Salvage Kits Can't Extract Runes Anymore? This is Stupid.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"Healix.5819" said:

> > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > > > This sounds legit....

> > > >

> > > > I was just really unlucky. You get get 4 chances per month and I remember getting them more often than not because I didn't want them wasting space, and have no need to convert them to gold.

> > >

> > > You probably had a ton of them from before login rewards were introduced (they were much easier to obtain then). Login rewards produce around 1 BLK per 2-3 months on average.

> > >

> > > I had a ton of those before login rewards as well. I practically stopped getting new ones after that change, though.

> >

> > Remind me how did we get them before login rewards?

> > Seems like my old age is catching up to me.

>

> Map completion. (Historically)

> Black Lion Chests was a common drop. (Historically)

>

> Achievement Chests. This is still a source.

>

> I’m not seeing the issue still. You’re (general) not going to salvage to keep more Runes/Sigil as the favourable ones haven’t really changed. Neither has acquiring Black Lion Kits.

Most of the runes on the market didn't come from salvaging with BLKs.

And personally, for me the ratio i obtain BLKs at is lower than the ratio at which i obtain gear with runes worth keeping. Significantly lower. The only reason why i can still manage is because i gathered a lot of them in the early days of the game. Someone that started playing later would not have that advantage.

 

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > @"Healix.5819" said:

> > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > > > > This sounds legit....

> > > > >

> > > > > I was just really unlucky. You get get 4 chances per month and I remember getting them more often than not because I didn't want them wasting space, and have no need to convert them to gold.

> > > >

> > > > You probably had a ton of them from before login rewards were introduced (they were much easier to obtain then). Login rewards produce around 1 BLK per 2-3 months on average.

> > > >

> > > > I had a ton of those before login rewards as well. I practically stopped getting new ones after that change, though.

> > >

> > > Remind me how did we get them before login rewards?

> > > Seems like my old age is catching up to me.

> >

> > Map completion. (Historically)

> > Black Lion Chests was a common drop. (Historically)

> >

> > Achievement Chests. This is still a source.

> >

> > I’m not seeing the issue still. You’re (general) not going to salvage to keep more Runes/Sigil as the favourable ones haven’t really changed. Neither has acquiring Black Lion Kits.

> Most of the runes on the market didn't come from salvaging with BLKs.

> And personally, for me the ratio i obtain BLKs at is lower than the ratio at which i obtain gear with runes worth keeping. Significantly lower. The only reason why i can still manage is because i gathered a lot of them in the early days of the game. Someone that started playing later would not have that advantage.

>

 

Exactly this.

Yes we can still loot gear with our favourite runes, if RNGesus is shining down on us, but until then we have to pray really, really hard and lay multiple offerings down in the hope we can salvage enough say Symbols of Control in ordr to make those runes we want for our shiny new ascended or legendary gears. Otherwise its about relying on others and paying the new premiums to get them and then hope other material costs don't fall fowl of the effect either, which of course they will. Not everyone plays the game just to buy everything off the TP or want to play credit card wars just to gear up with 6 or 7 runes each time there is a nerf or a fix to a problem that was never actually there.

All ANET had to do was offer the opportunity to salvage runes, there was zero need to monetise this, 3/4 of the runes will still be un used, but instead of being vendor trash they will simply linger of the TP. This was simply another steer to microtransactions, nothing more.

[Psientist.6437]

I support the new system, Tyria would have been better if it had this system at release. I don't want to focus on the benefits except for one in particular; developers can use upgrades in collections without feeling creepy.

 

Some players are going to experience the transition as a kick to the shin. A player unaware of the transition, themselves transitioning from exotic gear to ascended, may experience the new system as a kick to the groin. Perhaps release notes posted online isn't enough. Most players will experience salvaging as a casual routine. Perhaps an ingame mail alert would have been appropriate.

 

Making BL salvage kits tradeable would reinforce the market narrative and relieve tension between players and the studio.

 

 

 

 

 

[Despond.2174]

Did anyone else think it was going to be you can salvage the actual runes but you still get them out of the weapons? Wouldn't that be the best compromise and solve the issue of bag space etc? So you have let's say, 60 items of greens-rares you want to mass salvage. You salvage all, get all your mats and useless runes, then you salvage the runes - OR you can just keep the runes like before if you choose. Or is it just me? I am sure they can change it so it's the actual sigils/runes that you can salvage separately for mats; this would satisfy both sides of the fence with just keeping 1 extra click only, 1 extra salvage to not have them clog up your inventory but not remove the ability to have them separate.

