Hitman.5829 Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"gimo.3281" said: > > @"Hitman.5829" said: > > > @"gimo.3281" said: > > > > @"Hitman.5829" said: > > > > > @"zionophir.6845" said: > > > > > that means get the 75% of FC damage in PvE and subtract 50% of FC damage in PvE. > > > > I know that not everyone has the gift of math and I am not judging, so for clarification going from 75% to 25% is not 75% - 25% = 50% > > > > Let X be the PvE damage, then 75% of PvE is: > > > > * (X)(0.75) > > > > And 25% of PvE is: > > > > * (X)(0.25) > > > > > > > > Therefore, the damage lost going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is: > > > > * [(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100% > > > > * = -66.66% > > > > > > > > So, going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is not 50%, it is 66.66% > > > > > > > > > check the history of FC if it was split game mode wise [PvE ~ PvP/WvW]. then go from there to get the numbers. > > > > > > > > mmmm did you read my previous posts? I posted them with exact nerf damage > > > > The calculated TOTAL damage nerfed FC since launch is -83% > > > > > > > > [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66) - 1] * 100% = - 83% > > > > > > > > * October 17 (Reduce damage by 12.5% in PvP and WvW only.) > > > > * November 7 (Increased recharge from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW only.) This is equivalent to a 33% damage reduction (8/12 -1)*100% = 33% > > > > * March 27 (Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.) > > > > * December 11 (reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE.) (-66.66% damage nerf) > > > > > > > > And just to add as a curiosity note: Do you know by how much damage they will have to buff FC to bring it back to its original version? > > > > By 497% YES THAT IS CORRECT! > > > > Percentages are not something to be mess with! That is why when you lose money in the stock market, it is very difficult to earn back what you lost. > > > > How did I calculate 497% here is the equation: > > > > let X be the percent damage increase to bring FC back to normal, then: > > > > [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66)(1 + X) - 1] * 100% =0% > > > > > > > > Solving for X gives 4.97 which is 497% > > > > > > lel. don't justify your bork bork math. how many is lost when you go from .75 to .25? even a gradeschooler knows that. > > > > Well, tell us Einstein. "How many" is lost when you go from .75 to .25? > > ask a gradeschooler for the answer. sorry, im busy typing something on my notepad.. > > (after 5 mins) > > k. to ease your burden coz you might be mistaken for a pedo when you go to a gradeschoolers' school. say pve damage is 1. > > so from .75 of 1 to .25 of 1. so do that easy process, so easy that even a plastic bottle can give you 5 cents, and you should know the answer.... Well, I just hope you are not working as a cashier or your boss might fire you for incompetence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimo.3281 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"Hitman.5829" said: > > @"gimo.3281" said: > > > @"Hitman.5829" said: > > > > @"gimo.3281" said: > > > > > @"Hitman.5829" said: > > > > > > @"zionophir.6845" said: > > > > > > that means get the 75% of FC damage in PvE and subtract 50% of FC damage in PvE. > > > > > I know that not everyone has the gift of math and I am not judging, so for clarification going from 75% to 25% is not 75% - 25% = 50% > > > > > Let X be the PvE damage, then 75% of PvE is: > > > > > * (X)(0.75) > > > > > And 25% of PvE is: > > > > > * (X)(0.25) > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, the damage lost going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is: > > > > > * [(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100% > > > > > * = -66.66% > > > > > > > > > > So, going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is not 50%, it is 66.66% > > > > > > > > > > > check the history of FC if it was split game mode wise [PvE ~ PvP/WvW]. then go from there to get the numbers. > > > > > > > > > > mmmm did you read my previous posts? I posted them with exact nerf damage > > > > > The calculated TOTAL damage nerfed FC since launch is -83% > > > > > > > > > > [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66) - 1] * 100% = - 83% > > > > > > > > > > * October 17 (Reduce damage by 12.5% in PvP and WvW only.) > > > > > * November 7 (Increased recharge from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW only.) This is equivalent to a 33% damage reduction (8/12 -1)*100% = 33% > > > > > * March 27 (Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.) > > > > > * December 11 (reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE.) (-66.66% damage nerf) > > > > > > > > > > And just to add as a curiosity note: Do you know by how much damage they will have to buff FC to bring it back to its original version? > > > > > By 497% YES THAT IS CORRECT! > > > > > Percentages are not something to be mess with! That is why when you lose money in the stock market, it is very difficult to earn back what you lost. > > > > > How did I calculate 497% here is the equation: > > > > > let X be the percent damage increase to bring FC back to normal, then: > > > > > [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66)(1 + X) - 1] * 100% =0% > > > > > > > > > > Solving for X gives 4.97 which is 497% > > > > > > > > lel. don't justify your bork bork math. how many is lost when you go from .75 to .25? even a gradeschooler knows that. > > > > > > Well, tell us Einstein. "How many" is lost when you go from .75 to .25? > > > > ask a gradeschooler for the answer. sorry, im busy typing something on my notepad.. > > > > (after 5 mins) > > > > k. to ease your burden coz you might be mistaken for a pedo when you go to a gradeschoolers' school. say pve damage is 1. > > > > so from .75 of 1 to .25 of 1. so do that easy process, so easy that even a plastic bottle can give you 5 cents, and you should know the answer.... > > Well, I just hope you are not working as a cashier or your boss might fire you for incompetence! and you claim that you don't understand the update... and you had the f@cking balls to "explain" what you don't understand? what's that bruv? if you don't understand something, that means you can't explain it. and anything that comes out of your mouth, provided that the two cases mentioned is established, which is attested by your own words, is bork bork. you even added the pvp mods+theotherupdates+therecentupdates and equated pve damage to pvp? what kind of hocuspocus is that? is that even math? or some sh@t like loose bowel? yeah.. do you want an effin mirror? you're already pwned when i saw your bork bork math at the 1st of this thread. pretty sure that people are just playing with your bork borkness and has already laughed at your competence in effin gradeschool mathematics.