Legendary Fractal Armour

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> As for the farmers that will come, you should see what is going on in pvp for legendary back item. Luckily there is a 'kick' option in fractals.

 

That was gonna be my next line! The same thing happened in PVP when they added the Legendary back item there (and then legendary armor)

This is the reason I'm calling "bringing new players" a con and not a pro as I've already seen what happened in PVP with these so called "new players" went to PVP for the shinnies with zero regard to the game mode itself.

 

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> Most current Fractal goals, such as endless Potions and Titles are great to keep established long time Fractal players engaged, for some time, but are limited to Fractals itself. They don't do much for people not already interested in that content to give Fractals a shot, and to get over initial reservations they may have.

 

I don't know about you, but I think T1 fractals are easier than many open world meta events. They are also REQUIRED to make Ad Infinitum (a legendary backpack), they are REQUIRED to make most Legendary Weapons (as parts of the Legendary journey) if you don't buy them, or their precursors, from the TP. Are all those legendary rewards so little to entice players to try Fractals and a Legendary Armor instead will do the trick? Sorry, I'm not buying it, there is tons of Legendary items available **exclusively** through Fractals, do they need more to entice new players?

 

~~Can I get G1 precursor collections in Raids? No. Can I get them in PVP? No. WVW? No. They are Fractal exclusives and very good incentive for players to try them and get over their initial reservations.~~

 

Edit: you need PVP/WVW for the precursors, my bad there

[phs.6089]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > As for the farmers that will come, you should see what is going on in pvp for legendary back item. Luckily there is a 'kick' option in fractals.

>

> That was gonna be my next line! The same thing happened in PVP when they added the Legendary back item there (and then legendary armor)

> This is the reason I'm calling "bringing new players" a con and not a pro as I've already seen what happened in PVP with these so called "new players" went to PVP for the shinnies with zero regard to the game mode itself.

>

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > Most current Fractal goals, such as endless Potions and Titles are great to keep established long time Fractal players engaged, for some time, but are limited to Fractals itself. They don't do much for people not already interested in that content to give Fractals a shot, and to get over initial reservations they may have.

>

> I don't know about you, but I think T1 fractals are easier than many open world meta events. They are also REQUIRED to make Ad Infinitum (a legendary backpack), they are REQUIRED to make most Legendary Weapons (as parts of the Legendary journey) if you don't buy them, or their precursors, from the TP. Are all those legendary rewards so little to entice players to try Fractals and a Legendary Armor instead will do the trick? Sorry, I'm not buying it, there is tons of Legendary items available **exclusively** through Fractals, do they need more to entice new players?

>

> ~~Can I get G1 precursor collections in Raids? No. Can I get them in PVP? No. WVW? No. They are Fractal exclusives and very good incentive for players to try them and get over their initial reservations.~~

>

> Edit: you need PVP/WVW for the precursors, my bad there

 

Yeah but in fractals one can not hop into party and afk, troll, farm pips. None in fractals talks of dps before kicking, they juts kick if a person dies too much, has low AR, messes mech etc.

I don't see this farmers getting anywhere in fractals with attitude they show in pvp.

 

Thing with t1 for precursor is a one time run, t1s don't give you even to scratch the surface.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> Please enlighten me on those "real barriers" then

Personal preference and ease of accessibility, the main reason why raids are inherently niche content (in any MMORPG, not just GW2) is the amount of organisation/coordination it takes which is something many people (first and foremost casuals) are unwilling to bother themselfs with. Same with fractals but to a lesser degree, fractals are designed to be 5 player content and while easily soloable the number of players doing them would be significantly higher if they were desined to be 1-5 player content. OW on the other hand is just the embodyment of easy access, coordination (while often times benificial) is something people usualy don't have to deal with. WvW is similar in that regard but it incorporates a specific type of PvP the average player doesn't want to deal with.

 

.

