thank god we have player that allow necromancer in end game content

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > But, aside from that, there is a reason people want necro .... and it's not DPS.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > which was nerfed last balance patch thx to sanctuary rune

> >

> > Irrelevant to the discussion. People team necros, and NOT because of their DPS. So if you keep fixating on playing a DPS necro in PUGs that want meta play, then the only person to blame for your experience is yourself. Here we go:

> >

> > This is a L2P issue.

>

> Mechanical issues related to ceilings of dps isn't a learn to play issue, but the person posting could have l2p issues if he cannot reach 30-31k who knows I don't, nor am I claiming so.

>

> I still think the nerf to grit is something that could be a issue, especially if you can no longer provide as much support with scourge with it due to the ICD.

>

> Mostly I do think necro is playable and should be fine for fractals.

 

The L2P issue in THIS thread is about how to team with a necro, not about how to reach it's DPS ceiling for raids. Even though the complaint points to Necro's DPS ceiling, the answer to the problem is how to learn to play necro for reasons that people value, not ones they don't.

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > But, aside from that, there is a reason people want necro .... and it's not DPS.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > which was nerfed last balance patch thx to sanctuary rune

>

> Irrelevant to the discussion. People team necros, and NOT because of their DPS. So if you keep fixating on playing a DPS necro in PUGs that want meta play, then the only person to blame for your experience is yourself. Here we go:

>

> This is a L2P issue.

 

you keep escaping the reality and that is pathetic

why necro not allow to have a dps role in PvE

and learn to respond with fact please or as i called it L2R

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > But, aside from that, there is a reason people want necro .... and it's not DPS.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > which was nerfed last balance patch thx to sanctuary rune

> > >

> > > Irrelevant to the discussion. People team necros, and NOT because of their DPS. So if you keep fixating on playing a DPS necro in PUGs that want meta play, then the only person to blame for your experience is yourself. Here we go:

> > >

> > > This is a L2P issue.

> >

> > Mechanical issues related to ceilings of dps isn't a learn to play issue, but the person posting could have l2p issues if he cannot reach 30-31k who knows I don't, nor am I claiming so.

> >

> > I still think the nerf to grit is something that could be a issue, especially if you can no longer provide as much support with scourge with it due to the ICD.

> >

> > Mostly I do think necro is playable and should be fine for fractals.

>

> The L2P issue in THIS thread is about how to team with a necro, not about how to reach it's DPS ceiling for raids. Even though the complaint points to Necro's DPS ceiling, the answer to the problem is how to learn to play necro for reasons that people value, not ones they don't.

 

i am the one who wrote the thread and its about necro dps dont change the post content because you want to ignore fact please learn how to respond correctly

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > > But, aside from that, there is a reason people want necro .... and it's not DPS.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > which was nerfed last balance patch thx to sanctuary rune

> > > >

> > > > Irrelevant to the discussion. People team necros, and NOT because of their DPS. So if you keep fixating on playing a DPS necro in PUGs that want meta play, then the only person to blame for your experience is yourself. Here we go:

> > > >

> > > > This is a L2P issue.

> > >

> > > Mechanical issues related to ceilings of dps isn't a learn to play issue, but the person posting could have l2p issues if he cannot reach 30-31k who knows I don't, nor am I claiming so.

> > >

> > > I still think the nerf to grit is something that could be a issue, especially if you can no longer provide as much support with scourge with it due to the ICD.

> > >

> > > Mostly I do think necro is playable and should be fine for fractals.

> >

> > The L2P issue in THIS thread is about how to team with a necro, not about how to reach it's DPS ceiling for raids. Even though the complaint points to Necro's DPS ceiling, the answer to the problem is how to learn to play necro for reasons that people value, not ones they don't.