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said: > > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said: > > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said: > > > > > > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic? > > > > > > > > > > With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else. > > > > > > > > its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off. > > > > > > As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage. > > > > Anet wanted it to be a skill used for defensive purpose only > > that is a hell of a statement, got anything to back that up? The damage loss now being equal to a dagger AA.So atm you only pop it for its invuln capability,getting boons/ripping boons and adren hp,not to actually deal the damage anymore as you could before the nerf.So yeah i do think they want it to be used as a defensive skill where we need to rely more on our burst/weap skills for our damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus.7194 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said: > > > > > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > > > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said: > > > > > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said: > > > > > > > > > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off. > > > > > > > > > > > > As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage. > > > > > > > > > > Anet wanted it to be a skill used for defensive purpose only > > > > > > > > that is a hell of a statement, got anything to back that up? > > > > > > Anet patch notes: “FC has different uses in competitive game modes compared to PvE.” They did not say it out right here, but they nerfed it’s damage by 75%. It is crystal clear that they are eluding to FC to be a dps skill in PvE and block/CC in PvP. > > > > If it were a defensive skill they'd have upped the evade, the length of time the counter attack is waiting. Or something along those lines, not lengthening the CC. Lengthening the CC is an offensive thing. What they think the skill is in competitive modes is something to stop your enemy and start a counteroffensive, but the problem is that with the amount of stability and stun breaks the CC is meaningless. So the short CC to disrupt the enemy with damage was the better answer because of the meta we're currently in, and the CC will probably end up doing nothing. > > Okay then. Let’s remove the block and CC and make it only deal damage (it will be nearly useless). Again, clearly Anet wants the skills in PvP to be used as a block and CC (call it whatever you want). Is the change warranted? Abosolutey. > > You can sit here and try to spin all the stories you want about how the damage of FC is essential. It is not true and Anet also does not agree. And honestly, it does not impact SB viability. um w0t. 1.) if it did just damage why exactly would it be useless? I can't tell you how many times I've turned a fight when someone gets greedy and goes for a kill and takes a big FC and it gives me enough time to push pressure when they start freaking out. I would GLADLY take the damage on FC and drop all the ancillary benefits. 2.) They might want it to be a block but that's not what it is. It's a burst skill, it is supposed to do heavy damage like every single other burst skill in the game, without that component it is next to worthless. The idea that an extra 1 sec of daze somehow makes up for losing 75% damage is laughable, anyone who's played any competitive anything as a spellbreaker knows the interrupt matters not the daze. 3.) You think a 75% change is warranted?? That pretty much tells me everything I need to know about you. Mirages when they were 1 shotting people for 30k didn't deserve a 75% nerf, next to nothing ever ever does, if you think something does then you're way too reactionary and are prone to kneejerk responses. 4.) I'm sure glad you substantiated your assertion that the damage doesn't matter with facts and not just tried to state your opinion as fact and back it up with "and Anet agrees". ArenaNet does a ton of stuff that doesn't make a lot of sense so acting like they're daddy and always right is just silly. 5.) > does not impact spellbreaker viability, right. Spellbreakers already weren't terribly represented in higher tier pvp or wvw to begin with now they're an absolute ghosts, I did about 10 matches today and I think I saw 2 spellbreakers the whole time. Lemme ask you something, why would someone bring a spellbreaker now? What exactly are they good at? Damage sponges? Nope. Damage dealers? Nope. Boon removal? Nope. Boon application? Nope. High mobility? Not really. CC application? Not really again. We have no role anymore; we can't really remove boons, we can't really punish attacks, we're okay at point control but other classes are better. Would this have initially ruined the spec? Nope, it would have crippled it. But with years worth of other subsequent nerfs it very much killed it this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 > @"Atticus.7194" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said: > > > > > > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > > > > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said: > > > > > > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said: > > > > > > > > > > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet wanted it to be a skill used for defensive purpose only > > > > > > > > > > that is a hell of a statement, got anything to back that up? > > > > > > > > Anet patch notes: “FC has different uses in competitive game