 

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> I certainly wouldn't say every single piece of the vast amount of different PvE content **needs**

Again:

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> There is no "need" for anything but that's not really an argument as it says nothing about whether or not having it is a good thing. There's no "need" for mounts either but people generally seem to like them so it's safe to say that their inclusion was a good thing.

 

.

 

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> The current set requires a lot of PvE outside of raids which already makes them the "PvE legnedary armor" **just like** there is a PvP and a WvW version.

It's not even remotely comparable to an overarching set like the sPvP or the WvW ones. You can get a WvW set by exclusively playing borderlands while you can also get the set whithout ever having to bother with this part of the content. The same can't be said about the Envoy set and its relationship to raids. It's not the "PvE" set, if anything it's the HoT raid set.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Maybe a better example, instead of removing rewards, would have been to make all rewards in the game available from everywhere. If someone wants to farm world bosses to get legendary armor, fractal weapon skins, fractal tonic, WvW legendary backpack, PvP titles, and so on, then they can. Players could then do the content that they prefer in order to get the rewards that they want and apparently there’s no harm to the game from doing this.

Personally i'd not be opposed to this (although i do know that some people would be). There should be always multiple avenues to obtain most things, unless those things don't have any meaning outside of a specific content.

 

Specifically, i do believe that a full legendary set (weapons, armor and trinkets) should be available for all modes that currently have at least one legendary option. It doesn't have to be the same set, though.

 

> If players have no issue with one item being available in another area then they really shouldn’t have any issues with all items being available in another area as well.

Notice, that the discussion is about a fractal legendary armor being available in fractals. It's not about the Envoy set. People having no issue with fractals getting their own legendary armor set might not necessarily have no issue with _envoy_ set being available in fractals.

 

> There’s little difference between having legendary armor to be available in raids, to be available in fractals, to be available from world bosses, or to be available from semi-AFK farming mobs. I’d say skill level would have been a major difference but that has already been dismissed otherwise there wouldn’t have been an issue with them solely being available in raids. If an exception was made for fractals then why couldn’t one be made for any other area of PvE?

Oh, yes, i believe that an open world pve legendary armor in the style of gen1 weapons should be a thing as well. I do not believe that Fractals are so special they are somehow more deserving of legendary armor than another type of content. I do not believe _Raids_ are all that special either. So yeah, there's indeed little difference between legendary armor being available in raids or fractals, or open world.

 

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > I'm sorry, why exactly bringing new players to fractals is a bad thing?

>

> It's bad if these new players come only to get their armor.

Yes. The same as it is for raids. It's exactly why high-profile rewards should not be content-exclusive.

 

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > Fractals offer what most MMOs did and doing, progression trough dungeoning.

>

> And they offer that today without the need to add a Legendary Armor as a reward. Why aren't these supposedly new players not liking progression and dungeoneering now but they will suddenly like them both if they add Legendary Armor as a reward? Why haven't these "new" players, that will come to Fractals if they add the Legendary Armor, already played and liked Fractals? Why do they need Legendary Armor to play content that offers what most MMOs do?

I tried to ask some similar questions for raids. I haven't heard a good answer yet.

 

 

 

 

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Maybe a better example, instead of removing rewards, would have been to make all rewards in the game available from everywhere. If someone wants to farm world bosses to get legendary armor, fractal weapon skins, fractal tonic, WvW legendary backpack, PvP titles, and so on, then they can. Players could then do the content that they prefer in order to get the rewards that they want and apparently there’s no harm to the game from doing this.

> Personally i'd not be opposed to this (although i do know that some people would be). There should be always multiple avenues to obtain most things, unless those things don't have any meaning outside of a specific content.

>

> Specifically, i do believe that a full legendary set (weapons, armor and trinkets) should be available for all modes that currently have at least one legendary option. It doesn't have to be the same set, though.

>

> > If players have no issue with one item being available in another area then they really shouldn’t have any issues with all items being available in another area as well.

> Notice, that the discussion is about a fractal legendary armor being available in fractals. It's not about the Envoy set. People having no issue with fractals getting their own legendary armor set might not necessarily have no issue with _envoy_ set being available in fractals.

