no more fun playing a deadeye

[kash.9213]

> @"geist.4126" said:

> > @"Riko.9214" said:

>

> > Now not just DE but most of thief specs are useless at the enemy side, there are few completely stealthless but it is dead meat once more than 1 guy jumps on them as they have no invuln/block/boon-spam as other roaming specs. So most people play other classes or just left.

>

> I think that is a very good thing. There is still enough thieves out there. The good ones adapted and the fotm rerollers that used that braindead builds are gone. Win/Win.

 

So not only DE but you need a full class delete as a handicap?

[geist.4126]

What? What?

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"XECOR.2814" said:

> > @"Klypto.1703" said:

> > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > And this shows how much the broken stealth mechanic carried Deadeyes and thieves. You can still abuse stealth, just stay away from semtries and towers with the watchtower buff. But saying "its no more fun" equals to "i am a really bad player who relied on a broken thing"

> >

> > So basically any core mechanic of class is considered broken in your view.

>

> Stealth mechanic of thief was broken. Yes. Now that it has some counterplay in wvw thieves are salty and basically cant play anymore. Thief still has highest mobility and ports. People need to literally git gud in this case.

 

I agree that people need to "GIT GUD"...

 

Stealth hasn't been an issue for 6 years, thieves have had plenty of counters for 6 years too but lazy players who don't want to learn like everyone else did, insist that it's broken and needs to be fixed... Then when they do it, they say "thief just needs to git gud"....

 

I'm a Tempest player... Probably have it harder than most other kits out there and yet I never really had an issue tracking mini pets in stealth or cleaving to see procs from sigils and what not, little bit of guesstimation work too... A few simple little tricks that is simply too hard now days for what ever reason.

 

If I was fighting one of those thieves that stacked an insane amount of stealth, you know what I do? I walk away.... Thief misses out on a kill, a fight and fun.

 

 

(best part is: We're not done yet... As more new players step into WvW and get owned by this, the more it will get nerfed)

[HazyDaisy.4107]

I like to think of the upsides.

 

1) New thing to buy for big spender. Seriously, am I the only one with a stack of supply disablers I'll never use?

 

2) We did ask for stuff to spend our BOH on...

 

3) Everyone is leery abut what's around that corner, not just DEs and that is exactly what is "intended" in this mode.

[Klypto.1703]

> @"HazyDaisy.4107" said:

> I like to think of the upsides.

>

> 1) New thing to buy for big spender. Seriously, am I the only one with a stack of supply disablers I'll never use?

>

> 2) We did ask for stuff to spend our BOH on...

>

> 3) Everyone is leery abut what's around that corner, not just DEs and that is exactly what is "intended" in this mode.

 

You've obviously never played tic tac toe wvw style before. All 3 sides meet up and build siege and throw disablers until someone gets 3 x's in a row. Also there is flame ram wars each side builds a line of rams and everyone who isn't on a ram stands in the middle and you see who can run past all of the enemy rams without moving out of the line of rams.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"HazyDaisy.4107" said:

> I like to think of the upsides.

>

> 1) New thing to buy for big spender. Seriously, am I the only one with a stack of supply disablers I'll never use?

>

> 2) We did ask for stuff to spend our BOH on...

>

 

There's a profit made in selling several types of superior siege

 

[geist.4126]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

 

> Stealth hasn't been an issue for 6 years, thieves have had plenty of counters for 6 years too but lazy players who don't want to learn like everyone else did, insist that it's broken and needs to be fixed... Then when they do it, they say "thief just needs to git gud"....

 

It has been an issue for years now. Remember ghost thieves? Why do you think so many people ran thieves instead of other classes? With some exceptions there was never a true counterplay to stealth. That's why PU mesmer or D/P thieves were always top roaming builds.

What counters do you know besides the completely useless stealth traps of the time before "marked!"? The few revealed skills in the game which had low rang and could be dodged?