>

> i am the one who wrote the thread and its about necro dps dont change the post content because you want to ignore fact please learn how to respond correctly

 

No one is changing the post content ... you're just lacking comprehension. No one here is arguing Necro doesn't have low DPS or saying that's not true. If you are going to continue a discussion with me, you better up your game in trying to understand what is being said.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

>

> Mechanical issues related to ceilings of dps isn't a learn to play issue, but the person posting could have l2p issues if he cannot reach 30-31k who knows I don't, nor am I claiming so.

>

> I still think the nerf to grit is something that could be a issue, especially if you can no longer provide as much support with scourge with it due to the ICD.

>

> Mostly I do think necro is playable and should be fine for fractals.

 

I think as a matter of course, in threads like these it's best to be able to separate L2P issues from a pure mechanics issue. That will help lead us to the most productive conversation. So for this thread, we are all pretty much in agreement about the DPS level of Necromancer. This particular thread is clearly a L2P issue as the OP could likely play if they took the advice given in this thread instead of fixating on DPS, which isn't going to be fixed anytime soon.

 

 

[Shadowmoon.7986]

New dps ranking are out, necro is doing 75% of the top dps class on the small golem. It is even trailing banner warrior by 10%, and that class provides unique buffs always used in the meta.

Dragonfury is 100% right on what necro can realistically provide. Epi on 1 boss, lone wolf dps on 1 boss, and very limited support roles. It is in a really bad spot. People putting their heads in the sand really are not helping.

My solutions.

Change augery of death. Make it give a damage multiplier after using a shout for a duration.

Change reapers onslaught quickness to double strikes like impossible odds.

Change decimate defences from crit chance to pure damage multipliers or both. 1% crit chance and 1% damage per vul.

[Obtena.7952]

Again, no one is debating here of the Necro DPS ranks; the numbers are the numbers. Being right about that is irrelevant.

 

The fact is that a PUG team LF DPS is not going to team a necro based on what it DOESN'T bring to the team. If people focus ONLY on what necro doesn't bring to the team and stubbornly insist on not learning how to play and get teams with a necro, then no one is surprised or sympathetic if those people can't get teams.

 

It's funny you accuse people of putting their heads in the sand. The fact is that we've pulled our heads out and figured out what people want when teaming with necros ... so the question is, when are YOU going to pull your head out?

 

 

[Sigfodr.9576]

Necro do no dps.... sometimes I wonder if the people on the necro forum who make the posts actually play the game :/

 

Again, may I surgest people take a look at the latest raid tournament. Surprise the goal of that tournament is to do the raids fast and there was alot of necros. Not in every fight and not all groups used them. But they did see alot of playtime and several times there was pure necro dps groups.

 

thats not all the games, but main part of them. I assume the rest also will be uploaded at some point.

[Farkon.2170]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Again, no one is debating here of the Necro DPS ranks; the numbers are the numbers. Being right about that is irrelevant.

>

> The fact is that a PUG team LF DPS is not going to team a necro based on what it DOESN'T bring to the team. If people focus ONLY on what necro doesn't bring to the team and stubbornly insist on not learning how to play and get teams with a necro, then no one is surprised or sympathetic if those people can't get teams.

>

>

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Again, no one is debating here of the Necro DPS ranks; the numbers are the numbers. Being right about that is irrelevant.

>

> The fact is that a PUG team LF DPS is not going to team a necro based on what it DOESN'T bring to the team. If people focus ONLY on what necro doesn't bring to the team and stubbornly insist on not learning how to play and get teams with a necro, then no one is surprised or sympathetic if those people can't get teams.

>

>

 

What do Reapers bring to the table? Maybe some last man standing potential and boon corruption? Other classes can bring that to the table. (Mesmer can rip boons so that's nothing unique about Reaper and any class can be built to be more bruiserish.)

 

 

Not too long ago you were asking about carry potential about Scourge, but, this is more about how Necros don't have a place for DPS and while Blood Magic is neat and all, a Druid can do so much more support/healing wise.

