Revenant changes 11th December

[ScottBroChill.3254]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> steadfast rejuvenation just got disabled by anet, appearently its extremely bugged right now.

 

Lol now I know why I went from unkillable before dinner with just having my upkeeps on to dying instantaneously after eating dinner. That was a fun 4 games at least.

[narcx.3570]

Real talk, Shackling Wave should just straight up delete people's accounts now... Because, man, if you still get hit with it after this change, I dunno what to tell you.

[DonArkanio.6419]

> @"idolin.2831" said:

> > @"DonArkanio.6419" said:

> > I don't really get what's the purpose of these changes to Revenant.

> >

> > 1. I understand why they nerfed OH Sword. Why do guys in PvE have to suffer?

> >

> > 2. I'm looking forward to seeing the OH Sword being reworked once again. We know that it can't be like this forever, this is a very poor design and a gap-filler for class.

> >

>

> I'm relatively new to rev but why does OH sword needs another rework? It's the reason why rev's good now in PvP and small scale WvW (maybe not so much anymore after the nerf) - wouldn't a buff to axe and shield promote better build diversity for power rev? If a rework on OH sword happens and it's no good I don't know what's Rev role in PvP anymore, unless there are buffs to other aspects to compensate.

>

> As for the nerf to sword 4, I'm curious to hear why ANet doesn't want to reduce the damage in PvP and WvW to not affect PvE (which imo is the more obvious solution), but instead doubles the cast time. I guess it can promote counter-play, but the thing is in PvP many other skills more or less serve to bait dodges for sword 4, like glint elite, shiro elite, elemental blast. As for the other sword skills, sword 5 is hard to land against decent players (who know to dodge when the rev ports in next to them - which is used sometimes to, again, bait dodges to land sword 4), sword 2 deals so little damage (in PvP), and sword 3 puts the rev right next to the opponent, which is in many cases quite suicidal. Sword 4's cast time now is even longer than the duration of a dodge - meaning the opponent will have time to avoid it even if the rev manages to bait the dodge.

>

> It might be better with quickness, but Rev's sources of quickness are Phase Traversal - which costs too much energy to use just to land sword 4, brutality - requires the rev to be switch to sword/sword from staff to get quickness - I've never liked this trait and AA seems to be much better for sustain, and Sigil of Agility - which again requires the rev to be on staff beforehand or swap legends to proc, but this one's actually not so bad (although in WvW the sigil only gives 1s of quickness :anguished: ). Plus boons are harder to maintain now, given the nerfs to concentration in Herald, Leadership runes, and the F2 rework (which was slightly buffed today except for Glint F2 - the elite spec's legend!!!).

>

> Lastly it might be an attempt to tone down power creeps across all classes - this I have no idea about since I only play Ele and Rev, and everyone knows where Ele stands in competitive game modes.

>

>

 

My problem with Revenant's OH Sword is the overall poor design of it. It doesn't provide anything imteresting to the playstyle of Rev like axe did on the release. It's just a straight gap-filler damage tool after its rework.

Don't get me wrong - I do like the fact that Sword in both hands can be used offensively. But not like this.

About the PvP. Doesn't it feel like Rev is relying on this OH Sword damage too much now? I understand your concerns but this is a reason why OH Sword needs its own fresh playstyle. With the delay on 4 with cc and teleport followed by nearly instant burst of damage it's just too similar to Axe. That's why in my opinion the OH Sword should be rethinked and made fresh.

I agree on the rest of things you said and I'm very curious to see what will ANet do with this. I AM, however, very happy to see changes made to other classes. Adding **non-crit system** to traits is a great idea. A little Scrapper is finally getting up. Let's see what's to come next.

[idolin.2831]

> @"DonArkanio.6419" said:

> > @"idolin.2831" said:

> > > @"DonArkanio.6419" said:

> > > I don't really get what's the purpose of these changes to Revenant.

> > >

> > > 1. I understand why they nerfed OH Sword. Why do guys in PvE have to suffer?

> > >

> > > 2. I'm looking forward to seeing the OH Sword being reworked once again. We know that it can't be like this forever, this is a very poor design and a gap-filler for class.

> > >

> >

> > I'm relatively new to rev but why does OH sword needs another rework? It's the reason why rev's good now in PvP and small scale WvW (maybe not so much anymore after the nerf) - wouldn't a buff to axe and shield promote better build diversity for power rev? If a rework on OH sword happens and it's no good I don't know what's Rev role in PvP anymore, unless there are buffs to other aspects to compensate.

