The level of toxicity in high end content & unwelcoming guilds

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> There is always the other side of the coin.

>

> Did you kitten up a Mechanic or Bad Dps?

>

> (Most) people are toxic for a reason.

Yes. And that reason has a lot to do with themselves, not with the players they are being toxic towards.

 

You can easily tell someone you're dissatisfied with their performance without being toxic. If you decide to be a kitten instead, it's all on you.

 

[Noha.3749]

idk im not an elitist nor do i play much "high end" content. Just slowly climbing in t3 fracs, done a few t4s without problems with non-meta builds. even done some raiding with both non-meta and meta builds without problems (allthough its only a few runs this far). And ive NEVER had much issues with toxicity in this game during my years of playtime. Sure there are some butthurt fellas here and there, but nothing extraordinary or worse than just some standard saltyness. Just go in with a smile, stay friendly and fun for your fellow players to be around and things wont be an issue.

 

What goes around comes around kinda.

[Nahemah.6795]

In all honesty it's probably a better idea to maybe approach a friend or guildie to vent rather than coming to the forums in an effort to drum up support to do... what exactly? Witch-hunting is frowned upon by both the GW2 forum AND reddit. If your post was genuinely about addressing an issue and not an overt way to try and shame a group of people after one, specific bad experience I could see the people in this thread taking it more seriously.

 

Realistically I don't see the situation, in the instance of this thread, getting better. People offered advice in the sense of reporting, ignoring, finding a stable group, etc and so far you've ignored it. I'd honestly just leave it, try to find a guild or a group who does the content you like with the attitude you like.

[Dibdabs.3410]

I never group and never will. I'll help someone as I pass by, but that's it for me. The game is much less hassle and more fun for me that way.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> You can easily tell someone you're dissatisfied with their performance without being toxic. If you decide to be a kitten instead, it's all on you.

>

 

This isn't true unfortunately due to how sensitive some people are. I remember that other thread when telling someone "hey man, your dps is too low" was considered both toxic and something to report. People making threads on the forums are really oversensitive and think that everything is toxic so "without being toxic" isn't an option for them, they see everything aimed at them as toxic.

[PuppyMischief.7584]

> @"Nahemah.6795" said:

> In all honesty it's probably a better idea to maybe approach a friend or guildie to vent rather than coming to the forums in an effort to drum up support to do... what exactly? Witch-hunting is frowned upon by both the GW2 forum AND reddit. If your post was genuinely about addressing an issue and not an overt way to try and shame a group of people after one, specific bad experience I could see the people in this thread taking it more seriously.

>

> Realistically I don't see the situation, in the instance of this thread, getting better. People offered advice in the sense of reporting, ignoring, finding a stable group, etc and so far you've ignored it. I'd honestly just leave it, try to find a guild or a group who does the content you like with the attitude you like.

 

It genuinely was about actual toxicity but you're probably right what goes around comes around. I'm not going to lose any sleep on it anymore I did block the person and thats all I can do.

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > You can easily tell someone you're dissatisfied with their performance without being toxic. If you decide to be a kitten instead, it's all on you.

> >

>

> This isn't true unfortunately due to how sensitive some people are. I remember that other thread when telling someone "hey man, your dps is too low" was considered both toxic and something to report.

Yes, i wouldn't call _that_ toxic. And that's apparently not the case discussed here. I seem to have heard something about someone calling OP names. And that _is_ definitely toxic behaviour in my book.

 

So, again, you can easily tell someone you're dissatisfied with their performance without being toxic. If you decide to be a kitten instead, it's all on you.

If you're overly sensitive however, it's also all on you, i'm afraid.

 

[Shikaru.7618]

Moderator Note: Removed quoted content, as it was inappropriate.

 

If his side is to be believed, sounds like a failure to communicate. If he said he was doing balls as chrono beforehand, a simple "no bs is doing it" would have been sufficient prior to encounter start. Throwing in names accomplishes nothing.

[Linken.6345]

Moderator Note: Removed quoted content, as it was inappropriate.

