Revenant changes 11th December

[Za Shaloc.3908]

At work right now so I can't test anything. How's Ventari Facet of Nature, numbers wise? Seems pretty significant. Excited to try it out with the new Steadfast Rejuvenation change.

[Kain Francois.4328]

Retribution now provides a 20% damage boost as long as Rev has a source of retal. Competes with Invo?

[LucianDK.8615]

> @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> > @"Ario.8964" said:

> > Would be nice if they'd buff the weapons that need it rather than just assuming everyone wants to play OH sword all the time but okay anet...

>

> Agreed, seriously, if you really want to start opening up diversity with all these weapon trait changes, give rev some actual choice on what they want to run in the offhand. It's been this way over a year now and I really still prefer my shield but these days... idk.

 

Seems like Anet is pretty set on fixed weapon sets for power and condition. At least power have choice in staff or hammer offset for different situations. Though I keep being at a loss to what role shield is for in pve, it certainly isnt power dps.

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> Did you factor in the increased damage from shiro F2 now?

 

I did not, however I am going to calculate it now. So currently with 25 might, food buffs, banner of strength, and empower allies since the scaling is only affected by power, the shrio f2 hits for 313. This can be done once every .25 seconds per player and affects 4 additional players to your self. So 313 *4 players * 4 times persecond / 2 because only spending roughly half your time in shiro = 2504 extra dps in a group setting. That is pretty good actually, the question is how often will it be procced, as it is very unlikely people will hit the boss instantly when the icd comes off cool-down. I can't really give a good answer to that as when dealing with icd's that small, just small delaysc can make a big difference in the long run. But if factoring that in on a best case scenario, and set realistic boons to 6 which is what was realistic before perma every boon chaos chrono's, I am guessing about 28k-29k for a solo benchmark and maybe up to 31k if accounting for shiro f2 in a group.

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"Kain Francois.4328" said:

> Retribution now provides a 20% damage boost as long as Rev has a source of retal. Competes with Invo?

 

Invo has 2 7% modifiers and a 20% crit modifier. They are both close but high retal uptime is probably the most difficult of those modifiers to maintain as you don't really have any good sources on your own and chaos chrono probably can't give it to you as easily anymore.

[vyncius.6105]

OH sword 4 nerf was needed, but I expected dmg nerfs, not cast time nerf, which is now pretty much kills pve herald. Shiro F2 buffs aren't bad, but nothing to really get excited about it. sPvP herald had only one viable build, and now its dead. F2 buffs dont compensate sword 4 nerf, just because IO have 3 upkeep cost. Good job Anet, you killed herald once again....

 

P.S. pls rework fkn renegade

[LucianDK.8615]

Chronos got a downsizing in boonshare btw

[Atamazon.7062]

I don't know how bad Sword 4 is in PvP, but why nerf it too in PvE ? What the fuck do they create PvE/PvP/WvW split for ?

 

If they can't make cast time of skill split between mode, then at least buff it damage in PvE to make it worth the longer cast time, power Rev damage is already low, no need to nerf it further

[Noha.3749]

Revenant healer new meta :p

Power Herald kinda.. well its fair. Both ups and downs.

Renegade = ?

 

[Spartacus.3192]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> F2 assassin is really strong now, considerable improved sustain

 

Could you explain to me how this works and the scaling/formula per hit please?

[LucianDK.8615]

> @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > F2 assassin is really strong now, considerable improved sustain

>

> Could you explain to me how this works and the scaling/formula per hit please?

 

I was speaking more from ingame experience. Look above in the thread from the comments by ArthurDent. But theres no tooltip numbers available ingame.

[Spartacus.3192]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > Did you factor in the increased damage from shiro F2 now?

