Thoughts on Update

[Solori.6025]

I'm actually waiting on that one person to come in and say " Mesmer is Anets favorite class" even after all these nerfs.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Removal of tempest defence......wth. Why?

Another nerf to electric discharge. Why?

They really dont like fa ele at all.

 

I mean ele just keeps on getting hurt update after update.

 

And u know what theres a vapor fprm bug when in down state that the akill does absolutly nothing. This class needs to get kicked back into beta and be unable to select and play it.

[Math.5123]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> I'm actually waiting on that one person to come in and say " Mesmer is Anets favorite class" even after all these nerfs.

 

Scepter mesmer is the single most overpowered build in the game right now.

[Solori.6025]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > I'm actually waiting on that one person to come in and say " Mesmer is Anets favorite class" even after all these nerfs.

>

> Scepter mesmer is the single most overpowered build in the game right now.

 

*I will tingle......your stingle berry*

 

 

(=====________________=====)

 

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > I'm actually waiting on that one person to come in and say " Mesmer is Anets favorite class" even after all these nerfs.

>

> Scepter mesmer is the single most overpowered build in the game right now.

 

That's not how you spell Boonbeast, who just got buffed to have access to on demand double protection and double protection but for condition damage.

 

 

[Math.5123]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > I'm actually waiting on that one person to come in and say " Mesmer is Anets favorite class" even after all these nerfs.

> >

> > Scepter mesmer is the single most overpowered build in the game right now.

>

> That's not how you spell Boonbeast, who just got buffed to have access to on demand double protection and double protection but for condition damage.

>

>

 

We'll just have to wait and see.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > I'm actually waiting on that one person to come in and say " Mesmer is Anets favorite class" even after all these nerfs.

> > >

> > > Scepter mesmer is the single most overpowered build in the game right now.

> >

> > That's not how you spell Boonbeast, who just got buffed to have access to on demand double protection and double protection but for condition damage.

> >

> >

>

> We'll just have to wait and see.

 

It was already unambiguously the best 1v1 build in the game and it got one of the most obscene buffs I've ever seen an already dominant build get.

[Kuya.6495]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> Removal of tempest defence......wth. Why?

> Another nerf to electric discharge. Why?

> They really dont like fa ele at all.

>

> I mean ele just keeps on getting hurt update after update.

>

> And u know what theres a vapor fprm bug when in down state that the akill does absolutly nothing. This class needs to get kicked back into beta and be unable to select and play it.

 

They changed all auto stun break and auto damage traits. How can you act like this is singling out ele?

[SteepledHat.1345]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> I'm actually waiting on that one person to come in and say " Mesmer is Anets favorite class" even after all these nerfs.

 

This patch fundamentally removed mesmer's identity in every game mode.

[Eugchriss.2046]

As nobody mention rev, I ll do. Increasing sword #4 is in my opinion a bad idea. 1s of cast time is really huge. I rather prefer having it nerfed by 20-33% that increasing it s cast time.

(nerfing one of the few skills rev has because people are focusing on what they are doing instead of what the ennemy is doing....Let me guess, next patch Phase Traversal will get nerfed too)

[TorQ.7041]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> I liked the removed elixir s passive on engi, now bad holos won't be hard carried by that as before at least, even tho the rest remained the same so...

>

> Full counter damage nerf was unnecessary, how many times it got nerfed already?

> Next patch they will finally remove completely the damage.

> SpB was balanced in my opinion.

>

> Soulbeast nerfs, but the new Dolyak stance it's stronger than before... maybe the longer cooldowns will open a more wide window for counterplay.

>

> Condi mirages nerfs, but if you see the notes actually power mirage was hit, and nothing about condis was even touched, apart that axes little insignificant changes.

> Portal will probably be replaced maybe and i doubt condi mirage won't be meta anymore.

>

> Scrapper buffs seems weird, they removed the stab on demand from gyro usage trait, they buffed the dps, but holo is still superior as dps, so who knows, maybe someone will come out with an interesting build.

>

> Core guard seems received buffs to hammer, so it will be even more easy and brainless to play, but at least it's not too cancer.