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Just wondering how much of a thing this is. Clearly, I don't adhere to the meta but then again, I haven't seen teams with much problem getting a second druid either. Is there utility for a necro carry outside of raids/T4's? Any value in WvW if the build is changed a bit? I'm actually INTO carrying people to learn, so for me, seems like a really good build to get people familiar and up to speed. Sure, druids heal more, etc ... but I don't like playing it.

 

[Dace.8173]

> @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> New dps ranking are out, necro is doing 75% of the top dps class on the small golem. It is even trailing banner warrior by 10%, and that class provides unique buffs always used in the meta.

> Dragonfury is 100% right on what necro can realistically provide. Epi on 1 boss, lone wolf dps on 1 boss, and very limited support roles. It is in a really bad spot. People putting their heads in the sand really are not helping.

> My solutions.

> Change augery of death. Make it give a damage multiplier after using a shout for a duration.

> Change reapers onslaught quickness to double strikes like impossible odds.

> Change decimate defences from crit chance to pure damage multipliers or both. 1% crit chance and 1% damage per vul.

 

No one is putting their head in the sand. Pretty much everyone in this conversation has acknowledged that Necromancer has lower DPS. To claim that people are putting their heads in the sand is to pretty much ignore every post that isn't Dragonfury's complaining. However, you have two choices, sit back and complain about DPS totals or learn how to find groups that will take you as a Necro player. Being as how this has been an ongoing issue for six years one would think that people would realize that complaining on the forums isn't actually solving any problems.

 

Also, again, DPS is only a slice of the picture. The tunnel vision focus on DPS prevents you from finding solutions that can work now, not reliant on ANET to buff something. The Necromancer forum is made up mostly of threads complaining about Necromancer. You can suggest changes to Augery of Death or Onslaught or anything else really and at the end of the day, nothing has changed for you. Or, you could actually listen to people who aren't myopically focused on DPS and actually find solutions that can work right now, without things being buffed.

 

It's up to you really, I'm playing what I want to play.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Farkon.2170" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Again, no one is debating here of the Necro DPS ranks; the numbers are the numbers. Being right about that is irrelevant.

> >

> > The fact is that a PUG team LF DPS is not going to team a necro based on what it DOESN'T bring to the team. If people focus ONLY on what necro doesn't bring to the team and stubbornly insist on not learning how to play and get teams with a necro, then no one is surprised or sympathetic if those people can't get teams.

> >

> >

>

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Again, no one is debating here of the Necro DPS ranks; the numbers are the numbers. Being right about that is irrelevant.

> >

> > The fact is that a PUG team LF DPS is not going to team a necro based on what it DOESN'T bring to the team. If people focus ONLY on what necro doesn't bring to the team and stubbornly insist on not learning how to play and get teams with a necro, then no one is surprised or sympathetic if those people can't get teams.

> >

> >

>

> What do Reapers bring to the table? Maybe some last man standing potential and boon corruption? Other classes can bring that to the table. (Mesmer can rip boons so that's nothing unique about Reaper and any class can be built to be more bruiserish.)

>

I dunno, I don't play reaper in PVE raids .... but be assured, if I WANTED to play Reaper, I could.

>

> Not too long ago you were asking about carry potential about Scourge, but, this is more about how Necros don't have a place for DPS and while Blood Magic is neat and all, a Druid can do so much more support/healing wise.

>

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Just wondering how much of a thing this is. Clearly, I don't adhere to the meta but then again, I haven't seen teams with much problem getting a second druid either. Is there utility for a necro carry outside of raids/T4's? Any value in WvW if the build is changed a bit? I'm actually INTO carrying people to learn, so for me, seems like a really good build to get people familiar and up to speed. Sure, druids heal more, etc ... but I don't like playing it.

>

... and? I don't get your point. The fact that I have learned how to play how I want even though another class 'does it better' is just MORE evidence that favours my argument; people need to learn to play if they want to play how they want. Not being the best is not a barrier to people who know how to play.