[Ana.2415]

> @"Despond.2174" said:

> Did anyone else think it was going to be you can salvage the actual runes but you still get them out of the weapons? Wouldn't that be the best compromise and solve the issue of bag space etc? So you have let's say, 60 items of greens-rares you want to mass salvage. You salvage all, get all your mats and useless runes, then you salvage the runes - OR you can just keep the runes like before if you choose. Or is it just me? I am sure they can change it so it's the actual sigils/runes that you can salvage separately for mats; this would satisfy both sides of the fence with just keeping 1 extra click only, 1 extra salvage to not have them clog up your inventory but not remove the ability to have them separate.

 

That's what I thought since the start until I noticed I wasn't getting any sigil or rune anymore. I wish I could choose to keep them and do whatever I want with them if I don't want to salvage them directly. As I said in other post, the best solution would be to add and option to salvave kits "Salvage and extract" so we still have the chance to get them and decide what we want to do with them, sell, keep, use them in the MF, etc...

[X T D.6458]

Not a fan of the autosalvage change, they need to fix this and increase the droprate of charms and symbols. The new recipes are far more expensive than the actual items.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Despond.2174" said:

> Did anyone else think it was going to be you can salvage the actual runes but you still get them out of the weapons? Wouldn't that be the best compromise and solve the issue of bag space etc? So you have let's say, 60 items of greens-rares you want to mass salvage. You salvage all, get all your mats and useless runes, then you salvage the runes - OR you can just keep the runes like before if you choose. Or is it just me? I am sure they can change it so it's the actual sigils/runes that you can salvage separately for mats; this would satisfy both sides of the fence with just keeping 1 extra click only, 1 extra salvage to not have them clog up your inventory but not remove the ability to have them separate.

 

Of course it's possible, they already had that system in place previous. The sigil/runes became an item on its own once salvaged and could be bought/ sold, toilet flushed into something else or reinserted elsewhere it just required an update to make them salvageable into mats, which we know is possible because as of a week ago it was added.

Why didn't they do this, why didn't they make this clear prior to the update.. simple - because microtransactions. This patch had it's own reasons for coming into the game not because of some supposed issue with inventory clogging, it was to generate a ground level microtransaction opportunity.

Salvage kits never needed to be altered in fact look at the kit wording still, it's still says you can salvage upgrades, but that is now restricted to BLSK's... unless the rng from salvaging from other kits has been downtuned incredibly low like a 1 in a 10,000 chance even for a green level rune.

They couldn't even balance the extractor costs for statuettes with the new gem store price, why because it allows for burning off of statuettes players have stockpiled. 1 extractor costs 3 statuettes which is 3 BLchests compared to 3 for 250 gems.. so you either buy more chests and perhaps chance a lucky bonus statuette drop (if you consider that a lucky drop of course) instead of something more desirable or burn through your existing statuettes.

Which ever way this update is presented there is a distinct air of microtransaction push to it not inventory reduction. At worst it might of meant an extra charge of a salvage kit each time you wanted to clear a rune out. Those same mats could still of been utilised to craft different runes/sigils at a cost if so needed... then again looking at a few of the recipes (without even considering the stupidly low drop rate of the symbols/charms) it is simply just as crazy as the sigil of nullification malarkey last time out.. namely items like Freshwater Pearls, Maguma Lilies and a crowd favourite Azurite Orb, yeah good luck getting the numbers necessary without paying premium prices when the initial stocks run low, then again I haven't even bothered to check the TP for those items since the patch knowing how hard they already were to get hold of.

Anyhow, it's done now we either adjust to it and hope any future patches don't result in the need to re-spec over and over or we embrace this new direction. At the end of the day it comes down to individual choices of how they prefer to "SPEND" their time playing the game or whether there are other options out there more worthy nowadays.

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> Why didn't they do this, why didn't they make this clear prior to the update.. simple - because microtransactions.

That's some serious conspiracy theory you are presenting here.

