NERF Djinn bosses in PoF

[Dark.1823]

This is ridiculous. Why are Champion Djinn stronger than some Legendary world bosses? These things are on a whole new level of PITA and are not fun to fight at all. With the constant zooming around and deadly attacks, the Djinn are some of the most overpowered bosses in PoF. Who thought it'd be a great idea to make these move around constantly? They're absolutely the worst enemies in the game for melee builds. Their movement needs to be nerfed. Add a 5-10 sec cooldown to their movement. I shouldn't be forced into changing my build for one fight and most certainly shouldn't need a 15+ person squad for a "Champion" Djinn. Where was QA during PoF development?

[Ayrilana.1396]

If that many are needed then it’s a L2P issue.

 

Edit:

 

I'll clarify my post. Outside of specific map metas, everything else can be completed by a party of players due to a thing called scaling. Ever since LS1, players have gotten some idea that the only way to beat something is to just throw more players at it. If a squad of players cannot beat what a group of players can, then it is indeed a L2P issue.

 

It appears that the OP wants a more static champ that just sits there and takes the damage. It's funny that they exaggerate that the djinn zoom around constantly, and would prefer that they have a 5-10 sec cool down between moving, when I don't see any of them moving more frequently than that.

 

They also refuse to change their build such as using a gap closer or ranged weapon. If they're unwilling to make simple adaptations, how does that mean that there's something wrong with the encounter?

 

[Blocki.4931]

What else do you find appropriate for a champ? 5 people? The only time I've seen 5 people struggle would be at the Djinn place in Vabbi or bounties, both of which simply shouldn't be done with only 5 people.

[Dark.1823]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> What else do you find appropriate for a champ? 5 people? The only time I've seen 5 people struggle would be at the Djinn place in Vabbi or bounties, both of which simply shouldn't be done with only 5 people.

 

Actually yes. 5 people for a Champ is a good starting point but lets focus on the real issue with the Djinn; constant rapid movement. The issue is that you can't keep up with the Djinn's mechanic thus you need as many bodies as you can get to keep rezzing downed people. You can't kill a Djinn with a full group, you can easily kill most other Champs though. The point is, Djinn's shouldn't be in a category of their own when it comes to difficulty. They should be comparable to other PoF Champs. The Djinn isn't the only Champ in PoF with issues. There's also the Hydra boss in Oasis that has phases where you gotta chase it around. I've actually never seen anyone ever take it down before. It simply runs too fast. Anyway I've gone a bit offtopic with the Hydra.

[Aaralyna.3104]

Sometimes its actually easier with under 15 players due to scaling. I have had no issues with djinns in pof (i just tagged onto some group or started a lfg/shouted in world myself). I always have at least 1 melee weapon and 1 ranged weapon equipped so I can easily swap around in combat when needed. Moving bosses also tend to stop port around when you have CCed them or at certain times in their attack pattern.

[Randulf.7614]

Djinn are very powerful and were so in gw1 as well (arguably worse). They certainly dont need 15 ppl to kill any champ djinn since some are killable with 3-4. There are a couple in desolation which are a bit harder and need more ppl, but generally champ djinns are just tougher than normal champs. Which one are you referring to specifically?

 

As for the hydra, he was killed a lot in the early days, but there is no incentive to kill it so no one bothers usually now

[Dark.1823]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> Djinn are very powerful and were so in gw1 as well (arguably worse). They certainly dont need 15 ppl to kill any champ djinn since some are killable with 3-4. There are a couple in desolation which are a bit harder and need more ppl, but generally champ djinns are just tougher than normal champs. Which one are you referring to specifically?

>

> As for the hydra, he was killed a lot in the early days, but there is no incentive to kill it so no one bothers usually now

 

I disagree. The Djinn in GW2 are completely different from Djinn in GW1. The game mechanics between GW1 and GW2 alone are so vastly different, that you can't really compare the two games. The Djinn were much easier in GW1 because you could always bring skills to counter a certain mob type. GW2 doesn't have that. Your only options in GW2 are melee or ranged. There are no skill counters for mob types. You get 2 dodges and that's it.

 

The Djinn I'm referring to are the bounty Champs and Legendary in The Desolation and Vabbi. Legendaries are usually not as much of an issue since you can easily find a squad running around specifically going after Legendaries. Champs and bounties are the harder ones since people generally wont go after those. Djinn Champs are also disliked among Champs due to their increased difficulty.

 

As I've been saying though. Topic. The moving around is the problem.

[Randulf.7614]

You prob should have clarified as bounty champs vs normal champs. The distinction is huge. Champ djinns are easily killed with a small party and use of cc. Bounty djinns use additional randomised mechanics and are designed for larger groups.

 

Im not a fan of bounties, they dont really fit very well and i hate the random element.. However, gw2 is designed for you to change from melee to ranged or even your build on the fly. So whilst these things can be a pain, the onus is on you and the group to adjust.

 

This is no different from things like vinetooth where you must change your build for one fight so you are appropriately set up. Bounties are set up for you to adjust rather than walk in unprepared, so yes you def need to change up and adjust against such an opponent. I play a sword weaver, but id never go in without my sceptre equipped in a fight clearly designed for ranged.