>

> The other profession changes dunno.

 

I play Holo... Not my main but I switch out for it when required.

 

I think this is actually a buff for Holo... Before if it procs. U can't actually use any skills. A good player would just wait till it's gone n kill u since u r basically on 1 hit hp. Bad players would just keep attacking n blow their stuff then complain...

 

With this update now u can use skills while having free hp. If u r about to die. Then insanely stealth and or aoe cc then run away.

[TorQ.7041]

Thoughts are. Goodbye d/p thief. I have loved you. Prob the most fun spec I ve played on pvp. It's tiny dps has now been all but moved to a tickle. Looks every every 1 will now be on core or DE.

[kahzee.6042]

 

Who cares noone pvps anyway. Dead game mode is dead....

[Master Ketsu.4569]

This is one of the more frustrating updates. Not because it's a bad one, in fact it's slightly better than expected ( but tbh I expected little ). It's frustrating because it shows brief moments of competency and serious addressing of key issues, only to be followed by another change that completely borks the whole thing and undoes any good that was accomplished.

 

There are tons of examples of this so I'll just point to the two most obvious stand outs:

 

1. **Soulbeast Dolyak and moa stance.** Increasing the cool down on moa was the right decision as the primary problem with SB is too much survival from the boonspam. But then the balance team turns around and overbuffs the living crap out of Dolyak stance in such a way that completely undoes the sustain loss from Moa. So I am having a very hard time figuring out what specifically the balance team was trying to accomplish here. There just doesn't seem to be any consistent logic behind what they want Soulbeast to be.

 

 

2. **Steadfast Rejuvenation and shackling wave.** Revs have been asking for better sustain and we were totally willing to sacrifice sword offhand for it. So we got it...but oh boy that Steadfast. So first off, this trait should have replaced a renegade minor or something else that makes it actually slottable. Putting it on a grandmaster of a trait line that mostly no one takes is overzealous. And the fact that it was so severely bugged and untested to the point where it needed to be emergency disabled by the admin is just terrible. Rev is likely once again going to be low tier as a result of this blunder.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

Nerfs to Engi Elixir Trait was well needed. Mes took a hit finally after all the cheese builds that were out (Still not a good enough nerf). Boonbeast took a bit of a hit. All n all tho I'm just happy my power reaper build got a boost hehe.

[idolin.2831]

> @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> As nobody mention rev, I ll do. Increasing sword #4 is in my opinion a bad idea. 1s of cast time is really huge. I rather prefer having it nerfed by 20-33% that increasing it s cast time.

> (nerfing one of the few skills rev has because people are focusing on what they are doing instead of what the ennemy is doing....Let me guess, next patch Phase Traversal will get nerfed too)

 

Right now it's so clunky to use. I'm guessing the balance team want to promote counter play but sword 4 is the main burst skill - now it's more like a dodge bait and not a burst skill since it's so obvious. Also rev already has a little window of time to burst down the opponent in between the opponent's damage avoidance tool, it's even harder to cast this without being counter-attacked or interrupted.

 

Also this comes without a buff to anything else for power Rev except for Shiro F2, but even then it is still not worth keeping F2 up given how energy hungry Shiro already is. No buff to axe or shield or sustain. Steadfast Rejuvenation is bugged and on the Grandmaster tier of Retribution which nobody takes - if we do we'll give up the damage from Devastation.

[HeadCrowned.6834]

> @"Apokriphos.7042" said:

> Clearly Anet wants you to play condi mirage , boonbeast, spellbreaker, or druid.

 

Druid???? Haha wtf man.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

Soulbeast needed more nerfs. Dolyak stance is stupid.

 

Also LOL @ power mesmer being nerfed in every patch in the past year. Was a pretty niche, high skill ceiling build (talking about power mirage btw). Also, it's funny that the nerfs almost always target EVERYTHING but the damage itself (mantra of distraction, vigor uptime, jaunt, portal). I know most of the times it wasn't directly targeted with the nerfs but it's totally unusable gimmicky build now.

