reaper was weak already before and you ruined it farther. pvp ok but pve totally useless

[Phoenix the One.4071]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > "PVP ok" =) nice joke you have there.

>

> Reapers are very strong in spvp now.

 

Are you thinking scourge? Usually reapers and elementalists are free kills are just tanking posing no threat :) but I might be wrong here, and then I would like to be enlighten, since it is tempting to roll back on my Necromancer.. (I most admit this game got some interesting professions since I keep bounching back and forth)

[Draco.9480]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > @"Apokriphos.7042" said:

> > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > > > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > > > > > "PVP ok" =) nice joke you have there.

> > > > >

> > > > > Reapers are very strong in spvp now.

> > > >

> > > > This is definitely untrue in high tier pvp.

> > >

> > > If you truly think that you are bad at pvp.

> > > Reapers are very strong now, they are team fighters and still need a bit of help when focused but their ability to pressure and swing mid fights is phenomenal.

> >

> > Sure. Unless the enemy team puts a target on your head. Then you get tunneled immediately with your lack of defensive CDs. If you don't have a fb babysitting you, you lose to every meta class

>

> A typical response from a bad player not understanding they are playing a ROLE playing game.

 

how any of this has anything to do with his argument that reaper isn't that good in pvp. you can platinum 1-3 sure but above that i doubt you can as a reaper.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> Personally, I more miss the might on Gluttony, which is an overlooked nerf in PvE cuz druids, but not having all that extra Might gen definitely adds some time to your solo Qadim lamp clear.

 

1 stack per weapon swap is not worth shedding a tear over. Gluttony's Might stack was worthless because of the crazy limit they put on it to prevent infinite loops with Blighter's Boon (something a traditional ICD would have done just fine).

 

It's actually better now than it was with that proc.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

I soloq so generally get a mix of decent and horrible players. In the latter case you have to step up and get out of the predestined cleave reaper role. In that case you're generally focused into oblivion. So coming from a solo player who rolls the dice, this patch has weakened us. But hey, each to their own opinion.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > @"Apokriphos.7042" said:

> > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > > > "PVP ok" =) nice joke you have there.

> > >

> > > Reapers are very strong in spvp now.

> >

> > This is definitely untrue in high tier pvp.

>

> If you truly think that you are bad at pvp.

> Reapers are very strong now, they are team fighters and still need a bit of help when focused but their ability to pressure and swing mid fights is phenomenal.

 

Great. I love this post. So why did a friend of mine plus me win 6 games in a row, both playing core necro, against reapers and scourges?

 

Reaper was in a good spot before the most recent needs, but right now I think it's almost unplayable (well I'm not so much into spvp, more roamer in wvw)

Everyone has just more damage and more sustain right now.

Even in zerg fights, where reaper finally got some niche plays, it's gotten worse now.

Back to spamming scourges, no other necro spec allowed.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > @"Apokriphos.7042" said:

> > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > > > > "PVP ok" =) nice joke you have there.

> > > >

> > > > Reapers are very strong in spvp now.

> > >

> > > This is definitely untrue in high tier pvp.

> >

> > If you truly think that you are bad at pvp.

> > Reapers are very strong now, they are team fighters and still need a bit of help when focused but their ability to pressure and swing mid fights is phenomenal.

>

> Great. I love this post. So why did a friend of mine plus me win 6 games in a row, both playing core necro, against reapers and scourges?

>

> Reaper was in a good spot before the most recent needs, but right now I think it's almost unplayable (well I'm not so much into spvp, more roamer in wvw)

> Everyone has just more damage and more sustain right now.

> Even in zerg fights, where reaper finally got some niche plays, it's gotten worse now.

> Back to spamming scourges, no other necro spec allowed.

 

I have a better win rate on core necro than reaper at the moment.

[Anchoku.8142]

I, too, have difficulty understanding this statement in the patch notes: "Spectral Mastery was removed due to how its functionality overlapped with what spectral skills already did, and spectral skills themselves have received several enhancements to make them better as stand-alone utilities."

 

Does that mean Arenanet is going to get rid of...

Signets of Suffering?

Master of Corruption?

3 different minion traits?

Vampiric Rituals?

Augury of Death?

Sadistic Searing?

All weapon ICD reduction traits?

 

Arenanet is effectively saying, "This type of skill (Spectral) will no longer have a supporting trait like every other type of 6 - 0 skills because we do not like them, anymore. If you must use them, some have received small changes to partially compensate for the loss of Spectral Mastery."

 

The loss of 20% CD reduction and 20% duration increase for selecting that trait over Vital Persistence or Fear of Death just tells me that breaking something that worked but was not as popular as VP was more important than fixing something that does not work.

 

And while I am at it...