>

> I did not, however I am going to calculate it now. So currently with 25 might, food buffs, banner of strength, and empower allies since the scaling is only affected by power, the shrio f2 hits for 313. This can be done once every .25 seconds per player and affects 4 additional players to your self. So 313 *4 players * 4 times persecond / 2 because only spending roughly half your time in shiro = 2504 extra dps in a group setting. That is pretty good actually, the question is how often will it be procced, as it is very unlikely people will hit the boss instantly when the icd comes off cool-down. I can't really give a good answer to that as when dealing with icd's that small, just small delaysc can make a big difference in the long run. But if factoring that in on a best case scenario, and set realistic boons to 6 which is what was realistic before perma every boon chaos chrono's, I am guessing about 28k-29k for a solo benchmark and maybe up to 31k if accounting for shiro f2 in a group.

 

Are you sure its every 0.25 sec? The wiki says every 0.5 sec, so the dps contribution is half of what you calculated.

 

(Non updated wiki page)

The Legendary Assassin Stance version gives life stealing, with a 0.5 second internal cooldown:

Damage.png Life Steal Damage: 40 (0.0333)?

Healing.png Life Steal Healing: 85 (0.035)?

 

[Shroud.2307]

When I read the patch notes I wasn't bothered by the sounds of the change to Shackling Wave. After some fights in WvW, I strongly dislike it. Feels like I'm using Gravedigger on my Necro and a lot of times it just refuses to begin the animation because my target moves through me even if I'm turning with them.

 

I agree with many of the others that offhand sword needed some nerfs but this isn't what I had in mind. I feel like it's almost mandatory to use Phase Traversal first before using Shackling Wave now. But that's quite the Energy thirsty combo.

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > > Did you factor in the increased damage from shiro F2 now?

> >

> > I did not, however I am going to calculate it now. So currently with 25 might, food buffs, banner of strength, and empower allies since the scaling is only affected by power, the shrio f2 hits for 313. This can be done once every .25 seconds per player and affects 4 additional players to your self. So 313 *4 players * 4 times persecond / 2 because only spending roughly half your time in shiro = 2504 extra dps in a group setting. That is pretty good actually, the question is how often will it be procced, as it is very unlikely people will hit the boss instantly when the icd comes off cool-down. I can't really give a good answer to that as when dealing with icd's that small, just small delaysc can make a big difference in the long run. But if factoring that in on a best case scenario, and set realistic boons to 6 which is what was realistic before perma every boon chaos chrono's, I am guessing about 28k-29k for a solo benchmark and maybe up to 31k if accounting for shiro f2 in a group.

>

> Are you sure its every 0.25 sec? The wiki says every 0.5 sec, so the dps contribution is half of what you calculated.

>

> (Non updated wiki page)

> The Legendary Assassin Stance version gives life stealing, with a 0.5 second internal cooldown:

> Damage.png Life Steal Damage: 40 (0.0333)?

> Healing.png Life Steal Healing: 85 (0.035)?

>

 

I you are right, I confused the .25 sec cast time of true nature with an icd. So I guess take my number and half it, feels bad.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

> @"WraithOfStealth.1624" said:

> [bUG] Steadfast Rejuvenation - This trait alongside its new function also retains its former "heal when struck", but now with 0 ICD. @ 900 healing power this is 620 health/hit. Broken as hell.

>

> The strongest change imo is Dwarven Battle Stance: +10% dmg to weakened foes. Disabling a foe (Any CC) applies weakness. (5s duration, no ICD) That's insane for my build at least.

 

They should fix the bug but increase the base healing. It's equivalent to adrenal health except as a grandmaster that is far more situational.

 

The only reason to take Steadfast right now is that it's busted.

 

Edit: The trait now seems to be not working at all?

 

 

[Dragon.8762]

After some slight testing, steadfast rejuvenation combined with renegades elite ability soulcleave's summit makes rev almost unkillable in a pve setting. It gives you like 8 stacks of rejuvenation. Add that with life steal from vul, assassins annihilation life steal, and life steal from soulcleave and you've got some insane regen.

 

Also, thanks to the the new dwarven battle training trait you can have close to perma weakness on enemies when you combo it with darkrazors daring. Always giving you that extra 10% damage buff. These changes make rev into a really good solo pve class.

