Dec 11th Shackling Wave change.

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > Hopefully Offhand sword stay bad so Staff can get a buff. I want to rock a two handers melee weapon and GS is never going to happen since it's too OP.

>

> Lol, what does it even mean that GS is too OP? Since it doesn't exist, it could be made to be **anything**.

 

Never going to happen. Shiro is baseline and would be too OP for a melee greatsword.

[Milan.9035]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > > Hopefully Offhand sword stay bad so Staff can get a buff. I want to rock a two handers melee weapon and GS is never going to happen since it's too OP.

> >

> > Lol, what does it even mean that GS is too OP? Since it doesn't exist, it could be made to be **anything**.

>

> Never going to happen. Shiro is baseline and would be too OP for a melee greatsword.

 

You are right. Can you even imagine centaur with GS, would be one shotting everything left and right. Lol

[Buran.3796]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > Starting to think axe may be the only alternative now. Shield is still even more useless.

>

> I object to this idea solely because with Rev I finally found a profession that allowed me to dual-wield identical weapons and not suck at killing things.

 

I known that this game is far from being a simulator, but take in consideration that historically dual hand wielding is essentially bullshido and also the sword is a very overrated weapon: is a side weapon, the same which happens with handguns. In war the main weapon were always the spear, the bow, the shields and maces. All that fancy dancing with dual wielding swords you saw and read along your life in different media (movies, tv shows, cartoons, comics, books... ) is nothing but lies.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > > Starting to think axe may be the only alternative now. Shield is still even more useless.

> >

> > I object to this idea solely because with Rev I finally found a profession that allowed me to dual-wield identical weapons and not suck at killing things.

>

> I known that this game is far from being a simulator, but take in consideration that historically dual hand wielding is essentially bullshido and also the sword is a very overrated weapon: is a side weapon, the same which happens with handguns. In war the main weapon were always the spear, the bow, the shields and maces. All that fancy dancing with dual wielding swords you saw and read along your life in different media (movies, tv shows, cartoons, comics, books... ) is nothing but lies.

 

Agreed. But I'm ok with a 10ft tall talking feline wearing heavy armor teleporting back and forth from the mists, it's not too far a stretch to imagine him swinging two swords as the same time B)

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > > Starting to think axe may be the only alternative now. Shield is still even more useless.

> >

> > I object to this idea solely because with Rev I finally found a profession that allowed me to dual-wield identical weapons and not suck at killing things.

>

> I known that this game is far from being a simulator, but take in consideration that historically dual hand wielding is essentially bullshido and also the sword is a very overrated weapon: is a side weapon, the same which happens with handguns. In war the main weapon were always the spear, the bow, the shields and maces. All that fancy dancing with dual wielding swords you saw and read along your life in different media (movies, tv shows, cartoons, comics, books... ) is nothing but lies.

 

QQ why you had to destroy my fantasy like that!? QQ

[DeadlySynz.3471]

I don't like the change, it makes it feel buggy and glitchy at best. It basically obliterates any fluidity. Would be better off if they just returned the cast time back to normal and reduce the damage instead. But as we know, they never reverse changes, so it's here to stay.

 

This is very similar to the necro shade cast time change awhile back, making it feel glitchy. Even to this day that change still causes some enemies in WvW to freeze up if someone drops a shade and mashes the buttons. I wonder if the same thing would happen with shackling wave change

[Buran.3796]

By the way, was said before but doesn't hurt to repeat it again: ANet didn't change the cast time of sword # from 0.5 to 1 second; they changed it from 0.5 to 1.25~1.30 seconds, which is HAMMER SPEED CAST territory. They should rework the sword again to give us the old block, because as currently works the only use that the weapon has is the 600 unit range shadow step for mobility.

[Spartacus.3192]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> By the way, was said before but doesn't hurt to repeat it again: ANet didn't change the cast time of sword # from 0.5 to 1 second; they changed it from 0.5 to 1.25~1.30 seconds, which is HAMMER SPEED CAST territory. They should rework the sword again to give us the old block, because as currently works the only use that the weapon has is the 600 unit range shadow step for mobility.

 

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" Sorry for tagging you on this but can you confirm if Sword 4 cast time really is over 1 sec as mentioned above?