 

There is no QA issue here

[Dark.1823]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> You prob should have clarified as bounty champs vs normal champs. The distinction is huge. Champ djinns are easily killed with a small party and use of cc. Bounty djinns use additional randomised mechanics and are designed for larger groups.

>

> Im not a fan of bounties, they dont really fit very well and i hate the random element.. However, gw2 is designed for you to change from melee to ranged or even your build on the fly. So whilst these things can be a pain, the onus is on you and the group to adjust.

>

> This is no different from things like vinetooth where you must change your build for one fight so you are appropriately set up. Bounties are set up for you to adjust rather than walk in unprepared, so yes you def need to change up and adjust against such an opponent. I play a sword weaver, but id never go in without my sceptre equipped in a fight clearly designed for ranged.

>

> There is no QA issue here

 

As a Weaver myself, I had to switch to ranged as well.

 

I actually didn't know that bounty Champs are different from normal Champs. For normal Champs, I'm used to being able to handle them with a group of people so I naturally assumed the same for bounty Champs. I've been doing a lot of bounties recently and joining the occasional Legendary bounty run where the Djinn were always the ones who caused the most downs/deaths in the squad. I've been trying to get people together for some achievements and the Djinn are currently holding me back hence this thread. They look doable but the moment they start running around and then even aggroing mobs around them, everything starts to go bad. It's already hard to get a group together to help with achievements, much more so to get a squad together. People easily get discouraged when they see a Djinn running around causing chaos. Anet needs to realize this and adjust things in a way so people wont avoid them. I'm not saying totally nerf the Djinn into pushovers but at least do something about their moving around all the time. I can hardly stay in the blue ring when they move around, especially with the "in combat" slowdown.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> You prob should have clarified as bounty champs vs normal champs. The distinction is huge. Champ djinns are easily killed with a small party and use of cc. Bounty djinns use additional randomised mechanics and are designed for larger groups.

>

> Im not a fan of bounties, they dont really fit very well and i hate the random element.. However, gw2 is designed for you to change from melee to ranged or even your build on the fly. So whilst these things can be a pain, the onus is on you and the group to adjust.

>

> This is no different from things like vinetooth where you must change your build for one fight so you are appropriately set up. Bounties are set up for you to adjust rather than walk in unprepared, so yes you def need to change up and adjust against such an opponent. I play a sword weaver, but id never go in without my sceptre equipped in a fight clearly designed for ranged.

>

> There is no QA issue here

 

There actually is one, but its's not tied to the djinns specifically but to the specific random bounty mechanics. Some of them just don't work well when coupled with boss-specific mechanics. Or maybe the opposite - they work way _too_ well, making kiling the boss a really aggravating process.

 

Especially high movement coupled with the exploiter, phase-shifted or signaler instabilities.

[ErickDntn.1847]

It's always satisfying for me to see the condi ticks when up against a champ and legendary djinn with my Mirage, especially because of their nature of moving around a lot and using skill within a short interval.

 

But if strictly speaking of djinn bounties, I did notice that some ley-line instabilities are making the encounter exponentially worst (I'm talking about Signaler, Phase-Shifted, and Flash Freeze primarily). Not to mention most time their breakbar are locked (at least as far as I notice). I noticed that these three instabilities along with djinns mechanic have made many players in bounty group quite frustrated and always ended up with the blaming game if failed.

 

But I think it's the instabilities that do more sin than the djinns themselves since I have never had issues with champ or leggy djinns that empowered by less consequential instabilities. In my opinion, these instabilities' damage nullifying effect is just too extreme for an unorganized group content, and for some enemy types like djinn, they aren't coupled well. For example, a sword weaver will be invalidated occasionally with Phase-Shifted, or stop signal if you melee the djinn. I think instead of making players perma miss/blind/block for deviating from the instabilities, they should be doing less damage instead. Also, it can be super difficult to notice Flash Freeze in a huge group, it would be a huge quality of life if they add telegraph to it as well.

[XECOR.2814]

Isnt it the one that keeps teleporting to various locations? I soloed it once.

[Deepcuts.9740]

Hard to achieve but not impossible: bounty djinns and their fast movement can be countered with a tag and everyone else just stacking on that tag and NOT following the bounty.

Just stack and wait for it to come to you. Problem solved.

Warning: do NOT do this with the legendary bounty djinn.

Now trying to get a bunch of random people to do something like this....another problem.

 

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> If that many are needed then it’s a L2P issue.

>

> Edit:

>

> I'll clarify my post. Outside of specific map metas, everything else can be completed by a party of players due to a thing called scaling. Ever since LS1, players have gotten some idea that the only way to beat something is to just throw more players at it. If a squad of players cannot beat what a group of players can, then it is indeed a L2P issue.

>

> It appears that the OP wants a more static champ that just sits there and takes the damage. It's funny that they exaggerate that the djinn zoom around constantly, and would prefer that they have a 5-10 sec cool down between moving, when I don't see any of them moving more frequently than that.

>

> They also refuse to change their build such as using a gap closer or ranged weapon. If they're unwilling to make simple adaptations, how does that mean that there's something wrong with the encounter?