modes compared to PvE.” They did not say it out right here, but they nerfed it’s damage by 75%. It is crystal clear that they are eluding to FC to be a dps skill in PvE and block/CC in PvP. > > > > > > If it were a defensive skill they'd have upped the evade, the length of time the counter attack is waiting. Or something along those lines, not lengthening the CC. Lengthening the CC is an offensive thing. What they think the skill is in competitive modes is something to stop your enemy and start a counteroffensive, but the problem is that with the amount of stability and stun breaks the CC is meaningless. So the short CC to disrupt the enemy with damage was the better answer because of the meta we're currently in, and the CC will probably end up doing nothing. > > > > Okay then. Let’s remove the block and CC and make it only deal damage (it will be nearly useless). Again, clearly Anet wants the skills in PvP to be used as a block and CC (call it whatever you want). Is the change warranted? Abosolutey. > > > > You can sit here and try to spin all the stories you want about how the damage of FC is essential. It is not true and Anet also does not agree. And honestly, it does not impact SB viability. > > um w0t. > > 1.) if it did just damage why exactly would it be useless? I can't tell you how many times I've turned a fight when someone gets greedy and goes for a kill and takes a big FC and it gives me enough time to push pressure when they start freaking out. I would GLADLY take the damage on FC and drop all the ancillary benefits. > > 2.) They might want it to be a block but that's not what it is. It's a burst skill, it is supposed to do heavy damage like every single other burst skill in the game, without that component it is next to worthless. The idea that an extra 1 sec of daze somehow makes up for losing 75% damage is laughable, anyone who's played any competitive anything as a spellbreaker knows the interrupt matters not the daze. > > 3.) You think a 75% change is warranted?? That pretty much tells me everything I need to know about you. Mirages when they were 1 shotting people for 30k didn't deserve a 75% nerf, next to nothing ever ever does, if you think something does then you're way too reactionary and are prone to kneejerk responses. > > 4.) I'm sure glad you substantiated your assertion that the damage doesn't matter with facts and not just tried to state your opinion as fact and back it up with "and Anet agrees". ArenaNet does a ton of stuff that doesn't make a lot of sense so acting like they're daddy and always right is just silly. > > 5.) > does not impact spellbreaker viability, right. Spellbreakers already weren't terribly represented in higher tier pvp or wvw to begin with now they're an absolute ghosts, I did about 10 matches today and I think I saw 2 spellbreakers the whole time. > > Lemme ask you something, why would someone bring a spellbreaker now? What exactly are they good at? Damage sponges? Nope. Damage dealers? Nope. Boon removal? Nope. Boon application? Nope. High mobility? Not really. CC application? Not really again. We have no role anymore; we can't really remove boons, we can't really punish attacks, we're okay at point control but other classes are better. > > Would this have initially ruined the spec? Nope, it would have crippled it. But with years worth of other subsequent nerfs it very much killed it this time around. > What the hell are bumbling about? I hate quoting myself, but: “SB viability is not hanging on FC damage. If you think, you are either being ignorant or hypocrite.” This whole what SB brings to the table, has not changed with this patch. It is not like it was mucho dps before and now it sucks. If you think SB is underperforming, FC damage has very little to do with that. Dishonorable argument mention, “burst skill.” A specific skill being a part of a specific category does not mean they all provide dps or heal (or otherwise). The fact that it is a burst skill does not by default make it a high damage skill. Skills are not balanced based off “names” but “functionality.” You would think this would be quite obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus.7194 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"Atticus.7194" said: > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said: > > > > > > > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > > > > > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said: > > > > > > > > > > > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet wanted it to be a skill used for defensive purpose only > > > > > > > > > > > > that is a hell of a statement, got anything to back that up? > > > > > > > > > > Anet patch notes: “FC has different uses in competitive game modes compared to PvE.” They did not say it out right here, but they nerfed it’s damage by 75%. It is crystal clear that they are eluding to FC to be a dps skill in PvE and block/CC in PvP. > > > > > > > > If it were a defensive skill they'd have upped the evade, the length of time the counter attack is waiting. Or something along those lines, not lengthening the CC. Lengthening the CC is an offensive thing. What they think the skill is in competitive modes is something to stop your enemy and start a counteroffensive, but the problem is that with the amount of stability and stun breaks the CC is meaningless. So the short CC to disrupt the enemy with damage was the better answer because of the meta we're currently in, and the CC will probably end up doing nothing. > > > > > > Okay then. Let’s remove the block and CC and make it only deal damage (it will be nearly useless). Again, clearly Anet wants the skills in PvP to be used as a block and CC (call it whatever you want). Is the change warranted? Abosolutey. > > > > > > You can sit here and try to spin all the stories you want about how the damage of FC is essential. It is not true and Anet also does not agree. And honestly, it does not impact SB viability. > > > > um w0t. > > > > 1.) if it did just damage why exactly would it be useless? I can't tell you how many times I've turned a fight when someone gets greedy and goes for a kill and takes a big FC and it gives me enough time to push pressure when they start freaking out. I would GLADLY