 

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

>Being as how this has been an ongoing issue for six years one would think that people would realize that complaining on the forums isn't actually solving any problems.

 

unless you're an ele and complain you've lost your top dps spot to a thief after holding it for years. How long did it take anet to "fix" ele after [this](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/51752/concerns-about-elementalist#latest "this")?

 

>Also, again, DPS is only a slice of the picture. The tunnel vision focus on DPS prevents you from finding solutions that can work now, not reliant on ANET to buff something. The Necromancer forum is made up mostly of threads complaining about Necromancer. You can suggest changes to Augery of Death or Onslaught or anything else really and at the end of the day, nothing has changed for you. Or, you could actually listen to people who aren't myopically focused on DPS and actually find solutions that can work right now, without things being buffed.

 

such as......

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Sigfodr.9576" said:

> Necro do no dps.... sometimes I wonder if the people on the necro forum who make the posts actually play the game :/

>

> Again, may I surgest people take a look at the latest raid tournament. Surprise the goal of that tournament is to do the raids fast and there was alot of necros. Not in every fight and not all groups used them. But they did see alot of playtime and several times there was pure necro dps groups.

>

>

> thats not all the games, but main part of them. I assume the rest also will be uploaded at some point.

 

same answer i gave you a couple of pages behind

"and what a nice video necro only been used for epi bouncing which was nerfed and only effective in limited times

and anet consider epi bounce as an exploit they tried to destroy it last balance patch but ended up just nerfing epi by 50% (bounce by 75%)"

because some ele main complained [about it](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/36834/epidemic-in-raids-needs-to-be-nerfed/p1 "about it")

[DragonFury.6243]

 

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> I wouldn't call it questionable as they were honest about the logic, it was an immediate hot fix.

you know what is the more logical fix will be how about disabling the newly changed and clearly untested rune set instead of nerfing a trait that was fine form the day it was released but nerfing necro is the trend

> I think Elite specs will likely give the options needed to be competitive at the level that PUGs want. I like the way it allows for changing the Core profession without removing the things that people have come to love and may not see as problematic. After all, there are people who feel there is nothing wrong with Necromancer and would be upset if it was radically changed to make a bunch of "whiners on the forums" happy.

 

yea exactly just wait for 2 more years and you will maybe join pug group without being insta kicked

but dont hold your breaths we all thought that POF will give use that but scourge keep getting nerfed in pve for stupid reasons like pvp (although we have some thing called skill split ) epi nerf ( some ele main where unhappy ) Abrasive Grit ( just for fun lets introduce something that will make scourge broken then nerf scourge again ).

[Sigfodr.9576]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> same answer i gave you a couple of pages behind

> "and what a nice video necro only been used for epi bouncing which was nerfed and only effective in limited times

> and anet consider epi bounce as an exploit they tried to destroy it last balance patch but ended up just nerfing epi by 50% (bounce by 75%)"

> because some ele main complained [about it](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/36834/epidemic-in-raids-needs-to-be-nerfed/p1 "about it")

 

You sir need to look at the dates ;) This raid tournament is from AFTER the epi nerf you are talking about. That said, yes, the strong suit of necros is epi. But thats hardly news and neither is it that you only get the true power from epi unless you coordinate with your group. Personally I dont see that as a downside though, I think raids need to be about squad coordination.

 

And min. 25% of the necros used was not even dps, but supports. Now I am sure you will complain about the recent nerf to "abrasive grit" but the might/condi cleanse is not the reason you bring a support necro in raids, so the nerf is irrelevant here.