Vital Persistence - What kind of shroud skill is this, now? Can Necro take heals through shroud like the forum has been asking for? No, this change looks a lot like encouraging Necromancers to be _out_ of shroud when a heal comes.

 

Are Necro's supposed to use shroud only for defense absorbing a telegraphed hit with it and exit as if it were a bad blocking skill?

[Amaranthe.3578]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > A typical response from a bad player not understanding they are playing a ROLE playing game.

> > >

> > > Indeed, in role playing, being a slasher from an horror movie is really a strong role. On another hand, I guess the ones who play a mirage are bound to have quite a weak presence.

> >

> > Uhhh...the role here is a glass canon, pretty typical in this types of games. I guess youre new.

>

> That was irony. But guess what you want.

 

You mean sarcasm? youre terrible at it.

[Patrick.2987]

> @"Draco.9480" said:

> > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > > @"Apokriphos.7042" said:

> > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > > > > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > > > > > > "PVP ok" =) nice joke you have there.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Reapers are very strong in spvp now.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is definitely untrue in high tier pvp.

> > > >

> > > > If you truly think that you are bad at pvp.

> > > > Reapers are very strong now, they are team fighters and still need a bit of help when focused but their ability to pressure and swing mid fights is phenomenal.

> > >

> > > Sure. Unless the enemy team puts a target on your head. Then you get tunneled immediately with your lack of defensive CDs. If you don't have a fb babysitting you, you lose to every meta class

> >

> > A typical response from a bad player not understanding they are playing a ROLE playing game.

>

> how any of this has anything to do with his argument that reaper isn't that good in pvp. you can platinum 1-3 sure but above that i doubt you can as a reaper.

 

Get gud.

[Draco.9480]

> @"Patrick.2987" said:

> > @"Draco.9480" said:

> > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > > > @"Apokriphos.7042" said:

> > > > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

> > > > > > > > "PVP ok" =) nice joke you have there.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Reapers are very strong in spvp now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is definitely untrue in high tier pvp.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you truly think that you are bad at pvp.

> > > > > Reapers are very strong now, they are team fighters and still need a bit of help when focused but their ability to pressure and swing mid fights is phenomenal.

> > > >

> > > > Sure. Unless the enemy team puts a target on your head. Then you get tunneled immediately with your lack of defensive CDs. If you don't have a fb babysitting you, you lose to every meta class

> > >

> > > A typical response from a bad player not understanding they are playing a ROLE playing game.

> >

> > how any of this has anything to do with his argument that reaper isn't that good in pvp. you can platinum 1-3 sure but above that i doubt you can as a reaper.

>

> Get gud.

 

another smart!@ss

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> I, too, have difficulty understanding this statement in the patch notes: "Spectral Mastery was removed due to how its functionality overlapped with what spectral skills already did, and spectral skills themselves have received several enhancements to make them better as stand-alone utilities."

> Arenanet is effectively saying, "This type of skill (Spectral) will no longer have a supporting trait like every other type of 6 - 0 skills because we do not like them, anymore. If you must use them, some have received small changes to partially compensate for the loss of Spectral Mastery."

 

That's not what they meant. What they meant is every spectral skill other than wall was about generating lifeforce. Spectral Mastery just added more lifeforce generation to skills that already had lots of lifeforce generation. Which was rather redundant. Moreover it idiot proofed lifeforce management, particularly in the case Spectral Grasp in that Spectral Mastery turned Spectral Grasp into a "click this button to get a quarter of your life force."

 

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > I, too, have difficulty understanding this statement in the patch notes: "Spectral Mastery was removed due to how its functionality overlapped with what spectral skills already did, and spectral skills themselves have received several enhancements to make them better as stand-alone utilities."

> > Arenanet is effectively saying, "This type of skill (Spectral) will no longer have a supporting trait like every other type of 6 - 0 skills because we do not like them, anymore. If you must use them, some have received small changes to partially compensate for the loss of Spectral Mastery."

>

> That's not what they meant. What they meant is every spectral skill other than wall was about generating lifeforce. Spectral Mastery just added more lifeforce generation to skills that already had lots of lifeforce generation. Which was rather redundant. Moreover it idiot proofed lifeforce management, particularly in the case Spectral Grasp in that Spectral Mastery turned Spectral Grasp into a "click this button to get a quarter of your life force."

"spectral skills themselves have received several enhancements to make them better as stand-alone utilities"

 

SG: not changed at all, but trait removed -> nerf

SA: not changed at all, but trait removed -> nerf

SR: nerfed due to fear cooldown, removed LF generation, shortened duration, reduced protection uptime

SW: a grotesque mix of buffs and nerfs (cooldown reduced, uptime left at base value, LF gen on hit removed, LF gen on condi added, stunbreak removed, cooldown reset fixed)

 

All in all: Rework attempt failed badly!