 

Well maybe you should have spoken up before the pull and say hey chrono dont do balls me the warrior will take care of it.

If you dident then you have no right to complain that s/he did what they said they would do and dident fail it.

[Glider.5792]

Moderator Note: Removed quoted content, as it was inappropriate.

 

Chrono doing ball ?? Thank you, god.. this is how its properly done... If the group is top-notch(smart), its the chrono who does the balls, not the warrior.

Warrior has alot more dps and needs to do boonstrip (if no pain no gain) so others can do proper dps again, mesmer can easily just drop his wells and timewarp at the start and do ball afterwards, **there is no need for chrono to be on boss at all**.

Idk why pugs still want warrior on the balls, its a bad choice.

 

[Fearless.3569]

- Grow a thicker skin!

- L2P so people are not toxic towards you.

- Pull your own weight so that people don't have a reason to be toxic towards you.

- Find a guild that is as casual as you are, so that you don't have to deal with that toxicity.

- Block all the toxic clucks, so you don't have to deal with their toxicity.

- Don't join the groups that are advertising for experienced players, or speed clears, or META builds only!

- Build Fractal or Raid friend lists.

 

There are so many way I've learned to deal with this problem. That As a person who have played GW2 for about a month and a half now. Have only ran into this once, learned from it. Haven't had a problem with it since. I'm speaking about both Raid and Fractal groups. But then again I have been MMOing since 2001 in Runescape so I guess I know how to navigate the waters.

[Henry.5713]

My group runs as a static for Fractals and we don't send the Warrior to jump orbs either. I usually do it on Druid or Scourge (as I swap between those two depending on whether we have No Pain No Gain that day). We also happen to pug warriors frequently if we miss one static member. Thus I always tell them beforehand but they often miss me mentioning it or they simply forget as they are so used to jumping. But I am yet to have anyone insult me or even argue with me over it. People are usually quite happy even.

Makes me wonder if you were really unlucky with your pugs or if we simply happen to LFG different sort of players.

 

A litte off topic but the real difference between a good and a bad Chrono is that a good one can provide perfect boons while jumping while a bad one doesn't even provide good boons to begin with. People are so used to having warriors take care of mechanics as they do not even expect anything out of them which is pretty much a theme in raids and Fractals and which leads to players flocking towards warriors as they are being told nobody cares what they do as long as they drop banners and take care of a mechanic or two.

[hellsqueen.3045]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"hellsqueen.3045" said:

> > There may be a reason that lead them to being hostile, but perhaps those people shouldn't jump to hostility if someone doesn't know something.

>

> Respect is earned, not given. If you don't know something, how to do a mechanic, how a boss fight works, then say it, you have a keyboard and can type. Not saying that you don't know something, then that something appears during a fight and you fail, makes YOU the rude person. Unless a player turns hostile in a training run... there is no way to describe that, other than saying that person is unfit to teach/train. But in every other situation, if you don't know how things work, speak up, it's that simple.

 

Things get harder the higher you go, you think you have learned something but the mechanics and the way you have to perform can and may have to be different the higher you go. For example, sometimes when you get the debuffs like Social Awkwardness, if you don't have the perfect PUG to deal with that, then you have to change the way you perform to account for that.

 

Just because someone may not know something or may not realise they don't know it, doesn't mean you have to call people names. It's not about respect, it is about common decency.

 

Are you going to go into a level 30 dungeon and scream at some new player who has never done the dungeon before for not TP-ing to Murals Waypoint?

Because people do that, because some people are just jerks. Respect may be earned, but it shouldn't be hard not to be a name calling jerk and just remove people without belittling them.

[Cedric Ambidexter.9174]

> @"PuppyMischief.7584" said:

> I'm getting tired of the elitism and toxicity in high end content, I log on to do my fractals everyday and enjoy my time playing Guild Wars 2. Today I had to leave a 100 CM pug group because of a specific players attitude towards me calling me names, being toxic and just thinking he was better then everyone else. This is not the first time that I've dealt with this and its the people from the same guild in particular that are the offenders. I hope that they realize that this is a game and its suppose to be fun. I feel like its people like this at deter people from wanting to do content like Raids, Fractals, Etc. Do you think ArenaNet should do more about these types of situations and or people? Do you think the report system in game doesn't work as intended? Sure you can block the person but there are many people like this. Any other suggestions that anyone has?