>

> > There’s little difference between having legendary armor to be available in raids, to be available in fractals, to be available from world bosses, or to be available from semi-AFK farming mobs. I’d say skill level would have been a major difference but that has already been dismissed otherwise there wouldn’t have been an issue with them solely being available in raids. If an exception was made for fractals then why couldn’t one be made for any other area of PvE?

> Oh, yes, i believe that an open world pve legendary armor in the style of gen1 weapons should be a thing as well. I do not believe that Fractals are so special they are somehow more deserving of legendary armor than another type of content. I do not believe _Raids_ are all that special either. So yeah, there's indeed little difference between legendary armor being available in raids or fractals, or open world.

>

>

I’m not a fan of the Envoy set, mainly because of the looks of the Armor, but the fact that it has nothing to do with the Envoy’s.

 

That being said, I would prefer that if Fractals got a Legendary Armor, it should a unique skin to fractals, maybe something resembling the fractal Weapons.

 

[Eramonster.2718]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > Let’s all be honest here that people are only wanting legendary armor to be obtainable in fractals because they know they can’t get an easy mode in raids so this is the next best thing.

> >

> > I will complete my second legendary Armor from Raids this week (light, already got heavy), and am close to getting the medium one from WvW.

> > So I'm set.

>

> Not getting Medium Armor set from Raids?

>

 

Raid Legendary Armors might be attractive and bragging rights; a year ago, but nowadays it's just meh... just too common now(as if it's standard uniform). More for convenience like some has said. Player's will not salvage them due to the stat and runes swap function. Transmuting the Legendary Armors is as low it will get unlike Ascended which most probably end up being salvaged.

 

A nice skin that last(for a long period) will suffice for me. Not against the idea of adding more legendary armors outside of PvE Raid, WvW and PvP, just hope it will be less costly :smile: for players just aftering for the skins like me. Truth to be told, inches away from transmuting Legendary Weapons into "better"/matching skins countless time by now.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > Let’s all be honest here that people are only wanting legendary armor to be obtainable in fractals because they know they can’t get an easy mode in raids so this is the next best thing.

> > >

> > > I will complete my second legendary Armor from Raids this week (light, already got heavy), and am close to getting the medium one from WvW.

> > > So I'm set.

> >

> > Not getting Medium Armor set from Raids?

> >

>

> Raid Legendary Armors might be attractive and bragging rights; a year ago, but nowadays it's just meh... just too common now(as if it's standard uniform). More for convenience like some has said. Player's will not salvage them due to the stat and runes swap function. Transmuting the Legendary Armors is as low it will get unlike Ascended which most probably end up being salvaged.

>

> A nice skin that last(for a long period) will suffice for me. Not against the idea of adding more legendary armors outside of PvE Raid, WvW and PvP, just hope it will be less costly :smile: for players just aftering for the skins like me. Truth to be told, inches away from transmuting Legendary Weapons into "better"/matching skins countless time by now.

 

I just prefer the Mistforged Triumphant and Mistforged Glorious sets over the Envoy, especially when it comes to dyeing.

[Reverielle.3972]

> @"Hesacon.8735" said:

> > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > I'd rather they not further reduce the incentives to raid by introducing a far more accessible competitor.

>

> The raiding community is all the incentive I need *not* to raid.

Hey! Sure there are some sots among the community (there are in _any_ community) but I think we're certainly not all undesirables.

 

And no, I don't think there should be legendary armour available through Fractals.

[Asum.4960]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > Let’s all be honest here that people are only wanting legendary armor to be obtainable in fractals because they know they can’t get an easy mode in raids so this is the next best thing.

> >

> > I will complete my second legendary Armor from Raids this week (light, already got heavy), and am close to getting the medium one from WvW.

> > So I'm set.

>

> Not getting Medium Armor set from Raids?