 

Interested in core guard changes, have to test it out later

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

When ever i watched streamers use portal in the past, very rarely would they drop part 2 after the 20 seconds mark anyway. What's the problem now?

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Apokriphos.7042" said:

> Reaper was nerfed terribly.

>

> Spectral trait removal destroyed what meager sustain the class had and will decimate the class even further in platinum ranked, where it's already considered "carried" when you manage to win.

>

> Loss of a stun break,

 

Well technically no, the necromancer didn't really lose a stun break. _Last gasp_ was proc'ing based on your health level while _reaper's protection_ never broke stun despite being an "on being disable" trait.

 

> lowered duration in spectral skills and loss of life force generation,

 

Yes spectral skills took a hit, LF gen as well but there is some clumsy change to increase LF gen from other sources. What's sure is that it will be harder to make use of being hit as a way to generate LF. Which mean that it's in line with the whole patch aiming at reducing this kind of proc (something that was asked by the PvP forum)

 

> loss of damage in 50% or more shroud, and now we have to trait it to get it back, for 10 seconds.

 

Technically it's a buff that reward smart rotation and shroud dancing.

 

> Terrible Focus 4 wasn't touched, foot in the grave wasn't touched, subpar utilities were not reworked, and now this will make reaper an even better target for focus fire at the start of a match.

 

Which doesn't really change anything to the situation up til now.

 

> Bonus: buffs to fear traits, which are useless in a spvp landscape full of stability. I am not sure the dev's play core necromancer or reaper at all after seeing this balance.

 

My guess is more that the dev try to encourage necromancer to use DM. It's clumsy and disregard totally the reason why players tend to not use this traitline but they probably estimated that to much defense was packed into SR and that there wasn't enough synergy between DM and the other lines. There is now some form of weak synergy between DM and the other line while SR defense have gone down, they will just take a "wait and see" stance and make adjustments in the next balance patch.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> When ever i watched streamers use portal in the past, very rarely would they drop part 2 after the 20 seconds mark anyway. What's the problem now?

 

I think the point of the Portal nerf is to destroy its abusive use as a universal get out of jail free card in solo Q.

 

In organized teams / streamed tournaments, you see portal being announced through voice chat "dropping portal" and often it is used as a quick route to let an entire team instantly rotate to cover two points at once. In this case, it's often used before 30 seconds because the entire point is "We need our mesmer to teleport over there and drop a portal for us NOW"

 

However in solo play, most mesmers were not actually using it to make hot team plays. They were dropping portal """somewhere""" and then hanging on to the exit for use as a ezmode instant escape hatch for whenever they screwed up. This is likely where the nerf was intended to touch. Making portal more of a team strategy skill ( which is what it should be ) rather than a out-button skill.

 

TL;DR I guarantee you will still see portal being played in ATs

 

[TorQ.7041]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > When ever i watched streamers use portal in the past, very rarely would they drop part 2 after the 20 seconds mark anyway. What's the problem now?

>

> I think the point of the Portal nerf is to destroy its abusive use as a universal get out of jail free card in solo Q.

>

> In organized teams / streamed tournaments, you see portal being announced through voice chat "dropping portal" and often it is used as a quick route to let an entire team instantly rotate to cover two points at once. In this case, it's often used before 30 seconds because the entire point is "We need our mesmer to teleport over there and drop a portal for us NOW"

>

> However in solo play, most mesmers were not actually using it to make hot team plays. They were dropping portal """somewhere""" and then hanging on to the exit for use as a ezmode instant escape hatch for whenever they screwed up. This is likely where the nerf was intended to touch. Making portal more of a team strategy skill ( which is what it should be ) rather than a out-button skill.

>

> TL;DR I guarantee you will still see portal being played in ATs

>

 

Yup. Agreed. I hated Condi mes. Made one n played it. It's so easy because of all the jail free skills I was basically able to play it ranked on the same level in 1 day. Any time I was in trouble basically pressed distort n go into portal. Bye bye I m safe lol.

 

Other instances me and a guardian won mid. An ele from opposing team then ran n went to our home to decap. Which is the correct play cos all his team is dead n I couldn't chase. Guess what. I already had a portol home. I just portaled back n sat there and he couldn't take it from me.