 

It's my opinion GW2 and other MMOS are responsible for the way new players adjust to high-level content. For example, I consider myself a new player to GW2 as I haven't played consistently since I first joined roughly 2 years ago.

 

I find MANY aspects of the game difficult to grasp/enjoy because of the lack of in-game training/content-based-tutorials and guides for things like dungeons, raids, fractals-in particular, and other game aspects that deal with player STATS and crafting. Being bogged down/overwhelmed by constant rewards and junk items every 5 minutes also forces us into emptying our bag instead of learning the game. This is perhaps one of my biggest concerns.

 

Players who are experienced in this stuff don't want to train new players and get peed off if they're asked questions.

[hellsqueen.3045]

> @"Cedric Ambidexter.9174" said:

> > @"PuppyMischief.7584" said:

> > I'm getting tired of the elitism and toxicity in high end content, I log on to do my fractals everyday and enjoy my time playing Guild Wars 2. Today I had to leave a 100 CM pug group because of a specific players attitude towards me calling me names, being toxic and just thinking he was better then everyone else. This is not the first time that I've dealt with this and its the people from the same guild in particular that are the offenders. I hope that they realize that this is a game and its suppose to be fun. I feel like its people like this at deter people from wanting to do content like Raids, Fractals, Etc. Do you think ArenaNet should do more about these types of situations and or people? Do you think the report system in game doesn't work as intended? Sure you can block the person but there are many people like this. Any other suggestions that anyone has?

>

> It's my opinion GW2 and other MMOS are responsible for the way new players adjust to high-level content. For example, I consider myself a new player to GW2 as I haven't played consistently since I first joined roughly 2 years ago.

>

> I find MANY aspects of the game difficult to grasp/enjoy because of the lack of in-game training/content-based-tutorials and guides for things like dungeons, raids, fractals-in particular, and other game aspects that deal with player STATS and crafting. Being bogged down/overwhelmed by constant rewards and junk items every 5 minutes also forces us into emptying our bag instead of learning the game. This is perhaps one of my biggest concerns.

>

> Players who are experienced in this stuff don't want to train new players and get peed off if they're asked questions.

 

I think finding a guild that accepts new players and knows a little bit themselves and just focuses on fun and learning first before diving too deeply into content is really good for new and old players alike. There is always new things to learn and it is often easier to do that with people you have fun with and therefore won't get as angry with failure.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I would love to see two difficulty levels in raids, which may also fix the elitism problems by quite a bit.

 

* Then the current raids could be renamed to hard mode. With the current rewards or maybe some bonus rewards. For example, faster progression towards legendary armor and more valuable drops. Maybe also throw in a special title for completion of multiple raids in hard mode for bragging rights.

* A new normal mode, with difficulty level similar to the current dungeons. Less complicated mechanics. It should be more forgiving for player mistakes and allowing for greater build diversity. Less elitism and PUG friendly. Rewards somewhat lower than hard mode. Access to most or all of the the current AP rewards to allow AP hunters to progress raids without them having to frustrate on the highest level.

* (Optional) An easy difficulty mode. Tourist mode. Vastly lower AP rewards, difficulty and drops similar to lowest tier fractals.

 

This will allow a majority of the players to experience raids on their own difficulty level, it allows hard mode players to play the content with similar-minded players and groups allows low and medium skilled players to enjoy the content also and allows players to gradually learn the content by stepping up the difficulty levels as their skill grows over time.