take the damage on FC and drop all the ancillary benefits. > > > > 2.) They might want it to be a block but that's not what it is. It's a burst skill, it is supposed to do heavy damage like every single other burst skill in the game, without that component it is next to worthless. The idea that an extra 1 sec of daze somehow makes up for losing 75% damage is laughable, anyone who's played any competitive anything as a spellbreaker knows the interrupt matters not the daze. > > > > 3.) You think a 75% change is warranted?? That pretty much tells me everything I need to know about you. Mirages when they were 1 shotting people for 30k didn't deserve a 75% nerf, next to nothing ever ever does, if you think something does then you're way too reactionary and are prone to kneejerk responses. > > > > 4.) I'm sure glad you substantiated your assertion that the damage doesn't matter with facts and not just tried to state your opinion as fact and back it up with "and Anet agrees". ArenaNet does a ton of stuff that doesn't make a lot of sense so acting like they're daddy and always right is just silly. > > > > 5.) > does not impact spellbreaker viability, right. Spellbreakers already weren't terribly represented in higher tier pvp or wvw to begin with now they're an absolute ghosts, I did about 10 matches today and I think I saw 2 spellbreakers the whole time. > > > > Lemme ask you something, why would someone bring a spellbreaker now? What exactly are they good at? Damage sponges? Nope. Damage dealers? Nope. Boon removal? Nope. Boon application? Nope. High mobility? Not really. CC application? Not really again. We have no role anymore; we can't really remove boons, we can't really punish attacks, we're okay at point control but other classes are better. > > > > Would this have initially ruined the spec? Nope, it would have crippled it. But with years worth of other subsequent nerfs it very much killed it this time around. > > > > What the hell are bumbling about? I hate quoting myself, but: “SB viability is not hanging on FC damage. If you think, you are either being ignorant or hypocrite.” This whole what SB brings to the table, has not changed with this patch. It is not like it was mucho dps before and now it sucks. If you think SB is underperforming, FC damage has very little to do with that. > > Dishonorable argument mention, “burst skill.” A specific skill being a part of a specific category does not mean they all provide dps or heal (or otherwise). The fact that it is a burst skill does not by default make it a high damage skill. Skills are not balanced based off “names” but “functionality.” You would think this would be quite obvious. Spotted the PvE player. You act like we're talking about spellbreaker damage from a DPS meters perspective when in fact to no one's surprise but yours an aoe 5-6k spike is VERY important in PvP. Hell I can't tell you how many times I've been fighting on a point against multiple opponents and caught one of them off guard with a FC hit while they were engaging with someone else and that has been enough for them to finish them off. That's just one basic example of the myriad times FC damage has meant a TON, and frankly the fact you don't realize this makes me wonder what exactly you think FC is supposed to do? Really, what do you think it's purpose is? Do you think it's just an aoe interrupt? Just a means of stacking adrenal health? Resetting burst CDs? What? Cause all of those are nice but they are by no means nice enough to be THE class defining mechanic of spellbreaker. Really? Burst skills don't have to do high damage? That's why we have 3 grandmaster talents to increase their damage? But I digress, if that's the case can you tell me of a single burst skill that isn't built for high damage aside from FC? I'll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButterPeanut.9746 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Let's not overplay the important of skill type in terms of doing increased damage. FC damage nerf was harsh, but if you are going to argue for an increase it should NOT be because it is a burst skill. Of all of our burst skills, only axe, LB, and rifle do increased damage based on the amount of adrenaline consumed. GS, hammer, mace, and sword have different benefits from increased adrenaline consumption. The concept of adrenaline gain and consumption levels is what defines a burst skill, not the fact that it "does high damage". That being said, I agree that FC should have some of its damage put back. However, the mechanism for that IMO should be in the Revenge Counter trait. This trait has the "revenge" concept for condi classes by copying conditions onto the enemy, but it really doesn't have much on the power side. 20% increased damage when compared to what magebane offers is nothing. It should be a higher increase, or even better, it should do something like increasing the damage based on the attack that was absorbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eme.2018 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 @"gimo.3281" 0.5 equals to 0.75 * 2/3 (in other words if 0.75 is the 100% then 66.6% is 0.5) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyHaxor.4052 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 > @"Atticus.7194" said: > Lemme ask you something, why would someone bring a spellbreaker now? What exactly are they good at? Damage sponges? Nope. Damage dealers? Nope. Boon removal? Nope. Boon application? Nope. High mobility? Not really. CC application? Not really again. We have no role anymore; we can't really remove boons, we can't really punish attacks, we're okay at point control but other classes are better. > > Would this have initially ruined the spec? Nope, it would have crippled it. But with years worth of other subsequent nerfs it very much killed it this time around. > Ok dude, where are you getting that you dont do damage? what build are you running??? are you still playing defense dagger?? greatsword, axe, rampage all do insane damage. You dont have very much CC?? Bulls charge? shield bash? FULL COUNTER?? rampage?? You dont have high mobility?? You can get from spawn on eternal colliseum, halfway to far node with gs 3 and gs 5.. not to mention you have bulls charge and rampage (are you noticing a trend here?