 

Thanks

[Scar.1793]

There is a real strange logic going on with the balance team.

 

They say Herald is underperforming in PvE:

 

- buffs a few passives and call it a day

- Listen to crybabies who die in 2shots (Phase Traversal+Shackling Wave+Death Strike) because they come in WvW naked or with zerk gear. Meanwhile thieves, mesmers and spellbreakers still enjoy a low risk high reward gameplay.

- Don’t bother to split SW changes that clearly would impact the rotation and dps in PvE.

 

I don’t think even Blizzard had this kind of wtf-logic with their patch notes. Even now.

[ethanzephyr.7298]

Our swords have a history of jank. I actively avoid combo fields when I use sword 2, since it turns my wacky energy bolts into even wackier energy bolts.

[narcx.3570]

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> - Listen to crybabies who die in 2shots (Phase Traversal+Shackling Wave+Death Strike) because they come in WvW naked or with zerk gear. Meanwhile thieves, mesmers and spellbreakers still enjoy a low risk high reward gameplay.

 

Like, Anet has always said that they balance Revenant with high high end pvp in mind, which is how they've defended their damage nerfs in the past, saying that, "While this way not be a problem in mid-level play, it's doing too much damage in skilled hands," or whatever.

 

But the SW nerf spits all over that, since literally nobody above the lowest tiers of gold was getting hit with Shackling Wave in the first place. Totally agree that this was clearly a nerf catering to bad WvW roamers getting one shot by a PT+SW while they try to spam stealth and run away, but now it's leaked into all levels of the power Revenant's game. It's really heartbreaking when you see people playing a cheese build get their way. :bleep_bloop:

[Buran.3796]

WvW roaming should be left to stealth users, anyway. Is the most broken skill in the game and players which lack stealth should ditch those maps until the whole population falls to 2-3 thiefs/mez/ranger x server plus a huge empty map of nothingness. Even NPCs should leave...

[Zenith.7301]

Clearly 17k backstabs from deadeyes with no telegraph whatsoever in builds that allow them obscene amounts of stealth time (so predicition doesn't matter remotely) are fine but god forbid Revenant have some hard hitting skills without massive drawbacks.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

Still feels horrible to use. My Rev spends all of his time in the mists running around with Hammer/Staff now, and my swords only get equipped when I'm out doing dailies and need to defend myself vs roamers.

 

I'd be fine with turning down the damage to get our old cast animation speed back, or, yknow, you could just change those damage values for WvW/ PvP and revert the cast time change, unless you've been flooded with mail from fractal/raid bosses complaining they were getting 1-shot by Rev sword 4 =/

[DonArkanio.6419]

What I'd suggest to ANet would be to once again rework OH Sword. We know it's an OH Axe on steroids. Maybe bring back #4 Block and make #5 less Axe'y.

[narcx.3570]

> @"DonArkanio.6419" said:

> What I'd suggest to ANet would be to once again rework OH Sword. We know it's an OH Axe on steroids. Maybe bring back #4 Block and make #5 less Axe'y.

 

If anything, they should rework axe. Axe 4 is terrrrrrible--like worst skill in the game terrible--and it would end everyone complaining that the two weapons are so similar (even though they aren't.)

[DonArkanio.6419]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"DonArkanio.6419" said:

> > What I'd suggest to ANet would be to once again rework OH Sword. We know it's an OH Axe on steroids. Maybe bring back #4 Block and make #5 less Axe'y.

>

> If anything, they should rework axe. Axe 4 is terrrrrrible--like worst skill in the game terrible--and it would end everyone complaining that the two weapons are so similar (even though they aren't.)

 

 

Well, before OH Sword got reworked, it was the Axe people used 24/7. Axe is a great weapon and I love both its animations and effects. Overall "_problem_" with Revenant iż that It's not OP as some classes tend to be. I like it because Rev is readable in combat and some delays aren't hurting anyone. I don't think being able to insta-cast everything is so cool, this might sound silly but I love GW's animations and the more, the better (for me).

 

About the similarities - well, they are too similar.