 

SW is okay now, the other 3 skills are horribly underpowered considering their huge cooldowns and the fact that these skills are the baseline for necro sustain.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > I, too, have difficulty understanding this statement in the patch notes: "Spectral Mastery was removed due to how its functionality overlapped with what spectral skills already did, and spectral skills themselves have received several enhancements to make them better as stand-alone utilities."

> > > Arenanet is effectively saying, "This type of skill (Spectral) will no longer have a supporting trait like every other type of 6 - 0 skills because we do not like them, anymore. If you must use them, some have received small changes to partially compensate for the loss of Spectral Mastery."

> >

> > That's not what they meant. What they meant is every spectral skill other than wall was about generating lifeforce. Spectral Mastery just added more lifeforce generation to skills that already had lots of lifeforce generation. Which was rather redundant. Moreover it idiot proofed lifeforce management, particularly in the case Spectral Grasp in that Spectral Mastery turned Spectral Grasp into a "click this button to get a quarter of your life force."

> "spectral skills themselves have received several enhancements to make them better as stand-alone utilities"

>

> SG: not changed at all, but trait removed -> nerf

> SA: not changed at all, but trait removed -> nerf

> SR: nerfed due to fear cooldown, removed LF generation, shortened duration, reduced protection uptime

> SW: a grotesque mix of buffs and nerfs (cooldown reduced, uptime left at base value, LF gen on hit removed, LF gen on condi added, stunbreak removed, cooldown reset fixed)

>

> All in all: Rework attempt failed badly!

>

> SW is okay now, the other 3 skills are horribly underpowered considering their huge cooldowns and the fact that these skills are the baseline for necro sustain.

 

Oh good heavens, Spectral Armor was a extremely potent skill without needing Spectral Mastery, potent enough to get used on the majority of necro builds throughout the history of the game regardless of whether said build had SM.

 

Spectral Walk got buffed. The new spectral walk means that you can run it without having to waste another utility slot on condi clear, this makes the skill much more desirable to slot, as it's effectively a condi clear + mobility juke + life force generation all rolled into a single skill, and on a more reasonable cooldown now too. It still stunbreaks.

 

Spectral Grasp is perfectly fine without the trait, the extra 5% lifeforce from SM was meaningless next to the ludicrousness that is 15% LF per target struck. SM's duration increase on SG's chill was completely meaningless in practice.

 

 

 

[Sigmoid.7082]

What part of SW lost a stunbreak? SW still breaks stun and return never had one?

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > > I, too, have difficulty understanding this statement in the patch notes: "Spectral Mastery was removed due to how its functionality overlapped with what spectral skills already did, and spectral skills themselves have received several enhancements to make them better as stand-alone utilities."

> > > > Arenanet is effectively saying, "This type of skill (Spectral) will no longer have a supporting trait like every other type of 6 - 0 skills because we do not like them, anymore. If you must use them, some have received small changes to partially compensate for the loss of Spectral Mastery."

> > >

> > > That's not what they meant. What they meant is every spectral skill other than wall was about generating lifeforce. Spectral Mastery just added more lifeforce generation to skills that already had lots of lifeforce generation. Which was rather redundant. Moreover it idiot proofed lifeforce management, particularly in the case Spectral Grasp in that Spectral Mastery turned Spectral Grasp into a "click this button to get a quarter of your life force."

> > "spectral skills themselves have received several enhancements to make them better as stand-alone utilities"

> >

> > SG: not changed at all, but trait removed -> nerf

> > SA: not changed at all, but trait removed -> nerf

> > SR: nerfed due to fear cooldown, removed LF generation, shortened duration, reduced protection uptime

> > SW: a grotesque mix of buffs and nerfs (cooldown reduced, uptime left at base value, LF gen on hit removed, LF gen on condi added, stunbreak removed, cooldown reset fixed)

> >

> > All in all: Rework attempt failed badly!

> >

> > SW is okay now, the other 3 skills are horribly underpowered considering their huge cooldowns and the fact that these skills are the baseline for necro sustain.

>

> Oh good heavens, Spectral Armor was a extremely potent skill without needing Spectral Mastery, potent enough to get used on the majority of necro builds throughout the history of the game regardless of whether said build had SM.

>

> Spectral Walk got buffed. The new spectral walk means that you can run it without having to waste another utility slot on condi clear, this makes the skill much more desirable to slot, as it's effectively a condi clear + mobility juke + life force generation all rolled into a single skill, and on a more reasonable cooldown now too. It still stunbreaks.

>

> Spectral Grasp is perfectly fine without the trait, the extra 5% lifeforce from SM was meaningless next to the ludicrousness that is 15% LF per target struck. SM's duration increase on SG's chill was completely meaningless in practice.