[LucianDK.8615]

> @"Dragon.8762" said:

> After some slight testing, steadfast rejuvenation combined with renegades elite ability soulcleave's summit makes rev almost unkillable in a pve setting. It gives you like 8 stacks of rejuvenation. Add that with life steal from vul, assassins annihilation life steal, and life steal from soulcleave and you've got some insane regen.

>

> Also, thanks to the the new dwarven battle training trait you can have close to perma weakness on enemies when you combo it with darkrazors daring. Always giving you that extra 10% damage buff. These changes make rev into a really good solo pve class.

 

would that be with a power or condi build?

[Scar.1793]

> @"Vrath.1754" said:

> Comments like the following from ANet confuse me:

> "Shackling Wave: The casting animation of this skill has been increased from just over 0.5 seconds to a little under 1 second to**_ allow for better counterplay. Added a visual indicator to the skill's warm-up animation_**."

>

> I always find it curious what ANet decides needs to have counter play and they way it is prioritized. There is so much cheese that has little or no counter play due to stealth or range or whatever, this is one of things that needed counter play with a high priority over the cheese players cant predict?

 

Thief and Mesmer are Anet favorites, they will never nerf their cheesy and unskilled mechanics. The deadeye perma stealth or mirage with stealth, crazy burst, passive evades should be red flags to show you how pointless and unbalance the pvp in this game is. I left like half a year and the same problems are still here. Not even surprised tbh

[LucianDK.8615]

Theres much crying among the mesmers right now.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> > @"Vrath.1754" said:

> > Comments like the following from ANet confuse me:

> > "Shackling Wave: The casting animation of this skill has been increased from just over 0.5 seconds to a little under 1 second to**_ allow for better counterplay. Added a visual indicator to the skill's warm-up animation_**."

> >

> > I always find it curious what ANet decides needs to have counter play and they way it is prioritized. There is so much cheese that has little or no counter play due to stealth or range or whatever, this is one of things that needed counter play with a high priority over the cheese players cant predict?

>

> Thief and Mesmer are Anet favorites, they will never nerf their cheesy and unskilled mechanics. The deadeye perma stealth or mirage with stealth, crazy burst, passive evades should be red flags to show you how pointless and unbalance the pvp in this game is. I left like half a year and the same problems are still here. Not even surprised tbh

 

They just killed mesmer off as a support by removing nearly all its support and boon shar. Renegade will take its place with firebrand wich means no more druid or chrono steal renegades and firebrands raid spots

[LucianDK.8615]

steadfast rejuvenation just got disabled by anet, appearently its extremely bugged right now.

[vyncius.6105]

> @"Dragon.8762" said:

> After some slight testing, steadfast rejuvenation combined with renegades elite ability soulcleave's summit makes rev almost unkillable in a pve setting. It gives you like 8 stacks of rejuvenation. Add that with life steal from vul, assassins annihilation life steal, and life steal from soulcleave and you've got some insane regen.

>

> Also, thanks to the the new dwarven battle training trait you can have close to perma weakness on enemies when you combo it with darkrazors daring. Always giving you that extra 10% damage buff. These changes make rev into a really good solo pve class.

 

no one gives a damn about solo pve, any stupid ass build is viable here.

[DonArkanio.6419]

I don't really get what's the purpose of these changes to Revenant.

 

1. I understand why they nerfed OH Sword. Why do guys in PvE have to suffer?

 

2. I'm looking forward to seeing the OH Sword being reworked once again. We know that it can't be like this forever, this is a very poor design and a gap-filler for class.

 

3. I don't get why does Revenant get buffs on damage to Retribution if it's the only traitline which provides some tankiness (or atleast is meant to). Why make it compete with Destruction and Invocation? We already have might on these, let Jalis be the tanky one for once, come on.

 

4. Why are Herald and Renegade nearly untouched? I get that Renegade is a spec to fill the gap in class but I don't think that this spec has anything more to it than dropping your skills and forgeting about them.

 

5. What about stunbreak on Ventari and a normal, healthy stunbreak on Jalis?

 

6. Why is every single class overloaded with stuff that is more or less useful? Why not simplify it so you don't have to add 0.25s here, give initial cast condi cleanse there, load some skills with unreasonable amount of stability. There are too many mechanics in game to make it all work (and I'm not talking about difficulty level). Just admit it so we can do something about it.