 

Why not instead go with the far more likely theory that ANet introduced the new system because they (and a lot of players) were dissatisfied with the old system? When you compare both systems, the new one really is much more streamlined, intuitive, and fair than the old one.

 

It used to be that we had a lot of different ways runes and sigils were brought into the game. Some you could craft. Some you had to extract from drops (and hope for the right drops in the first place). Some you had to buy for map currency. To get the runes and sigils you wanted, most people had to turn to ultimately turn to the trading post, unless they were extremely lucky to drop the matching equipment or get them out of random forging at the time they wanted them. Additionally, the "all or nothing" approach lead to a few desireable runes and sigils being valuable, while most others were barely above vendor price, if at all. The difference of dropping a blue piece of equipment or dropping a similar green one was mostly 16 copper (vendor value of the green upgrade).

 

The new system works on crafting as the main avenue to getting runes and sigils. You no longer drop them outright, but rather gain crafting materials from salvaging, as such spreading out the value across a bunch of people that contribute their upgrade crafting materials to the economy. Opting out of the upgrade crafting system is only possible for the few people owning an endless upgrade extractor or using a blsk or one-time extractor. All of these are disproportionally expensive for most runes and sigils, so they will only be used very rarely.

 

Effectively the new system will increase the value of masterwork and higher equipment (that can drop upgrade crafting components when salvaged) and spread the worth of runes and sigils more evenly across the playerbase. It'll average out once people wrap their minds around how the new system works and start trading their upgrade crafting materials like they trade wood, leather, or fine materials already. The new system is easier to understand for new people, since the source of (almost) all upgrades is now crafting and trading, and a lot of "useless junk" type drops (all of the upgrades that used to be at or near vendor value) will actually gain in value.

 

Microtransactions really play a minor part in this. If you compare the cost of a black lion salvage kit or an upgrade extractor to the value of the most expensive upgrades on the trading post, it's still much cheaper to buy new upgrades with in-game gold than spend said gold on gems to buy an extractor. The same goes for the unlimited upgrad extractor. Like most other stuff, opting out of the in-game crafting and trading system via gemstore is still a convenience thing with the new system and in no way economical.

 

If ANet had wanted to force microtransactions, they'd designed the system so that it's effectively cheaper to extract upgrades than to craft them. They haven't, which makes me seriously doubt that microtransactions were their motivation for redesigning the new system.

[Psientist.6437]

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > Why didn't they do this, why didn't they make this clear prior to the update.. simple - because microtransactions.

> That's some serious conspiracy theory you are presenting here.

>

> Why not instead go with the far more likely theory that ANet introduced the new system because they (and a lot of players) were dissatisfied with the old system? When you compare both systems, the new one really is much more streamlined, intuitive, and fair than the old one.

>

> It used to be that we had a lot of different ways runes and sigils were brought into the game. Some you could craft. Some you had to extract from drops (and hope for the right drops in the first place). Some you had to buy for map currency. To get the runes and sigils you wanted, most people had to turn to ultimately turn to the trading post, unless they were extremely lucky to drop the matching equipment or get them out of random forging at the time they wanted them. Additionally, the "all or nothing" approach lead to a few desireable runes and sigils being valuable, while most others were barely above vendor price, if at all. The difference of dropping a blue piece of equipment or dropping a similar green one was mostly 16 copper (vendor value of the green upgrade).

>

> The new system works on crafting as the main avenue to getting runes and sigils. You no longer drop them outright, but rather gain crafting materials from salvaging, as such spreading out the value across a bunch of people that contribute their upgrade crafting materials to the economy. Opting out of the upgrade crafting system is only possible for the few people owning an endless upgrade extractor or using a blsk or one-time extractor. All of these are disproportionally expensive for most runes and sigils, so they will only be used very rarely.

>

> Effectively the new system will increase the value of masterwork and higher equipment (that can drop upgrade crafting components when salvaged) and spread the worth of runes and sigils more evenly across the playerbase. It'll average out once people wrap their minds around how the new system works and start trading their upgrade crafting materials like they trade wood, leather, or fine materials already. The new system is easier to understand for new people, since the source of (almost) all upgrades is now crafting and trading, and a lot of "useless junk" type drops (all of the upgrades that used to be at or near vendor value) will actually gain in value.