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Sigfodr.9576" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > same answer i gave you a couple of pages behind

> > "and what a nice video necro only been used for epi bouncing which was nerfed and only effective in limited times

> > and anet consider epi bounce as an exploit they tried to destroy it last balance patch but ended up just nerfing epi by 50% (bounce by 75%)"

> > because some ele main complained [about it](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/36834/epidemic-in-raids-needs-to-be-nerfed/p1 "about it")

>

> You sir need to look at the dates ;) This raid tournament is from AFTER the epi nerf you are talking about. That said, yes, the strong suit of necros is epi. But thats hardly news and neither is it that you only get the true power from epi unless you coordinate with your group. Personally I dont see that as a downside though, I think raids need to be about squad coordination.

 

how about the part where anet think that epi bouncing is not how epi is designed to function and after seeing this i am not surprised if anet go after epi again

>

> And min. 25% of the necros used was not even dps, but supports. Now I am sure you will complain about the recent nerf to "abrasive grit" but the might/condi cleanse is not the reason you bring a support necro in raids, so the nerf is irrelevant here.

for what then rez bot you dont need that if you know the raid

only good use for support necro in VG over heal barrier is good and qadim kite healer and you dont even need that if you have good kiter

it was in fact good in bosses when insta condi cleanse was needed like sloth and desmina but not now after the nerf you are better with any thing else

[Axl.8924]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > But, aside from that, there is a reason people want necro .... and it's not DPS.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > which was nerfed last balance patch thx to sanctuary rune

> >

> > Irrelevant to the discussion. People team necros, and NOT because of their DPS. So if you keep fixating on playing a DPS necro in PUGs that want meta play, then the only person to blame for your experience is yourself. Here we go:

> >

> > This is a L2P issue.

>

> you keep escaping the reality and that is pathetic

> why necro not allow to have a dps role in PvE

> and learn to respond with fact please or as i called it L2R

 

Well fractals is pve, so you have a role, its also pretty easy to do.

 

Its not like you are excluded from fractals too, unless you are very bad and die often.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> >Being as how this has been an ongoing issue for six years one would think that people would realize that complaining on the forums isn't actually solving any problems.

>

> unless you're an ele and complain you've lost your top dps spot to a thief after holding it for years. How long did it take anet to "fix" ele after [this](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/51752/concerns-about-elementalist#latest "this")?

>

> >Also, again, DPS is only a slice of the picture. The tunnel vision focus on DPS prevents you from finding solutions that can work now, not reliant on ANET to buff something. The Necromancer forum is made up mostly of threads complaining about Necromancer. You can suggest changes to Augery of Death or Onslaught or anything else really and at the end of the day, nothing has changed for you. Or, you could actually listen to people who aren't myopically focused on DPS and actually find solutions that can work right now, without things being buffed.

>

> such as......

 

Well, Elementalist players are still complaining. Your point would be valid if they were getting what they wanted but they are actually complaining. About this very subject. Right now. I can link you the threads if you want so you can read the ongoing conversation yourself. So at present, all you've done is reinforce what I have already stated, that complaining on the forums doesn't always net you the same results.

 

Also, your situation is not exactly the same as theirs. Necromancer has DPS problems but can still do content. Their issue is that no one wants them on their teams in PUGs and the excuse of DPS is used. Elementalist is underpowered and actually can't perform. Necromancer, in the very least, can soak up more damage comparative to what Elementalist can soak up. So their issue isn't as artificially created as the Necromancer situation.

 

All of which is sad because despite all the complaining I see on the forum I find it trivially easy to find folks to do stuff with if I wanted to run a Necromancer through a raid. However, because there is such a strict focus on DPS the other solutions that Necromancer players could make use of aren't being fully explored or utilized. I don't main Necromancer but when I want to I have no issue dusting off my Necromancer and using him in group content. Why? Because I don't let things like DPS hold me back and I develop the social network and ties that would allow me to play whatever I want to.

 

As a matter of fact, the leader of one my guilds mains Necromancer and he does all the content he wants in the game alongside the rest of the guild. It can be done. People have given their testimonial. Videos have been shown. Despite anything anyone says to help other people do the same thing that myself and others seem to be able to do the only retort that is given is "It has low DPS." So, it may have low DPS but I can take my Reaper into a raid if I want. I have no issue finding folks in my guild who will do ranked PvP content with me when I want to play my Necromancer.