> >

> > As for the nerf to sword 4, I'm curious to hear why ANet doesn't want to reduce the damage in PvP and WvW to not affect PvE (which imo is the more obvious solution), but instead doubles the cast time. I guess it can promote counter-play, but the thing is in PvP many other skills more or less serve to bait dodges for sword 4, like glint elite, shiro elite, elemental blast. As for the other sword skills, sword 5 is hard to land against decent players (who know to dodge when the rev ports in next to them - which is used sometimes to, again, bait dodges to land sword 4), sword 2 deals so little damage (in PvP), and sword 3 puts the rev right next to the opponent, which is in many cases quite suicidal. Sword 4's cast time now is even longer than the duration of a dodge - meaning the opponent will have time to avoid it even if the rev manages to bait the dodge.

> >

> > It might be better with quickness, but Rev's sources of quickness are Phase Traversal - which costs too much energy to use just to land sword 4, brutality - requires the rev to be switch to sword/sword from staff to get quickness - I've never liked this trait and AA seems to be much better for sustain, and Sigil of Agility - which again requires the rev to be on staff beforehand or swap legends to proc, but this one's actually not so bad (although in WvW the sigil only gives 1s of quickness :anguished: ). Plus boons are harder to maintain now, given the nerfs to concentration in Herald, Leadership runes, and the F2 rework (which was slightly buffed today except for Glint F2 - the elite spec's legend!!!).

> >

> > Lastly it might be an attempt to tone down power creeps across all classes - this I have no idea about since I only play Ele and Rev, and everyone knows where Ele stands in competitive game modes.

> >

> >

>

> My problem with Revenant's OH Sword is the overall poor design of it. It doesn't provide anything imteresting to the playstyle of Rev like axe did on the release. It's just a straight gap-filler damage tool after its rework.

> Don't get me wrong - I do like the fact that Sword in both hands can be used offensively. But not like this.

> About the PvP. Doesn't it feel like Rev is relying on this OH Sword damage too much now? I understand your concerns but this is a reason why OH Sword needs its own fresh playstyle. With the delay on 4 with cc and teleport followed by nearly instant burst of damage it's just too similar to Axe. That's why in my opinion the OH Sword should be rethinked and made fresh.

> I agree on the rest of things you said and I'm very curious to see what will ANet do with this. I AM, however, very happy to see changes made to other classes. Adding **non-crit system** to traits is a great idea. A little Scrapper is finally getting up. Let's see what's to come next.

 

That makes sense. I didn't play rev before the OH sword rework but I thought a block on sword 4 was really interesting. I guess to me OH sword was too good to not use, too good to make me not care about it not having a clear identity/being too similar to axe. Now that sword 4 is gutted I'll probably try axe again - I just tried the new sword 4 and it felt horrible, the nerf ruined the playstyle, the feeling for me.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Facet of Nature - Ventari feels great now. ~2.7k ticks (every 3s) in full Minstrel's with rice and no oil or stacks. Finally this skill feels worth it. True Nature feels better too. Tooltip's at like 1.2k per condition removed, without any modifiers, which is pretty sexy. I am happy. Spec needs more work but this was a step forward at least. Steadfast Rejuvenation change makes me feel inclined to play with Retribution instead of Invocation, but just having a 40e stunbreak in one legend is still painful if you don't have perma-stab in your comp.

[ethanzephyr.7298]


 

I want to channel the revenant from last patch.

[Sodiumsmotts.3890]

> @"Dragon.8762" said:

> After some slight testing, steadfast rejuvenation combined with renegades elite ability soulcleave's summit makes rev almost unkillable in a pve setting. It gives you like 8 stacks of rejuvenation. Add that with life steal from vul, assassins annihilation life steal, and life steal from soulcleave and you've got some insane regen.

>

> Also, thanks to the the new dwarven battle training trait you can have close to perma weakness on enemies when you combo it with darkrazors daring. Always giving you that extra 10% damage buff. These changes make rev into a really good solo pve class.

 

I literally can't even see this trait triggering in the combat log. Does it actually work?

