Two major economy sinks GW2 is missing.

[paShadoWn.5723]

Namely, sacrifice to gods and dragon hoards.

For example there can be quests where we sacrifice useless otherwise jewelry on Six Gods altars.

And Aurene can have her personal hoard to lie upon where donations of rare items (useless for anything but salvage/skins) could be placed.

Rewards for these can be karma and unobtainable otherwise buffs.

[phs.6089]

I don't see how sacrificing useless items that you would trash could help economy . Rares are ectos, ectos are the oil of Tyria. ;)

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> I don't see how sacrificing useless items that you would trash could help economy . Rares are ectos, ectos are the oil of Tyria. ;)

 

Also not much of a sacrifice if it is useless.

[Tasty Pudding.3764]

Some people can't bear to delete anything. They need a glorified garbage can to put them in to get rid of useless things.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Tasty Pudding.3764" said:

> Some people can't bear to delete anything. They need a glorified garbage can to put them in to get rid of useless things.

 

Isnt that called hoarding

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"Tasty Pudding.3764" said:

> > Some people can't bear to delete anything. They need a glorified garbage can to put them in to get rid of useless things.

>

> Isnt that called hoarding

 

Hoarder won't get rid of anything regardless :p

[Skotlex.7580]

I wish there was something fun to do with karma, I have so much of that (since they added the karmic retribution to LS maps), and any current sinks for that are Hella boring.

 

Anything that would make jewel crafting as a discipline more in demand would probably be my top "must needed" sink, though. :P

[Incurve Giidis.7829]

Spirit shard sink thx.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> I wish there was something fun to do with karma,

what would be "fun" for you? Currently, you can use them to make legendaries, buy Wintersday Gifts, buy Pact Supply Network items (especially the consumable). There are a number of ways to convert karma to gold. And a number of achievements & fashion unlocks that require massive amounts of karma.

 

>

> Anything that would make jewel crafting as a discipline more in demand would probably be my top "must needed" sink, though. :P

ANet agrees, but just not enough to consider it a priority. (They acknowledged that painted themselves into a corner with the original methods for acquiring ascended trinkets.)

 

Given that they have tackled other "this will never happen" sorts of QoL aspects of the game, I'm less cynical about it these days. I increase my estimate from "a snowball's chance in hell" to "an ice cube's chance in boiling water."

[mauried.5608]

Economy sinks have to be non discressionary or very close too it , like the TP fees , and have to be something of value.

Giving away junk items isnt an economy sink.

A good economy sink that no MMOs will touch is item durability, which means that every time you have to repair an item the repair cost increases for that item, until the repair cost makes the item no longer cost effective to use , and you have to either get, buy or make another one.

No one of course will want this .

Its absurd to have items like weapons and armor that never wears out, and can be repaired back to new state over and over forever.

 

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"mauried.5608" said:

> A good economy sink that no MMOs will touch is item durability, which means that every time you have to repair an item the repair cost increases for that item, until the repair cost makes the item no longer cost effective to use , and you have to either get, buy or make another one.

Isn't that how BDO works?

[mauried.5608]

I havnt played that one so cant comment, but Ive not found this mechanism in any that I have played, WOW, Lotro, AION, Rift, Warhammer Online , Anarchy Online , none have this mechanism, which is sad, as it would greatly increase the size of the economy, and provide more incentive for people to make and sell things.

Obviously there would have to be some item durability stats so that Legendary Weapons would wear out at a very slow rate, Ascended a bit faster, Exotics even faster again etc.

 

 

[Lambent.6375]

Dark age of Camelot has it/had it.

 

There is two stats related to repairs, condition and durability.

 

The condition percentage reflected when you would need to get the item repaired. So an item will start at 100% condition, but will will drop over time. The lower the condition, the more expensive it will be to repair. After a certain number of repairs the items durability would begin to drop, after durability hits 0, the item can no longer be repaired. (I lied, there is a third stat that affects repairs, the higher an items quality, the longer it takes for the durability to drop)

 

There were some items that never dropped in durability, but they had higher repair cost. (Artifacts, epic armor/weapons, etc)

 

A lot of gear was comprised if these artifacts and epic armor, so we didn't have to worry too much about our items breaking. Except for ROG jewelery (random object generated) the stats on those items were unique, but they were also low quality, so they broke down fast.