 

The choice is yours, complain on the forums and miss out or do something more productive that lets you do what you want to do. It's not an impossible thing. Difficult for some, to be sure, but not an impossible thing. There are folks who do not care about overall DPS level and focus more on having fun with their friends and let everyone enjoy what they enjoy most out of the game.

 

I get to play what I want to play in the content I want to play. If you don't then that is more on you than just DPS mechanics.

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > But, aside from that, there is a reason people want necro .... and it's not DPS.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > which was nerfed last balance patch thx to sanctuary rune

> > >

> > > Irrelevant to the discussion. People team necros, and NOT because of their DPS. So if you keep fixating on playing a DPS necro in PUGs that want meta play, then the only person to blame for your experience is yourself. Here we go:

> > >

> > > This is a L2P issue.

> >

> > you keep escaping the reality and that is pathetic

> > why necro not allow to have a dps role in PvE

> > and learn to respond with fact please or as i called it L2R

>

> Well fractals is pve, so you have a role, its also pretty easy to do.

>

> Its not like you are excluded from fractals too, unless you are very bad and die often.

 

who care about fractal

fractal are easy even core necro can do it but when come to raid and fractal CM here when you get insta kicked

what i mean by saying PvE i mean end game content who care about open world or dungeon any build can do that

but when you try to do raid you have to change from necro to any other profession or what the raid community call it L2P any profession but necro

so in the end it is a L2P issue as in learn to play other profession it solve 100% all necro problems

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > >Being as how this has been an ongoing issue for six years one would think that people would realize that complaining on the forums isn't actually solving any problems.

> >

> > unless you're an ele and complain you've lost your top dps spot to a thief after holding it for years. How long did it take anet to "fix" ele after [this](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/51752/concerns-about-elementalist#latest "this")?

> >

> > >Also, again, DPS is only a slice of the picture. The tunnel vision focus on DPS prevents you from finding solutions that can work now, not reliant on ANET to buff something. The Necromancer forum is made up mostly of threads complaining about Necromancer. You can suggest changes to Augery of Death or Onslaught or anything else really and at the end of the day, nothing has changed for you. Or, you could actually listen to people who aren't myopically focused on DPS and actually find solutions that can work right now, without things being buffed.

> >

> > such as......

>

> Well, Elementalist players are still complaining. Your point would be valid if they were getting what they wanted but they are actually complaining. About this very subject. Right now. I can link you the threads if you want so you can read the ongoing conversation yourself. So at present, all you've done is reinforce what I have already stated, that complaining on the forums doesn't always net you the same results.

>

> Also, your situation is not exactly the same as theirs. Necromancer has DPS problems but can still do content. Their issue is that no one wants them on their teams in PUGs and the excuse of DPS is used. Elementalist is underpowered and actually can't perform. Necromancer, in the very least, can soak up more damage comparative to what Elementalist can soak up. So their issue isn't as artificially created as the Necromancer situation.

 

really you compare necro which have 28k to 30k dps to ele which have 36k to 37k dps

and excuses like soak up damage is a true L2P issue because if you know the raid and mechanic and position yourself correctly your chances to get hit almost to none

 

> The choice is yours, complain on the forums and miss out or do something more productive that lets you do what you want to do. It's not an impossible thing. Difficult for some, to be sure, but not an impossible thing. There are folks who do not care about overall DPS level and focus more on having fun with their friends and let everyone enjoy what they enjoy most out of the game.

 

that true the choice is to change to holo or ele and that will solve the necro problem

 

 

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Farkon.2170" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Again, no one is debating here of the Necro DPS ranks; the numbers are the numbers. Being right about that is irrelevant.