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"geist.4126" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

>

> > Stealth hasn't been an issue for 6 years, thieves have had plenty of counters for 6 years too but lazy players who don't want to learn like everyone else did, insist that it's broken and needs to be fixed... Then when they do it, they say "thief just needs to git gud"....

>

> It has been an issue for years now. Remember ghost thieves? Why do you think so many people ran thieves instead of other classes? With some exceptions there was never a true counterplay to stealth. That's why PU mesmer or D/P thieves were always top roaming builds.

> What counters do you know besides the completely useless stealth traps of the time before "marked!"? The few revealed skills in the game which had low rang and could be dodged?

 

Call me old school but sometimes its as simple as using proc sigils or an auto attack rotation to see when it cycles over..

[megilandil.7506]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"geist.4126" said:

> > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> >

> > > Stealth hasn't been an issue for 6 years, thieves have had plenty of counters for 6 years too but lazy players who don't want to learn like everyone else did, insist that it's broken and needs to be fixed... Then when they do it, they say "thief just needs to git gud"....

> >

> > It has been an issue for years now. Remember ghost thieves? Why do you think so many people ran thieves instead of other classes? With some exceptions there was never a true counterplay to stealth. That's why PU mesmer or D/P thieves were always top roaming builds.

> > What counters do you know besides the completely useless stealth traps of the time before "marked!"? The few revealed skills in the game which had low rang and could be dodged?

>

> Call me old school but sometimes its as simple as using proc sigils or an auto attack rotation to see when it cycles over..

 

in other words: luck finding where the stealthet character goes

[geist.4126]

Yeah, who needs skill, when you can hit stuff with pure luck! And not all classes have the option to "auto attack" in directions to hit something stealthed.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"megilandil.7506" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > @"geist.4126" said:

> > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > >

> > > > Stealth hasn't been an issue for 6 years, thieves have had plenty of counters for 6 years too but lazy players who don't want to learn like everyone else did, insist that it's broken and needs to be fixed... Then when they do it, they say "thief just needs to git gud"....

> > >

> > > It has been an issue for years now. Remember ghost thieves? Why do you think so many people ran thieves instead of other classes? With some exceptions there was never a true counterplay to stealth. That's why PU mesmer or D/P thieves were always top roaming builds.

> > > What counters do you know besides the completely useless stealth traps of the time before "marked!"? The few revealed skills in the game which had low rang and could be dodged?

> >

> > Call me old school but sometimes its as simple as using proc sigils or an auto attack rotation to see when it cycles over..

>

> in other words: luck finding where the stealthet character goes

 

Luck? Lmao

 

Yea id call it luck if you got a fish brain and instantly forgot where the thief was last spotted

 

Dropping all your AoE and cleave onto SR or BP or even just standing in the BP to disrupt the thief stealth or kill him is pure luck mate... Pure luck.... sorry cant even type that with a strait face.

 

Thief for the most part is a class designed to stomp newbs, its had that many nerfs because zergers cant comprehand that thier builds cant and wont keep up with a duelist.. The class is designed to roam.

 

So the question remains... if zergers cant handle duelists and insists that the playstyle cant and wont fit into WvW, what suggestions would you offer to make thief a viable zerger?

 

[geist.4126]

Of course it's luck. The moment he enters stealth, he has, four directions and 360° to go and most of your "AoE" will based on probality hit nothing. Especially with DE having the option to dodge roll to stealth or shadowstep away from you. Your chance of hitting him, when blindly throwing your AoE on a position you think there he could be. What AoE does your class have that helps you in that case? I can see the use of blindly cleaving around you on some melee classes or on reaper, but that's still luck. If he dodged in a completely other direction you hit thin air a lot. Even if you hit him, you won't kill him in one hit (exceptions to the rule) and he can reset the fight.

 

 

 

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"geist.4126" said:

> Of course it's luck. The moment he enters stealth, he has, four directions and 360° to go and most of your "AoE" will based on probality hit nothing. Especially with DE having the option to dodge roll to stealth or shadowstep away from you. Your chance of hitting him, when blindly throwing your AoE on a position you think there he could be. What AoE does your class have that helps you in that case? I can see the use of blindly cleaving around you on some melee classes or on reaper, but that's still luck. If he dodged in a completely other direction you hit thin air a lot. Even if you hit him, you won't kill him in one hit (exceptions to the rule) and he can reset the fight.