 

[Cedric Ambidexter.9174]

> @"hellsqueen.3045" said:

> > @"Cedric Ambidexter.9174" said:

> > > @"PuppyMischief.7584" said:

> > > I'm getting tired of the elitism and toxicity in high end content, I log on to do my fractals everyday and enjoy my time playing Guild Wars 2. Today I had to leave a 100 CM pug group because of a specific players attitude towards me calling me names, being toxic and just thinking he was better then everyone else. This is not the first time that I've dealt with this and its the people from the same guild in particular that are the offenders. I hope that they realize that this is a game and its suppose to be fun. I feel like its people like this at deter people from wanting to do content like Raids, Fractals, Etc. Do you think ArenaNet should do more about these types of situations and or people? Do you think the report system in game doesn't work as intended? Sure you can block the person but there are many people like this. Any other suggestions that anyone has?

> >

> > It's my opinion GW2 and other MMOS are responsible for the way new players adjust to high-level content. For example, I consider myself a new player to GW2 as I haven't played consistently since I first joined roughly 2 years ago.

> >

> > I find MANY aspects of the game difficult to grasp/enjoy because of the lack of in-game training/content-based-tutorials and guides for things like dungeons, raids, fractals-in particular, and other game aspects that deal with player STATS and crafting. Being bogged down/overwhelmed by constant rewards and junk items every 5 minutes also forces us into emptying our bag instead of learning the game. This is perhaps one of my biggest concerns.

> >

> > Players who are experienced in this stuff don't want to train new players and get peed off if they're asked questions.

>

> I think finding a guild that accepts new players and knows a little bit themselves and just focuses on fun and learning first before diving too deeply into content is really good for new and old players alike. There is always new things to learn and it is often easier to do that with people you have fun with and therefore won't get as angry with failure.

 

It's extremely difficult to find a guild that does that kind of thing. All the guilds I've been a part of end up becoming just solo players doing their own thing.

 

If you can point me in the direction of such a guild I'd be grateful.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> I would love to see two difficulty levels in raids, which may also fix the elitism problems by quite a bit.

>

> * Then the current raids could be renamed to hard mode. With the current rewards or maybe some bonus rewards. For example, faster progression towards legendary armor and more valuable drops. Maybe also throw in a special title for completion of multiple raids in hard mode for bragging rights.

> * A new normal mode, with difficulty level similar to the current dungeons. Less complicated mechanics. It should be more forgiving for player mistakes and allowing for greater build diversity. Less elitism and PUG friendly. Rewards somewhat lower than hard mode. Access to most or all of the the current AP rewards to allow AP hunters to progress raids without them having to frustrate on the highest level.

> * (Optional) An easy difficulty mode. Tourist mode. Vastly lower AP rewards, difficulty and drops similar to lowest tier fractals.

>

> This will allow a majority of the players to experience raids on their own difficulty level, it allows hard mode players to play the content with similar-minded players and groups allows low and medium skilled players to enjoy the content also and allows players to gradually learn the content by stepping up the difficulty levels as their skill grows over time.

>

 

Would rather see it adapted. Maybe so even the lowest performing build possible should be able to do it with ease. Difficulty is bad for game since most people dont want harder and they dont want lose the chance for same shinies as everyone else wich your suggestion. Everyone should be able to get same rewards at their own comfort

[PaxTheGreatOne.9472]

As a person playing this game since headstart 6+ years ago I must say the community has seen a interesting development from a mostly soicial game with some focus on speedrunning dungeons in berserker's gear while the content was open for anyone with any build in any fashion in 2012 and 2013, to a game which is dominated by people who claim there is high end content in this game, only to be played in a single way, with builds stated on a reference internetpage. This content being Raids, Raids CM, T4 fractals, Fractals CM, PvP games on high tier, where everybody should conform to meta, with mindlessly drilled rotations verfied by DPS meters.

 

I noticed many friends and guildies have left, many cause it's slow but a lot also did it due to high level content being inaccesible for newer players due to barriers. asking for 500+ Li on simple runs is not good gameplay. It will kill your game in the end. In most cases when you have enough kill proof to get by you should no longer be searching for the same groups. You should try to increase the group you can play with, else the game dies. This might not be happening in the view of people but I noticed a lot of friend and guildies have not logged in form months or even years, they are not coming back. Those who do should be supported andaccepted in the community again without question.