>

> Microtransactions really play a minor part in this. If you compare the cost of a black lion salvage kit or an upgrade extractor to the value of the most expensive upgrades on the trading post, it's still much cheaper to buy new upgrades with in-game gold than spend said gold on gems to buy an extractor. The same goes for the unlimited upgrad extractor. Like most other stuff, opting out of the in-game crafting and trading system via gemstore is still a convenience thing with the new system and in no way economical.

>

> If ANet had wanted to force microtransactions, they'd designed the system so that it's effectively cheaper to extract upgrades than to craft them. They haven't, which makes me seriously doubt that microtransactions were their motivation for redesigning the new system.

 

I broadly agree with you, except on calling talk of microtransactions a conspiracy theory. With this new system, the only way to preserve an upgrade is to use a cash shop product. We can appreciate all the benefits the new system has on the production of upgrades and also appreciate the intense focus the new system places on the cash shop.

 

The tension created by the options, make a new upgrade or spend gems, is where we find the studio's personality.

 

edit: More accurately, it is where we find part of the studio's personality. How the studio manages the tension created by microtransactions is an important part of their personality but still just a part.

[migx.1320]

> @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> @OP, did you even bother looking up the Superior Rune of the Scholar? The recipe to craft it is discoverable, which costs nothing, and the ingredients are:

>

> 8 lucent crystal

> 5 ecto

> 5 elaborate totems

> 2 charm of brilliance

>

> Surely you have the middle two ingredients? Keep salvaging and you'll get the new ingredients, I do already. So in essence, I could make these runes for free.

>

> Things change. Adapt.

 

The recipe to craft before the update was discoverable, too. Every Tailor profession with lvl 400+ could do that.

The ingredients were:

 

1x Bolt of Gossamer

1x Elaborate Totem

1x Charged Lodestone

 

If my arithmetic skills doesn't fail me, the old recipe should be cheaper.

Also, unlike Charm of Brilliance, which one needs to be lucky to acquire this material outside of the TP; with the Charged Lodestone, I have definite ways to get it 100%.

 

So I'm sorry, but I don't get your point.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > > > @"Zohane.7208" said:

> > > > > > @"Tatwi.3562" said:

> > > > > > 1. It's clearly a change that was made expressly to drain gold from players in the hopes they will buy gems with real money.

> > > > >

> > > > > This change is one of the absolutely most requested one by forum people, so I would guess Anet made it because it was actually asked for.

> > > > > > 2. I bought the game in 2012. I bought the two expansions. I purchased gems twice. If that's not enough for ArenaNet, too bad for them! Just going and changing the game in the hopes to squeeze more money from people like who play extremely casually is going to have only one result: I won't buy anything from you again.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Stop making the game worse just to pressure people to buy gems. I can't believe how many times this has happened over the years....

> > > > >

> > > > > I have to say I don't feel pressured at all - I'm a casual player (by my own definition), and I very very rarely feel the need to get special runes or sigils. I'm just happy playing the game. If something nice comes my way I'll use a Black Lion kit - but that only ever happens very rarely.

> > > > > If anything, it's the Heavy farmers who might feel the change since they probably don't have enough kits for the loot they get.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I do not believe this is what the forums asked for.. then again let us not forget of course the forums at best are nothing more than a minor trickle of the playerbase even if it were.

> > > > This is just another effort to shift the game further towards microtransactions nothing more.

> > > > If you wanted to gear up some ascended armour previous it was much quicker to do so and a lot cheaper. Now you either have to pray for RNGesus to smile down on you a lot or buy inflated rune prices or symbol prices.. this is just the next step on from the starved supply from the nullification bullcrap… The poster back then who laughed at the notion that the last update was a steer to wards such transaction that would then lead to BLSK's becoming a target, as well as extractors.. well now you have all the proof necessary, this is just another push to gem store transactions.