 

It's the stupidest thing ever. Eventually I just stopped playing mes even tho it was easier, it was just stuipd. 1 skill basically neglected the other guy from doing the correct play. There was no counter play. He couldn't have known I had a portal.

 

Other times I would fight by a ledge n just jaunt up and down so I couldn't be hit.

 

Not a fan of all the nerfs on this patch but portal and jaunt Nerf are basically the best 1s.

[foste.3098]

i'd wager mirage is still top of the line, with firebrand coming in as the second most powerful class, and soulbeast & holosmith sharing the 3rd spot. Everything else is somewhere under these 4 classes with ele being dead last.

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > I liked the removed elixir s passive on engi, now bad holos won't be hard carried by that as before at least, even tho the rest remained the same so...

> >

> > Full counter damage nerf was unnecessary, how many times it got nerfed already?

> > Next patch they will finally remove completely the damage.

> > SpB was balanced in my opinion.

> >

> > Soulbeast nerfs, but the new Dolyak stance it's stronger than before... maybe the longer cooldowns will open a more wide window for counterplay.

> >

> > Condi mirages nerfs, but if you see the notes actually power mirage was hit, and nothing about condis was even touched, apart that axes little insignificant changes.

> > Portal will probably be replaced maybe and i doubt condi mirage won't be meta anymore.

> >

> > Scrapper buffs seems weird, they removed the stab on demand from gyro usage trait, they buffed the dps, but holo is still superior as dps, so who knows, maybe someone will come out with an interesting build.

> >

> > Core guard seems received buffs to hammer, so it will be even more easy and brainless to play, but at least it's not too cancer.

> >

> > The other profession changes dunno.

>

> Core guard hammer changes were 100% a nerf.

 

Cd reduction. Only aoe damage nerfed, but single target is still there and hits hard as before, playing demolisher amulet i failed to dodge hammer 2 yesterday and i got blowed to 15% hp from 100%.

And core guard excels at plus one rotation damage dealer, so he is focused mainly on taking down single target and not much suited for team fight like holo could be.

 

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > I liked the removed elixir s passive on engi, now bad holos won't be hard carried by that as before at least, even tho the rest remained the same so...

> >

> > Full counter damage nerf was unnecessary, how many times it got nerfed already?

> > Next patch they will finally remove completely the damage.

> > SpB was balanced in my opinion.

> >

> > Soulbeast nerfs, but the new Dolyak stance it's stronger than before... maybe the longer cooldowns will open a more wide window for counterplay.

> >

> > Condi mirages nerfs, but if you see the notes actually power mirage was hit, and nothing about condis was even touched, apart that axes little insignificant changes.

> > Portal will probably be replaced maybe and i doubt condi mirage won't be meta anymore.

> >

> > Scrapper buffs seems weird, they removed the stab on demand from gyro usage trait, they buffed the dps, but holo is still superior as dps, so who knows, maybe someone will come out with an interesting build.

> >

> > Core guard seems received buffs to hammer, so it will be even more easy and brainless to play, but at least it's not too cancer.

> >

> > The other profession changes dunno.

>

> I play Holo... Not my main but I switch out for it when required.

>

> I think this is actually a buff for Holo... Before if it procs. U can't actually use any skills. A good player would just wait till it's gone n kill u since u r basically on 1 hit hp. Bad players would just keep attacking n blow their stuff then complain...

>

> With this update now u can use skills while having free hp. If u r about to die. Then insanely stealth and or aoe cc then run away.

 

I know what you mean, but it was so strong having double invuln.

Bad players where carried by it a lot, and not to mention the other 2 major traits are garbage and so there weren't many other options.

It's definitely a nerf, but the new passive elixir E is still the way to go and now after you made the engi use his active elixir s you know he can't be saved again by another one and so opens up more counterplay.

I play holo as well too sometimes so I know something about it.

Definitely good players won't notice much different and actually it will be a buff for them, but bad players used to yolo and spam during team fights because they had 2 escape tools will be punished hard.