>

>

 

I like the Heavy skin and at least want to have the Light one, don't like the Medium at all, so I decided to go for those two from Raids, while simultaneously working on the medium in WvW.

 

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > Most current Fractal goals, such as endless Potions and Titles are great to keep established long time Fractal players engaged, for some time, but are limited to Fractals itself. They don't do much for people not already interested in that content to give Fractals a shot, and to get over initial reservations they may have.

>

> I don't know about you, but I think T1 fractals are easier than many open world meta events. They are also REQUIRED to make Ad Infinitum (a legendary backpack), they are REQUIRED to make most Legendary Weapons (as parts of the Legendary journey) if you don't buy them, or their precursors, from the TP. Are all those legendary rewards so little to entice players to try Fractals and a Legendary Armor instead will do the trick? Sorry, I'm not buying it, there is tons of Legendary items available **exclusively** through Fractals, do they need more to entice new players?

>

> ~~Can I get G1 precursor collections in Raids? No. Can I get them in PVP? No. WVW? No. They are Fractal exclusives and very good incentive for players to try them and get over their initial reservations.~~

>

> Edit: you need PVP/WVW for the precursors, my bad there

 

I don't know how many times I have to repeat that especially CM's need more incentives (which a reward like Legendary Armour could justify to play/try) and development.

T1 Fractals don't need further incentives, especially since high level Fractal rewards incentivise going through them anyway for new players.

 

When less than 1% of the entire population of the game ever even completed 100CM once, then surely we can agree that there is a lack of incentives there?

That is a tiny community for a daily activity in the game to choose from.

 

When all the players doing that content are a tiny group of established players who have done it daily for months and expect people of similar skill, it in turn also makes it incredibly hard for new people to come into daily CM runs to get started, further preventing growth, without some big goal driving in enough players to learn the content together.

 

 

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > @"Hesacon.8735" said:

> > > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > I'd rather they not further reduce the incentives to raid by introducing a far more accessible competitor.

> >

> > The raiding community is all the incentive I need *not* to raid.

> Hey! Sure there are some sots among the community (there are in _any_ community) but I think we're certainly not all undesirables.

>

> And no, I don't think there should be legendary armour available through Fractals.

 

Why is that?

[zealex.9410]

I just want a fractal armor maaaan, i just a kitten want a fractal themed armor.

 

Also no, dont tie it to fractal god, no armor deserves year+ of fractals when the raid armor took 7 months or w/e.

 

Instead make some rather hard achievements or cms and tie it to that (with some grind to go along obv but max something like 5 or so months)

 

Having long term goals is cool but we already got those some mid term goals are what we need imo.

[Eramonster.2718]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> Also no, dont tie it to fractal god, no armor deserves year+ of fractals when the raid armor took 7 months or w/e.

 

Not to have it heavily gated. Eg. WvW's Sublime Mistforged requires 2k WvW rank! :astonished: a skin surpass Legendary. Thus, hope not costly for players just aftering the skins for those with no plans on getting Legendary armors. Uses existing material sink (enough with new currency and trash drops *cough * Legendary Spike.)

 

*Then there's X months for a full set of envoy depending on raid progress. Raid resets once a week vs fractals which can be done daily.*

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> When less than 1% of the entire population of the game ever even completed 100CM once, then surely we can agree that there is a lack of incentives there?

I don't agree. First the numbers aren't supported by the stats on GW2 Efficiency (see below); just over 10% have done L100 normal and 8.7% have credit for L100 in challenge mode. (If you have some source for "less than 1%", please share.) Besides which, 100 CM was designed to appeal to the minority of the minority: the hardest-core group of those who embrace this game's 5-person challenging content.

 

So it seems to me that the incentives are just enough, at least for now.

 

##### GW2 Efficiency Stats

>! * [10.3%](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattered_Observatory_Fractal_(achievements)) have completed _Closing the Loop_, i.e. FL100/normal

>! * 8.7% have completed _Mind out of Time_, i.e. 100/CM

>!