 

Doing dungeons with the ideal setup reduced kills to mere seconds, or less even in 2013.... It broke the game to a point where the game is no longer able to cope with the NPC's failing to trigger and/ or breaking the triggers thus bugging instances. The powercreep furthered this.... some bosses can be near-instantly destroyed.

 

While undergeared, undermanned and naked runs have been a part of high end content for quite some time, most people cannot self-impose any hurdle as they find it unacceptable. But in any case failure to complete a quest as a group as a non perfect specced group shows the lack of skill, flexability and stamina of many and the people who cannot deal with this are not capable of adapting. They are not the Elite. They are Wannabee-Elitists destroying the pleasure of people to feel better. They developed coping mechanisms and strategies whcih are unsocial and unwanted in MMO communities outside dedicated guilds.

 

Failures as a group doing the content is seemingly always the failure of 1 individual, often with lower killproof, lower DPS scores, lower AP, of not completely conforming to META, while the group as a GROUP fails. The content is not defeating a certain quest (read dungeon, fractal, raid, PvP matchup), it's defeating a quest as a GROUP.

 

Meta has a problem in the fact META only provided a Maximum DPS option, and more often then not, no other alternatives. Older Meta's can be pretty good still unless totaly nerfed, whcih is a rare occurance.... Why not allow slightly offmeta and former meta builds in groups as well... There seem to be legit reasons to keep playing those in many cases as they used to be gooid for something. And other gear sets can be ok as well, provided they do not completely break the encounters...

 

The toxicity arising from 1 person to another due to players not wanting or able to run "optimal" also shows the inability of this selfproclaimed elite to finish content in a way this game was also setup to be played. Teaching people ways to better themselves at content is a sign of mastery. Having a group optimize their setup to be able to finish content together during runs while making use of any of the setups they bring says more about group quality then just being mean and degrading ever will.

 

Thus playing the game in a way with everything maxed to the bitter end, lowering the need for skill and the final difficulty, depriving the game from any challenge, is also a loss the the people playing the game... Meta is not high-end unless you clock each run, and record the gains you make over the past run. Meta is mostly a crutch for the wannabee elitist, to throw into an unwanted game of words and excuses when something is not going optimally. Any sense of skill seems directly connected to DPS values and meta specs.... and it's not.

 

Sometimes it's refreshing to see "high-end" guilds doing dungeons, fractals or raids with non meta gear and builds to show builds and gear are -mostly- not relevant.

However some content can also be completely broken by selecting non meta gear and build, outhealing or trivializing mechanics to a point where the game becomes a cakewalk, provided you have 5 or 10 more minutes to finish the content. (Think of Cairn with 3 or more decent healers and/or just 10 WvW build mid to high toughness DPS characters. )

 

On the other side of this lies expectation. Some people want to do bosses in minimum time, returning to speedruns. But unless this is clocked this is not relevant.... The only relevancy remaining is finishing the content. And making sure the game and it's players survive in a healthy way to show your results.

Toxicity and calling names will void any health of the game and will make your results no longer matter, as there will not be any audience to witness your skill and succes.

 

[Warlord.9082]

> @"PuppyMischief.7584" said:

> Today I had to leave a 100 CM pug group because of a specific players attitude towards me calling me names, being toxic and just thinking he was better then everyone else.

 

This tells me that you didn't listen to anything the leader of the group said or messed up so badly at least once (but I assume multiple times) that they had to bail out. They are not required to play with you, OP. Reporting it is ridiculous and I hope they take your ability away to report if you did.

 

Either way, mind telling us what it was that you did to piss them off?

 

[Grogba.6204]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

 

> Would rather see it adapted. Maybe so even the lowest performing build possible should be able to do it with ease.

 

Now I want to see how that person clears everything with nomads staff guardian.

Can I get all the shinies when I log in, plox?