>

>

>

Life Force generation is not my complaint. Spectral skills are Necromancer's set of pseudo mobility and control effects and is a protection source. Granted, we can all take Reaper's Protection and Death Magic for another source of Protection. However, availability of Spectral skills aside from Walk were all reduced, unless you planned not to trait them.

 

Traited with Spectral Mastery...

* Walk went from 12 sec with 40 sec cool down to 10 sec with 40 sec cool down with 1 condi cleans per 2 sec -> 28 sec down time vs 30 sec with a condi cleanse is a buff

* Wall went from almost 10 sec with 32 sec cool down to 8 sec duration and 40 sec ring with 1.5 sec proc ICD -> 22 sec down time vs 32 sec circle seems even

* Armor went from almost 10 sec with 32 sec cool down to 8 sec duration and 40 sec cool down -> 22 sec down time vs 32 sec feels like a nerf

* Grasp went from 40 sec traited to 50 seconds -> looks like a nerf, too

* Lich went from 24 sec active and 144 sec cool down to 20 seconds and 150 sec cool down -> 120 sec down time vs 130 sec

* Last Gasp is no longer there to take advantage of the -20% cool down and +20% duration, either.

 

Also, Gluttony now adding a tenth more LF from nearby deaths instead of might feels pretty bad and Vital Persisence got a huge nerf for the second time.

 

When I read the first few patch notes they seemed like a solid buff but the removal of Spectral Mastery more than half way down the list and its replacement with what used to be the Strength of the Undead minor took me a while to wrap my head around. Overall, Arenanet shaved the goodness off of Soul Reaper. So, congratulations, Soul Reaping is less of a must-have trait line and they took it out of power builds. The lack of crit potential on auto-proc's in Spite and Soul Reaping also trimmed dps.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> So, congratulations, Soul Reaping is less of a must-have trait line.

Yeah no one would complain about SR becoming a not-must-have traitline, IF this was achived by buffing other traitlines to SR levels, but not converting SR to trash tier too.

 

Besides that: SR is still a must have, as it's still superior to BM and DM in terms of sustain (13k base LF alone makes you a freekill to everyone!) AND offers solid DPS increases as well.

 

All these core necro videos against noobs showing up atm. are misleading. Core is still trash tier. Everyone who runs a serious PvP build will shut down core necro with ease (I do it on a daily basis - never lost to one! NEVER!) due to lack of stability and stunbreaks in shroud. And here comes the fun part: if you want some minimal (and underpowered) stab on core... which traitline do you have to select? Hint: It's not BM oder DM!

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > So, congratulations, Soul Reaping is less of a must-have trait line.

> Yeah no one would complain about SR becoming a not-must-have traitline, IF this was achived by buffing other traitlines to SR levels, but not converting SR to trash tier too.

>

> Besides that: SR is still a must have, as it's still superior to BM and DM in terms of sustain (13k base LF alone makes you a freekill to everyone!) AND offers solid DPS increases as well.

>

> All these core videos showing up atm. are misleading. Core is still trash tier. Everyone who runs a serious PvP build will shut down core necro with ease (I do it on a daily basis - never lost to one! NEVER!) due to lack of stability and stunbreaks in shroud. And here comes the fun part: if you want some minimal (and underpowered) stab on core... which traitline do you have to select? Hint: It's not BM oder DM!

 

Oh, I agree. We will still have to take SR because BM is a support trait line and DM still does nothing but support minions or delay the downed state at the cost of significant dps while screwing with aggro control in PvE.

 

I think the intent of the SR changes was to trim damage, burst potential, and sustain out of core Necro, Reaper, and power-Scourge.

[RisenHowl.2419]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > So, congratulations, Soul Reaping is less of a must-have trait line.

> > Yeah no one would complain about SR becoming a not-must-have traitline, IF this was achived by buffing other traitlines to SR levels, but not converting SR to trash tier too.

> >

> > Besides that: SR is still a must have, as it's still superior to BM and DM in terms of sustain (13k base LF alone makes you a freekill to everyone!) AND offers solid DPS increases as well.

> >

> > All these core videos showing up atm. are misleading. Core is still trash tier. Everyone who runs a serious PvP build will shut down core necro with ease (I do it on a daily basis - never lost to one! NEVER!) due to lack of stability and stunbreaks in shroud. And here comes the fun part: if you want some minimal (and underpowered) stab on core... which traitline do you have to select? Hint: It's not BM oder DM!

>

> Oh, I agree. We will still have to take SR because BM is a support trait line and DM still does nothing but support minions or delay the downed state at the cost of significant dps while screwing with aggro control in PvE.

>

> I think the intent of the SR changes was to trim damage, burst potential, and sustain out of core Necro, Reaper, and power-Scourge.

 

The SR changes did nothing to burst potential, but the no crit procs did. And what build do you run that has sustain and can generate downs without help?

[Patrick.2987]

Reaper so bad ppl do not even reach legend with it. Wait what?