give the commander a hard time if they're breaking the group's rules, I might say something like "Oh are we not doing the boss doors then?" or "I thought the group message said no mounts?" but if they keep it up I'll just leave and find another group to join, it's not like there aren't plenty to choose from. I just find it frustrating when I think I've found one which is a good fit and then the group is not what it claimed to be.

[Tajiseed.7831]

It's down to communications

- commander needs to be clear about the plan and stick to it, and check everyone is broadly keeping up

- team need to say if comm is doing something wrong, (and also positives but that never happens)

 

 

I've picked up command when original has left. It's tricky to get it right, but usually someone in squad will chip in if we've missed something.

 

[Biff.5312]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> The underlying issue is that not all groups work the same way, but most commanders don't adjust as the composition changes. The efficient commanders stay just ahead of the main group and don't let huge tails develop.

 

I agree - and it's because I've found myself having to linger behind and clean up the remaining mobs, thus losing out on the kills at the front of the line, that I thought I'd post about this. Just to hopefully make commanders more aware of what's going on behind them.

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Biff.5312" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > The underlying issue is that not all groups work the same way, but most commanders don't adjust as the composition changes. The efficient commanders stay just ahead of the main group and don't let huge tails develop.

>

> I agree - and it's because I've found myself having to linger behind and clean up the remaining mobs, thus losing out on the kills at the front of the line, that I thought I'd post about this. Just to hopefully make commanders more aware of what's going on behind them.

>

 

Sure, it's worth posting about it. Unfortunately, I fear it won't have an impact: The sort of commanders who are literally walking away from loot aren't likely to realize that they are the ones doing this. The commanders likely to change their behavior after reading this are almost certainly already aware of the length & strength of their zerg tails.

 

So my advice is directed towards the zergling (not the commander): keep swapping maps until you find one that aligns well with your mood & goals. If you expect to spend 2 hours, it's definitely worth it to spend 10-15 minutes: you'll end up with more loot and enjoy the experience more (or at least, be less annoyed).

[Vyrulisse.1246]

> @"Boysenberry.1869" said:

> I just hate the commanders that ignore the doors that spawn dozens of monsters. They roam aimlessly for 10 minutes while that door is up and by the time they get there some solo player already got to it. Same for the next wave door, and the next...

>

> For a player like me that only does lab in short bursts, those specific doors are gold mines that I guess the 10-hour grind-fest commanders don't care about. The Veteran and Boss doors can be skipped. Their rewards are meh.

 

Kinda similar but if you advertise your squad as "ALL DOORS" and skip doors that kinda triggers me. If you're gonna skip doors say so like everyone else. x.x

[Ayakaru.6583]

One thing that botters me when i follow comms, is that they dont run towards doors.

Of course, they dont have to ignore the mobs the along the way, but 89.52% of the time, comms run away from doors. I dont wanna skip, so i tell the comm, he says no, so i break off the squad and go do the door.

Oh, the amount of flame you get... well.. excuse me, not everyone is here to move to through the labby as slowly and inefficient as possible

[Moonyeti.3296]

> @"googel.3278" said:

> I love seeing commanders rage on why mob spawning doors disappear on map but door stayed open for 10 or more minutes, what the hell were they doing, making love with their hand(s)? Probably a solo player fed up of incompetent commanders.

 

Yeah, I had a commander come on to the map and form a group last night. Friendly enough, so ok I join. That commander stopped for every race to give out prizes. Fair enough, but I want to loot, so I leave squad and solo roam. Commander starts yelling at me in map chat because I am opening 'their' doors. Meanwhile after every race they do a 5 min break to reorg the squad. Or stop to fight lich and baron candycorn every time and are mad that I leave to open doors while they do this. Or stop to tell jokes. Again, all well and good as long as you aren't then complaining that not everyone on the map wants to play your slow way. Like, yo commanders, this isn't YOUR map. I was here first, and you suck at leading a group. Get over yourself.