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Haired Savage.5430 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 > @"DonkeyHaxor.4052" said: > > @"Atticus.7194" said: > > Lemme ask you something, why would someone bring a spellbreaker now? What exactly are they good at? Damage sponges? Nope. Damage dealers? Nope. Boon removal? Nope. Boon application? Nope. High mobility? Not really. CC application? Not really again. We have no role anymore; we can't really remove boons, we can't really punish attacks, we're okay at point control but other classes are better. > > > > Would this have initially ruined the spec? Nope, it would have crippled it. But with years worth of other subsequent nerfs it very much killed it this time around. > > > > Ok dude, where are you getting that you dont do damage? what build are you running??? are you still playing defense dagger?? greatsword, axe, rampage all do insane damage. > > You dont have very much CC?? Bulls charge? shield bash? FULL COUNTER?? rampage?? > > You dont have high mobility?? You can get from spawn on eternal colliseum, halfway to far node with gs 3 and gs 5.. not to mention you have bulls charge and rampage (are you noticing a trend here?) And if that the only thing that SB brought was the FC's CC. All of those other things you mentioned are just as effective if not more effective on core warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyHaxor.4052 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > @"DonkeyHaxor.4052" said: > > > @"Atticus.7194" said: > > > Lemme ask you something, why would someone bring a spellbreaker now? What exactly are they good at? Damage sponges? Nope. Damage dealers? Nope. Boon removal? Nope. Boon application? Nope. High mobility? Not really. CC application? Not really again. We have no role anymore; we can't really remove boons, we can't really punish attacks, we're okay at point control but other classes are better. > > > > > > Would this have initially ruined the spec? Nope, it would have crippled it. But with years worth of other subsequent nerfs it very much killed it this time around. > > > > > > > Ok dude, where are you getting that you dont do damage? what build are you running??? are you still playing defense dagger?? greatsword, axe, rampage all do insane damage. > > > > You dont have very much CC?? Bulls charge? shield bash? FULL COUNTER?? rampage?? > > > > You dont have high mobility?? You can get from spawn on eternal colliseum, halfway to far node with gs 3 and gs 5.. not to mention you have bulls charge and rampage (are you noticing a trend here?) > > And if that the only thing that SB brought was the FC's CC. All of those other things you mentioned are just as effective if not more effective on core warrior. how are they "more" effective on core?? theyre the same exact skill on spellbreaker and on core.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Haired Savage.5430 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 > @"DonkeyHaxor.4052" said: > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said: > > > @"DonkeyHaxor.4052" said: > > > > @"Atticus.7194" said: > > > > Lemme ask you something, why would someone bring a spellbreaker now? What exactly are they good at? Damage sponges? Nope. Damage dealers? Nope. Boon removal? Nope. Boon application? Nope. High mobility? Not really. CC application? Not really again. We have no role anymore; we can't really remove boons, we can't really punish attacks, we're okay at point control but other classes are better. > > > > > > > > Would this have initially ruined the spec? Nope, it would have crippled it. But with years worth of other subsequent nerfs it very much killed it this time around. > > > > > > > > > > Ok dude, where are you getting that you dont do damage? what build are you running??? are you still playing defense dagger?? greatsword, axe, rampage all do insane damage. > > > > > > You dont have very much CC?? Bulls charge? shield bash? FULL COUNTER?? rampage?? > > > > > > You dont have high mobility?? You can get from spawn on eternal colliseum, halfway to far node with gs 3 and gs 5.. not to mention you have bulls charge and rampage (are you noticing a trend here?) > > > > And if that the only thing that SB brought was the FC's CC. All of those other things you mentioned are just as effective if not more effective on core warrior. > > how are they "more" effective on core?? theyre the same exact skill on spellbreaker and on core.. Well if you're running SB you're more than likely running: SB trait line Discipline trait line And then you're either running strength or you're running defense. So you're either giving up: Peak performance, forceful GS, and mmr/bp Or you're giving up Shield master/dogged March, adrenal health, auto defy pain, last stand/ci/rr Depending on your choices you might be giving up the strength trait line for the defense trait line, so yes the listed skills would be less effective on a SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithranArkanere.8957 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Remember when people had to choose between offense and defense? Ruminating should be left for the cows. When people try to have the cake and eat it too, the result will not be kind to the eye. The only way I could see full counter getting all its power back would be by not being able to get it all back at the same time. Have its base full powers reduced, and bring them back separately into different traits. Some even improved a bit. * Base full counter would no longer cause daze, would no longer be unblockable, would no longer be able to crit, and the damage reduction would be reduced to 50%. Then each of the 3 major grandmaster traits would return one of those only: * Enchantment Collapse would bring back the daze, increased to 2s, and it would also multiply the effects of Dispelling Force. * Revenge Counter would return the 100% damage reduction, and give a bit of barrier by converting damage received during its duration to barrier. * Magebane tether would return the ability to crit and unblockable property, and make it always critical as a bonus. Specializations should specialize more. Look at daredevil. Imagine if