[ethanzephyr.7298]

> @"Sodiumsmotts.3890" said:

> > @"Dragon.8762" said:

> > After some slight testing, steadfast rejuvenation combined with renegades elite ability soulcleave's summit makes rev almost unkillable in a pve setting. It gives you like 8 stacks of rejuvenation. Add that with life steal from vul, assassins annihilation life steal, and life steal from soulcleave and you've got some insane regen.

> >

> > Also, thanks to the the new dwarven battle training trait you can have close to perma weakness on enemies when you combo it with darkrazors daring. Always giving you that extra 10% damage buff. These changes make rev into a really good solo pve class.

>

> I literally can't even see this trait triggering in the combat log. Does it actually work?

 

It was disabled in the latest patch

[Sodiumsmotts.3890]

> @"ethanzephyr.7298" said:

> > @"Sodiumsmotts.3890" said:

> > > @"Dragon.8762" said:

> > > After some slight testing, steadfast rejuvenation combined with renegades elite ability soulcleave's summit makes rev almost unkillable in a pve setting. It gives you like 8 stacks of rejuvenation. Add that with life steal from vul, assassins annihilation life steal, and life steal from soulcleave and you've got some insane regen.

> > >

> > > Also, thanks to the the new dwarven battle training trait you can have close to perma weakness on enemies when you combo it with darkrazors daring. Always giving you that extra 10% damage buff. These changes make rev into a really good solo pve class.

> >

> > I literally can't even see this trait triggering in the combat log. Does it actually work?

>

> It was disabled in the latest patch

 

Ah cheers man, just got back from work, didn't see anything about that. Thanks! :disappointed:

[Blue.1207]

Offhand sword feels like.... Like... Remember when power zerker got Arc Divider nerfed? It feels like that. The wind up is crazy, but I guess you can bait dodges with it now though.... Which is neat I guess.

 

WHY WASN'T THIS SKILL SPLIT IN PVP/PVE?!?!?!?

[DanAlcedo.3281]

> @"CRrabbit.1284" said:

> Facet of Nature—Centaur: This skill's base healing per pulse has been increased from 272 to 471 at level 80, and its healing-power contribution has been increased by 363%.

> Legendary Centaur Stance: True Nature now heals for each condition that is removed, up to a maximum of 970 health per condition at level 80.

> This is a WoW for healing rev.

 

Because they nerfed Medi Scrappers heal output, this could actually make Heal Rev better in WvW.

 

Couldn’t test the numbers yet.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > @"CRrabbit.1284" said:

> > Facet of Nature—Centaur: This skill's base healing per pulse has been increased from 272 to 471 at level 80, and its healing-power contribution has been increased by 363%.

> > Legendary Centaur Stance: True Nature now heals for each condition that is removed, up to a maximum of 970 health per condition at level 80.

> > This is a WoW for healing rev.

>

> Because they nerfed Medi Scrappers heal output, this could actually make Heal Rev better in WvW.

>

> Couldn’t test the numbers yet.

 

I love this change so much. I think my highest tick was ~3k tonight on full Minstrel's with full healing infusions and 25 stacks of Life, and that was even without Bountiful Maintenance Oil. That is of course requires a lot of variables, but it feels so good with Draconic Echo. Swapping from Glint to Ventari I can hypothetically have 2k/s per target for 10 targets in a 600 radius for a period of time from just regen and FoN. The True Nature: Centaur change is also fantastic. I do wish they polished some core Ventari things, but it was definitely a good patch for healer Herald. My main quip is that with the facet being 100% worth it, it further pushes out Elevated Compassion's appeal, which to me just can't compete with Draconic Echo. I'm probably playing the wrong content for EC though.

[ParanoidKami.2867]

Sword 4 nerf was too much. It's only a problem doing too much damage with Glint. Any other build suffers from it as they won't be doing as much damage. I play a less high damage core build and my sword 4 only hits for 2-4k.

[vyncius.6105]

It's sad because it was nerfed too hard and f2 will never compensate that loss unless its energy free, but that will never happen. Also no shield changes, axe is the same as sword oh, but just with condi dmg, and here we end our oh weapon list. out of 3 only 1 is somewhat okayish (sword) for power, but its not enough to keep power rev viable in endgame pve content.

In pvp we had 1 good, balanced build, but now its dead. I agree sword 4 was op, but dmg nerfs woulda been enough, not kitten cast time nerf which now makes it clunky to use and very easy to dodge.

So for pve we have renegade, maybe heal rev will be a more played. And here it ends pve revenant viability.