 

 

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"mauried.5608" said:

> I havnt played that one so cant comment, but Ive not found this mechanism in any that I have played, WOW, Lotro, AION, Rift, Warhammer Online , Anarchy Online , none have this mechanism, which is sad, as it would greatly increase the size of the economy, and provide more incentive for people to make and sell things.

> Obviously there would have to be some item durability stats so that Legendary Weapons would wear out at a very slow rate, Ascended a bit faster, Exotics even faster again etc.

>

>

 

I hate it in single player games. It's realistic, but super annoying. It is an alternative form of gear grind: instead of gear becoming obsolete due to an expansion, it becomes obsolete because you play. Either way, it forces people to keep grinding.

 

I suppose that if ANet looked in this direction, they might be able to find a way to make it user-friendly. But so far, I think MMOs shy away for it because it's annoying to veterans.

[Skotlex.7580]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> > I wish there was something fun to do with karma,

> what would be "fun" for you? Currently, you can use them to make legendaries, buy Wintersday Gifts, buy Pact Supply Network items (especially the consumable). There are a number of ways to convert karma to gold. And a number of achievements & fashion unlocks that require massive amounts of karma.

 

I should probably look into those fashion unlocks that require tons of karma, pretty sure I haven't done those.

 

The "unfun" part is linked to things like hopping around vendors hoping something good shows up (like the psna), or tossing karma goods in the mystic forge.

 

I would toss more karma into random boxes, if I didn't have to buy then from a vendor one by one and the item had a "consume all" option. Pretty sure the latter is already available, but I dread the former, which is why I don't try it much.

 

Plus, I hear that converting karma to gold is generally wasteful, so that motivates me even less to do it (specially considering I already have hundreds of gold), thus something "else" would be much more valuable to me.

 

For example, if there were some karma box you could open that had a reasonable chance (not "bltc chest rare") to give you transmutation charges, my millions of karma would had vanished yesterday. :P

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> Plus, I hear that converting karma to gold is generally wasteful,

People who make statements like that aren't you. If you have a use for karma, all the sinks in the history of the game have been meh. If you have no use for karma, then any conversion is better than none.

 

The Orrian Jewelry Boxes can be bought stack at a time and opened 250 at a time, too. They are the baseline for karma to gold conversion and have been consistent at about 1-3 silver per 1000 karma for years. The advantage is that they are quick & easy and depend on ... nothing. Far superior to that _for karma_ are the trade caches available from vendors in the Crystal Desert, but those also require trade contracts, of which you might have other uses. Cowrie Leather is 25 silver per kiloKarma. [GW2 Efficiency](https://gw2efficiency.com/currencies/karma) has a larger list, but those are ... largely unrealistic values for most people, especially those who have millions of karma to convert.

 

If you like map completion, building Gen1 legendaries can be an excellent use of excess karma. Various festivals also have karma sinks, notably Wintersday allows you to buy up to 100 Gifts, at various levels of exchange, the worst of which is competitive with the OJB.

 

 

>

> For example, if there were some karma box you could open that had a reasonable chance (not "bltc chest rare") to give you transmutation charges, my millions of karma would had vanished yesterday. :P

 

You can imagine that this is partly why there is no such sink for karma.

[Skotlex.7580]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> > For example, if there were some karma box you could open that had a reasonable chance (not "bltc chest rare") to give you transmutation charges, my millions of karma would had vanished yesterday. :P

>

> You can imagine that this is partly why there is no such sink for karma.

 

Not really, I know that competitive players are drowning in transmutation charges, so it would make sense that karma, a mostly pve type of currency, could be used for an alternative for such players.

 

Though ANet has never stated why they insist to make charges much harder to acquire in pve than in the other modes. Perhaps they believe pve is where the casuals with money to spare are. Though only ANet knows, nobody I know in game buys those things from the store.