they could bring all the powers of their 3 dodge replacements at the same time. I'd be insane. You have to choose one of them. Elite Specializations should make people choose more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Haired Savage.5430 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said: > Remember when people had to choose between offense and defense? > Ruminating should be left for the cows. When people try to have the cake and eat it too, the result will not be kind to the eye. > > The only way I could see full counter getting all its power back would be by not being able to get it all back at the same time. > Have its base full powers reduced, and bring them back separately into different traits. Some even improved a bit. > * Base full counter would no longer cause daze, would no longer be unblockable, would no longer be able to crit, and the damage reduction would be reduced to 50%. > Then each of the 3 major grandmaster traits would return one of those only: > * Enchantment Collapse would bring back the daze, increased to 2s, and it would also multiply the effects of Dispelling Force. > * Revenge Counter would return the 100% damage reduction, and give a bit of barrier by converting damage received during its duration to barrier. > * Magebane tether would return the ability to crit and unblockable property, and make it always critical as a bonus. > > Specializations should specialize more. Look at daredevil. Imagine if they could bring all the powers of their 3 dodge replacements at the same time. I'd be insane. You have to choose one of them. > Elite Specializations should make people choose more. See the problem with this is that it would make sense, Anet doesn't like to do that. Something like this would have been nice out of the box and made sense at the beginning of PoF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zionophir.6845 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 > @"Eme.2018" said: > @"gimo.3281" > > 0.5 equals to 0.75 * 2/3 (in other words if 0.75 is the 100% then 66.6% is 0.5) > pve damage = 20 75% of 20 = .75 of 20 = 15 to 25% of 20 = .25 of 20 = 5 what's the difference? 10. 10 is 50% of 20. yo, in what 'effin trash bin do you pull out your kind of "math"? you don't even need a fucking high school diploma to pull this off.. anyway, so i think what happened to FC from pre-Dec 11 to patch is this: They equalized the PvE+PvP/WvW damage prepatch, equated it to 75% PvE damage and reduced it by 50% PvE damage... it doesn't matter how low it became.. the purpose of it is for you to suspect sh@t software users in PvP/WvW by noticing the mega-inconsistency between the highest average damage you do in PvE vs the damage you do in PvP/WvW. or maybe there is a layer on your client that is reducing your actual damage, when you are pvp/wvwing... so yea, i think a.net is playing with your head and make you wear a tin foil hat, i think. they are headquartered in bellevue anyway.. (google: bellevue new york city) lel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus.7194 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 > @"DonkeyHaxor.4052" said: > > @"Atticus.7194" said: > > Lemme ask you something, why would someone bring a spellbreaker now? What exactly are they good at? Damage sponges? Nope. Damage dealers? Nope. Boon removal? Nope. Boon application? Nope. High mobility? Not really. CC application? Not really again. We have no role anymore; we can't really remove boons, we can't really punish attacks, we're okay at point control but other classes are better. > > > > Would this have initially ruined the spec? Nope, it would have crippled it. But with years worth of other subsequent nerfs it very much killed it this time around. > > > > Ok dude, where are you getting that you dont do damage? what build are you running??? are you still playing defense dagger?? greatsword, axe, rampage all do insane damage. > > You dont have very much CC?? Bulls charge? shield bash? FULL COUNTER?? rampage?? > > You dont have high mobility?? You can get from spawn on eternal colliseum, halfway to far node with gs 3 and gs 5.. not to mention you have bulls charge and rampage (are you noticing a trend here?) We don't do much damage, I'm running the bone standard pre-nerf meta of d/sh + gs defense/discipline/spellbreaker like everyone else. If you think "greatsword, axe, rampage all do insane damage" then you have apparently never encountered a holosmith, deadeye, mirage, DD, chrono, core guard, reaper or soulbeast before because all of them now have consistently higher spike damage and baseline damage. Also Rampage? Come on, most people only use that for the damage mitigation and the CC abilities not because of the "insane damage". Oh and CC? Yea we do have okay CC but it all has a severe caveat to it, we need to be in very close, it has high cooldowns, large tells and is all mitigated by stability of which there is a LOT of in PvP and WvW. Your next point is just silly, firstly we can't get anywhere near that far on WW and Rush, plus no one is going to waste a 30 sec CD and a 180 sec CD to try and rush the center node from spawn (even then we wouldn't make it). Honestly the most I read your posts the more sure I am you don't play spellbreaker from the absurd overblown claims you make, pretty sure you're just someone who had a difficult time playing against them and has blown their effectiveness way out of proportion to reality. You conviently ignore all the actual limitations to our skills that spellbreakers know and struggle with in your need to claim we're some sort of walking gods and it's just... bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman.5829 Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 > @"zionophir.6845" said: > > @"Eme.2018" said: > > @"gimo.3281" > > > > 0.5 equals to 0.75 * 2/3 (in other words if 0.75 is the 100% then 66.6% is 0.5) > > > > pve damage = 20 > > 75% of 20 = .75 of 20 = 15 > to > 25% of 20 = .25 of 20 = 5 > > what's the difference? 10. > > 10 is 50% of 20. > > yo, in what 'effin trash bin do you pull out your kind of "math"? you don't even need a kitten high school diploma to pull this off.. I am in awe that people cannot do simple math. Please, the following message is for future "wannabe mathematicians" Please, please, please refrain from posting if you have no clue on how to calculate **percentage lost.