> > > > This change is in no way an improvement, its a case of ANET fixing something that was not broken to start with but now offers a more lucrative microtransaction strategy across a broad base of the game. There was simply no reason to alter the way salvage kits worked, if you wanted the option to crunch the runes then there were far easier ways or at worst just allow the same kits to salvage runes at will once in the inventory.. placing ridiculous drop rates on the symbols is just the same push the nullification sigil utilised to push harder to use the TP and hope the mats and symbols become entrenched at much higher prices to warrant gemsales…

> > > > TBH this more forced push to microtransactional requirements is a worrying sign to me, I've seen it before and it smells bad, which is a shame as I have supported Guild Wars since early GW1

> > >

> > > The problem is that, while some, including yourself, apparently, will feel "forced" into microtransactions, others won't feel the sting at all. For myself, I will buy things like bank space, and character slots, I am a self professed altaholic, and those are things I have to have in order to maintain that. I won't be spending a lot of gems on extractors, and if I ever thought I had to, I could focus entirely on changing my gold to gems, and never have to spend any money. I'm not in a big rush, so if it takes me a while, it takes me a while, I can stall a toon at a specific point and work others until I get what I need, or, I can work other aspects that I may not be caught up on, and since I'm relatively new, that's a lot of stuff to do until I feel "forced" to buy anything, that I haven't already listed, anyway.

> >

> > Oh I have more than enough gold in this game to do the same, but its not about just ourselves .. new players now will have an even tougher time gearing etc.

> > Then again if we all just eat through our gold everytime something gets added or "fixed" in game then we have to spend that much more time trying to replace it.. which is why this game is all about farming and microtransactions these days and to me its a bad sign.. like I said in the nullification thread.. perhaps this is the shape of things to come. What will be micro transitioned next I wonder??

>

> >

>

> Erm, it's easier for new players to gear now. The whole scaremongering about new players gearing has always been that, since I have helped numerous players get started with gear and none of really impacts my budget gearing methods.

>

> Plenty of cheap exotics on the TP now and gold was harder to get back then. You don't need superior runes to get started. I mean, I was doing Orr in green gear when I was still keyboard turning before it was made easier with crystals in armor. People will do fine.

>

> I always find it funny we always go on about "muh new players" (not you in particular) in subjects about high end runes and ascended armor/expansion stats when that stuff isn't even necessary in content out of raids/high fractals. And if people were playing that, a couple of gold should not be a problem either. In reality, we're not really even talking about casual or new players, but rather players with hardcore expectations, yet don't play like one. That will just lead to failure. And frankly, I've never heard of anyone needing to actually buy gems because they needed gold. Except one guy that was buying primers because he could.

 

Funny, because before Superior sigils and runes never were high end. This changed a bit now, so i dont see how backlash is really funny, and I find it really just expected.

 

I personally will miss the functionality of salvaging my runes and sigils out too. Ofcourse, they still don't cost that much, but it is one QoL in and another one out. *shrug* I dont see it as an improvement, just changing it to be less inventory taxing and more taxing on gearing your characters. Then again I always found that lacking in GW2, so I never really bothered anyway, then I guess this just solidifies it for me not bothering much with gearing my characters optimally. (and I will just raid with less optimal runes if they are too much money or effort)

[Odinens.5920]

Ok, I'm gonna go ahead and vent here. First, I like that we can now salvage, and learn to make previously unavailable, runes and sigils. That was a QoL update that nobody complained about. I would also like to point out that I have not played any other game since I began playing this about 20 months ago, and have logged almost 5k hours playing, and have spent plenty of money in the gem store supporting the game and its development. However, this recent change has left a sour taste in my mouth and I'll tell you why -

 

1 - mat drop rates - the drop rates for the high end mats are abysmal, and outright laughable. Not everybody needs a gold sink in this game. I rarely have more than 100 gold on me because I PLAY the game, I don't farm it to make gold. Farming is not playing to me, that's working. Fix the drop rates. At the rate I get the high end mats it'll take me months to have enough to make 1 rune set for armor. That's unacceptable.

 

2 - salvage kits - I don't know if it was intentional, but I can tell you that the tooltips on salvage kits are flat out incorrect now. I have salvaged no less than a couple thousand pieces of gear (armor & weapons) since the change and can tell you that I have not received ONE SINGLE RUNE or SIGIL from salvaging. To a lot of people this is not a big deal, HOWEVER, because they no longer do what they say they are supposed to do people are forced to buy extraction tools from the gem store to get a rune or sigil out of armor or weapons that they want to hold on to. Not having a way to acquire extraction tools in game ON TOP OF salvage kits not doing what they are supposed to do is teetering on that gray line of shady business practices.....something I never thought I'd say about Anet.