>! In comparison, the following are [the stats for completing the various complete tiers](https://gw2efficiency.com/account/unlock-statistics?filter.search=fractal&filter.category=30):

>! * Initiate (1-25): 23.7%

>! * Adept (26-50): 11.7%

>! * Expert (51-75): 9.8%

>! * Master (76-100): 17.7%

>!

>! And as another comparison:

>! * ~20% have killed Sabetha

>! * 4.2% have killed Qadim

>! * 27.5% have successfully Escorted Glenna (less than half, only 11.7%, have brought the bunny)

 

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> Thing with t1 for precursor is a one time run, t1s don't give you even to scratch the surface.

 

The question was to give people incentive to **try** fractals. Precursors are enough to try them.

[Talindra.4958]

Leg fractal armour skin? Yes yes yes.. and yes ?? I like skins ? so any new skins I'd support

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> I don't know how many times I have to repeat that especially CM's need more incentives (which a reward like Legendary Armour could justify to play/try) and development.

> T1 Fractals don't need further incentives, especially since high level Fractal rewards incentivise going through them anyway for new players.

 

And I agree that CMs need extra incentive, this is for both Fractal AND Raid CMs.

 

I was responding to:

> There are plenty of people who think they don't like something without ever trying it. Give them the right incentive, and the might find enjoyment in the gamemode, while helping to keep it alive and developed.

 

I think precursors and the back pack are enough incentive for players to try Fractals but not enough to keep them in Fractals

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> I think precursors and the back pack are enough incentive for players to try Fractals but not enough to keep them in Fractals

 

This is so true.

 

And this is why I don't think we need a legendary fractal armor for the whole PvE community. The majority of casual players need an open world legendary armor. Those people won't step into fractals and be successful there unless you'll get the armor in T1 which will then definitely not bring in many new players into higher tiers.

If there's the possibility Anet should create that open world armor and maybe another set for fractals at least they should put in a fractal armor but a single legendary fractal armor wouldn't change anything as the open world player base would still feel left out and not satisfied with the situation.

Since we have a 2nd expansion now and HoT can be acquired for a low amount of money I also don't think the raid legendary armor is working as a selling feature for HoT any longer. Anet could easily pass this old unique feature since I already paid nothing (10€) when I bought HoT for my 2nd account in 2017.

 

As a longterm raider with every leggy armor I couldn't care less about the open world community getting their own armor (with a different skin of course). I mean first of all it's nothing special any longer (if it ever was) since everyone who is able to play raids (enough players nowadays) can acquire it and newer players easier than before plus the armor is out now for almost 2 years.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> I don't know how many times I have to repeat that especially CM's need more incentives (which a reward like Legendary Armour could justify to play/try) and development.

Do they? If not enough people are running them now, with all the incentives they curently have, then maybe not enough people are simply interested in this level of difficulty in the first place.

> When less than 1% of the entire population of the game ever even completed 100CM once, then surely we can agree that there is a lack of incentives there?

At best we might agree that there's not enough people interested in that type of content. Why they are not interested is however arguable. I do not believe it's just due to "lack of incentives".

 

> When all the players doing that content are a tiny group of established players who have done it daily for months and expect people of similar skill, it in turn also makes it incredibly hard for new people to come into daily CM runs to get started, further preventing growth, without some big goal driving in enough players to learn the content together.

I believe, that it's the difficulty that prevent a bigger influx of players into the mode. Not the lack of incentives.

 

Seriously, it's like maddoctor said before. You really, really do not want the mode swamped by people that are there only to farm Legendary Armor. They wouldn't mesh up well with those that are there for the mode itself.

 

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> I think precursors and the back pack are enough incentive for players to try Fractals but not enough to keep them in Fractals

Which is as it should be. The incentives exclusive to the content should do exactly that - make players take a look at the content so they can decide whether they like it or not. Any further incentives should be just good enough to make those that did end up liking the content think that they aren't losing out by doing it.