** what is the percentage damage lost of going from 15 to 5? (5/15 - 1) * 100 = - 66.66% Jesus Christ, it is enough with the mathematician wannabes if you don't know what you are talking about please do not post! In hopes that everyone will understand, I am going to attempt a final example that even a tortoise can understand. Suppose you have 75 cents (0.75 dollars) in your pocket. But your pocket has a hole and later when you check you only have 25 cents (0.25 dollars). How much money did you lose? obviously 50 cents (0.5 dollars) What percentage of money did you lose? Since you start with 75 cents and you end up with 25 cents, the percentage of money lost is (25/75 - 1) * 100 = -66.66% That means you lost 66.66% of your money! and to corroborate that the math is right: (75 cents)(-0.6666) = -50 cents So please, do not let me down, i have higher hopes for humanity. Stop with the "mathematician wannabe." Throughout high school I heard many "why do i need to study math if I am never going to use it in real life..." Well now you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 > @"Hitman.5829" said: > > @"zionophir.6845" said: > > > @"Eme.2018" said: > > > @"gimo.3281" > > > > > > 0.5 equals to 0.75 * 2/3 (in other words if 0.75 is the 100% then 66.6% is 0.5) > > > > > > > pve damage = 20 > > > > 75% of 20 = .75 of 20 = 15 > > to > > 25% of 20 = .25 of 20 = 5 > > > > what's the difference? 10. > > > > 10 is 50% of 20. > > > > yo, in what 'effin trash bin do you pull out your kind of "math"? you don't even need a kitten high school diploma to pull this off.. > > I am in awe that people cannot do simple math. Please, the following message is for future "wannabe mathematicians" > > Please, please, please refrain from posting if you have no clue on how to calculate **percentage lost.** > > what is the percentage damage lost of going from 15 to 5? > (5/15 - 1) * 100 = - 66.66% > > Jesus Christ, it is enough with the mathematician wannabes if you don't know what you are talking about please do not post! > > In hopes that everyone will understand, I am going to attempt a final example that even a tortoise can understand. > Suppose you have 75 cents (0.75 dollars) in your pocket. But your pocket has a hole and later when you check you only have 25 cents (0.25 dollars). > How much money did you lose? obviously 50 cents (0.5 dollars) > What percentage of money did you lose? > Since you start with 75 cents and you end up with 25 cents, the percentage of money lost is (25/75 - 1) * 100 = -66.66% > > That means you lost 66.66% of your money! > and to corroborate that the math is right: > (75 cents)(-0.6666) = -50 cents > > So please, do not let me down, i have higher hopes for humanity. > Stop with the "mathematician wannabe." > Throughout high school I heard many "why do i need to study math if I am never going to use it in real life..." > Well now you know... This is hilarious, ppl not understanding that you cant just substact percentages from each other to get the right value. Holy cow i cant even. And ppl not realizing that warrior deals way less dmg than they think they are doing, just because they assume a perfect warrior world, which will never happen, if the opponent has any braincells left. How can anyone be tgis ignorant. Warrior is bottom tier when it comes to warrior, why is anyone still complaining, i. Dont get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyHaxor.4052 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 > @"Atticus.7194" said: > > @"DonkeyHaxor.4052" said: > > > @"Atticus.7194" said: > > > Lemme ask you something, why would someone bring a spellbreaker now? What exactly are they good at? Damage sponges? Nope. Damage dealers? Nope. Boon removal? Nope. Boon application? Nope. High mobility? Not really. CC application? Not really again. We have no role anymore; we can't really remove boons, we can't really punish attacks, we're okay at point control but other classes are better. > > > > > > Would this have initially ruined the spec? Nope, it would have crippled it. But with years worth of other subsequent nerfs it very much killed it this time around. > > > > > > > Ok dude, where are you getting that you dont do damage? what build are you running??? are you still playing defense dagger?? greatsword, axe, rampage all do insane damage. > > > > You dont have very much CC?? Bulls charge? shield bash? FULL COUNTER?? rampage?? > > > > You dont have high mobility?? You can get from spawn on eternal colliseum, halfway to far node with gs 3 and gs 5.. not to mention you have bulls charge and rampage (are you noticing a trend here?) > > We don't do much damage, I'm running the bone standard pre-nerf meta of d/sh + gs defense/discipline/spellbreaker like everyone else. > > If you think "greatsword, axe, rampage all do insane damage" then you have apparently never encountered a holosmith, deadeye, mirage, DD, chrono, core guard, reaper or soulbeast before because all of them now have consistently higher spike damage and baseline damage. Also Rampage? Come on, most people only use that for the damage mitigation and the CC abilities not because of the "insane damage". > > Oh and CC? Yea we do have okay CC but it all has a severe caveat to it, we need to be in very close, it has high cooldowns, large tells and is all mitigated by stability of which there is a LOT of in PvP and WvW. > > Your next point is just silly, firstly we can't get anywhere near that far on WW and Rush, plus no one is going to waste a 30 sec CD and a 180 sec CD to try and rush the center node from spawn (even then we wouldn't make it). > > Honestly the most I read your posts the more sure I am you don't play spellbreaker from the absurd overblown claims you make, pretty sure you're just someone who had a difficult time playing against them and has blown their effectiveness way out of proportion to reality. You conviently ignore all the actual limitations to our skills that spellbreakers know and struggle with in your need to claim we're some sort of walking gods and it's just... bad. > > Dude, I play spellbreaker. I've played 150 games on spellbreaker this season, i'm plat 3. I know rank doesnt matter but just to tell you i've been playing it. You're running a build that is 2-3 meta's old dude, nobody has ran defense for 2 balance patches. Why complain about a class being bad when you're running a bad build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eme.2018 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 > @"zionophir.6845" said: > pve damage = 20 > > 75% of 20 = .75 of 20 = 15 > to > 25% of 20 = .25 of 20 = 5 > > what's the difference? 