>

 

The movement depends on the type/element of the djinn. Fire djinns do not move around much. It is probably the air djinns that move around a lot but it is not just movement. They are using a movement skill which is also a CC(forgot if it was a daze or stun). Now before anyone jumps up and shout "Stability!" go and remind the devs to actually give better access to it on various classes first.

 

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > You prob should have clarified as bounty champs vs normal champs. The distinction is huge. Champ djinns are easily killed with a small party and use of cc. Bounty djinns use additional randomised mechanics and are designed for larger groups.

> >

> > Im not a fan of bounties, they dont really fit very well and i hate the random element.. However, gw2 is designed for you to change from melee to ranged or even your build on the fly. So whilst these things can be a pain, the onus is on you and the group to adjust.

> >

> > This is no different from things like vinetooth where you must change your build for one fight so you are appropriately set up. Bounties are set up for you to adjust rather than walk in unprepared, so yes you def need to change up and adjust against such an opponent. I play a sword weaver, but id never go in without my sceptre equipped in a fight clearly designed for ranged.

> >

> > There is no QA issue here

>

> There actually is one, but its's not tied to the djinns specifically but to the specific random bounty mechanics. Some of them just don't work well when coupled with boss-specific mechanics. Or maybe the opposite - they work way _too_ well, making kiling the boss a really aggravating process.

>

> Especially high movement coupled with the exploiter, phase-shifted or signaler instabilities.

 

Survivor is probably worse in some cases. At least with with the 3 you mentioned you can save your skills until right after a phase/signal change or getting the exploiter buff. As far as I can tell survivor is just random blocks.

[Zunki.3916]

Just don't do it. If every mob is the same target dummy then things get boring. The world feels more natural and fun when things can surprise you. It's not that you lose anything if you die, so why bother?

[phs.6089]

> @"Dark.1823" said:

> This is ridiculous. Why are Champion Djinn stronger than some Legendary world bosses? These things are on a whole new level of PITA and are not fun to fight at all. With the constant zooming around and deadly attacks, the Djinn are some of the most overpowered bosses in PoF. Who thought it'd be a great idea to make these move around constantly? They're absolutely the worst enemies in the game for melee builds. Their movement needs to be nerfed. Add a 5-10 sec cooldown to their movement. I shouldn't be forced into changing my build for one fight and most certainly shouldn't need a 15+ person squad for a "Champion" Djinn. Where was QA during PoF development?

 

Have you ever consider on why in 'Slayer' achievements you only need to 'bottle' 100 djiins? Unlike any other mobs kill that require 1000.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > There actually is one, but its's not tied to the djinns specifically but to the specific random bounty mechanics. Some of them just don't work well when coupled with boss-specific mechanics. Or maybe the opposite - they work way _too_ well, making kiling the boss a really aggravating process.

> >

> > Especially high movement coupled with the exploiter, phase-shifted or signaler instabilities.

>

> Survivor is probably worse in some cases. At least with with the 3 you mentioned you can save your skills until right after a phase/signal change or getting the exploiter buff. As far as I can tell survivor is just random blocks.

Try to get exploiter buff on jackalope, that doesn't stop moving (faster than any player can) until _after_ you've cc'd it (with cc not working if you don't have the buff yet).

Same (although to a lesser degree) with phase-shifted and rapid movement - by the moment you press the key, the boss would have already moved and you might easily nd up outside the designated area.

[Biff.5312]

I don't understand the complaint, really. Should there be nothing tougher to beat than a champion unless it's legendary? If they make up a new category, would that satisfy? If you know it's harder to beat than a regular champ, don't approach it like a regular champ. But to suggest the game simply shouldn't have any difficult content seems like an over-reaction.

[cyradil.7309]

Since I'm still quite new in gw2... can you explain why you need to change your entire build because one fight? Me and my boyfriend made once a djinn duo and i just switched with my thief to pistols without changing my entire build... and guess what... we made it.. even without changing my build...

[Dark.1823]

> @"Biff.5312" said:

> I don't understand the complaint, really. Should there be nothing tougher to beat than a champion unless it's legendary? If they make up a new category, would that satisfy? If you know it's harder to beat than a regular champ, don't approach it like a regular champ. But to suggest the game simply shouldn't have any difficult content seems like an over-reaction.

 

In PoF, some Champs & Legendaries have a phase-shift ability where you need to stand in a designated area(blue circle). The effects of these areas are different for each boss. Some will freeze you if you don't stand in the area, others will cause you to miss with your attacks. Anyway so this blue circle is basically attached and follows the boss around and since Djinn move around too fast, it can be very difficult to stay in the circle. My suggestion is to limit the Djinn's movement so that the phase-shift can be utilized effectively.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Biff.5312" said:

> I don't understand the complaint, really. Should there be nothing tougher to beat than a champion unless it's legendary? If they make up a new category, would that satisfy? If you know it's harder to beat than a regular champ, don't approach it like a regular champ. But to suggest the game simply shouldn't have any difficult content seems like an over-reaction.

 

That reminds me. Several of the champion bounties are actually tougher than many of the legendary bounties.