 

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Grogba.6204" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

>

> > Would rather see it adapted. Maybe so even the lowest performing build possible should be able to do it with ease.

>

> Now I want to see how that person clears everything with nomads staff guardian.

> Can I get all the shinies when I log in, plox?

>

 

It would end toxic behavior since they wouldnt be better than anyone else. And satisfy the majority. And allow all to play how they want

[Despond.2174]

Hmm people toxic about open world DPS? I've never once experienced that, I find this hard to believe. Maybe CMs and high end raiding you can get people you may not agree with but that's to be expected @ any high level content. If they are actually excessively rude or something for no reason you can report, other wise stick with friends/guildies. To be honest, T4 pug dailies, open world, WVW etc it's pretty much 95% people being nice and sometimes OVERLY nice lol.

 

Also I find in many cases like someone stated there's usually another story to be told. Someone may be really hampering a group, not accepting civil criticisms etc then when the group has had enough and decide to replace they will go to the forums and paint a picture like they were hard done by - I am not saying this is you but it's very common to have people exaggerate what actually happened.

 

GW2 is easily the most friendliest MMO I've ever played but you can never avoid conflict, it's a human condition and natural as long as it's in check.

[sigur.9453]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"Grogba.6204" said:

> > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> >

> > > Would rather see it adapted. Maybe so even the lowest performing build possible should be able to do it with ease.

> >

> > Now I want to see how that person clears everything with nomads staff guardian.

> > Can I get all the shinies when I log in, plox?

> >

>

> It would end toxic behavior since they wouldnt be better than anyone else. And satisfy the majority. And allow all to play how they want

 

you seamingly forgot that raids is a niche mode for ppl that want to be challenged. its not about pleasing the majority, its for entertaining a minority and keeping them in the game to spent money. same could be said about any mode that isn´t the most popular (OW). remove that and lose players that only play those modes. or do you think people will actually start playing guild wars because they have a raid/wvw/pvp simulator now?

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > @"hellsqueen.3045" said:

> > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > > > @"hellsqueen.3045" said:

> > > > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > > > > There is always the other side of the coin.

> > > > >

> > > > > Did you kitten up a Mechanic or Bad Dps?

> > > > >

> > > > > (Most) people are toxic for a reason.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > People are toxic at all levels for content in this game.

> > > > People were toxic about your DPS output in dungeons and in the open world.

> > > > There is no excuse for being an A hole to people, no matter what level content, but lower level stuff should have next to none.

> > > > Who cares if someone messes up a mechanic? Yeah, it makes things take longer but maybe talk to that person and ask and see if you can help them and if they don't have a clue, maybe ask them to drop out or something because they need people who know what they are doing and if they don't leave and you fail again then kick them. Then that leaves the person in question with a choice, do they do the right thing for everyone if they still don't have a clue what they are doing and find people who can teach them more slowly or do they keep being a burden and get kicked even after they were politely asked if they would drop out.

> > > > I don't know why there are so many people who play this game who think their success is the only thing that matters, everyone is trying to have fun and learn and succeed and play, just because your success is less guaranteed, it doesn't mean you should be a jerk about it.

> > > >

> > >

> > > The problem here is that there are level of toxicity.

> > >

> > > I understand its feels bad when you get called names, but people also shouldn’t ger offended by the tiniest

> > > bit of hostility.

> > >

> > > And more often then not there is a Reason his Teammates are getting Hostile.

> > >

> > > People are not some evil douchbags.

> > >

> > > You have to trigger them first.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > There may be a reason that lead them to being hostile, but perhaps those people shouldn't jump to hostility if someone doesn't know something.

> > And yes, sometimes people are just that. Sometimes people are angry and cruel people, there are garbage people in this world and video games are not going to be immune to having those people exist. Sometimes you may just get someone on a bad day, other times you might just get someone who is like that constantly.

> > This is not just restricted to GW though, it's all kinds of games. It is just kitten that it exists in all kinds of games because it sucks that hatred and anger exist everywhere.

>

> You have a very sad perspective of the world.

>

>

>

 

Pretty objective