10. > > 10 is 50% of 20. **BUT** 10 is also the 66% of 15, which is what actually matters and what describes the actual difference you will experience. If FC was hitting for 1000 damage it will now hit for 333 which is a 66.6% nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zionophir.6845 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 > @"Hitman.5829" said: > > @"zionophir.6845" said: > > > @"Eme.2018" said: > > > @"gimo.3281" > > > > > > 0.5 equals to 0.75 * 2/3 (in other words if 0.75 is the 100% then 66.6% is 0.5) > > > > > > > pve damage = 20 > > > > 75% of 20 = .75 of 20 = 15 > > to > > 25% of 20 = .25 of 20 = 5 > > > > what's the difference? 10. > > > > 10 is 50% of 20. > > > > yo, in what 'effin trash bin do you pull out your kind of "math"? you don't even need a kitten high school diploma to pull this off.. > > I am in awe that people cannot do simple math. Please, the following message is for future "wannabe mathematicians" > > Please, please, please refrain from posting if you have no clue on how to calculate **percentage lost.** > > what is the percentage damage lost of going from 15 to 5? > (5/15 - 1) * 100 = - 66.66% > > Jesus Christ, it is enough with the mathematician wannabes if you don't know what you are talking about please do not post! > > In hopes that everyone will understand, I am going to attempt a final example that even a tortoise can understand. > Suppose you have 75 cents (0.75 dollars) in your pocket. But your pocket has a hole and later when you check you only have 25 cents (0.25 dollars). > How much money did you lose? obviously 50 cents (0.5 dollars) > What percentage of money did you lose? > Since you start with 75 cents and you end up with 25 cents, the percentage of money lost is (25/75 - 1) * 100 = -66.66% > > That means you lost 66.66% of your money! > and to corroborate that the math is right: > (75 cents)(-0.6666) = -50 cents > > So please, do not let me down, i have higher hopes for humanity. > Stop with the "mathematician wannabe." > Throughout high school I heard many "why do i need to study math if I am never going to use it in real life..." > Well now you know... going from 75% to 25%, you know, get the actual numbers. get the difference. and that difference is what percentage of 100% pve damage? coz if your base is 15 which is 75% damage, then the process is borked... either suck that, or go bork bork again... and can you please state what kind of math are you using? is it localized? is it like australian math? or canadian math? or some usa math? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zionophir.6845 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 > @"Eme.2018" said: > > @"zionophir.6845" said: > > pve damage = 20 > > > > 75% of 20 = .75 of 20 = 15 > > to > > 25% of 20 = .25 of 20 = 5 > > > > what's the difference? 10. > > > > 10 is 50% of 20. > **BUT** > 10 is also the 66% of 15, which is what actually matters and what describes the actual difference you will experience. > > If FC was hitting for 1000 damage it will now hit for 333 which is a 66.6% nerf. > > > > > you don't start with 15. you start with 20. 20 is 100% pve damage... if you want to get the difference of 75% of pve and 25% of pve, get the numbers, subtract and the difference is what percent of the 100% pve damage... and what have i been saying.. "From 75% of pve damage, they reduced it by 50% OF PVE DAMAGE." if pve damage is 20.. "From 15 minus 10 equals 5"... and 5 is 25% of pve damage, which is 20.. and what is 10? 50% OF PVE DAMAGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zionophir.6845 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 key here is for you to EXACTLY KNOW THE EFFIN HIGHEST AVERAGE PVE DAMAGE USING FC BEFORE 12.11 .. OR DID YOU REMEMBER WHEN YOU HIT THE HARDEST PVE MOB WITH FC PRIOR TO 12/11 .. AND THAT SHOULD BE THE EFFIN 100% PVE DAMAGE OF FC.. PREPATCH... THEN DO THE 75:25 RULE... POST PATCH... AND SINCE FC IS NOW 25% PVE DAMAGE, IT SHOULD FOLLOW THAT THE DAMAGE THAT YOU DO OUTSIDE PVE, IS ALSO ~25% PVE DAMAGE.. NOW GOTO PVP/WVW. DO FC DAMAGE. SOMETHING FISHY? BORKBORK DETECTED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eme.2018 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 > @"zionophir.6845" said: > > you don't start with 15. you start with 20. 20 is 100% pve damage... if you want to get the difference of 75% of pve and 25% of pve, get the numbers, subtract and the difference is what percent of the 100% pve damage... This is exactly my point. From a PvP perspective it makes no sense include PvE damage in the relation and it is actually pretty misleading. All you need is the relations between pre and post patch damage. So to put is clearly, there are two ways of calculating the post patch damage: You can either say it is equal to **33% of the previous PvP damage** or you can say it is equal to **25% of the PvE damage**. From a purely PvP perspective it makes no sense to use the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 > @"zionophir.6845" said: > key here is for you to EXACTLY KNOW THE EFFIN HIGHEST AVERAGE PVE DAMAGE USING FC BEFORE 12.11 .. OR DID YOU REMEMBER WHEN YOU HIT THE HARDEST PVE MOB WITH FC PRIOR TO 12/11 .. AND THAT SHOULD BE THE EFFIN 100% PVE DAMAGE OF FC.. PREPATCH... > > THEN DO THE 75:25 RULE... POST PATCH... > > AND SINCE FC IS NOW 25% PVE DAMAGE, IT SHOULD FOLLOW THAT THE DAMAGE THAT YOU DO OUTSIDE PVE, IS ALSO ~25% PVE DAMAGE.. > > NOW GOTO PVP/WVW. DO FC DAMAGE. SOMETHING FISHY? BORKBORK DETECTED. might be a bit offtopic, but whats up with all that "borking" going on in each and every of your posts, its rly irritating, even quite annoying tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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