As for pvp I think rev will still be good up to 1400 rating, but higher than that and we screwed by any other better player that can actually dodge 1 sec cast time cc.

R.I.P. revenant it was nice to play you for 2k hours, but now i'll swap to some other class.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > > @"CRrabbit.1284" said:

> > > Facet of Nature—Centaur: This skill's base healing per pulse has been increased from 272 to 471 at level 80, and its healing-power contribution has been increased by 363%.

> > > Legendary Centaur Stance: True Nature now heals for each condition that is removed, up to a maximum of 970 health per condition at level 80.

> > > This is a WoW for healing rev.

> >

> > Because they nerfed Medi Scrappers heal output, this could actually make Heal Rev better in WvW.

> >

> > Couldn’t test the numbers yet.

>

> I love this change so much. I think my highest tick was ~3k tonight on full Minstrel's with full healing infusions and 25 stacks of Life, and that was even without Bountiful Maintenance Oil. That is of course requires a lot of variables, but it feels so good with Draconic Echo. Swapping from Glint to Ventari I can hypothetically have 2k/s per target for 10 targets in a 600 radius for a period of time from just regen and FoN. The True Nature: Centaur change is also fantastic. I do wish they polished some core Ventari things, but it was definitely a good patch for healer Herald. My main quip is that with the facet being 100% worth it, it further pushes out Elevated Compassion's appeal, which to me just can't compete with Draconic Echo. I'm probably playing the wrong content for EC though.

 

3k with minstrel sounds good.

 

I currently run full cleric, cant wait to test it!

 

Maybe we can break the 3,5k barrier.

 

[Scar.1793]

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > @"Vrath.1754" said:

> > > Comments like the following from ANet confuse me:

> > > "Shackling Wave: The casting animation of this skill has been increased from just over 0.5 seconds to a little under 1 second to**_ allow for better counterplay. Added a visual indicator to the skill's warm-up animation_**."

> > >

> > > I always find it curious what ANet decides needs to have counter play and they way it is prioritized. There is so much cheese that has little or no counter play due to stealth or range or whatever, this is one of things that needed counter play with a high priority over the cheese players cant predict?

> >

> > Thief and Mesmer are Anet favorites, they will never nerf their cheesy and unskilled mechanics. The deadeye perma stealth or mirage with stealth, crazy burst, passive evades should be red flags to show you how pointless and unbalance the pvp in this game is. I left like half a year and the same problems are still here. Not even surprised tbh

>

> Lol, apparently you didn’t read the patch notes at all then, they hit Thief and Mesmer pretty good this patch, almost all Thief specs got hit hard in multiple areas, ie DJ is now Blockable, Lead Attacks got gutted on its up time and can’t stack ooc(which means no crazy burst out of Stealth/combat on unaware players), Vault can’t be used in conjunction with Shadowsteps(only reliable way to land it against skilled players).

>

>

 

Really good news then !

 

[Master Ketsu.4569]

I've said it many times I will say it again.

 

If they want to nerf sword 4 cast time without nerfing rev into trash tier....

 

All they had to do was put https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Duelist%27s_Preparation back at the start of the skill animation locked for at least 1/4 seconds before allowing you to chain it to shackling wave.

 

Until then, considering how much of a fiasco their attempts to buff Retribution was they should seriously consider completely reverting the Rev side of this latest balance patch. Not just revert sword 4 I mean revert everything. It was just a fuckup that did not in any way accomplish its attempted goals.

 

 

 

 

 

[zallesz.1650]

When are they going to fix Renegade Shortbow Skill2? When an enemy moves, only one arrow hits the enemy, and the other 3 are misses. Shortbow Skill3 is situational, its fine, but Skill2 needs some love.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

> @"zallesz.1650" said:

> When are they going to fix Renegade Shortbow Skill2? When an enemy moves, only one arrow hits the enemy, and the other 3 are misses. Shortbow Skill3 is situational, its fine, but Skill2 needs some love.

 

Balance team has proven many times that they give less than zero f**ks about renegade. No one should be in any way surprised that renegade was untouched this patch.

[LucianDK.8615]

be careful what you wish for, renegades, or you might get herald level attention too

[Buran.3796]

Very happy with the changes: most of them touch traits and skills that I never use and the sword #4 has no effect in gold, so everything remains the same.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

So does this mean power Herald is better off moving to Axe OH? Or does the damage difference still make OH Sword the better choice, despite the cast time increase?