 

Do I like the salvage option for runes and sigils? Yes, yes I do. Do I like the fact that I can no longer get runes/sigils from gear with salvage kits? No, it's a pretty questionable business decision by Anet, if indeed it's intentional. Overall I am not happy with the changes, and with all the other controversy going on in the gaming industry lately I really hope all these changes were not intentional. Either way we need to know.

[Anchoku.8142]

I used to gamble major runes and sigils in the toilet for a chance at account bound runes while claiming the daily forger reward. Now, I will be gambling rare armor and weapons. It is less efficient but, whatever, for the good of the economy.

[Spook.5847]

> @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> @OP, did you even bother looking up the Superior Rune of the Scholar? The recipe to craft it is discoverable, which costs nothing, and the ingredients are:

>

> 8 lucent crystal

> 5 ecto

> 5 elaborate totems

> 2 charm of brilliance

>

> Surely you have the middle two ingredients? Keep salvaging and you'll get the new ingredients, I do already. So in essence, I could make these runes for free.

>

> Things change. Adapt.

 

Change for the sake of change, or to perpetuate a scam, is never welcome. Think Microsoft.

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"Spook.5847" said:

> > @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > @OP, did you even bother looking up the Superior Rune of the Scholar? The recipe to craft it is discoverable, which costs nothing, and the ingredients are:

> >

> > 8 lucent crystal

> > 5 ecto

> > 5 elaborate totems

> > 2 charm of brilliance

> >

> > Surely you have the middle two ingredients? Keep salvaging and you'll get the new ingredients, I do already. So in essence, I could make these runes for free.

> >

> > Things change. Adapt.

>

> Change for the sake of change, or to perpetuate a scam, is never welcome. Think Microsoft.

Good thing this was neither, but instead a long-needed overhaul of a clunky system that just didn't fit in with the rest of the game.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > @"Spook.5847" said:

> > > @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > > @OP, did you even bother looking up the Superior Rune of the Scholar? The recipe to craft it is discoverable, which costs nothing, and the ingredients are:

> > >

> > > 8 lucent crystal

> > > 5 ecto

> > > 5 elaborate totems

> > > 2 charm of brilliance

> > >

> > > Surely you have the middle two ingredients? Keep salvaging and you'll get the new ingredients, I do already. So in essence, I could make these runes for free.

> > >

> > > Things change. Adapt.

> >

> > Change for the sake of change, or to perpetuate a scam, is never welcome. Think Microsoft.

> Good thing this was neither, but instead a long-needed overhaul of a clunky system that just didn't fit in with the rest of the game.

You're saying that the current system is any less clunky and fits the game better?

 

Seriously, in order to get a rune from gear, you salvage the gear, get crafting mats, and _then_ use them to craft the rune you've just salvaged (or pay real money for extractor). If that's not clunky and nonintuitive then i don't know what is.

 

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > > @"Spook.5847" said:

> > > > @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > > > @OP, did you even bother looking up the Superior Rune of the Scholar? The recipe to craft it is discoverable, which costs nothing, and the ingredients are:

> > > >

> > > > 8 lucent crystal

> > > > 5 ecto

> > > > 5 elaborate totems

> > > > 2 charm of brilliance

> > > >

> > > > Surely you have the middle two ingredients? Keep salvaging and you'll get the new ingredients, I do already. So in essence, I could make these runes for free.

> > > >

> > > > Things change. Adapt.

> > >

> > > Change for the sake of change, or to perpetuate a scam, is never welcome. Think Microsoft.

> > Good thing this was neither, but instead a long-needed overhaul of a clunky system that just didn't fit in with the rest of the game.

> You're saying that the current system is any less clunky and fits the game better?

>

> Seriously, in order to get a rune from gear, you salvage the gear, get crafting mats, and _then_ use them to craft the rune you've just salvaged (or pay real money for extractor). If that's not clunky and nonintuitive then i don't know what is.

>

 

...This...

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > @"Spook.5847" said:

> > > @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > > @OP, did you even bother looking up the Superior Rune of the Scholar? The recipe to craft it is discoverable, which costs nothing, and the ingredients are:

> > >

> > > 8 lucent crystal

> > > 5 ecto

> > > 5 elaborate totems

> > > 2 charm of brilliance

> > >

> > > Surely you have the middle two ingredients? Keep salvaging and you'll get the new ingredients, I do already. So in essence, I could make these runes for free.