 

7. Finally, what's with the issues people keep addressing that don't get any response? I don't see people whining about skills not dealing enough damage yet we do get unreasonable flat damage buffs (I'm talking about all classes). I see people that want equality among classes. Why not give it to us? I don't see any steps being made to solve the problem of a total class inequality.

 

There's a big lack of understanding in Balance Team. Also a huge lack of communication.

 

 

 

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> > @"Vrath.1754" said:

> > Comments like the following from ANet confuse me:

> > "Shackling Wave: The casting animation of this skill has been increased from just over 0.5 seconds to a little under 1 second to**_ allow for better counterplay. Added a visual indicator to the skill's warm-up animation_**."

> >

> > I always find it curious what ANet decides needs to have counter play and they way it is prioritized. There is so much cheese that has little or no counter play due to stealth or range or whatever, this is one of things that needed counter play with a high priority over the cheese players cant predict?

>

> Thief and Mesmer are Anet favorites, they will never nerf their cheesy and unskilled mechanics. The deadeye perma stealth or mirage with stealth, crazy burst, passive evades should be red flags to show you how pointless and unbalance the pvp in this game is. I left like half a year and the same problems are still here. Not even surprised tbh

 

Lol, apparently you didn’t read the patch notes at all then, they hit Thief and Mesmer pretty good this patch, almost all Thief specs got hit hard in multiple areas, ie DJ is now Blockable, Lead Attacks got gutted on its up time and can’t stack ooc(which means no crazy burst out of Stealth/combat on unaware players), Vault can’t be used in conjunction with Shadowsteps(only reliable way to land it against skilled players).

 

 

[idolin.2831]

> @"DonArkanio.6419" said:

> I don't really get what's the purpose of these changes to Revenant.

>

> 1. I understand why they nerfed OH Sword. Why do guys in PvE have to suffer?

>

> 2. I'm looking forward to seeing the OH Sword being reworked once again. We know that it can't be like this forever, this is a very poor design and a gap-filler for class.

>

 

I'm relatively new to rev but why does OH sword needs another rework? It's the reason why rev's good now in PvP and small scale WvW (maybe not so much anymore after the nerf) - wouldn't a buff to axe and shield promote better build diversity for power rev? If a rework on OH sword happens and it's no good I don't know what's Rev role in PvP anymore, unless there are buffs to other aspects to compensate.

 

As for the nerf to sword 4, I'm curious to hear why ANet doesn't want to reduce the damage in PvP and WvW to not affect PvE (which imo is the more obvious solution), but instead doubles the cast time. I guess it can promote counter-play, but the thing is in PvP many other skills more or less serve to bait dodges for sword 4, like glint elite, shiro elite, elemental blast. As for the other sword skills, sword 5 is hard to land against decent players (who know to dodge when the rev ports in next to them - which is used sometimes to, again, bait dodges to land sword 4), sword 2 deals so little damage (in PvP), and sword 3 puts the rev right next to the opponent, which is in many cases quite suicidal. Sword 4's cast time now is even longer than the duration of a dodge - meaning the opponent will have time to avoid it even if the rev manages to bait the dodge.

 

It might be better with quickness, but Rev's sources of quickness are Phase Traversal - which costs too much energy to use just to land sword 4, brutality - requires the rev to be switch to sword/sword from staff to get quickness - I've never liked this trait and AA seems to be much better for sustain, and Sigil of Agility - which again requires the rev to be on staff beforehand or swap legends to proc, but this one's actually not so bad (although in WvW the sigil only gives 1s of quickness :anguished: ). Plus boons are harder to maintain now, given the nerfs to concentration in Herald, Leadership runes, and the F2 rework (which was slightly buffed today except for Glint F2 - the elite spec's legend!!!).

 

Lastly it might be an attempt to tone down power creeps across all classes - this I have no idea about since I only play Ele and Rev, and everyone knows where Ele stands in competitive game modes.