I believe that currently fractal CM incentives probably fulfill that requirement. Raid CMs do not (there's no reason whatsoever to repeat them), but that seems to be by design.

 

Fractal Legendary Armor (like any already existing leg armor set) would probably end up passing that barrier too far, as it would probably require a lot of fractal grind. Still, it would be one of many legendary armor sets, which would give the player a choice which one to pursue.

 

Due to that, i believe CMs should not be required for it. At best they should be able to hasten the process by allowing the player to get more relics, pristines and matrices. Or, you could base the leg armor grind component on some new stuff (let's call it fractal insights) that would drop only from t4 daily chests, and just make CMs drop additional ones (that would increase the grind speed for CM runners by 50%, which i believe is a massive incentive already).

 

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> I believe that currently fractal CM incentives probably fulfill that requirement. Raid CMs do not (there's no reason whatsoever to repeat them), but that seems to be by design.

 

Last I remember they are working on a way to make Raid CMs repeatable, who knows what they'll come up with.

 

> Due to that, i believe CMs should not be required for it. At best they should be able to hasten the process by allowing the player to get more relics, pristines and matrices.

 

T1 Fractals are parts of Legendary Precursors, T2/T3 fractals are used for Ad Infinitum (with the exception of the requirement to beat level 95 once, which is part of T4)

A new reward, like a legendary armor, should have collections that start at least on T3 and go to T4 later on. Even if CMs aren't required, those other collections have more strict requirements (time limits, beat with healing reduction) so it stands to reason that a Legendary Armor would have similar increased requirements (not CM difficulty).

[Henry.5713]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > Please enlighten me on those "real barriers" then

> Personal preference and ease of accessibility, the main reason why raids are inherently niche content (in any MMORPG, not just GW2) is the amount of organisation/coordination it takes which is something many people (first and foremost casuals) are unwilling to bother themselfs with. Same with fractals but to a lesser degree, fractals are designed to be 5 player content and while easily soloable the number of players doing them would be significantly higher if they were desined to be 1-5 player content. OW on the other hand is just the embodyment of easy access, coordination (while often times benificial) is something people usualy don't have to deal with. WvW is similar in that regard but it incorporates a specific type of PvP the average player doesn't want to deal with.

>

> .

>

> > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > I certainly wouldn't say every single piece of the vast amount of different PvE content **needs**

> Again:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > There is no "need" for anything but that's not really an argument as it says nothing about whether or not having it is a good thing. There's no "need" for mounts either but people generally seem to like them so it's safe to say that their inclusion was a good thing.

>

> .

>

> > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > The current set requires a lot of PvE outside of raids which already makes them the "PvE legnedary armor" **just like** there is a PvP and a WvW version.

> It's not even remotely comparable to an overarching set like the sPvP or the WvW ones. You can get a WvW set by exclusively playing borderlands while you can also get the set whithout ever having to bother with this part of the content. The same can't be said about the Envoy set and its relationship to raids. It's not the "PvE" set, if anything it's the HoT raid set.

 

The lack of comparability comes from the difference in game mode design. Any of these modes and their related reward systems function differently and the legendary armor sets are obviously tied to said reward systems. Thus they require you to play matches in PvP and ask you to show up in WvW to take a small part of that big war for a long time. Neither of these roads are exciting or special but it was the most practical approach and exactly what these modes are about. PvE is quite a different story. They obviously tried to highlight specific content they are proud of such as raid, HoT Metas (or those maps in general). This makes the legendary armor set as much of a PvE set as it makes Aurora a PvE trinket.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > I believe that currently fractal CM incentives probably fulfill that requirement. Raid CMs do not (there's no reason whatsoever to repeat them), but that seems to be by design.

>

> Last I remember they are working on a way to make Raid CMs repeatable, who knows what they'll come up with.

Last i remember they said they didn't want to do that, because they believed it would splinter the already small raid community. I might be remembering it wrong, though.