[Shroud.2307]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> So does this mean power Herald is better off moving to Axe OH? Or does the damage difference still make OH Sword the better choice, despite the cast time increase?

 

I would say, speaking from a small scale WvW or PvP perspective, sword is still better. Deathstrike can still do a ton of damage and Shackling Wave isn't unusable, just much less reliable. The port from axe doesn't hit nearly as hard as Deathstrike and the CC is easier to dodge than Shackling Wave. But, no harm in giving it a try.

[CRrabbit.1284]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > > > @"CRrabbit.1284" said:

> > > > Facet of Nature—Centaur: This skill's base healing per pulse has been increased from 272 to 471 at level 80, and its healing-power contribution has been increased by 363%.

> > > > Legendary Centaur Stance: True Nature now heals for each condition that is removed, up to a maximum of 970 health per condition at level 80.

> > > > This is a WoW for healing rev.

> > >

> > > Because they nerfed Medi Scrappers heal output, this could actually make Heal Rev better in WvW.

> > >

> > > Couldn’t test the numbers yet.

> >

> > I love this change so much. I think my highest tick was ~3k tonight on full Minstrel's with full healing infusions and 25 stacks of Life, and that was even without Bountiful Maintenance Oil. That is of course requires a lot of variables, but it feels so good with Draconic Echo. Swapping from Glint to Ventari I can hypothetically have 2k/s per target for 10 targets in a 600 radius for a period of time from just regen and FoN. The True Nature: Centaur change is also fantastic. I do wish they polished some core Ventari things, but it was definitely a good patch for healer Herald. My main quip is that with the facet being 100% worth it, it further pushes out Elevated Compassion's appeal, which to me just can't compete with Draconic Echo. I'm probably playing the wrong content for EC though.

>

> 3k with minstrel sounds good.

>

> I currently run full cleric, cant wait to test it!

>

> Maybe we can break the 3,5k barrier.

>

 

Tested myself , it's absolutely OP now. Other popular healer such as Scrapper will never even think about those numbers. Only weakness is stability/stun break, but as long as your squad can arrange you a FB body guard (definitely worth it), you will be fine and carry the whole group's HP bar.

I am expecting it will get huge nerf bat next patch.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

> @"CRrabbit.1284" said:

> > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > > @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > > > > @"CRrabbit.1284" said:

> > > > > Facet of Nature—Centaur: This skill's base healing per pulse has been increased from 272 to 471 at level 80, and its healing-power contribution has been increased by 363%.

> > > > > Legendary Centaur Stance: True Nature now heals for each condition that is removed, up to a maximum of 970 health per condition at level 80.

> > > > > This is a WoW for healing rev.

> > > >

> > > > Because they nerfed Medi Scrappers heal output, this could actually make Heal Rev better in WvW.

> > > >

> > > > Couldn’t test the numbers yet.

> > >

> > > I love this change so much. I think my highest tick was ~3k tonight on full Minstrel's with full healing infusions and 25 stacks of Life, and that was even without Bountiful Maintenance Oil. That is of course requires a lot of variables, but it feels so good with Draconic Echo. Swapping from Glint to Ventari I can hypothetically have 2k/s per target for 10 targets in a 600 radius for a period of time from just regen and FoN. The True Nature: Centaur change is also fantastic. I do wish they polished some core Ventari things, but it was definitely a good patch for healer Herald. My main quip is that with the facet being 100% worth it, it further pushes out Elevated Compassion's appeal, which to me just can't compete with Draconic Echo. I'm probably playing the wrong content for EC though.

> >

> > 3k with minstrel sounds good.

> >

> > I currently run full cleric, cant wait to test it!

> >

> > Maybe we can break the 3,5k barrier.

> >

>

> Tested myself , it's absolutely OP now. Other popular healer such as Scrapper will never even think about those numbers. Only weakness is stability/stun break, but as long as your squad can arrange you a FB body guard (definitely worth it), you will be fine and carry the whole group's HP bar.

> I am expecting it will get huge nerf bat next patch.

 

I am really hoping it doesn't get nerfed, but maybe I'm just being selfish. Aren't the numbers pretty close to traited Soothing Mist? I feel like it helps validate my spot in a squad and makes up for the lack of stab (running Glint as secondary legend). I personally found the previous version pretty lackluster. This is the first change in a while that I've been super super stoked about.