> > >

> > > Things change. Adapt.

> >

> > Change for the sake of change, or to perpetuate a scam, is never welcome. Think Microsoft.

> Good thing this was neither, but instead a long-needed overhaul of a clunky system that just didn't fit in with the rest of the game.

Superior Rune of the Scholar on the trading post:

Pre-Patch cost: 2g

Current cost: 8g

 

Please elaborate on how increasing the cost of purchasing the rune 4x now allows it to "fit in with the rest of the game"

[sorudo.9054]

just dropping this here.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Salvage

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"migx.1320" said:

> > @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > @OP, did you even bother looking up the Superior Rune of the Scholar? The recipe to craft it is discoverable, which costs nothing, and the ingredients are:

> >

> > 8 lucent crystal

> > 5 ecto

> > 5 elaborate totems

> > 2 charm of brilliance

> >

> > Surely you have the middle two ingredients? Keep salvaging and you'll get the new ingredients, I do already. So in essence, I could make these runes for free.

> >

> > Things change. Adapt.

>

> The recipe to craft before the update was discoverable, too. Every Tailor profession with lvl 400+ could do that.

> The ingredients were:

>

> 1x Bolt of Gossamer

> 1x Elaborate Totem

> 1x Charged Lodestone

>

> If my arithmetic skills doesn't fail me, the old recipe should be cheaper.

> Also, unlike Charm of Brilliance, which one needs to be lucky to acquire this material outside of the TP; with the Charged Lodestone, I have definite ways to get it 100%.

>

> So I'm sorry, but I don't get your point.

 

You won't because he doesn't have a point. He doesn't know what he is talking about, yet he persists in defending the change. Maybe a flow chart or some graphic would make it easier for some people to get why these changes were more harmful than beneficial.

 

At the end of the day, outfitting new gear with 6x runes or 4x sigils now costs exponentially more than it did a few months ago. Because..reasons...

 

Whereas some people could craft the items themselves, now they have to buy the mats off the TP because they aren't lucky with their salvage.

Whereas some people would opt to pay a steep price for the most popular runes, often 1-2g each, they can now enjoy paying upwards of 5g for those same upgrades. Rune of the Scholar is now at 8g. We went from paying 12g to set up a new set of armor to now having to pay 64g for the same thing. Yeah, major improvement there... :rolleyes:

 

Can't help but wonder if ANET didn't hire some ex-Blizzard employees to work on this revamp.

 

 

[mtpelion.4562]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > > @"Spook.5847" said:

> > > > @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > > > @OP, did you even bother looking up the Superior Rune of the Scholar? The recipe to craft it is discoverable, which costs nothing, and the ingredients are:

> > > >

> > > > 8 lucent crystal

> > > > 5 ecto

> > > > 5 elaborate totems

> > > > 2 charm of brilliance

> > > >

> > > > Surely you have the middle two ingredients? Keep salvaging and you'll get the new ingredients, I do already. So in essence, I could make these runes for free.

> > > >

> > > > Things change. Adapt.

> > >

> > > Change for the sake of change, or to perpetuate a scam, is never welcome. Think Microsoft.

> > Good thing this was neither, but instead a long-needed overhaul of a clunky system that just didn't fit in with the rest of the game.

> Superior Rune of the Scholar on the trading post:

> Pre-Patch cost: 2g

> Current cost: 8g

>

> Please elaborate on how increasing the cost of purchasing the rune 4x now allows it to "fit in with the rest of the game"

 

The purpose wasn't to make the most demanded runes/sigils less expensive. It was, rather, to make the non-demanded runes/sigils not completely worthless while giving players the ability to craft nearly any rune/sigil if they so chose.

 

Prices right now still reflect the flux. As more time goes by, the number of crafting materials on the market will increase which will reduce the cost to acquire the most demanded runes/sigils.

[Spraxer.8461]

yeah i agree

[Dante.1763]

> @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > > > @"Spook.5847" said:

> > > > > @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > > > > @OP, did you even bother looking up the Superior Rune of the Scholar? The recipe to craft it is discoverable, which costs nothing, and the ingredients are:

> > > > >

> > > > > 8 lucent crystal

> > > > > 5 ecto

> > > > > 5 elaborate totems

> > > > > 2 charm of brilliance

> > > > >

> > > > > Surely you have the middle two ingredients? Keep salvaging and you'll get the new ingredients, I do already. So in essence, I could make these runes for free.