- Axe #4 is a Shadowstep with 2-step damage (Chills)

- Axe #5 is a movement-impairing tool - locks your targets - pull-thing

 

- Sword #4 is a movement-impairing tool - locks your targets for the #5 blow - snare

- Sword #5 is a Shadowstep with 2-step damage (also Chills)

 

I don't want to argue but these look similar if not nearly identical to me.

 

Just make them special - OH Sword was very weird before update but I get what they were going for - isolating the target. I liked it but the execution of the concept was very poor.

[narcx.3570]

> @"DonArkanio.6419" said:

> About the similarities - well, they are too similar.

> - Axe #4 is a Shadowstep with 2-step damage (Chills)

> - Axe #5 is a movement-impairing tool - locks your targets - pull-thing

>

> - Sword #4 is a movement-impairing tool - locks your targets for the #5 blow - snare

> - Sword #5 is a Shadowstep with 2-step damage (also Chills)

>

> I don't want to argue but these look similar if not nearly identical to me.

>

 

With axe's two skills you have a near unusable (in PvP/WvW) mobility skill, soft cc, hard cc, and rift which is super good for zoning. Which makes Axe basically a supplemental condi-dps weapon, a zoning weapon, or an extra hard cc option. I rule out it's mobility because it is literally unusable against anyone even somewhat decent at the game. The only time it hits/works is if a) somebody hasn't seen axe in so long that they forgot it's unblockable, or b) they let it hit on purpose to cause you to trigger and get hit by every trap/shade skill/sigil on the ground between yourself and the target.

 

With sword's two skills you gain soft cc, two huge power spike skills (although they will basically never land against anyone good, so it's they're more for baiting dodges), and what is arguably one of the top mobility skills in the game.

 

So for me, axe is all about the ranged poke and hard cc... Whereas sword is about mobility and combo skills to either bait dodges or punish people who are out of them. If axe 4 was usable, they'd be a a lot more similar, which is why I say they should rework axe4 if anything, since out of the 4 skills it's the one that's 100% terrible.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"DonArkanio.6419" said:

> > What I'd suggest to ANet would be to once again rework OH Sword. We know it's an OH Axe on steroids. Maybe bring back #4 Block and make #5 less Axe'y.

>

> If anything, they should rework axe. Axe 4 is terrrrrrible--like worst skill in the game terrible--and it would end everyone complaining that the two weapons are so similar (even though they aren't.)

 

Axe 4 is fantastic! Only change it needs IMO is to make it still shadowstep you if it gets dodged or if you are blinded.

[Catchyfx.5768]

I would be very careful to wanted rework..you know how it can end..

[meri.9187]

Honestly I like axe and think it's nowhere near as terrible as many people are making it out to be; however, there are many ways the weapon could be improved and I'll suggest a few here. **Obviously I don't want all these changes to be put in the game**, just gonna parrot a few suggestions to put it on par with sword as a hybrid condition/power weapon and the utility offhand of rev. As with most things I suggest, even adding one of these improvements might be enough to improve the weapon significantly.

 

**Frigid Blitz**: This is a worse version of Deathstrike with the only good thing being that it's unblockable.

 

Make the teleport an evade frame. Might be stupid considering how many evade frames sword/shiro rev already has. However, unlike other shadowsteps, Frigid Blitz behaves in that the revenant gets affected by whatever AoEs are in its way between the revenant and where the shadowstep occurs. Considering that Deathstrike is a straight up guaranteed port forward, Frigid Blitz falls behind majorly here.

 

Improve projectile speed by 100%.

 

If the axe hits your target, mark the target for 3 seconds instead of automatically moving to that target. Create a flip-over skill as the second part of Frigid Blitz that allows you to teleport to your target and deal heavy damage.

 

Increase the range to 1200.

 

Replace slow with immobilize for 1.5 seconds on anyone the axe passes through.

 

**Temporal Rift**: This skill is solid and very good for crowd control in a larger group. Needs less changes than Frigid Blitz.

 

Add a boon to any **allies** standing in the rift when it expires. 2 seconds of either resistance or alacrity fit the most thematically, although resistance especially might be too rewarding. This, however, keeps with the theme of Mallyx and the condition revenant, and alacrity fits the skill's name.

 

Increase damage slightly (20%).

 

Increase the range to 1200.