 

>

> > Due to that, i believe CMs should not be required for it. At best they should be able to hasten the process by allowing the player to get more relics, pristines and matrices.

>

> T1 Fractals are parts of Legendary Precursors, T2/T3 fractals are used for Ad Infinitum (with the exception of the requirement to beat level 95 once, which is part of T4)

> A new reward, like a legendary armor, should have collections that start at least on T3 and go to T4 later on. Even if CMs aren't required, those other collections have more strict requirements (time limits, beat with healing reduction) so it stands to reason that a Legendary Armor would have similar increased requirements (not CM difficulty).

Agreed.

 

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> Last i remember they said they didn't want to do that, because they believed it would splinter the already small raid community. I might be remembering it wrong, though.

 

 

tl;dr:

> All that to say: we hear you on the Raid CM front, and we're exploring options.

[Reverielle.3972]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > > @"Hesacon.8735" said:

> > > > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > > I'd rather they not further reduce the incentives to raid by introducing a far more accessible competitor.

> > >

> > > The raiding community is all the incentive I need *not* to raid.

> > Hey! Sure there are some sots among the community (there are in _any_ community) but I think we're certainly not all undesirables.

> >

> > And no, I don't think there should be legendary armour available through Fractals.

>

> Why is that?

 

Well, I think anyone that plays high-level Fractals (such that would likely be necessary for any Fractal-based Legendary Armour collection) would likely also take part in Raids, and have access to the Legendary Armour journey there. I'm sure there are some that love Fractals and don't like raids (and vice versa), but I believe they would be in the minority overall. After all the content is fundamentally similar: Group-based content you have to work with others in some sort of coordinated fashion to complete. So in a fashion it's largely redundant; we already have Legendary Armour available for that mode, via raids.

 

Now I do think there is one area where Legendary Armour could be implemented, and that is for PvE overland content. That section (arguably the largest) of the player-base does not have any legendary armour available yet. PvP, WvW, and Group-PvE modes all do.

[phs.6089]

We don't need to keep people in fractals. People come to fractals either way. We need leg armor for those that already doing fractals.

Fractals are attractive the way they are for any instanced based PVE player.

The community is great, first and foremost.

Tiers to build up knowledge of fights.

Progression.

Rewards for beating top tier.

Challenge Mods.

[Cristalyan.5728]

> @"Reverielle.3972" said:

 

>

> Well, I think anyone that plays high-level Fractals (such that would likely be necessary for any Fractal-based Legendary Armour collection) would likely also take part in Raids, and have access to the Legendary Armour journey there. I'm sure there are some that love Fractals and don't like raids (and vice versa), but I believe they would be in the minority overall.

>

> Now I do think there is one area where Legendary Armour could be implemented, and that is for PvE overland content. That section (arguably the largest) of the player-base does not have any legendary armour available yet. PvP, WvW, and Group-PvE modes all do.

 

I'm one of the players doing fractals but not raids (I raided only for achievements and MP. I raid now only when I have no choice when my friends ask me to fill a place in the squad). I cannot say I dislike the raids as content or mechanics. I dislike the raids because I completely don't like exclusive content. And this was what ANet tried from the very start - to deliver us the raids as a very exclusive content reserved for a very few. No matter how hard the raids are now, no matter even if in the future they will release soloable raids, I will keep my position as long as Anet will not confirm (with an official statement for example) that they changed the point of view regarding the raids. If they will state the intention to make the Fractals exclusive content, I think I will stop playing the fractals also.

 

So, I think I belong to the minority you mention and I will welcome a Fractal Legendary Armor. Also I think your idea with an armor for the PvE overland content is excellent - I think that an armor you can achieve in the same way you achieve the Legendary Weapons is something we needed from the very beginning of the "Legendary Armor story". With a mention - if they make these armors to have common skins only with the name changed to "legendary", then I don't want this armor.

 

Because if they were able to design an armor for a very few, then I have no doubts ANet have more than enough resources to make a good armor for the "large part" ignored before.