> > >

> > > The fact is that a PUG team LF DPS is not going to team a necro based on what it DOESN'T bring to the team. If people focus ONLY on what necro doesn't bring to the team and stubbornly insist on not learning how to play and get teams with a necro, then no one is surprised or sympathetic if those people can't get teams.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Again, no one is debating here of the Necro DPS ranks; the numbers are the numbers. Being right about that is irrelevant.

> > >

> > > The fact is that a PUG team LF DPS is not going to team a necro based on what it DOESN'T bring to the team. If people focus ONLY on what necro doesn't bring to the team and stubbornly insist on not learning how to play and get teams with a necro, then no one is surprised or sympathetic if those people can't get teams.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > What do Reapers bring to the table? Maybe some last man standing potential and boon corruption? Other classes can bring that to the table. (Mesmer can rip boons so that's nothing unique about Reaper and any class can be built to be more bruiserish.)

> >

> I dunno, I don't play reaper in PVE raids .... but be assured, if I WANTED to play Reaper, I could.

you really have a very strong opinion for someone who dont play the profession

> ... and? I don't get your point. The fact that I have learned how to play how I want even though another class 'does it better' is just MORE evidence that favours my argument; people need to learn to play if they want to play how they want. Not being the best is not a barrier to people who know how to play.

>

its a L2P issue how about you learn to play necro for a start then come here on the forum and tell the necro main its a L2P issue

[Axl.8924]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > >Being as how this has been an ongoing issue for six years one would think that people would realize that complaining on the forums isn't actually solving any problems.

> > >

> > > unless you're an ele and complain you've lost your top dps spot to a thief after holding it for years. How long did it take anet to "fix" ele after [this](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/51752/concerns-about-elementalist#latest "this")?

> > >

> > > >Also, again, DPS is only a slice of the picture. The tunnel vision focus on DPS prevents you from finding solutions that can work now, not reliant on ANET to buff something. The Necromancer forum is made up mostly of threads complaining about Necromancer. You can suggest changes to Augery of Death or Onslaught or anything else really and at the end of the day, nothing has changed for you. Or, you could actually listen to people who aren't myopically focused on DPS and actually find solutions that can work right now, without things being buffed.

> > >

> > > such as......

> >

> > Well, Elementalist players are still complaining. Your point would be valid if they were getting what they wanted but they are actually complaining. About this very subject. Right now. I can link you the threads if you want so you can read the ongoing conversation yourself. So at present, all you've done is reinforce what I have already stated, that complaining on the forums doesn't always net you the same results.

> >

> > Also, your situation is not exactly the same as theirs. Necromancer has DPS problems but can still do content. Their issue is that no one wants them on their teams in PUGs and the excuse of DPS is used. Elementalist is underpowered and actually can't perform. Necromancer, in the very least, can soak up more damage comparative to what Elementalist can soak up. So their issue isn't as artificially created as the Necromancer situation.

>

> really you compare necro which have 28k to 30k dps to ele which have 36k to 37k dps

> and excuses like soak up damage is a true L2P issue because if you know the raid and mechanic and position yourself correctly your chances to get hit almost to none

>

> > The choice is yours, complain on the forums and miss out or do something more productive that lets you do what you want to do. It's not an impossible thing. Difficult for some, to be sure, but not an impossible thing. There are folks who do not care about overall DPS level and focus more on having fun with their friends and let everyone enjoy what they enjoy most out of the game.

>

> that true the choice is to change to holo or ele and that will solve the necro problem

>

>

 

Eles have their issues too. I guess its true what they say, the grass is always greener on the other side.

 

Have you played ele? they have their own issues as well, such as survivability. Eles are now on the forum complaining that if they go towards healing, they are locked out of dps for a long time, and they are forced to do so because of low hp and needing to survive longer, and they have issues with surviving in spvp due to the low hp, and having trouble landing hits.

 

I wont say necros don't have their issues, but eles and necromancers are completely different in play style.Eles have loads of abilities to heal itself, and add boons, but are very squishy.