>

>

>

 

some Aoe will proc your sigils and using AoE in SR/BP is a no brainer to most... You have been given plenty of tips on how to deal with one but you've ignored them all.

 

Thief is a newb stomper

Thief stomps zerglings even harder because they dont have a duelist build.

Zergling nerfs thief to a point that any competent player can swat away like a fly

zergling says fly is still OP

 

 

I get it, it must be hard for a brand new player to enter WvW and get wrecked by this.. It was hard for all of us at first I bet, but players who played from the start worked out ways to deal with it, the mentality that Anet needs to hold our hands and that WvW should be a glorified karma train is something that only came about roughly 2 years ago.

[geist.4126]

Repeating the same shit over and over again doesn't make it right. As said before not all classes have these options. But I understand you are not interested in a discussion about this topic and try to turn it down to a l2p issue. Sadly, you fail with that and try to go on a personal level. I already said that in another thief thread a while ago. Everyone, even me, could master that cheesy playstyle from thieves in one day and win 90% of the fights in borderlands on NA and EU without big experience on playing thief except for some weeks in spvp season 2.

 

 

 

 

 

[MUDse.7623]

> @"geist.4126" said:

> **Repeating the same kitten over and over again doesn't make it right**.

correct, but that also true for the kitten you repeat.

> @"geist.4126" said:

>As said before not all classes have these options. But I understand you are not interested in a discussion about this topic and try to turn it down to a l2p issue. Sadly, you fail with that and try to go on a personal level. I already said that in another thief thread a while ago. Everyone, even me, could master that cheesy playstyle from thieves in one day and win 90% of the fights in borderlands on NA and EU without big experience on playing thief except for some weeks in spvp season 2.

you can repeat all day that fights need to balanced in WvW or that every profession needs options to fill every role, but that doesnt make this true. balanced fights are highly inefficient in WvW as they would stall for too long.

the reason a thief will win most fights is because the first thing every thief learns is how to avoid fights. other professios are not as good at avoiding fights as thieves are, so their k/d will usually be lower. k/d doesnt really matter for scoring, what matters is (k-d)/2hours, so killing fast is more important than surviving. wich means a bad thief can have a good k/d and still be bad for his team.

[Spartacus.3192]

> @"Shinjiko.1352" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > And this shows how much the broken stealth mechanic carried Deadeyes and thieves. You can still abuse stealth, just stay away from semtries and towers with the watchtower buff. But saying "its no more fun" equals to "i am a really bad player who relied on a broken thing"

>

> You can't claim it's broken when it's literally so heavily baked into the thief line that a lot of traits revolve around it in different lines. It's not thieve's faults Anet designed the class to use this mechanic. They have tried to steer towards perma evade instead of stealth as the safety net since thieves are squishy in any form and lack the invulns of other classes. But again everyone complained and calls it cheese and broken. So they moved away from evades with PoF and back to stealth.

>

> You can't take everything away from the class just because you hate fighting it. If anything mesmers abuse evades and stealth much more in my opinion while having the extra blocks and invulns other classes have on top.

>

> You can't expect to have classes like Mesmer with all this or Warriors and Guards with blocks and invulns for days with super high damage. No trade off. Then proceed to tell the paper bag that is thief hp to "get gud" "stop using cheese" just because you can't catch them. They need something too. Perma stealth is not healthy in the slightest nor is perma evades. But you have to give them something to compete or else they just become F tier.

 

Please don't bring up guardian blocks into this topic. Guardians are supposed to have low HP because they have blocks but then ANET gave everyone UNBLOCKABLE skills up the wazooo. So forgive me if i don't shed a tear that ANET is "removing" some of your core mechanic. They already set a precedent with unblockables.