 

Though that's a topic for another thread :>

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> > > For example, if there were some karma box you could open that had a reasonable chance (not "bltc chest rare") to give you transmutation charges, my millions of karma would had vanished yesterday. :P

> >

> > You can imagine that this is partly why there is no such sink for karma.

>

> Not really,

Because marking gem store items available for karma would undermine whatever setup they already have. Whether we know their reasons or agree with them, it's not hard to imagine that they wouldn't just introduce an easy way to obtain stuff they use as an incentive to trade gems or even as consolation prizes for BL chests.

 

 

> I know that competitive players are drowning in transmutation charges, so it would make sense that karma, a mostly pve type of currency, could be used for an alternative for such players.

The reason _some_ players drown in them is that they all acquire them _in lieu_ of the other stuff that PvE players get and many don't need that many.

 

ANet looks at the collective amount of rewards; they can't possibly ensure that everyone in the game gets identical amounts of everything. Competitive players get two transmutes from most reward tracks, which amounts to 6 hours of effort in WvW (give or take), whereas PvE players can get two in 20 minutes (key toons doing the easier cities).

 

 

> Though ANet has never stated why they insist to make charges much harder to acquire in pve than in the other modes. Perhaps they believe pve is where the casuals with money to spare are.

It's not "harder" to obtain in PvE; you just have to go out of your way. In PvE, it's easier to obtain nearly anything else, without going out of one's way.

 

> nobody I know in game buys those things from the store.

We know that _some_ people buy them because people are complaining from time to time that it's too much. (I don't know anyone who buys them from the gem shop, but that goes for about 1/3 of the offerings in the shop, too.)

 

[Etterwyn.5263]

> @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> > > For example, if there were some karma box you could open that had a reasonable chance (not "bltc chest rare") to give you transmutation charges, my millions of karma would had vanished yesterday. :P

> >

> > You can imagine that this is partly why there is no such sink for karma.

>

> Not really, I know that competitive players are drowning in transmutation charges, so it would make sense that karma, a mostly pve type of currency, could be used for an alternative for such players.

>

> Though ANet has never stated why they insist to make charges much harder to acquire in pve than in the other modes. Perhaps they believe pve is where the casuals with money to spare are. Though only ANet knows, nobody I know in game buys those things from the store.

>

> Though that's a topic for another thread :>

 

You should take time to compare the rewards you get for an hour of WVW vs an hour of PVE. The gold-per-hour discrepancy is so huge that PVE players can farm enough gold in the same amount of time to buy more transmutes than WVW gives. Anything that can be bought from the gem store or TP, is more efficiently obtained through PVE.

 

Anyone can be "drowning" in transmutes... if they don't use them. Some folks just don't play Fashion Wars, and their charges build up.

[Trise.2865]

Isn't this literally what the Mystic Forge is for? "trashing" otherwise-useless items for a chance at better/rare/unique stuff?

[Randulf.7614]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"mauried.5608" said:

> > I havnt played that one so cant comment, but Ive not found this mechanism in any that I have played, WOW, Lotro, AION, Rift, Warhammer Online , Anarchy Online , none have this mechanism, which is sad, as it would greatly increase the size of the economy, and provide more incentive for people to make and sell things.

> > Obviously there would have to be some item durability stats so that Legendary Weapons would wear out at a very slow rate, Ascended a bit faster, Exotics even faster again etc.

> >

> >

>

> I hate it in single player games. It's realistic, but super annoying. It is an alternative form of gear grind: instead of gear becoming obsolete due to an expansion, it becomes obsolete because you play. Either way, it forces people to keep grinding.

>

> I suppose that if ANet looked in this direction, they might be able to find a way to make it user-friendly. But so far, I think MMOs shy away for it because it's annoying to veterans.

 

It would be a highly aggrevating system for so many of us that I can absolutely see why almost no mmo would touch the idea. Looking at single player games alone, Zelda Breath of the Wild uses weapon decay and destruction and it is probably the single most annoying feature in the franchise's history.

 

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > I don't see how sacrificing useless items that you would trash could help economy . Rares are ectos, ectos are the oil of Tyria. ;)

>

> Also not much of a sacrifice if it is useless.

 

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