> > > > >

> > > > > Things change. Adapt.

> > > >

> > > > Change for the sake of change, or to perpetuate a scam, is never welcome. Think Microsoft.

> > > Good thing this was neither, but instead a long-needed overhaul of a clunky system that just didn't fit in with the rest of the game.

> > Superior Rune of the Scholar on the trading post:

> > Pre-Patch cost: 2g

> > Current cost: 8g

> >

> > Please elaborate on how increasing the cost of purchasing the rune 4x now allows it to "fit in with the rest of the game"

>

> The purpose wasn't to make the most demanded runes/sigils less expensive. It was, rather, to make the non-demanded runes/sigils not completely worthless while giving players the ability to craft nearly any rune/sigil if they so chose.

>

> Prices right now still reflect the flux. As more time goes by, the number of crafting materials on the market will increase which will reduce the cost to acquire the most demanded runes/sigils.

 

Thats what you assume the purpose was, they never state the purpose for these changes, but forcing players into the gemstore(which this does as you either need black lion kits or extractors) is a terrible change regardless of the original purpose for the change. Also alot of these runes prices *arent* going to drop, as the other mats required to make them will keep their prices up, and anet even made some already existing recipes more expensive with this patch.

 

Salvaging runes? great change glad they did it, should have been optional.

Not being able to pull runes off of items without resorting to gemstore items? terrible change, shows where anets mind is looking, not glad they did it.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> The purpose wasn't to make the most demanded runes/sigils less expensive. It was, rather, to make the non-demanded runes/sigils not completely worthless

Aside from some of the runes I've mentioned, most are still at around 10s. So mission successful? I would say no

 

 

> @"mtpelion.4562" said:

>while giving players the ability to craft nearly any rune/sigil if they so chose.

Yes, but at the same time they revamped ALL the recipes. Instead of allowing us to craft Sigil of Nullifcation with existing T5/T6 material, they created a brand new material, made it an RNG result from salvaging runes/sigils, and collectively screwed over everyone.

 

> @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> Prices right now still reflect the flux. As more time goes by, the number of crafting materials on the market will increase which will reduce the cost to acquire the most >demanded runes/sigils.

 

Neither of us know how long this will last. But, as has been stated above, Charged Lodestones were farmable so not reliant on RNG, and you could even upconvert them from lower tier materials, and yet the rune still sold for 2g because Charged Lodestones were sought after components for unique weapon skins and Legendary components. The cost of Lodestones has dropped a bit, but still remains close to what it was before the patch. Their cost was a direct reflection of demand, not supply.

 

Now we have an issue with Charm of Brilliance being high in demand and low in supply because they are only attainable via RNG. I salvage everything all the time, and I have only 3 in my storage, enough to make only 1 Rune.

 

So all this to say, unless they drastically improve the drop rate for these Charms, right now the Rune costs 4x more than it did a few months back, and while years down the road it may drop down to the same price as it did before, everyone in the meantime will be paying a lot more for absolutely no reason.

 

I have no shortage of gold, but stupid decisions are stupid, and I'll call them out because this was not an improvement for anyone. Now instead of some people worrying about the cost of getting 25 Sigils of Nullification for requiem armor, now everyone has to worry about spending 70g just to outfit a new armor set.

 

 

[mtpelion.4562]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > The purpose wasn't to make the most demanded runes/sigils less expensive. It was, rather, to make the non-demanded runes/sigils not completely worthless

> Aside from some of the runes I've mentioned, most are still at around 10s. So mission successful? I would say no

>

 

A rise to 10s represents an average of 8x increase for most runes/sigils, compared to only a 4x increase for the runes/sigils on the "most demanded" list.

This means that over time, all players' ability to get the best runes/sigils will have improved since the stuff we get is worth more now that it was in the past and in a higher ratio than the price increase for the things we wanted to get.

 

I.E. selling my junk now improves my buying power at twice the rate that the prices increased on the items I want to buy. Net win in the long run, we just need to wait until we are IN the long run to see the benefit.