 

 

 

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Except every major patch power reaper has been getting pve dps buffs since pof release. Anet is trying to push reaper to a competitive power dps class in pve, they just suck at it. This is due to lack of damage multipliers (notice last patch we got another damage multiplier) and lackluster utilities (top dps specs use 3 minions that auto attack and a signet that never is proced). These are problems that needs to be addressed.

So what roles are left? Healing? Druid has that cover, boons? Chrono. Giimicks, yeah we have plenty of those until they are nerfed into the ground.

And before calling me out for just complaining and not playing the game, come meet me in game and show me your cm titles. I got mine, do you have yours?

[Agrippa Oculus.3726]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > >Being as how this has been an ongoing issue for six years one would think that people would realize that complaining on the forums isn't actually solving any problems.

> >

> > unless you're an ele and complain you've lost your top dps spot to a thief after holding it for years. How long did it take anet to "fix" ele after [this](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/51752/concerns-about-elementalist#latest "this")?

> >

> > >Also, again, DPS is only a slice of the picture. The tunnel vision focus on DPS prevents you from finding solutions that can work now, not reliant on ANET to buff something. The Necromancer forum is made up mostly of threads complaining about Necromancer. You can suggest changes to Augery of Death or Onslaught or anything else really and at the end of the day, nothing has changed for you. Or, you could actually listen to people who aren't myopically focused on DPS and actually find solutions that can work right now, without things being buffed.

> >

> > such as......

>

> Well, Elementalist players are still complaining. Your point would be valid if they were getting what they wanted but they are actually complaining. About this very subject. Right now. I can link you the threads if you want so you can read the ongoing conversation yourself. So at present, all you've done is reinforce what I have already stated, that complaining on the forums doesn't always net you the same results.

>

> Also, your situation is not exactly the same as theirs. Necromancer has DPS problems but can still do content. Their issue is that no one wants them on their teams in PUGs and the excuse of DPS is used. Elementalist is underpowered and actually can't perform. Necromancer, in the very least, can soak up more damage comparative to what Elementalist can soak up. So their issue isn't as artificially created as the Necromancer situation.

 

I've never heard of such a WRONG statement before!

You know who is literally (proven by actual numbers) THE best capable healer in the game? With the best HPS in the game ... literally! I'm not even going to answer it, look it up and you'll find it.

Next to that it is still the 2nd best DPS profession in the game almost only a few percent behind thief. And it's arguably THE best cleave in the game!

If something comes close to real artificial bullcrap that they're not even capable to perform anymore, it's exactly these kind of complaints from the Ele community. And I know, cause there are still loads of Eles in my statics that are easily capable of doing CM's/Raids/T4 etc. and will **ALWAYS** outdps _any_ Necro out there!

But back to the healing capabilities of the Ele (Tempest): if Teapot is going to post a really smooth no shrooms Sloth video with 2 healing tempests (he already did with only healing tempests (10), but that takes incredibly long, as you can imagine :) ), and starts with: "forget about the thinking man Scourge, GOD really exists and it will appear before your own eyes in the form of a .... Tempest": everyone is going to play Healing Tempest, all of the sudden. If something is _really_ an L2P issue, it's that of the Ele.

And that they're not allowed to play with PUGs is another bs story, they're in the PvE endgame together with Mesmer and Warrior greeted with open arms still, up to the point they actually _have_ to perform (starting the raid/fractal), in where you will find that these 6 years of absolute DPS dominance have attracted quite a few genuinely bad Ele players out there. Whereas the usual Necro player has to socialize their way into the raids/CMs, with their fair share of received kicks _before_ the CM/Raid even starts, and then really **have** to be good, because all eyes are on them. Bad DPS: kick; Lacking CC: kick; Not fast enough: kick; Smells: kick, etc.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

No point trying to give your opinions on someone who won't budge on an opinion they have already made and won't acknowledge that there wrong